Plans to reform the state’s pension system are not sitting well with some unions representing state employees.
They’ve launched a television ad campaign about a reform movement that they say will rob them of money they’ve earned. Illinois’ largest public employee unions — representing hundreds of thousands of workers including teachers, police officers and firefighters — have joined forces for a major media campaign aimed at protecting their pension benefits.
The 30-second ads feature Illinois public employees or actors posing as such. One ad says: “I worked my whole life, I gave money from every paycheck, I never missed a payment because they promised us a modest pension.”
Public worker unions, under the banner We Are One Illinois, will spend over $1 million airing the commercials statewide. They want the public to meet the potentially newest losers in the so-called pension reform movement.
* That’s a pretty decent sized buy. Here’s one of the group’s two ads. Rate it…
* The unionsalso have a new poll which shows that only 48 percent of 807 Illinois voters know that public employees contribute to pension funds. Also, 29 percent thought that public employees have already seen their pension benefits reduced. They were also asked this…
As you may know, Illinois currently has a pension debt of seventy billion dollars in unfunded pension liabilities for public employees. Which statement comes closer to your point of view –(A) public employees should receive the pensions they were promised, despite these deficits, or (B) given the state’s budget problems, we just cannot afford to pay the full pensions of public employees?
60 percent thought public employees should receive the pensions. 34 percent said the state can’t afford it.
Following a signing ceremony in his Capitol office, Quinn also shot down suggestions raised by some that the state should go even further and change benefits for employees already on public payrolls. The changes Quinn signed Wednesday apply only to workers hired after Jan. 1, 2011.
“That’s the wrong way to go because it’s unconstitutional,” Quinn said. […]
The Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago said it has determined that benefits for current employees could be changed, but only for future benefits. Any benefits earned up to that point could not be reduced.
But Quinn produced former Illinois Appellate Court Justice Gino DiVito to back his assertion that would be unconstitutional. DiVito said he and a colleague “reached the undeniable conclusion that the pension benefits of present employees, those who belong in a pension plan, cannot be diminished or impaired. All the General Assembly and governor could do is affect the pension benefits of future employees.”
Anybody wanna bet on whether Quinn changes his mind on this topic?
It’s a decent ad, but I don’t think it gives enough information. Including information, such as the low average pension benefits, and typical contributions by public employees, might have been more effective than this ad that largely attempted to appeal to peoples emotions.
It may be a decent sized ad buy, but I doubt it compares to opposing ads. They’re every where I go, even as I type this ad to “Fix” Illinois pensions, presumably the same way one would fix their pet, appears just to the right.
Dear Governor Quinn- it is a total quirk that you are where you are- first you inherited the job from Blago and next, Brady instead of Kirk Dillard(who would have beaten the daylights out of you) was the nominee- So get over it and assume you will have the next three years to do the right thing for the State- you won’t be reelected so forget about unions and interest groups and work on saving Illinois from becoming broke and destitute- reduce expenses, start charging market rates for retiree health insurance and find some lawful way to restructure the pension plans- But for Gods sake, get off your rear and do something since time is not on our (or your)side
I’m on a bus headed to Springfield right now. I’ll be sure to share with our legislators that the public is opposed to a reduction of benefits. And that pesky Constitution, too.
It’s a good ad, but it only just scratches the surface of getting the viewpoint of public employees to the public. I think the 1 million is a great start, but they should have done this months ago. This is pretty late in the game.
Attack benefits in order to address the pension debt, does that make sense to anyone? Oh sorry that is the Civic Committees plan. Millionaires trying to reduce pension benefits for the middle class by instigating class warfare. Dispicable, that whole 95% supporting 5% of the populations benefits. I guess the 95% and the millionaires do not need teachers, police, firefighters and other public employees who have the privlege to work for government in Ilinois. What a joy that it is with furlough days, pay cuts and the blame for everything under the sun including this pension mess that was created by underfunding.
About time they did something. The Civic Committee has been beating public employees like a rented mule on the radio for weeks.
The spots are okay. They could have been much better. They should have used Real People, with Real Names, with Real Hometowns and Real Stories.
