29 Comments - George - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:17 am: There is no greater punishment than a midwestern winter. - CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:22 am: So now we can safely I.D. Commando FraidieKat Kirk and his posse, StateWideTom, OutsiderAndy, Mr Dreamey Schock et al., as pro Al Queda right. It must be true especially if the wing nuts are sizing it up that way. OMG this will bring on another round of panic especially from the Commando. And all this as the president plans to respond to the real commanders and deploy more troops to Afghan land. Now StateWideTom will want instant icings rather than a new committee. Fire,Aim, Ready Great Job Team. - dupage dan - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:31 am: As much as I have little sympathy for those who wish to do harm to the US, and would not want them to be spending their time as prisoners in club Gitmo, I still think bringing them to Thomson is a poor idea. That prison was built to house Illinois convicts and was supposed to help reduce crowding in a system that is aged and outdated. It should have been opened when it was completed and Illinois convicts should be there. The plan to sell Thomson to the feds is short sighted. More proof that those making the decisions in Springfield are not equipped to handle the task. - shore - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:37 am: Mayor Daley spent 3 years planning the Olympics, the Governor can spend 3 months studying the importation of some of the worst terrorists to Illinois. I still think it’s a very bad idea and an embarrassment that the only way the state can create jobs is to bring terrorists here. You know you are scraping the bottom of the barrel when you are bringing al-qaeda. On commissions, Quinn seems to have taken the obama administration playbook that it’s not enough to have a beuracracy of civil servants and a layer of political appointees on top of them to solve government issues, you need an extra level to get things done. If he doesn’t believe in the people he has to give him ideas he should find others. In the bush administration when we had legislation to get through congress or needed to solve problems we worked through the interagency, set up internal working groups and got it done. This is how the system is supposed to work. Ask Ira Magaziner how great comissions work. - Greg B. - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:40 am: What’s an ultra-conservative? - Carl Nyberg - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:50 am: My guess is that different detainees want different things. The ones that are legitimate bad guys may reason the situation like Byrne explains. My guess is that detainees who are innocent or very minor figures would prefer to be in the United States and getting processed in a legal system that allows them to make the case they did nothing wrong or were minor players. I also suspect that Bush apologists, partisan Republicans and people who think the government should be oppressing Muslims just because want to keep detainees in Gitmo for a couple reasons. One, the detainees can be abused in Gitmo without oversight. And two, when the detainees are in Gitmo and out of the courts the United States doesn’t have to deal with the issue that some of these people are innocent and some of them are low-level figures who don’t present a greater threat than a whole bunch of combat-aged males in Afghanistan. - The Doc - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:52 am: ==What’s an ultra-conservative?== If you have to ask… - Lee - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:57 am: =Gov. Pat Quinn says he may consider a special commission to look at the racial disparity in how Illinois schoolchildren are disciplined. […] Quinn said Monday he read with “interest” a report by The Associated Press that shows blacks account for half of all student suspensions even though they make up only one-fifth of the enrollment= Liberal political correctness at its worst. - shore - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:57 am: If you listen to democrats up here, it is a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control,anti-surge, pro-israel, pro-environment, congressman named mark kirk. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:00 am: Lee, how is it political correctness at its worst? You don’t think it’s worth a look? Did you read the AP story? Or are you just reacting? Please explain before commenting again. Thanks. I don’t like silly little drive-bys. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:02 am: Greg, perhaps it’s someone who refers to suburban women as “out-of-touch suburban ditzes.” Just sayin, dude… lol - WD Hammer - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:05 am: The point about a lack of long-range planning applies not only the Illinois State Prison System but virtually all State of Illinois agencies. Lip service is given to the subject with “Mission Statements” and all of that, but where the rubber hits the road in terms of real long-range considerations such as pension funding, care of the state’s facilities, right-sizing a workforce for appropriate public sector service delivery, etc., our leaders fall far short of the mark. - Greg B. - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:34 am: That’s not a definition. I can clearly define what I’m talking about. Suburban ditz — A mythical Republican woman voter in the Chicago suburbs who allegedly is against smaller government in the face of all economic evidence; stricter gun control laws in the