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*** UPDATED x10 *** Stupid Internet tricks
Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 - Posted by Rich Miller * In the age of the Internet, nothing ever disappears. For instance, somebody claiming to be with Bill Brady’s campaign radically changed the candidate’s Wikipedia page. Actually, it was more of a hack than a change, and there’s a complete record to back up what was changed and why. Wikipedia is a community-based product, but Brady’s campaign supporter went in and whacked the page but good, deleting references to gay rights, gun control, stem cell research and other basic policy proposals. The original, unedited by Brady, page is here. It included stuff like this…
The Brady-edited page is pure campaign talking points. Check it out…
The campaign supporter twice explained why it substituted facts for drivel in the page’s change log…
Yeah. OK. The original page has since been restored. Hat tip: Rebecca Mastey. …Adding… From the Quinn campaign…
*** UPDATE 1 - 1:09 pm *** As if all that wasn’t enough, the Brady campaign person is now claiming that the revisions which undid its attempts at posting blatant propaganda are “vandalism.” Give me a break. And, since I know that the Brady campaign monitors this site, I have a message for it: Stop playing around with Wikipedia because you look like total morons. *** UPDATE 2 - 1:36 pm *** Unreal. The Brady campaign backer just changed the Wikipedia page back to propaganda mode. The reason?…
Sheesh. *** UPDATE 3 - 1:50 pm *** The Brady Interwebtube goofballs have even changed the discussion section to mirror the propaganda page. These guys are just bizarre. *** UPDATE 4 - 1:58 pm *** The page keeps going back and forth. Check the history logs. The pro-Brady forces are now saying that the original Wikipedia article is propaganda…
*** UPDATE 5 - 2:07 pm *** Added references to campaign supporter/backer/person for accuracy’s sake. That person may be Brady’s niece. *** UPDATE 6 - 2:20 pm *** Weirder and weirder it gets. The blog apparently run by Sen. Brady’s niece just went private. I had posted a question to her on the blog a few minutes ago about the Wikipedia changes. *** UPDATE 7 - 2:37 pm *** Wikipedia has now locked down the page…
The discussion page is now back to the way it was as well. Mess with the bull, get the horn. *** UPDATE 8 - 3:09 pm *** Somehow, the lock has been broken. Brady’s Wikipedia page has been changed back to propaganda mode. *** UPDATE 9 - 3:13 pm *** This is like watching a bad ping-pong game. We’re back to normal Wiki mode. *** UPDATE 10 - 3:28 pm *** The whole point of this post is how things posted on the Internet never go away. If you’re interested in screen shots of the now-private blog by what appears to be the person behind some of these changes, click here. * Meanwhile, 10th District Republican candidate Bob Dold posted this on his Facebook site not long ago…  That post prompted a stinging press release from Dold’s Democratic opponent, Dan Seals…
Dold removed the post from his Facebook site. But it lives on thanks to the Seals campaign and ArchPundit, who notes…
That refers to a dustup over whether Dold is actually pro-choice or not. * Anyway, I asked Dold’s campaign why the candidate posted that item to Facebook. The response…
…Adding… The Seals campaign responded to the crack on not having solutions by providing this link. And why did he delete it?…
You can’t ever “take things down” on the Internet. It’s somewhere forever. And that deletion sure looks suspicious to me. * Related…
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- budget boy - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:41 pm:
Pat Quinn’s Wikipedia site is pure campaign talking points as well. Shouldn’t that come under the same scrutiny?
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:41 pm:
I wonder how Mark Kirk fights the temptation to write his own wiki entry. It would be a pip.
- Leroy - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:48 pm:
Speaking of stem cells, whatever happened to all those millions tax payer dollars Blago pledged for stem cell research in Illinois?
We get a cure for cancer or anything out of that?