The whole, national, right-wing gameplan is to portray public employees as some sinister alien class looking to rob you. That can be easily, and powerfully, rebutted by some real folks just laying down the facts.
- thechampaignlife - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:42 am:
As I understand it, the pension changes being pushed would either lower the defined benefit or push people into a defined contribution. If that’s the case, why not allow people to change one-way to defined contribution plans such as SURS offers? I’m on the traditional pension now but, in hindsight, realize that I could retire earlier under a defined contribution plan, albeit with less of a benefit but which is still more than my current take home pay because I put a lot extra into the optional deferred compensation program. I imagine there are others like me who would switch as well as those who are just fearful of all the reduction rhetoric. Allowing this one-time, one-way switch wouldn’t violate any laws so it would be a small and easy change and every little bit helps.
Please stress that public employees do not contribute to Social Security and are ineligible for SS benefits.
- Jake From Elwood - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 11:15 am:
Congrats to the public employees for giving a little pushback against the barrage of anti-pension radio ads on the AM band.
Incidentally, I liked the second ad that was linked better than the one on the front page.
I think a poll question needs to be: Would you support legislation that would leave benefits that public employees have already earned alone, but slightly reduce future earnings or raise the minimum retirement age to 60? (currently with enough service time workers can retire at 55).
Basically what I’m saying is, I think the public would support incremental changes to reduce our pension payments moving forward. Right or wrong, I don’t know, but we can’t afford to keep doing what we’re doing.
- Yellow dog democrat - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 11:28 am:
I highly doubt he flips, and it has nothing to do with his re-election.
The changes being suggested are fundamentally unfair, and fairness is a core quinn value.
Demon@ 10:54 “Please stress that public employees do not contribute to Social Security and are ineligible for SS benefits”… study up on this one, Demon.
Yes, Demon, study up. Some state employees (myself included) do pay into SSA and will receive retirement funds from there (in addition to the modest pension provided by SERS). Other state employees do not pay FICA and will not collect.
43% of the respondents were unemployed. They don’t mention it, but I assume this was a telephone survey that was done over landline. A very outdated method of polling. Not to mention the sample size is a bit low. This poll is losing its credibility very quickly. I hope they aren’t trying to prove something…
Remember that many of the pensions the State has changed and wants to change have nothing to do with the State’s economic situation. IMRF, Police and Fire pensions are not paid by the State. They are paid by Counties, Cities and school districts, etc. The benefit levels are controlled by the State, but the locals pay the bills. Including IMRF, Police and Fire pensions in the pension reform debate clouds the issue. They should be handled apart from State obligations. Leading people to believe the State will be helped by locally paid pensions being reduced is misleading. There are other ways to address local labor costs like looking at the cost of the Public Safety Employees Disablity Act or Public Employees Disability Act, both well meaning but out of control benefits, that could be elimianted or reduced tomorrow at the legislature’s will. Reforming worker’s compensation would also help local budgets more than targeting whole groups of employees who have been promised certain pension benefits.
- Cook County Commoner - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 1:06 pm:
Whether the general public is swayed by the ad is irrelevant. Who needs to be swayed are the decision makers who can bring good paying jobs to Illinois. The state and local gov pension and retirement heathcare fiscal issue, along with public education quality, high property taxes and a closed shop mentality, are serious issues which scare away new money for Illinois jobs. I almost fell out of my chair this AM when House Dem Minority Whip Hoyer acknowleged that the US needs manufacturing jobs to dig itself out of the hole because manufacturing jobs have the greatest potential to multiply positive economic impacts throughout our economy. I thought the Dems were happy with just printing money. I didn’t know they accepted the principle that making it, not printing or moving it around, is primary. Well, Gov Quinn and We Are One Illinois, what are you folks going to do to convince manufacturers to come to Illinois to make products that can be sold competitively in the global market place? I’ll give you clue: Blindly raising taxes to satisfy pampered constituencies is the wrong answer.
Do I get out now when I can or should I wait to try and get my full benefit? Get out now but possibly pay more insurance or give up 10% and hope I can keep what I got?
What is everyone’s opinion?
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 1:54 pm:
@Cook County Commoner:
The Chicago Region ranked #1 nationally in corporate expansions in 2010.
