64 Comments - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 10:51 am: We all know whose interests the Tribune represents. God forbid that legislators should eventually pass a constitutional amendment and enact a progressive income tax, wherein the income of Illinois’ wealthier residents will be slightly more compromised but for the salvation of many jobs and vital public services. My AFSCME colleagues and I are among the power elites in the state legislature! Wow, and all this time we’ve been lobbying for revenue and losing! We get one victory with the court ruling and we’re among the power elites! - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 10:55 am: Sad to say, I think there’s a school in print journalism that believes aping the know-nothing yammerers on cable TV will bring back their lost readership. Times have changed. Compare and contrast: Mike Royko and John Kass. Even old WGN radio is trying to get “edgy.” I’m thankful we still have Orion Samuelson calling farmers in their combines during harvest season to expedite that Saturday afternoon hammock session. - Brennan - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:04 am: Two questions. Did state legislators meet with AFSCME negotiators about concessions that could avoid layoffs? If so, what happened? - Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:05 am: And when I think of quality business models the first two examples that leap to mind are the bankrupt Tribune Company and the Peoria paper that’s still coping with its financials in the wake of its far-too generous employee ownership that made a lot of former PJSers rich but ultimately forced the sale to Copley, which didn’t plan for an inheritance tax hit that forced the sale to Gatehouse … Just look at what layoffs have done to the quality of these two publications. - Fan of the Game - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:09 am: For good or ill, a contract is a contract, and the union acted appropriately to protect it. However, the governor and the GA have a responsibility to run the state in a fiscally sound fashion. Sometimes the two will clash, and resolving those conflicts is a process of the CBA. I don’t know what the Tribune would like the governor to do. He is legally obligated to bargain the impact of the layoffs. - L.S. - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:09 am: AFSCME runs the state now? I thought Kass told me that DeLeo runs the state. Now I’m confused, but hahaha that (D-Howyadoin) thing always gets me. The Trib is watching it’s influence sink at the same pace as it’s revenues. Newspapers in their traditional form no longer have the voice they once did so they are compensating for their loss by shouting louder and louder. How many legislators will face U of I scholarships as a campaign issue? None. In their defense, it’s tough to get the facts right when you laid off all your actual journalists. But this is just a nonsense editorial. At least we have Rich to point out the massive flaws. They should be required to run his corrections. - plutocrat03 - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:12 am: If AFSCME had submitted proposal honestly saving millions of dollars, no one would have ignored them. Politicians have bought off unions for decades with taxpayers money. There simply is no more cash to give away. - Macbeth - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:17 am: A great article in the Illinois Times takes a stab a painting some of the more significant implications of state layoffs. It’s easy to claim — as many posters do here — about the “Blago hacks” and the fact that state workers in general are this or that — but implications of widespread and mis-managed layoffs are far worse than the layoffs themselves — and often highlight the issues that so many of us forget when we’re clamoring about “getting rid of the workers.” Here’s the link. Rich may delete this post because of this link, but it’s in Google news. I seldom see articles like this, so I think it’s an interesting counterpoint to some of the posts here. http://www.illinoistimes.com/Springfield/article-6422-springfields-shrinking-state-workforce.html - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:18 am: Brennan “Did state legislators meet with AFSCME negotiators about concessions that could avoid layoffs”?– Not sure what you mean by this statement. If you meant “did all legislators meet with AFSCME members when members tried to ‘talk’ in their offices”, no, some dodged , but none (legislator nor member) had power to ‘negotiate’. Or did you mean when CMS ect meet to negotiate with the local presidents which were representing the members? If you meant this one, there was no assurence from the state lay offs would be avoided. - Query - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:20 am: It is my recollection that the right to unionize state workers was recognized by Gov. Walker, but that this was seen as voluntary, not mandatory. If this is the case, could the Governor withdraw it’s recognition of AFSCME (and presumably other unions) like Indiana Givernor Walker did in 2005? - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:22 am: plutocrat03 “If AFSCME had submitted proposal honestly saving millions of dollars, no one would have ignored them”– Are you sure on this one? You heard Quinn himself state the union made suggestions and ‘they’ would take them into consideration or something similar (not word for word) - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:23 am: The Tribune has at least one editorial member who has an initial for his first name, e.g., P. John Doe. How many of us have names like that? God forbid that someone