- Montrose - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:48 pm:
*I wonder how Mark Kirk fights the temptation to write his own wiki entry. It would be a pip.*
I hear he just tried to change the name on this entry - http://xrl.in/5yh7
- Techboy - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:49 pm:
A lot of people don’t understand how Wikipedia works, and this is the result. WP’s rules for what can be sourced are a little complicated. For example, Rich could post something true to a wiki page about Blagojevich, or try to correct an error, yet it would get kicked out unless it was in the form of a link to a published article, like one of his columns. Even the posting can go thru a vetting process before it gets locked in as a stipulated fact, as far as the Wiki community standards go. So you can be the ultimate expert on a subject and not get Wiki’s “blessing” on what you put up, without going thru the full process. Brady’s people were too lazy or clueless to go thru that process, so no surprise the Wiki editors revert the material. It’s not per se political that they do, but a function of their method of operation. WHile I wouldn’t trust Wikipedia as my sole source for ANYTHING important, this way of linking to the published background is often a useful first step in research.
- budget boy - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:54 pm:
thanks techboy that is helpful.
- Niles Township - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:55 pm:
Line of the day: (from Quinn’s staff): “If Bill Brady doesn’t think his record is too extreme - then why did he erase it….?”
Jan has been paying lots of attention to Pollak. She never does that to her opponents. I’m wondering if she has polling suggesting some trouble.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:59 pm:
Ummm…
Was the change in fact made by the Brady campaign.
If you whois the IP address it comes back to Glenview does he have a campaign office there?
- just sayin' - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:59 pm:
That kind of shiftiness sounds par for the course from the Bill Brady I’ve watched over the years.
Sure, I’m sure some staffer did it. But that comes out of a culture that’s established from the top.
Conservatives of course should be screaming bloody murder that Brady is running away from his conservative positions. But of course we’ll not hear anything because Republicans just want the Mansion and the patronage back. Nothing else matters.
- shore - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 12:59 pm:
stupid stupid. ryan supports privatizing social security and major cuts so I am sure that will be revisited this fall. Interesting that Brady has been very publicly UNAPOLOGETIC about his positions on social issues but his team is trying to hide his positions. competence svp.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:05 pm:
===If you whois the IP address it comes back to Glenview does he have a campaign office there?
It comes back to different locations–likely it’s a dynamic IP and it could be any Comcast internet subscriber. It could actually be one of his family members as the text suggested which I tend to think is kind of cute, though a bit weird.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:14 pm:
== Conservatives of course should be screaming bloody murder that Brady is running away from his conservative positions. But of course we’ll not hear anything because Republicans just want the Mansion and the patronage back. Nothing else matters. ==
No we are just sick of what the Democrats have done to this state having all of the power. Can you really defend how the Democrats have run this state for the past 8 years?
- OneMan - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:21 pm:
That’s why you do it in pieces and do it from hotspots….
- RebeccaMastey - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:25 pm:
“Stop playing around with Wikipedia because you look like total morons.”
That just about sums it up!
Their “editors” have been reported on the Biographies of Living Persons notice board. I’m looking forward to a ban and/or edit lock soon.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:26 pm:
===That’s why you do it in pieces and do it from hotspots….
They at least got that part right…
- Hitman Hart - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:29 pm:
I don’t know if this is that big of news: changing of a Wikipedia page. It’s a good thing that Wiki doesn’t allow itself to be used as a campaign board because that’s not its objective. I would expect any candidate to check out how Wiki portrays them, and I’d expect someone from either inside a campaign or a supporter to try and tweak things. Although you see it as a hack job, I just see it as a campaign propaganda gone awry. And yes, it was a dumb idea to do.
- Cindy Lou - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:47 pm:
Actually that is kinda funny. I went to the page the day Rich asked his QOTD about positive on both Quinn/Brady. That day I could find nothing ‘positive’ about Brady I wanted to tout…oh wait, now he’s wonderful (rolling eyes)
- 3rd time is no charm - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:48 pm:
Seals page of “solutions” consists of PAYGO, cutting contractors, and reducing ap payments. Does he really believe that will take care of the 1 trillion+ yearly deficits? That is not a plan. At least Paul Ryan is offering something and starting a real discussion. Seals has offered only nonsense. No wonder he’s lost twice.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:54 pm:
Actually the Brady people switched it twice in the hour. Hysterical
- Sacks Romana - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 1:58 pm:
What Brady’s campaign is doing is just wrong, and they’re fools for not recognizing it. I’m a huge defender of wikipedia to all those people who don’t understand why I trust something I “just read on the internet”. Techboy above already did a really good job of explaining the rules.