According to Crain’s this week, Chicago ranks third nationally and seventh globally for its business climate.
Site Selection Magazine ranked Illinois 16th overall for its business climate in 2010.
And we’re outpacing every Midwestern state when it comes to job creation.
The notion that Illinois is anti-business is a fantasy being pushed by a lobbying machine that is skilled at duping the press — especially editorial boards.
Case in point: Manufacturing jobs. Those manufacturing jobs didn’t just vanish into thin air — they left the U.S. thanks to one-sided trade agreements pushed by international corporations and opposed by organized labor and their friends in the Democratic Party.
Illinois lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs over five years…160,000 of those jobs were lost when Republicans controlled the Governor’s mansion and the Illinois Senate.
What’s the right answer to bringing good-paying jobs to Illinois? Making our education, energy, transportation, and quality-of-life the best in the nation.
They ought to worry about paying this year’s bills. The trouble with all the pension proposals is they will simply cost the state more money because they will have to pay social security and a defined benefit while paying off unfunded liability that isn’t due yet.
- downhereforyears - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 3:25 pm:
@Common Sense 12:35 and 12:54, your criticisms are groundless. The sample is solid and the subgroups reflect the Illinois electorate.
The survey findings may counter conventional wisdom, but they’re not incorrect. What’s wrong is cutting the modest pensions that teachers, police, nurses and other public employees pay into and earn.
lincolnlover- pardon the speculation, I assumed the only other option besides “reduce outlays” is “increase revenue” when facing a budget shortfall. It hardly seems resposible to ask only if one should reduce outlays without mentioning that would require plan B.
Professor,
It looks like the safest category to be in right now is “already retired”. They may jack up retiree health insurance premiums and make you pay state income tax but even the civic committee says the state should not mess with retiree pensions. If they cut the cola it will probably be only for those not yet retired.
We don’t know yet what the “cost” of keeping the current benefit plan is going to be and the Supreme court could case take years.
You’ll just have to wait and see what the actual numbers are and do the math. It shouldn’t be long now.
Ad is not bad, but needs a bit more bite.
Show real people doing their real jobs: Firefighters fighting fires, and police covering their beats. Teachers trying to cope with children/students who are underprepared, underfed, and who have parents who are overworked.
Comparison needs to be made to what legislators and other bureaucrats get for pensions, for their “real jobs” and as they work to find a way to swipe pensions.
Need forensic audits of several fat-cat laden agencies in our state. Would save a ton!
- StreetervilleSnookie - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 10:04 pm:
The State’s largest union, AFSCME, continues to get raises and other luxuries while the rest of Illinoisans make sacrifice after sacrifice in this terrible economy. We need to have a frank discussion about whether taxpayers are willing to continue to support public employee unions. After all, it’s not like a corporation…public employee unions want you and me to pay more taxes so they can sit and do nothing and tell you it’s all someone else’s fault. Sorry, but the public isn’t with you on this one AFSCME…time for you to ante up like the rest of us or go the way of WI, IN or OH…either way is fine with me.
What sacrifices are the members of the Civic Committee who are underwriting the pension cut ads making. Is Ty Fahner suffering?
How many calls are legislators getting from constituents urging pension reductions?
Legislators are dancing to the tune of the business moguls who underwrite their campaigns, (yes, they gave to the Dems)and not listening to the teachers, firefighters and the thousands of other public servants who inhabit their districts.
Is this a democracy or a plutocracy?
@Reality Check- Don’t confuse “electorate” with “people who vote”. Electorate is defined as “all the people entitled to vote in an election”.
I would say that if our electorate was 43% unemployed and 71% over the age of 40, we would be in a bigger mess than we already are. So why are we pandering to this group of people? (other than they are the ones who vote)
I wonder how many of you would be screaming if you were told your Social Security was being cut? That even though you have been paying into it for many years, when you retire you aren’t going to get what you thought you would?
- AC - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 6:35 am:
It’s a decent ad, but I don’t think it gives enough information. Including information, such as the low average pension benefits, and typical contributions by public employees, might have been more effective than this ad that largely attempted to appeal to peoples emotions.