face of evidence that shows some of the strictist gun control jurisdictions in the country have the highest gun homicide rates and 48 other states have concealed carry have fewer. Against measures to have uniform speed limits on interstates in the face of empirical evidence that it is no less dangerous yet hinders commerce and who support social and economic policies at odds with individual liberty, markets and practical experience… What criteria constitute an ultra-conservative? Let’s measure it. - walter sobchak - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:35 am: I read the AP story and other stories like it over the years. All such stories appeal to racial prejudices by using statistics in a meaningless manner. Or they use logical pretzels to arrive at any conclusion other than counting hooligans by race may lead to evidence that certain groups are more disruptive than others. Our city schools are an absolute disaster, with enormous drop out rates, epidemic levels of in school violence, absenteeism, teachers assaulted with impunity, the total breakdown of instruction, held in tenuous place by a modicum of discipline. But, the AP, and now the Governor, want to deflect from the failure to make schools effective for all students by focusing on ‘racial disparities’ in suspensions. Could it be that black students are disciplined for their behavior, and more are disciplined because more are disruptive? The entire Fenger situation both in (see the stories on the teacher’s blog) and out should occupy the Governor’s time not the classic Twain definition of statistics. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:37 am: Yeah. A blue ribbon commission to study issues is a good idea. I have only a few complaints about them, depending on the issue they are researching. If we had a governor who led, then these blue ribbon commissions will assist the executive branch in leading. On the other hand, we are seeing them replicate what is done in the General Assembly’s routine research, so they can be redundant. How about working together for a change? It isn’t like the GA and the Governor’s Office is being held by different political parties, right? How about working within the system here? Wouldn’t it be nice to see a change in how the political parties “work” (LOL) within the GA? Questioning Thomson isn’t just a stall tactic, it is what every citizen’s group does whenever the Federal Government takes over and ramrods a mandated condition resulting in a NIMBY issue. We’ve seen the Nevada Nuclear Waste Site situation lag-on for almost thirty years, so what’s with the ridiculous time table regarding Thomson? Whose stupid idea was it to turn a bipartisan agreement regarding the handling of terrorists into a partisan political game? How about demanding that politicians respect the laws and agreements previously passed with bipartisan support, especially during wartime? Just how can we expect the United States to stay United when we allow politicians to sink bipartisanship and substitute politics for compromise and unity? Yeah. A blue ribbon committee to allow questions to be raised regarding Thomson is the proper thing to do. It is worth noting that the politicians will use whatever power we gave them to divide Americans and Illinoians in order to score partisan political points, however. So, doing the right thing, will probably not be in their partisan political benefit. Meaning, we won’t have an opportunity to use our civil rights or exercise our citizenship, or property rights, on this catastrophic political decision. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:38 am: ===Could it be that black students are disciplined for their behavior, and more are disciplined because more are disruptive? === I’ll ignore the racial overtones for now, but you ask a question that probably deserves an answer. Why not, therefore, look into it? Or, do you think you already know the answer? If so, just say so and confirm my suspicions. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:44 am: Please let’s not jump to conclusions regarding black students. This issue has to be handled sensitively, and the data gathered needs to be handled honestly. Ask most teachers this question, and they can give you a straight answer. But straight answers is not what we need at this time. We need to establish respect first. If that is being politically correct - good. At least this is one of the few times being politically correct is the proper approach. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 10:47 am: VM is absolutely right. Goofy reactionaries need not apply. - walter sobchak - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 11:26 am: Yes, I think I do know the answer: students are disciplined individually for individual behaviors, not because of their race. Anyone can make a racial case for almost anything if that is their agenda. This is propaganda followed by politics. The issue is decades old and the story of ‘racial disparities’ an evergreen. Here’s one from 2004: http://www.enquirer.com/discipline/disciplineday3main.html A sample quote: “The disparity has been documented nationally for decades. In 1975, the Children’s Defense Fund reported that the rate of discipline was two to three times higher for black students.” Perhaps the Governor, VM, and others could use Google rather than a blue ribbon commission to find out that the problem is behavior not race. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 11:28 am: dude, did you even read that link you posted? Black students disciplined more Difference blamed on stereotypes, culture, poverty and behavior - George - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 11:44 am: Maybe if the Republicans made it a Red Ribbon commission they could get more traction… - Moving to Oklahoma - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 12:13 pm: “Could it be that black students are disciplined for their behavior, and more are disciplined because more are disruptive?” Why yes! It absolutely could be. However it has nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with the broken homes and lack of upward mobility in the black communities of Chicago. Lets look at some numbers… Nearly 70 percent of African American children are born to a single mother. According to the centers for disease control and the department of Health and human services, 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes, 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes and 85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes. There is a correlation between the environment that black children grow up in and the behavior they exhibit while in school. Perhaps I get the wrong impression but this article seems to imply that the discipline is disproportionate because of an underlying racism that exists. I do not believe the disproportionate numbers exist because teachers harbor racist attitudes toward minority students. CPS is simply the only place that any structure is provided for many of these young people who have no mentors in the home, and therefore you have out of whack discipline numbers. - walter sobchak - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 12:28 pm: Dude! Yes I did. I could pull as many quotes as you, but for what? The point is that this has been reported on since 1975 and there is a tremendous amount of literature available discussing reasons, but not solutions, to the problem. But, it is clear that most discipline is not racially motivated, but behavior caused. The AP story and the Governor’s reaction is a push pull: excite racial tensions and allow a politician to fan the flames during an election year to gin up support in key voting blocs. In my previous post I explained what I saw in the statistics: did I confirm your ’suspicions?’ - Will County Woman - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 12:40 pm: It is rather curious that Quinn has opted to not be true to form and appoint a commission or task force or panel to study the thomson matter. It just underscores the notion put forward by Mark Kirk and others that Thomson was a done deal when Quinn et al rolled it out under the auspices of being something novel and a job-maker. Surely if a thorough review of a government transactions/decision were warranted, Thomson certainly is it. This is a huge matter and I am not confident that the Thomson deal was decided properly. The political agendas clearly outweighed the overall public interests. Kirk has expressed legitimate reservations about the way Thomson issue is being handled and its usage as for the enemy combatants. Yet, ever the professional and pragmatist, he has expressed that he is willing to put his reservations aside for the sake of helping the Thomson done deal to bear the fruit that its backers claim it will. So, now we are reduced to just crossing our fingers and hoping for the best. And, yeah that’s exactly how government should function. (snark) :) - Montrose - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 12:41 pm: ++But, it is clear that most discipline is not racially motivated, but behavior caused.++ We could have a long, exhausting argument about the reality that the issue of race threads itself through every aspect of our culture. We cannot simply make a statement like yours and pretend that means racism is not a key factor in the world of behavior and discipline. It is a complex, structural issue that works on the conscious and subconscious level. The solution - part of the solution - is to have an honest conversation about the role of race in our society. - Ghost - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 12:49 pm: === The Pantagraph makes a good point…=== hey I said it here first! On the racial issue, our prsion criminal justice system has the same statistics. We jail a disproportinate amount of minorities, who also recieve a disproportionately heavy sentences, compared to the population. I tend to think it is a soci-economic issue and our failure to provide not only good education, but substantive and well funded extracuricular activites for the kids in highly urban, low income environments. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 6:18 pm: If you label people racially, you get a racial disparity in studies like this one. If instead we labeled people by socio-economic status, the headline is “Poor students expelled more often than nonpoor.” But then we’d have to talk about socio-economic indicators instead of race, and some of us, God bless us, would rather discuss race because it seems easier to understand than poverty. - Lynn S - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 11:18 pm: Amen, 47th Ward!! - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 2, 09 @ 8:45 am: What 47 said. If we weren’t so screwed up with two wars and a global financial meltdown, we could actually turn our attention and resources to some real domestic issues. Being a young, poor black man or woman in the city is about the hardest and most dangerous status you can have in this country. I admire the hell out of the majority who have the guts and drive to not take the easy way out of crime or dependency. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.