earning in the low-mid five-figures per year should win a court victory to preserve his/her job or should have any collective political power. Why are some people so upset that a large group of wage earners who are a paycheck or two away from economic disaster have collective protection? I hope that more people who are in the same economic situation or income bracket are cheering us on–that at least some kindred souls are winning. - Macbeth - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:28 am: – Why are some people so upset that a large group of wage earners who are a paycheck or two away from economic disaster have collective protection? – I assume the answer to this has to do with the anger over the current recession, the frustraton of non-union workers who have no protection, and a changing sense of what unionization means to the country. Remember, most folks despise unions or think they despise unions — despite the fact that unions were responsible for creating an American middle-class. Maybe these times are over and it’s everything goes. Maybe the state would be better served by Pullman-style servitude. We know how well that went. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:30 am: I’m trying to recall Quinn’s press conference in mid-July of this year during the evening he signed the new budget. I do not recall him saying that he would look for every cost-cutting measure that will prevent as many layoffs as possible. He seemed hell-bent on doing the layoffs. I don’t think that Quinn made a big public stand in support of cost-cutting measures as a way to mitigate layoffs. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:32 am: ===I don’t think that Quinn made a big public stand in support of cost-cutting measures as a way to mitigate layoffs.=== Quinn has said repeatedly that he would lay off workers even with a tax hike. He started saying this in his budget address, and kept right on saying it throughout the session. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:34 am: ===If AFSCME had submitted proposal honestly saving millions of dollars, no one would have ignored them.=== You’re wrong because it happened. Try not to let your extreme ideology get in the way of facts. Thanks. - rick - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:35 am: Way to go, Rich. Keep calling out the Tribsters. Maybe I need to let it go, but I still can’t forgive the Trib Editorial Board for their conduct during the ‘98 guv’s race. Their attacks on Poshard where strangely over the top and they kept giving op/ed space to columnist and letter writers who claimed to be Democrats opposed to Poshard. And speaking of hyperbole, remember when they went on their crusade against Mike Sheehan over a supposed mass beating of inmates at the county jail a few years ago? When the inmates’ lawsuit went to court the jury threw out all charges after less than 2 hours. Of course, the editorial writers were silent after the jury’s decision. - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:43 am: To refresh some of what has been stated over the last several months, Rich has vids on his You Tube Capt Fax, at least they were still there the other day when I went back to see some of this summer’s clips. Speaking of that, do we get more instant video during the veto session? - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:44 am: At the time of his post-budget-signing press conference, there obviously was no tax hike. Quinn was talking about layoffs, but again, I don’t recall him saying that he would mitigate the layoff process as much as possible by looking toward cost-cutting measures. I know that AFSCME proposed cost-cutting measures during negotiations in early September. At least publically, it doesn’t seem that Quinn is very interested in considering these cost-cutting measures, although his spokesperson said something like cost-cutting solutions will be considered when the appeal filing was announced a few days ago. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:45 am: ===do we get more instant video during the veto session? === yes. - Anonymous45 - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:51 am: I have to say that I blame the legislators for not having the guts to pass a tax increase before adjourning (esp House members, I don’t care if Madigan was not going to “allow” a vote) and dumping this stinking mess on Quinn’s lap saying, ok now start slashing the budget/staff to your exclusive detriment…legislative inaction forced the actions taken by Quinn… I am a prgressive Dem, non-union member, and think that AFSCME leadership and members are cutiing off their noses to spite their faces- the layoffs will come whether or not they cooperate/stall the inevitable in the legal system…sit down and negotiate layoff and rehire scenarios with the Gov and his staffers… - VanillaMan - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:53 am: I do not see an honest attempt by this governor to do what he can right now to cut his own budget, his own staff, his own offices, or take any measures that demonstrate that he considers the situation as serious as he publically claims by taking action to personnel for which his office is personally responsible. Quinn looks like a guy who wants everyone else to take a hit so that he can continue doing what he wishes. Quinn is not demonstrating any sacrifices. There are no demonstrations of sacrifices coming from any of the statewide elected officials in Illinois. Instead we see fingerpointing and claims of doom if nothing is done. There is no leadership here. The question the PJ-S almost got right is, “Who is running Illinois?” Because right now, no one is running Illinois. No