It may be a decent sized ad buy, but I doubt it compares to opposing ads. They’re every where I go, even as I type this ad to “Fix” Illinois pensions, presumably the same way one would fix their pet, appears just to the right.
- Bill - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 7:18 am:
If Quinn does change his mind that Supreme Court will change it back. The state will never see one cent of the proposed impairment.
- Sue - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 7:41 am:
Dear Governor Quinn- it is a total quirk that you are where you are- first you inherited the job from Blago and next, Brady instead of Kirk Dillard(who would have beaten the daylights out of you) was the nominee- So get over it and assume you will have the next three years to do the right thing for the State- you won’t be reelected so forget about unions and interest groups and work on saving Illinois from becoming broke and destitute- reduce expenses, start charging market rates for retiree health insurance and find some lawful way to restructure the pension plans- But for Gods sake, get off your rear and do something since time is not on our (or your)side
- superman 606 - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 7:43 am:
needs more bite!
- Burnham Wannabe - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 8:30 am:
I’m on a bus headed to Springfield right now. I’ll be sure to share with our legislators that the public is opposed to a reduction of benefits. And that pesky Constitution, too.
- foster brooks - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 8:36 am:
Funny nobody mentions the millions the commecial club has been spending on anti pension radio ads the last several months.
- PublicServant - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 8:50 am:
It’s a good ad, but it only just scratches the surface of getting the viewpoint of public employees to the public. I think the 1 million is a great start, but they should have done this months ago. This is pretty late in the game.
- Obamas Puppy - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:10 am:
Attack benefits in order to address the pension debt, does that make sense to anyone? Oh sorry that is the Civic Committees plan. Millionaires trying to reduce pension benefits for the middle class by instigating class warfare. Dispicable, that whole 95% supporting 5% of the populations benefits. I guess the 95% and the millionaires do not need teachers, police, firefighters and other public employees who have the privlege to work for government in Ilinois. What a joy that it is with furlough days, pay cuts and the blame for everything under the sun including this pension mess that was created by underfunding.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:14 am:
About time they did something. The Civic Committee has been beating public employees like a rented mule on the radio for weeks.
The spots are okay. They could have been much better. They should have used Real People, with Real Names, with Real Hometowns and Real Stories.
The whole, national, right-wing gameplan is to portray public employees as some sinister alien class looking to rob you. That can be easily, and powerfully, rebutted by some real folks just laying down the facts.
- CM - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:28 am:
The people in the spots are “real.” They all are public servants who work in the roles shown in the ads.
- Dirt Digger - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:30 am:
Strong agreement on the pension question is only 43 percent, and the question neglects to mention it would require massive tax hikes.
In other words, actual support for the pro-pension position is so low it’s a surprise they even bothered to release this poll.
- Why - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:39 am:
Can someone please explain his position… now?
- thechampaignlife - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:42 am:
As I understand it, the pension changes being pushed would either lower the defined benefit or push people into a defined contribution. If that’s the case, why not allow people to change one-way to defined contribution plans such as SURS offers? I’m on the traditional pension now but, in hindsight, realize that I could retire earlier under a defined contribution plan, albeit with less of a benefit but which is still more than my current take home pay because I put a lot extra into the optional deferred compensation program. I imagine there are others like me who would switch as well as those who are just fearful of all the reduction rhetoric. Allowing this one-time, one-way switch wouldn’t violate any laws so it would be a small and easy change and every little bit helps.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:44 am:
Quinn has the backbone of a jellyfish so he could flip flop on this issue several times on any given day.
- Why - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:47 am:
Thanks.
- mokenavince - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 10:17 am:
What has Anonymous got against jellyfish?
- lincolnlover - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 10:36 am:
Dirt Digger - Massive tax hikes? Explain yourself, please using numbers and math.
- Demon - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 10:54 am:
Please stress that public employees do not contribute to Social Security and are ineligible for SS benefits.
- Jake From Elwood - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 11:15 am:
Congrats to the public employees for giving a little pushback against the barrage of anti-pension radio ads on the AM band.
Incidentally, I liked the second ad that was linked better than the one on the front page.
