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Embracing the worst in ourselves
Tuesday, Mar 23, 2010 - Posted by Rich Miller * Our old friend Jim Nowlan has a new book…
But I’m not 100 percent sure this startling classroom exercise totally matches up with the hypothesis…
That’s probably true. But I’d add a question. Could it also be that the students have embraced this perceived system and are corrupt themselves? After all, believing that the system is inherently corrupt doesn’t at all excuse bribing somebody to get out of a DUI. Then again, if the belief is that the system is completely corrupt, a bribe may be seen as necessary just to get fair treatment. Open bribery was a part of life in Iraq when I was there. I witnessed it several times first-hand. The Iraqis use a more polite word than “bribery,” however. They call it “Baksheesh,” which translates somewhere between a tip and a bribe. Perhaps then they don’t feel as bad. But if you wanted something done with the government, you paid money. Period. No money meant it didn’t get done. It was a bribe in everything but name. The students in Nowlan’s class appear to believe the Baksheesh system is very much alive and well in Illinois, and they’ve embraced it to the point where they are willing to break the law themselves to get a governmental favor. That’s disturbing on more levels than I can fathom at the moment. I’ve also seen this attitude in campaigns, mainly when it comes to first-time amateur volunteers. The last 50th Ward aldermanic contest featured plenty of whispers about lawbreaking by both sides. Much of the more blatant problems appeared to result from recent or somewhat recent immigrants who had heard lots of Chicago corruption stories and thought what they were doing was standard operating procedure. Oops. Illinois has been a corrupt state pretty much since its inception. Back when Abe Lincoln was a state House member, individual businesses were required to pass a law before they could incorporate. That meant lots of legislators were put on corporate boards, or got bigtime corporate contracts. So, maybe it really is a part of our DNA. Anyway, this is more than a little rambling, so let’s move on. * The Tribune editorializes against a reform bill because it doesn’t end legislative scholarships…
“Dozens of examples” every year? I must’ve missed that series. * Related…
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- Johnny USA - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 9:37 am:
“Illinois residents are largely passive when it comes to the state’s culture of corruption, allowing it to fester for decades, says one author in a new book on state government.”
I beg to differ. It is my opinion is more voters are benefiting from the corruption than not.
- Greg B. - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 9:48 am:
You’re right to question the validity of his ethical hypothesis. In an abstract hypothetical situation a respondent is going to be more likely to accept the riskier scenario because of the low cost and high benefits. When confronted with the real situation, however, they are more likely to weight the costs and benefits more wisely.
There are a lot of cultural and social artifacts in these kinds of Q’s that take a lot of sorting out.
And I don’t think Illinoisans accept a lot of corruption. They tolerate some out of rational ignorance. They don’t have time in their busy lives to micromanage political actors.
We’re slow to change in Illinois but the tolerance level continues to drop. The Internet, forums such as this, make government more transparent and the information re: corruption is transmitted far better than it used to be. There is still ways to go, but was acceptable even 10 years ago isn’t anymore.
- One of the 35 - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:14 am:
When people are faced with something that is going to cost them lots of money or loss of face, their reasoning process becomes altered. They do things under pressure that they might not ordinarily do under normal circumstances. That does not make it right to bribe someone to relieve the pressure; its just a psychological analysis of the behavior. I think Nowlan’s execise is on target in that respect. Over the years, he has been very good at such esoteric research and observation.
- The Doc - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:16 am:
I don’t agree with Greg B. on much, but we’re in lockstep here.
Constant exposure to tales of clout and patronage perpetuate the notion that the losers play by the rules.
It’s perhaps the silver lining of the economic collapse - more focus on the machinations of both business and government.
- jaded voter - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:23 am:
===IL residents are largely passive when it comes to the state’s culture of corruption, allowing it to fester…..”
Completely true.
JOHNNY USA,
most voters DO NOT benefit from corruption. Those benefits go to a select few–the insiders.
Everyone else pays. Higher Property tax, Higher sales tax, coming higher income tax, red light cameras, parking tickets, fees this, fees that…..etc….
- George - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:32 am:
Rich, in a similar vein, out of Pennsylvania is a story that puts Illinois’ “campaign workers on state legislative staff” story to shame.
- Will County Woman - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:35 am:
Re: State government won’t release details of Department on Aging move
If this had been Todd Stoger, his head would’ve been on a stick by now. the BGA and Tribune and Fox 32 et al. would’ve made sure of that.