one is steering. For them to claim that AFSCME is doing so is ridiculous. What has been happening over the past few years has been that Illinois is being ran by the public servants in bureaus and agencies, in commissions and in departments - you know, the very people Quinn looks at when he considers cutting costs! So what is going on here? The State is on auto-pilot since 2005, and now Quinn wants to kill the auto-pilot? What? We’re not experiencing enough of a leadership vaccum, we now have to expand it to exclude the people forced to run this bankrupted state? This government is broken! There is no leadership! No one wants to lead it! They want to be win the next election, and hope that someone somewhere will do something in time for the next election. Our state leadership has been on the hunt for a sacrificial lamb or lambs so that they can continue to live royally in their little political fiefdoms. Folks, if we don’t throw these people out of office, we will not solve these problems! - Bill - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:56 am: So what did we expect from the Scabune, support for people who work for a living? The state would be much better off if the union was running it; instead we get Moe, Larry and, Curly. - BMAN - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:58 am: Who runs the state? It’s AFSCME or really it’s members. It is the governor and the legislators who have done damn little to make this a place to be proud of. - dupage dan - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:59 am: I am not aware of the specific cost cutting measures that AFSCME proposed recently but it seems it is easier to blast the union rather than consider the suggestions. One more nail in the PQ election coffin IMO. - dupage dan - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:06 pm: BMAN, I am a member of AFSCME and have little to say about it’s strategies and tactics - whether I agree with them or not. I can assure you I do not run the state. Just a guy with a phone in a room with artificial lights. It is the voters who run this state. The fact that they abdicate their responsibilities by voting for known failures like RodB or players like Ryan while ignoring decent more ethical candidates like Netsch and Topinka (Poshard?) shows their incompetence. Who elects the gov and legislators, BMAN? AFSCME? - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:18 pm: anonymous45 –”sit down and negotiate layoff “– Uh, that’s part of the problem now, anonymous45. Part of what is holding layoffs off temporairly is waiting for the proper negotiations. — And it was Quinn’s spokewoman, Ashley Cross, in the SJ-R on Sept 3rd that acknowledged AFSCME’s proposals of cost saving measures presented and stated ‘will consider those cost-saving measures’ but is forced to go ahead w/layoff in the meantime’ as reported to what had been stated by Bayer. - Bill - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:24 pm: Quinn is pandering to the public by talking about layoffs of state employees and reducing their pensions.He doesn’t want to negotiate what is best for the state. He’s just looking for another press opportunity. He’ll probably never get around to following through on any of this bull. - Irish - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:30 pm: Thank you Rich!!!! I am tired of newspapers in this state making false statements and then not being held accountable anywhere except on this blog. Printed news bears some of the blame in this budget fiasco we are all facing. If they are unwilling to print the facts and are allowed to put their opinions out there as facts then the general public will never know where the true responsibility lies for this budget mess. The general public takes printed information as facts and responds accordingly. Few bother to dig deeper to get at the truth. I wish you were syndicated in all papers across the state. - Anonymous45 - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:31 pm: Cindy Lou- seeing that the State is at least 9 billion dollars in the red, negotiations should have started weeks ago and the union brass said they would not renegotiate the contract-one of us is misinformed, and I don’t think it’s me- I have many friends that have been out of work for over a year and would gladly accept a union job with furlough days in the worst economy since the great depression… here’s phrase you can get familiar with…”shared sacrifice”…even the legislators are taking 12 furlough days…and thet’re not widely known for their altrustic behavior… - Fed Up - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:31 pm: The whole issue about the layoffs & AFSCME is really laughable. This editorial & a lot of the other discourse seems to imply that AFSCME is blocking the solution to the state’s economic woes. In fact, even if AFSCME gave the governor everything he wanted, the state would still be in a mess. The layoff numbers Quinn came up with were just random. They were not part of a comprehensive plan to fix the problem. Even if the layoffs & other cuts the governor proposed went throught, the state would still be billions in the hole. The real parties that should be blamed are the legislators that for years approved bloated budgets with new programs, failing to address the funding needs for existing state services & obligations. The employee pensions were ignored for years. Merit compensation employees went years without raises. Service providers & vendors were not paid for extensive time periods, some of whom stopped shipping goods to the state. The office I work at ran out of toner cartridges, computer paper, pens & other office supplies because of nonpayment. To blame the employee unions for this mess would be short sided. For those that jump on the bandwagon trashing the pensions ignore this fact: the employees currently pay for their pensions and did in the past. About 20 years ago, the state came up with a plan to pay for the employee pensions in lieu of a pay raise. This saved the state money in regards to unemployment compensation, payroll tax, life insurance and other costs that were directly tied to employee salaries. The problem is that the state never lived up to its obligation to cover the costs they agreed to. It was as if they had agreed to a pay raise for all employees & then never gave it. The mess the state is in is soley the fault of the elected officals. AFSCME & other employee unions are easy scapegoats not the real problem. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:32 pm: Yes, I do recall now that Quinn’s spokesperson said that cost-cutting measures will be considered after the AFSCME negotiations on 09/03/09. Again (sorry to reiterate), Ms. Cross (spokesperson) said the same thing after announcing that AFSCME’s court victory will be appealed. I had the “bends” from Quinn impassionately supporting state/nonprofit workers during a rally in the Capitol on 06/23/09 and then seemingly giving up on us after the budget was signed. How serious has he been in considering cost-cutting measures? - Macbeth - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:42 pm: This is sorta like the American Airlines CEO (or TWA?) who once said that the airlines would be in much better shape if it weren’t for the pilots. The layoff talk *is* political pandering. It’s pandering directly to the anti-union folks who think that the state would be much better off without state workers. Sure, a couple here and there — but the thousands that are currently employed? They’re useless. After all. we all know that whatever happens with state workers *we* are not impacted. I mean, okay, there’s gotta be a couple dudes in the driver’s license office, but that’s it. And maybe some staff at the tourist attractions. But that’s what — five total workers tops? That’s all we need. What’s most galling to me is the immorality of the debate. And it really is immoral. The state support system depends on a strong, motivated workforce. I don’t know what happened to Indiana when AFSCME was shut out, but I can only imagine the impact of that sort of system-wide nullification in Illinois. Blagojevich led the way as the champion of demonization of the state worker — and I know that many agencies are only now getting back on track. Take away a strong, political collective voice — and replace it with nothing — and you’ll surely see a desperate and drastic slide in the quality of service provided by the state work force. The Blagojevich wounds for many agencies were quite severe — especially when it came to outsourcing to big consultants for work that was previously done — and done much more effectively — by the dudes and dudettes that sat at the small desks under artificial lighting. - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:46 pm: anonymous45–”seeing that the State is at least 9 billion dollars in the red, negotiations should have started weeks ago and the union brass said they would not renegotiate the contract-one of us is misinformed, and I don’t think it’s me-”– Yes, it does seem to be you who is not understanding this. Contract negotiations as to were we willing to re-open is very different than impact bargaining on layoffs ect. Sit downs with the union , and it was with the local presidents, was on the 3rd. It was on concessions and re-opening of the contract. Lay-offs and the manner and methods are a completely different area and set of negotiations. Read the contract. Look at supplementals. Lots more to ‘impact’ than whether the local presidents agree to concessions. And now, if you’d like to talk ’shared’ you will remember that some of AFSCME members were laid off a year ago. A few lost their homes, had to pull their children out of school (think DNR/HPA). We can go round and round here… - Irish - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:47 pm: My belief on all of the layoff talk is that it will never happen and was never intended to happen. It might have already happened to a few but the major layoffs Quinn was talking about I don’t believe will happen. Just look at who Quinn chose to suffer the layoffs. Mainly those serving the most needy and the Corrections Department. I think he knew that Corrections would be able to block his move and fully intended not to pursue it. It was just another case of scare tactics and doom and gloom. The problem with such tactics is that they dilute the issue that something really needs to be done. Since any affected employee has to have a thirty day notice of their possible last day and since it takes at least a good month and a half to work through all of the bumping issues. These folks won’t be actually laid off until after the first of the year. In past situations like this it has been said that if the layoffs do not occur before the end of December there are no real savings in that year’s budget. Since it sounds as though there might be more discussion on the income tax increase in the Spring Quinn faces losing votes from Union folks, who he has been courting, for no real savings. With the present situation he makes the union and it’s members look bad, himself look like he is trying, but he doesn’t do real damage to the union members so they might still vote for him. It’s a total win -win for him to keep the staus quo. - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:48 pm: oh, and I should add, anonymous45, ask who