- Ahoy - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 11:20 am:
I think a poll question needs to be: Would you support legislation that would leave benefits that public employees have already earned alone, but slightly reduce future earnings or raise the minimum retirement age to 60? (currently with enough service time workers can retire at 55).
Basically what I’m saying is, I think the public would support incremental changes to reduce our pension payments moving forward. Right or wrong, I don’t know, but we can’t afford to keep doing what we’re doing.
- Yellow dog democrat - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 11:28 am:
I highly doubt he flips, and it has nothing to do with his re-election.
The changes being suggested are fundamentally unfair, and fairness is a core quinn value.
Moreover its a core value of illinois voters.
- Cindy Lou - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 11:34 am:
Demon@ 10:54 “Please stress that public employees do not contribute to Social Security and are ineligible for SS benefits”… study up on this one, Demon.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 12:33 pm:
Yes, Demon, study up. Some state employees (myself included) do pay into SSA and will receive retirement funds from there (in addition to the modest pension provided by SERS). Other state employees do not pay FICA and will not collect.
- Common Sense - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 12:35 pm:
No mention that 71% of the respondents were over the age of 40. Who will be paying for their pensions?
- Common Sense - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 12:54 pm:
43% of the respondents were unemployed. They don’t mention it, but I assume this was a telephone survey that was done over landline. A very outdated method of polling. Not to mention the sample size is a bit low. This poll is losing its credibility very quickly. I hope they aren’t trying to prove something…
- Ranger Rick - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 1:06 pm:
Remember that many of the pensions the State has changed and wants to change have nothing to do with the State’s economic situation. IMRF, Police and Fire pensions are not paid by the State. They are paid by Counties, Cities and school districts, etc. The benefit levels are controlled by the State, but the locals pay the bills. Including IMRF, Police and Fire pensions in the pension reform debate clouds the issue. They should be handled apart from State obligations. Leading people to believe the State will be helped by locally paid pensions being reduced is misleading. There are other ways to address local labor costs like looking at the cost of the Public Safety Employees Disablity Act or Public Employees Disability Act, both well meaning but out of control benefits, that could be elimianted or reduced tomorrow at the legislature’s will. Reforming worker’s compensation would also help local budgets more than targeting whole groups of employees who have been promised certain pension benefits.
- Cook County Commoner - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 1:06 pm:
Whether the general public is swayed by the ad is irrelevant. Who needs to be swayed are the decision makers who can bring good paying jobs to Illinois. The state and local gov pension and retirement heathcare fiscal issue, along with public education quality, high property taxes and a closed shop mentality, are serious issues which scare away new money for Illinois jobs. I almost fell out of my chair this AM when House Dem Minority Whip Hoyer acknowleged that the US needs manufacturing jobs to dig itself out of the hole because manufacturing jobs have the greatest potential to multiply positive economic impacts throughout our economy. I thought the Dems were happy with just printing money. I didn’t know they accepted the principle that making it, not printing or moving it around, is primary. Well, Gov Quinn and We Are One Illinois, what are you folks going to do to convince manufacturers to come to Illinois to make products that can be sold competitively in the global market place? I’ll give you clue: Blindly raising taxes to satisfy pampered constituencies is the wrong answer.
- Bonsaso - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 1:40 pm:
SERS (state employees) = pay FICA
SURS (university) and Teachers = no FICA/Social Security
- Professor - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 1:46 pm:
Do I get out now when I can or should I wait to try and get my full benefit? Get out now but possibly pay more insurance or give up 10% and hope I can keep what I got?
What is everyone’s opinion?
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 1:54 pm:
@Cook County Commoner:
The Chicago Region ranked #1 nationally in corporate expansions in 2010.
According to Crain’s this week, Chicago ranks third nationally and seventh globally for its business climate.
Site Selection Magazine ranked Illinois 16th overall for its business climate in 2010.
And we’re outpacing every Midwestern state when it comes to job creation.
The notion that Illinois is anti-business is a fantasy being pushed by a lobbying machine that is skilled at duping the press — especially editorial boards.