Why doesn’t his campaign focus their efforts here instead:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Bill_Brady
Leave the facts to people who care about them.
- Sacks Romana - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:02 pm:
Sorry Brady: “Reality has a well-known liberal bias.” - Stephen Colbert
I hope the MSM can also get past their intermittent technophobia, and blast his campaign for this. It’s amateur hour.
- John Bambenek - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:02 pm:
Just because someone says it’s Brady’s campaign, doesn’t make it so. It could just be a supported hopped up on goofballs. Or it could be ShadyBillBrady. Who knows. Also, who cares?
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:13 pm:
Dear Jerry Clarke,
Is it worth all this back and forth for a Wiki page that most people would have never seen, nor cared about? With all that is going on (or going wrong?), this is going to be your battle for the day? Week?
Jerry, the resources you are wasting on this makes me wonder, “What is the focus of what is going on over there?????”
My first thought, “Maybe they found something for Jason Plummer to do?” Then I thought, “This crew is going back and forth AND defending the back and forth?” It must be someone who is tech savy? Draw your own conclusion …
Jerry, please … It started with pointing out that wonderful social record as your 1st pronouncement after Dillard stepped aside. We all know how that went! Then, there was the backtracking on the pet killing bill … now we worry about Wiki????
Run on the economy, look like there is direction in a campaign, instead of it looking like two dopes in a basement seeing who is cooler in the Wiki world.
Thanks!
- Sacks Romana - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:16 pm:
Great question/straw man argument, John Bambenek! Let me check Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_(disambiguation)
It appears there are 7 distinct articles on pokemon.
Seriously, you don’t want to get into an argument over the huge value and service wikipedia provides on thousands upon thousdans of subjects. The website really speaks for itself, and your comment just shows that you’ve never used it.
I guarantee lots of people will simply wikipedia the candidates throughout the months of Sept and Oct. There’s nothing wrong with Brady trying to improve his image on his entry, but you can’t just delete cited entries and paste your talking points in. It’s intellectual dishonesty, and his campaign team needs to be put in their place about it.
- Really?? - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:21 pm:
The Brady campaign may not think his position on issues like abortion rights, gay marriage, or puppies paints him in the best light, but oh well! Then maybe they should have backed a candidate that doesn’t have those positions.
- RebeccaMastey - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:28 pm:
“This page is semi-protected.
Editing of this article by new or unregistered users is currently disabled to prevent Biographies of living persons violations.
See the protection policy and protection log for more details. If you cannot edit this article and you wish to make a change, you can request an edit, discuss changes on the talk page, request unprotection, log in, or create an account.”
And the Wiki system works its magic.
- Publius - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:29 pm:
Article is locked now from editing from untrusted sources.
- Macbeth - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:36 pm:
Don’t want to go ad hominem — but Brady (and his sunburned photo) is creepy. The whole “I’m a business man, I play golf and know how to fix things around here” is the last thing Illinois needs.
- Montrose - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:42 pm:
What I am seeing when you click on the wiki link is the Brady Campaign’s approved wiki page text. I thought it reverted back to the original?
- ela observer - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:46 pm:
If the page has been locked down now, why does it appear that it has been locked down in favor of the Brady propaganda? I see nothing about his positions on abortion, etc., there now.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:48 pm:
“Pay no attention to that extreme right wing agenda
behind the curtain. just watch the pretty pictures
of my wife. ignore those sufering who could
benefit from stem cell research, the women who
need mamograms, and the people denied human
rights. I will bring Illinois back to the 50s where
it belongs!”
- just sayin' - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:52 pm:
The other 162 Republicans or whatever the number was who ran for governor in the primary are once again saying to themselves, “I can’t believe I lost to this guy!!”
After this warm-up on Wikipedia, I personally can’t wait to see what Brady would do to state government. No wonder his business is failing so bad he doesn’t even have to pay taxes.