got up and left the table. - Rambler - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:50 pm: From an informational standpoint: “AFSCME has submitted budget-cutting ideas worth millions of dollars.” This isn’t saying much. Is it $2 million or $990 million? What exactly are these ideas and what percentage of the total AFSCME budget do they represent? From a political standpoint: “[E]very tax hike proposal - including the House proposal, the larger Senate Democratic plan and the governor’s various ideas - required budget cuts. Nobody ever put forth serious legislation which would’ve fully funded government at last fiscal year’s original appropriations levels.” The Dems lack credibility. People doubt that significant budget cuts will come after taxes are raised. When you see how Quinn has flip-flopped, this skepticism is easy to understand. Creative accounting can do wonders. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 12:59 pm: A tragicomic element to this mess is that staff will be cut at DHS while the DHS population receiving state-administered benefits is growing substantially. There is already severe understaffing and unmanageable caseload sizes. How can the state function if the imbalance between DHS workers and public-aid recipients grows even more? - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:11 pm: rambler–”This isn’t saying much. Is it $2 million or $990 million”– proposals suggested were over 100 million and included a variety of easy enough items ranging from prescription drug vendors to cutting overtime and revamping of group health insurance programs incorporating newer best practices ect. June’s overtime hours alone should indicate the state is paying far too much in overtime in areas of DOC and DHS - Ill_will - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:18 pm: Cindy Lou, I admire your patience with some of these posters. One more time: If every employee were to be laid off, the budget would still not be balanced. - Arthur Andersen - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:21 pm: What floors me about these editorials is not just the tenor, but the shaky grip of the facts these writers seem to have. Good Lord, the State could lay off every AFSCME covered worker in Illinois and only solve 15-20% of the deficit problem. It’s not like their pension costs are killing the budget either, despite the failure of the crack GUMBY staff Quinn kept around after Blago to sell a dime of the $3.4 billion pension junk bonds intended to cover this year’s contributions. - SouthernGirl - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:22 pm: LOL. Go get the Trib Rich! I remember my dad (he was a democratic precinct in the ’60s and ’70s) reading the Tribune editorial page, throwing it to the ground, and cursing as he stomped on it. You remind me of him! He also called it yellow journalism. And we stopped home delivery of the Tribune forever. I don’t remember what it was that made him so mad. Thanks Rich for bringing my dad back to me in a flash! - PalosParkBob - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:26 pm: This is all just smokescreen. Saving “millions” isn’t going to cut it when we have a multi-billion shortfall, and wasting all this time trying to violate a legitimate contract isn’t going to solve the problem. We don’t need a “bandaid” layoff from the Guv, we need a comprehensive plan to streamline delivery of state services and eliminate redundancy amongst the over 1700 programs administered by the state. We need a Governor who can come up with a comprehensive plan to reduce the annual $5,200 per recipient Medicaid cost to much closer to the $4,700 per person cost for private health care costs in Illinois, or the low as $2,700 per person people get from high quality HMOs here. We also need to return to the old 185% of poverty level Medicaid eligibility and end the 400% of LI level that Blago created, adding 700,000 to the Medicaid rolls, to expand his “dependency base”. We need a Governor with the “testicular virility” to come up with a detailed prioritization plan for state spending based on true “needs” instead of “wants”. Make Emil Jones JR justify the “need” for a $40 million for a new West Side campus of Chicago State (Boondoggle U) when bridges and roads desperately need repair and tuitin at state schools are skyrocketing. The only way to do this is zero based budgeting where every program has to prove its worth compared to every other program every year to receive funding from a fixed revenue base. We need a Governor who has the guts and brains to require “escape clauses” in all public union contracts in Illinois to limit increases in salaries and benefits to a fixed percentage of all new, unrestricted revenues for the body. If revenues go down, so do salaries and benefit contributions. It’s the only sane and reasonable way to protect the public from unfairly large and unsustainable contracts negotiated by bought and paid for political hacks. Finally, we need to see some character from a Governor to end the unfair pension system which hands out huge pensions at far too young of an age and end double, triple and quadruple dipping with a public salary and/or multiple public pensions after “retirement”. Quinn is just giving the state “cash cow” a haircut. What it really needs is major liposuction! - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:26 pm: Cindy Lou, Speaking of the Tribune, I wrote a letter to the editor that was published on 09/09/09, in which I mention the folly of laying off state workers to save money while paying workers more for overtime–and this is before layoffs! - Anonymous45 - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:35 