- Responsa - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:36 am:
I think, Rich, your comparisons to Baksheesh were fascinating and pretty close to right on. I agree the culture (DNA) of Illinois politics has been very much like that and ingrained for years, and that it is sometimes difficult for people both inside and outside of politics to distinguish that line in the sand where “access” ends and “illegal” begins.
On my first day of college level poli-sci class the professor told us to never, ever lose sight of the fact that no politician runs a campaign that costs a million dollars purely so he can make $40,000 a year and “serve the people”. (Obviously the economics demonstrates this class was a while ago!)
Finally, though I’m the last person in the state who would ever empathize with Blago, I could not help but watch the goings on in Washington over the past few months and wonder what he was thinking. He knew he had “something golden”. So did more than a few senators and representatives who knew they had something golden (their healthcare votes) and publicly bartered them in several cases for extremely unsavory special deals, or (allegedly) for future government appointments. Of course there are legal distinctions to be made, but to much of America the deals may not look all that dissimilar to what Blago tried to do. “Well, that’s dirty politics as usual”, the public mutters to itself.
- jaded voter - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:37 am:
Oh by the way DUI’s raise lot’s of revenue for counties and municipalities.
Drunk driving should NOT be tolerated, like it was in the past, but we have gone too far the other way.
We are getting to the point where people socializing with a few drinks are on the verge of criminal behavior. Any social gathering with alcohol puts many people over a very restrictive limit.
Erratic DRIVING of any kind should get people pulled over. But overly aggressive DUI enforcement and the revenue it generates has pushed “pro-active” policing. It is the beginning of a police state. In today’s environment, police pull drivers over because it is late and the odds are they have probably consumed some alcohol. This is not the direction a free society should take.
- jaded voter - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:39 am:
Responsa,
Good argument for Publically funding elections, at least partially.
- CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:42 am:
…”…But the abuses are shameless and widespread. Anyone who takes the time to scrub the public documents can find dozens of examples in any given year, and the bad apples are brazenly unapologetic. …”
Wow Now they editorial writers don’t even read the paper before they pour another bowl of slop out.
Shameless and widespread? Hardly.
They failed….that’s right failed… to even make a good quid pro quo case ….but that does stop the screamers at this bankrupt company that is itself involved in at least 2 federal investigations.
Exactly who is shameless these days? The countclocksters or the victims of their editorials.
As Capt Fax likes to say from time to time
Bite Me
- misery - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:46 am:
I don’t think its totally an Illinois thing. If you posed that same question to students in similar classrooms around the country, I bet you’d get similar results in 75% of the time.
I’m just saying, yes its bad, but don’t think that we’re alone. I lived in another state. I saw something like this happen and it was very matter-of-fact.
Don’t tell me that people don’t think like this in many other states, they do. We just seem especially proud of our history of corruption. Other places they are a little more humble about it.
- Will County Woman - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:46 am:
p.s.,
I think this headline ‘Quinn administration refuses information on Aging lease’ is more accurate than the other one.
- jaded voter - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 10:48 am:
Misery,
loves company. Your comment is spot on.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:11 am:
Rich -
As you noted earlier this week, Mother Tribune doesn’t let facts, or even mathematics, get in the way of a good editorial.
YDD
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:18 am:
@ misery et al -
If Professor Nowlan had asked his students about bribery, I’d agree with you. Probably even if he’d used the words “campaign contribution.”
But the question was “pull some strings.”
Who has never pulled some strings:
- to get good concert tickets;
- a reservation at a restaurant;
- an important meeting with a potential client;
- a job interview for themselves or a friend;
- etc.
You hire a defense lawyer. The defense lawyer has spent years cultivating relationships with the prosecutor, to both of their benefits. The defense lawyer calls in a favor on behalf of his client, your relative, “a good guy who just made a mistake.”
Like it or not, that is how the system works. It may not be objective, it may sometimes be capricious, but that’s the way it works not just in Cook County or in Illinois, but in every county in the state and every state in the nation.
- You Go Boy - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:33 am:
Illinois is corrupt because of politicians who’ve abandoned the right moral code and by citizens who abet them actively or passively. Rome was corrupt before, during and after Caesar’s reign, but empires come and empires go. Attribute it to a lack of moral code or the “nature of things”, but we are not ascending as a nation in any way that I see. These pols we castigate see it as well and as Royko noted, they are only interested in “Getting Mine”.
- Brooke - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:39 am:
YDD- Your list is apples & oranges. There is a major difference between pulling strings as a private citizen and an elected official. At issue here is the way that government systems work because that’s what is funded by all taxpayers, not just the connected ones. That young people have begun embracing this corrupt culture in public life b/c they think the status quo is acceptable, as Rich suggests, is truly cynical & discouraging.