- John Bambenek - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 2:57 pm:
Sacks-
Actually I was talking printed pages, but either way, you do know there are more pages about Pokemon than just ones named Pokemon, right? For instance, check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pok%C3%A9mon
That’s the main category, you can see subcategories several deep that list among other things, every pokemon character, TV episode or video game involving Pokemon.
I’m sure people have been helped by Wikipedia, that doesn’t make it a serious resource. In fact, if I do get back to teaching, I would summarily fail anyone who ever cited Wikipedia as a source (unless said paper was about Wikipedia itself).
Wikipedia is little more than Jimbo Wales SEO and MLM scam where other people do the work, he gets paid and Google makes Wikipedia the top search in almost any search term.
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 3:19 pm:
Are people crazy?
Wikipedia?
Who reads what politicians have on Wikipedia? Who would believe what politicians have on Wikipedia?
Unbelievably stupid. My recommendations for candidates and public officials is to request Wikipedia drop their entry completely. You have to be an idiot to give any Wikipedia entry on a politician the remotest level of credibility, and an evern bigger idiot to mess with it.
- Really?? - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 3:34 pm:
It now reflects Brady’s true voting record.
- Ghost - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 3:41 pm:
I wonder if mainstream media outlets will pick this up.
It may highlite information about Brady that was generally unknown until they treid to revise history.
you do have to wonder that brady and his people are so fearful of the public knowing his actual position on various social issues.
- Niles Township - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:08 pm:
Brady = Amateur Hour; Quinn will win this thing only because he is facing Brady. Otherwise, Quinn would lose badly.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:12 pm:
Because no ONE is going to give up, and “lose face”, now someone WILL … lose face …
Who is running the show on this????
- Team Sleep - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:12 pm:
My dad is a college professor. If someone turns in a paper and notes Wikipedia as a source, he returns a paper or project with a note to use another source. If I were running someone’s campaign and I were a bit more tech-savvy, I would open up a Wikipedia page and put only “So-and-so is awesome! Here’s a link to our website.” Brady’s folks are putting way too much stock into this. At least it’s the doldrums of the summer campaign season…
- Served - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:14 pm:
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by VMan and John Bambenek’s reactionary opinions on Wikipedia. It reeks of “just don’t get it and don’t want to” and “back in my day”ism.
The fact is that it’s a fantastic compendium of resources on a near-infinite number of topics. Sure, many of the entries on current events and public figures may receive some vandalism from time to time, the vast majority are edited and maintained by professionals and experts. They also include linked citations to factual claims, which makes it an amazing beginning place for research and a broad overview of a topic. It’s not some internet message board run by children or gremlins.
I hope I never see the day when I become resistant to progress and new things.
- John Bambenek - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:18 pm:
Served-
Why thank you for that little bit of psychoanalysis in to who John Bambenek is. I’d love to sit down and hear more about myself, particularly my technophobic tendencies.
Or maybe I actually do have a well-informed opinion based on my, oh, maybe 15 or so years in IT that just happens to disagree with yours.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:18 pm:
Please tell me that no one is basing ANY facts that are on Wiki as the basis of generating an honest opinion?
If someone tells me, “well, Wiki said …” I am usually at the point of thinking about my next meal, or what I am going to do the next day …
- Nearly Normal - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:19 pm:
When I taught research skills I would always, always tell my students NOT to rely on Wikipedia. If you want to use a fact from Wikipedia make sure that there are references to the original source OR DO NOT USE IT!
Better, yet, go to the original source and see how the info cited fits into its context in the full article. Find out about who the author was and all the details on the website or publisher.
If I were still teaching, I could use this situation as an example of why one cannot always trust the information in Wikipedia.
Verify sources is so very critical in this new world of electronic communication. If students can’t/won’t follow through how can we expect their parents and other adults?
It takes work to be an informed electorate.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:21 pm:
People, let’s not get too far off on this tangent, please. Thanks.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:27 pm:
Rich, What is the backstory on this? Does the Brady Crew THINK this is helping, a fight worth making noise about? It is only highlighting what is missing and making more questions ….
Fiasco!
- Sacks Romana - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:27 pm:
John, attacking the large quantity of useless information on wikipedia is irrelevant to the large quantity of useful information on wikipedia.