Case in point: Manufacturing jobs. Those manufacturing jobs didn’t just vanish into thin air — they left the U.S. thanks to one-sided trade agreements pushed by international corporations and opposed by organized labor and their friends in the Democratic Party.
Illinois lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs over five years…160,000 of those jobs were lost when Republicans controlled the Governor’s mansion and the Illinois Senate.
What’s the right answer to bringing good-paying jobs to Illinois? Making our education, energy, transportation, and quality-of-life the best in the nation.
- Liberty_First - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 1:59 pm:
They ought to worry about paying this year’s bills. The trouble with all the pension proposals is they will simply cost the state more money because they will have to pay social security and a defined benefit while paying off unfunded liability that isn’t due yet.
- downhereforyears - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 3:25 pm:
It’s a very good ad. Says all they need to say.
- Reality Check - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 4:25 pm:
@Common Sense 12:35 and 12:54, your criticisms are groundless. The sample is solid and the subgroups reflect the Illinois electorate.
The survey findings may counter conventional wisdom, but they’re not incorrect. What’s wrong is cutting the modest pensions that teachers, police, nurses and other public employees pay into and earn.
- Dirt Digger - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 4:27 pm:
lincolnlover- pardon the speculation, I assumed the only other option besides “reduce outlays” is “increase revenue” when facing a budget shortfall. It hardly seems resposible to ask only if one should reduce outlays without mentioning that would require plan B.
- Bill - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 4:35 pm:
Professor,
It looks like the safest category to be in right now is “already retired”. They may jack up retiree health insurance premiums and make you pay state income tax but even the civic committee says the state should not mess with retiree pensions. If they cut the cola it will probably be only for those not yet retired.
We don’t know yet what the “cost” of keeping the current benefit plan is going to be and the Supreme court could case take years.
You’ll just have to wait and see what the actual numbers are and do the math. It shouldn’t be long now.
- DownSouth - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 9:48 pm:
Ad is not bad, but needs a bit more bite.
Show real people doing their real jobs: Firefighters fighting fires, and police covering their beats. Teachers trying to cope with children/students who are underprepared, underfed, and who have parents who are overworked.
Comparison needs to be made to what legislators and other bureaucrats get for pensions, for their “real jobs” and as they work to find a way to swipe pensions.
Need forensic audits of several fat-cat laden agencies in our state. Would save a ton!
- StreetervilleSnookie - Wednesday, May 4, 11 @ 10:04 pm:
The State’s largest union, AFSCME, continues to get raises and other luxuries while the rest of Illinoisans make sacrifice after sacrifice in this terrible economy. We need to have a frank discussion about whether taxpayers are willing to continue to support public employee unions. After all, it’s not like a corporation…public employee unions want you and me to pay more taxes so they can sit and do nothing and tell you it’s all someone else’s fault. Sorry, but the public isn’t with you on this one AFSCME…time for you to ante up like the rest of us or go the way of WI, IN or OH…either way is fine with me.
- truthteller - Thursday, May 5, 11 @ 6:04 am:
What sacrifices are the members of the Civic Committee who are underwriting the pension cut ads making. Is Ty Fahner suffering?
How many calls are legislators getting from constituents urging pension reductions?
Legislators are dancing to the tune of the business moguls who underwrite their campaigns, (yes, they gave to the Dems)and not listening to the teachers, firefighters and the thousands of other public servants who inhabit their districts.
Is this a democracy or a plutocracy?
- baze - Thursday, May 5, 11 @ 7:27 am:
the state costitution is on our side. remember the name Tom Cross he is the one behind this push to screw us. he needs to go next election.
- Common Sense - Thursday, May 5, 11 @ 10:27 am:
@Reality Check- Don’t confuse “electorate” with “people who vote”. Electorate is defined as “all the people entitled to vote in an election”.
I would say that if our electorate was 43% unemployed and 71% over the age of 40, we would be in a bigger mess than we already are. So why are we pandering to this group of people? (other than they are the ones who vote)
- teton - Thursday, May 5, 11 @ 7:34 pm:
I wonder how many of you would be screaming if you were told your Social Security was being cut? That even though you have been paying into it for many years, when you retire you aren’t going to get what you thought you would?