- Brooke - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:44 am:
& to clarify- I mean cynical of young people.
- Pat Robertson - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:54 am:
==Good argument for Publically funding elections, at least partially.==
Better argument for cutting back government, so there is less to steal. If the SOS only had 10 employees, George Ryan would be a free man today because none of his misdeeds made economic sense without an army of patronage jobs.
Public funding for elections just subsidizes the thieves.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:57 am:
===If the SOS only had 10 employees===
Then you’d have to wait 20 years to renew your drivers license.
- erstwhilesteve - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:02 pm:
There may have been rumors on both sides in the 50th ward in 2007, but when the indictments came down, they only implicated the sitting alderman’s people….
- Louis Howe - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:04 pm:
YYD has the right take…If Nowlan used the term, “pull some strings,” he confused the issue. Bribery is one thing, however, using relationships and networking to get things done is something else. How do you think Nowlan and Edgar got juicy jobs at the U of I?
- HealthCare Worker - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:05 pm:
Bribery is worldwide. When my brother was adopting from Russia he was told to bring $5,000 american cash.
He found that it made long lines and many questions “disappear”…
- Cousin Ralph - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:23 pm:
YDD, your post explains why you do not refer to yourself as YDR
- Amalia - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:35 pm:
Corruption is often found in government systems which are
overly complex, not transparent, multi layered. African systems,
Soviet of old, and some new, Illinois. Illinois has the most
governmental units of any place on the planet. It is confusing,
and often in the dark, as to how things get done.
Where else but Chicago is it a requirement that there is an
ordinance for a stop sign? many functions which fall to
professionals in government are made by legislative decision
here.
this presents opportunity for lobbying, influence, campaign
contributions, bribery.
it will be interesting to read their book. I would like a simple
list of the functions which are legislated in Illinois which are
not legislated elsewhere, be it the Legislature, or the Chicago
City Council or other. It would also be interesting to list
any jurisdictions other than Cook which have so many separately
elected officials and make corruption comparisions. the trend
is to consolidate governments. Pittsburgh is moving ahead
exploring this, including with a Rand Corporation grant.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:37 pm:
====Like it or not, that is how the system works. It may not be objective, it may sometimes be capricious, but that’s the way it works not just in Cook County or in Illinois, but in every county in the state and every state in the nation.
What’s funny is how many academic lawyers I’ve been in academic talks with who refuse to believe this happens and that it’s a great corruption of the mythological system they believe in and apparently teach actually exists.
Courts are a social institution with people in them with social capital. As such, relationships affect the administration of them. Defense lawyers build those relationships because it benefits their clients–and they can’t throw the relationships away on bad risks. It’s not a perfect situation, but it’s also not the clear case of corruption that Nowlan thinks it is.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:39 pm:
Cousin Ralph, that’s just an infantile partisan response. Republicans haven’t been corrupt? Give me a break.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:42 pm:
Larry, when a lawyer asks you for an extra grand to make sure a charge goes away, something’s definitely amiss.
- girllawyer - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:48 pm:
Yellow Dog Democrat, I could not disagree more. There may be instances when prosecutors act unethically and dismiss a criminal charge as “a favor” to a defense attorney but each and every time that happens it is an unethical act. A defense attorney may and should try to persuade a prosecutor why it would be reasonable or just to reduce or dismiss a charge but to do it as a “favor” or a quid pro quo of some kind is outrageous behavior. Your posting that this is “normal” is an insult to prosecutors, defense attorneys and the entire justice system.
- Pat Robertson - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:57 pm:
==Then you’d have to wait 20 years to renew your drivers license. ==
Unless the license requirement were eliminated. The argument is for smaller government. As long as there is government, there will be temptation to corruption because people will be playing with other people’s money. There’s no avoiding it. It happens with big corporations, too, although market forces provide some constraints not felt by government. Keeping down the size reduces the temptation.
I make no predictions on whether or not health care reform will be a net gain for the American people, but as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, it means a quantum leap in wasteful bureaucracy and billing fraud.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:59 pm:
===Unless the license requirement were eliminated===
Oh, for Pete’s sake.
Really?
Perhaps it’s time to find another blog. lol
- CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 1:11 pm:
Nowlan also cited a quote from a retired Quad City executive to emphasize how corrupt Illinois is when compared with some of its neighbors.