pm: Cindy Lou: yada, yada, yada…I do not expect the budget to be balanced on the backs of state employees in unions, I do however expect them to give a little back in these tough econmic times…that is my point…enough said… - Rambler - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:36 pm: “proposals suggested were over 100 million and included a variety of easy enough items ranging from prescription drug vendors to cutting overtime and revamping of group health insurance programs incorporating newer best practices ect.” That’s pretty incomplete. Perhaps AFSCME has posted a complete list of its proposed cuts somewhere. - RJW - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 1:44 pm: I personally think that the Governor should declare a fiscal emergency and go to the courts and ask them to nullify all union contracts with the state. The judge could then approve/disapprove actions necessary involving employees such as eliminating raises, layoffs, etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I know that AFSCME didn’t cause the fiscal mess. But, that’s not a valid argument. You work for the state and all of us involved (I’m merit comp) have to take some bullets whether we like it or not. Mine was no raises plus 12 furlough days - plus I’ve heard that there may be suggestions of pay cuts for MC workers at some point in time. We should all try to get through this disaster as quickly as possible and work together to get competent leaders in office to make sure this never happens again. Remember, this didn’t just happen overnight. This has been building for many, many years. - Raymond Moley - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 2:09 pm: AFSCME’s proposed budget reform can be summed up with “Cut services, raise taxes and hire more staff.” Interestingly, DOC’s proposed layoff would have saved $30 million in overtime by moving some existing staff to under staffed facilities while laying off - Raymond Moley - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 2:12 pm: AFSCME’s proposed budget reform can be summed up with “Cut services, raise taxes and hire more staff.” Interestingly, DOC’s proposed layoff would have saved $30 million in overtime by moving some existing staff to under staffed facilities while laying off - Fed Up - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 2:15 pm: “I know that AFSCME didn’t cause the fiscal mess. But, that’s not a valid argument. You work for the state and all of us involved (I’m merit comp) have to take some bullets whether we like it or not.” RJW, you’re missing the entire argument. The people that should be leading on this are not. Instead of coming up with solutions to solve the problem, they fight along party lines. I have not heard 1 single legislator come up with a plan to solve the problem. Laying off state employees, forgoing raises and furloughs will not even put a dent in the defecit. The layoff numbers & other cuts the governor wants to do are arbitrary figures that someone came up with for some unknown reason. Let me repeat this again: They will not resolve the mess. Only when the people that we elected begin to act responsibly and come up with a real plan, and stick to that plan, will the state come out of this. This means that MJM & TC must stop the bickering & worrying about the next election & actually do something they have not done up to now: LEAD. By the way, I symphasize with your plight. As a former merit comp employee who recently won union representation, I understand your anger & frustration. I saw my standard of living dramatically decrease over the last few years. - Macbeth - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 2:18 pm: === I personally think that the Governor should declare a fiscal emergency and go to the courts and ask them to nullify all union contracts with the state. === How long and how much money will this take? You think this is a way to save money? Or is it a way for MC employees who couldn’t get unionized to stick it to their union staff? And you think this won’t manifest itself in even more strained relations between the overworked staff and their non-union management? - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 2:31 pm: RJW “You work for the state and all of us involved (I’m merit comp) have to take some bullets whether we like it or not. Mine was no raises plus 12 furlough days”– Mine was a layoff package in the mail last year. But if we are to use your reasoning, how about we do it statewide and include all who benefit from state services “to take some bullets whether we like it or not”. Sitting here debating over a few hundred million and the legal issues of a contract seems so petty when neither you nor I caused this, can solve it, or are seeing any meaningful solutions to get us as a state out of it. — Anonymous45–”I do however expect them to give a little back in these tough econmic times…that is my point…enough said…”– The state was not even interested in talking about possible volunteer furloughs. If they could not whip the contract wide open, they blew off a little anything….enough said…indeed. - Macbeth - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 3:07 pm: I recall taking furlough days under Ryan. This was pre-union for me, but I remember doing it because (a) the case was presented clearly, (b) I was given flexibility about when to take the furlough, and (c) I was asked nicely. None of these things are occurring at the moment. And mock me if you like, but (c) was actually quite important. - Anonymous45 - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 3:12 pm: CL: I guess you were in the room and can attest that that is what happened, right? Anyway,a re you