I would also fail a student who used Wikipedia as a source. That student should scroll to the bottom of the page, and find the primary source Wikipedia is quoting. I’m not arguing that the large quantity of information on wikipedia is a substitute for a library or serious research. But I challenge you to find a factual error on a well-regulated topic like the American Revolution. The entry is far more vast and detailed than the World Book Encyclopedia I grew up with.
And finally, none of that alters the fact that many voters will use wikipedia to research the candidates. This speaks to the character of the campaign. Of course, the campaign might be let off the hook if they can just blame the whole thing on his overzealous niece. You’d think they would have read the CapFax by now, and told her to cut it out.
- John Bambenek - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:34 pm:
Sacks Romana-
No, I’d attack Wikipedia because it has really odd biases. For instance, if you have anything to do with Sci-Fi, Anime, Porn, or Pokemon, I would expect very thorough treatment. Anything political, not so much.
To me, it’s nothing more than an SEO scam where you google search something and you get a wikipedia article that’s little more than a compendium or the say, next 10, google hits on the topic.
Sure, by all means, use it to find good original sources, that’d be a decent use of Wikipedia. And factual errors are only a small portion of manifestations in the pantheon of bias.
Sure, of course, people will research candidates with Wikipedia. Some voters will vote based on the sex appeal of the candidate too. And that goes to the general problem of information in the internet, or anywhere for that matter. Gleaning out the real content from the over-abundance of crap.
If I wanted to sort through that much crap, I’d turn on cable news.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:35 pm:
Again, enough. Move along.
- Ellen Beth Gill - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:39 pm:
Something I’ve never understood about Kirk and now Dold, if they really believe in this stuff, why are they so reluctant to say it and stand behind it?
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:43 pm:
===an SEO scam===
Please. They don’t have advertising.
Again, enough. Last warning. Deletions to begin.
- John Bambenek - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 4:49 pm:
SEO is not all about advertising… since you’re point was things on the internet stay forever…
SEO is the art of making your stuff on the internet come up higher on search engines. Advertising is a big influence, but it’s not like google bombs are unheard of in politics.
For instance, if I were one of the campaigns and I had some coin that I’d want to spend on screwing with my opponent, I’d use SEO to bump up some of the more uncomplimentary content out on the intarwebz so it shows up high in search results.
- Monstrum - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 6:30 pm:
It’s not at all about relying on Wikipedia as a research resource or as final word on a candidate. But this lovely discussion about it pointed me to the little-addressed bit that Brady supports teaching creationism is schools. As if our schools don’t have enough trouble educating kids in science! As that fact gets circulated there are a whole lot of people throughout the country who are really concerned about science education who will finally sit up and pay attention to the IL Governor’s race.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 6:55 pm:
Schock a celebrity judge on Top Chef, Snooki rings the bell
yesterday to start the trading at the NYSE…..it’s the apocalypse,
Jersey Shore edition!
- kirk constituent - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 7:46 pm:
Dold has erased many web positions, and he got his anti-choice endorsers to delete his name from their online lists, too. Too bad some of us saved the old versions and have documentation of his ridiculous facebook posting and his anti-choice positions from these pages and prior interviews. He keeps running, but he just can’t hide.
- Hubba Bubba - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 10:23 pm:
C’mon man. 6 minutes after you say deletions to begin Bambi posts about something even further off-tangent to the tale of Bill Brady’s niece who benefited from nepotism and then got caught.
She should’ve just gone to Starbucks like every other day she got bored at campaign HQ.
- Hubba Bubba - Wednesday, Jul 28, 10 @ 10:30 pm:
Even though he tries to keep it on the down/low we all know Bob “mo’ conservative than he lets on, yo” Dold shows the tea party loons lots o’ luv but that’s some seriously weak-tea backpedaling there.
Kelly Klopp must not’ve been having a good day.
Hey - and PS y’all - once you take the $9000+ in refunds Dold gave back his net take was LESS than Seals for Q2.
Just cuz the guy’s running for Kirk’s seat doesn’t mean he should feel a need to be a cereal embellisher like Kirk too.