“If you want to do business in Iowa, you go in the front door. If you want to do business in Illinois, you go in the side door,” he said, quoting the man.”
Wonder if Jim gives any names in his book ….when David Hoffman tried last year to tell a similiar story as part of the Reform Commission a couple calls revealed the incident did not really occur.
One can only wonder if the businessman does biz with IL
How about some details?
In the meantime, let’s remember when Prof Dick Simpson did his state funded “study” on public corruption he had to look for 40 years to find 1,500 people (including several found not guilty) who could be labeled corrupt. The study included elected and employed state,county, city, suburban officials.
This is a universe of more than 1 million. The data suggests Illinois is not corrupt as the whinners/reformers want you to believe.
- CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 1:17 pm:
Reader Alert
The table of contents suggest Nowlan turned to Kent Redfield to write about elections….that should considerably lower the value of this tome. Sorry Jim
- Leroy - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 1:46 pm:
== Then you’d have to wait 20 years to renew your drivers license. ==
Why do we we need to renew our drivers license every 4 years? That seems silly. Why *not* every 20 years?
- George - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 2:48 pm:
“Why do we we need to renew our drivers license every 4 years?”
It’s a socialist plot.
- Dont tell the insurance company - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 2:59 pm:
If the outcome is the same, what is the difference if the $1000 is paid to the attorney or the Court?
I think Nowlan was providing his students the opportunity to discover that the culture of corruption and the influence of money can affect all forms of government.
How it is any different for a defense attorney, State’s Attorney or a Judge to offer to the accused an opportunity for the offense to not be entered into the public record after a brief probationary period and a sizable fee?
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 3:18 pm:
Illinois has been a corrupted state for a very long time. The difference between it and the Soviet Union is how much money is available in the community pot to cover up the corruption.
During flush times, we often don’t see this kind of attitude. Citizens are employed, roads are paved and children are learning, so this tampers down the cynicism which searches and does business with the ethically challenged.
Today, we are no longer flush with cash. It is like draining an old canal. When the water is gone, you see all the junk, debris and bodies. This is where we are today in Illinois. The solutions are to either demand more cash from Illinoisans to fill the canals to the level where you don’t see the garbage lying at it’s bottom, or you clean out the canal by removing the garbage and ensuring that no more garbage is allowed to be dumped into the canal.
In Lincoln’s time, Illinois was broke. Thanks to Governor Ford at the time, Illinois avoided total bankruptsy. You get corruption when a state is broken, as has been and currently is the case, with Illinois.
I have lived in Colorado where this kind of stuff is not tolerated. In Kansas where I lived, this stuff is not tolerated. In Germany where I lived, this stuff is definately not tolerated. Illinois accepts it because it has a broken, bankrupted state government, and has had to endure this situation during economic downturns throughtout the state history.
- jaded voter - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 3:23 pm:
Pat Robertson you’ve been spending too much time at the 700 club and reading comedians like Grover Norquist.
- jaded voter - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 3:25 pm:
Well said Pale man.
- cermak_rd - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 3:32 pm:
I agree with YDD that pulling strings is different from bribery. I had a BIL at one time that was an attorney. I also have a niece. She was convicted (confessed) of a violent assault on someone and got probation plus had a criminal record. My BIL, upon noticing that one of the judges had won a higher seat, approached that judge about getting the criminal record expunged. Because the judge was in a good mood, because he won and the case did not involve any permanent injury to the victim, he acquiesced.
Now in this case no money exchanged hands between my niece and my BIL. Ethical? Not so sure. Bribery? No. Pulling strings? Definitely.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 7:32 pm:
That’s right, VMan, Illinois is just like the Soviet Union. You’re a perfect example: an obviously do-nothing government employee who can’t even spell.
You tea-partiers have no appreciation for the life you have in the United States. You have more freedom and more material wealth than 99% of the people who ever walked the planet.
- Park - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 8:52 pm:
Lived in Michigan for 24 years, moved to Missouri for 6, then here. Compared to those states, Illinois is very corrupt. Are there worse? probably. But people who grow up here assume that this kind of government is normal. It’s not. It’s really, truly, banana-republic bad.
Thompson was gov when I came here. Couldn’t believe he was really an R. I really think that most of the politicians I’ve seen, R or D, still follow the ‘old daley’ model. I was convinced that Pate Phillips, the last of the legislative opposition leaders, was really a CCD who moved to Du Page and carried on the same process.
You all hate Brady. I see him as the first ‘real’ R here since I moved in. Probably means he won’t make it. Pass the bananas.