and the leadership so self righteous that you can’t say that you’ll drop the lawsuit and submit to voluntary layoffs? Talk is cheap sister, actions speak way loud… Well? - Irish - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 3:20 pm: Anonymous 45 - I also know of people who are out of work and would take a state job including 12 furlough days in a minute, because it is better than what they have. What would their feeling be if they worked for the state for 35 years and now because of no leadership and GA members who are spending more time on getting re-elected than addressing issues they are asked to give up what they have workled for. They might feel differently. Also can you explain how a legislator takes furlough days? I hadn’t heard that the Legislators were doing this and I don’t see how they can. I am not being snarky here I really do not understand. Would they not attend sessions? I do not believe they are required to record actual hours worked so how would they do this? Pat Quinn has also said he will take furlough days but it will not affect his take home pay. By law he can’t be paid less than than the salary he took the job at. If I get the same deal put me down for 100 furlough days. And I understand shared sacrifice pretty much means that we should all do our fair share. So I am assuming your fair share would be what, paying an increase in taxes if that is passed? I am also a taxpayer so tell you what, I will do the same. Fair? you bet. But don’t come to me and say just because I am a state employee I have to also give back something else. That is where fair goes out the window. - Cindy Lou - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 3:38 pm: Anonymous45, you do realize, right, that bargaining is done in proper settings and in good faith? I don’t believe the contract allows for deals being made with people called ‘anonymous’ or thru internet blogs. - Anonymous45 - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 3:46 pm: You think what the union is doing is acting in good faith? To echo a politician of late: What planet do you mostly reside on? Good faith for who? Union members/brass or the budget of the State of IL? - Ghost - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 4:11 pm: AFSCME, AFSCME, every where, but yey the need for Overtime did rise; AFSCME, AFSCME, every where, but not enough workers remain. While Dems and the GOP do play dice for the souls of us all…. Quinn stands wearing the deceased tax increase bill about his neck, sealing the fate of us all. - Fed Up - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 4:13 pm: “Also can you explain how a legislator takes furlough days? I hadn’t heard that the Legislators were doing this and I don’t see how they can. I am not being snarky here I really do not understand. Would they not attend sessions?” Irish If they took furlough days and didn’t go to work, would anybody notice ? - Okay Then... - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 4:22 pm: RJW writes, “I personally think that the Governor should declare a fiscal emergency and go to the courts and ask them to nullify all union contracts with the state.” RJW, Quinn is still hiring people for non-essential(political) positions, so where’s the fiscal crisis? *wink-wink* And, how is Quinn spending the reserve money that Cullerton and his spokeswoman called him out on in August? Apparently not on spring semester MAP grants? I agree 100 percent with Kirk Dillard’s calling Quinn out on the Captial Bill too. - gallery walker - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 5:11 pm: If AFSCME truly ran the state, do you think that correctional officers would be making over $100 grand because of shirt staffing? Enough with the same old song and dance about the Dems being in the union’s pocket. One could make the same argument about the GOP being in the Chamber of Commerce’s pocket. So what! I applaud my union for protecting me (a c/o with over 20 years) and my brothers and sisters around the state from the mindless proposed cuts suggested by the Gov. It is ashamed when men and women that perform vital state services for Illinois and it’s citizens are vilifed by the press (and posters on this site) Go Get’em AFSCME!!! - Reformed - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 10:22 pm: Rich- You are right that AFSCME submitted a proposal that would have “saved” millions. But you deserve some of the same criticism that you are dishing beacuse you failed to thoroughly investigate AFSCME’s claim. AFSCME simply proposed that the state eliminate millions spent on ALL contracts. Those contracts are for services that must be provided. The state will pay a contractor to provide them or they will pay for a state employee to provide them. But the services must be provided. The majority are social service contracts for the elderly, disabled, metally ill, literacy, health care providers, etc. Don’t be so quick to jump on AFSCME’s band wagon. They are looking out for big labor and could care less about efficient government. They are just another hog at the trough who ain’t willing to give back even a crumb. - Obamas Puppy - Thursday, Oct 1, 09 @ 11:15 pm: Way to go Rich, the Trib is as desparate as cubs fans looking for a championship. Furlough days, lowest workforce per capita, pay cuts? I guess that is just business as usual at the Trib. - Shared Sacrifice - Friday, Oct 2, 09 @ 1:29 am: Fair enough. It’s a deal. As a state worker, I’ll take my 12 furlough days/4.5% pay cut, and we can raise the income tax from 3% to 7.5%. Shared sacrifice, right? It’s like High School Musical; ‘We’re All In This Together’, right? 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