54 Comments - Way Way Down Here - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:39 am: Governor Daniels, Mayor Emanuel on line one. - Nearly Normal - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:42 am: So, now that Blago is on the witness stand WLS needs a new commentator on Don Wade & Roma? Daniels may think he has extra time for the gig since he isn’t going to run for POTUS. Yeah, we got problems, but we’re not Indiana. - Rod sez I'm pork - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:47 am: What’s that in your bed, Governor Daniels? - wordslinger - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:50 am: Yeah, well, he said he could beat Obama, too. He said it the day after he passed on the race — for family considerations, of course. Meanwhile, an Indy TV station recently won a Peabody for blowing the lid off Mitch’s phony job creation numbers: –WTHR was honored for “Reality Check: Where are the Jobs?” 13 Investigates’ on-going series exposing how state leaders inflated Indiana job statistics through a quasi-state agency shrouded in secrecy. “Reality check: Where are the jobs?” revealed empty cornfields and abandoned factories where the Indiana Economic Development Corporation claimed there were thousands of new jobs.– http://www.wthr.com/story/14359193/channel-13-honored-for-investigations-into-state-job-statistics?clienttype=printable - 47th Ward - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:54 am: At least he’s picking on someone his own size. Here are two guys with national contacts and lots of ambition, both with White House experience under their belts. But be honest, if this was midget wrestling, wouldn’t you bet on Rahm in a cage match? - Mark - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:57 am: IL has substantially higher overall (income, property, sales, auto, etc.) taxes than IN. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:05 am: Mark, According to Wiki, I wouldn’t call it “substantially higher.” Illinois is ranked 28th, Indiana 34th. They pay about $170 less per capita per year in taxes than we do. Plus, you’d have to live there. For me, an extra $15 bucks a month to live in Illinois is more than worth it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_tax_levels_in_the_United_States Sorry if the truth undermines your point Mark. - Mark - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:11 am: The Wiki figures are from 2007. And total tax revenue is different than tax burden. - foster brooks - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:11 am: and we dont have to hear Jim nabors sing back home again in indiana - J - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:12 am: I wonder if Daniels winds up with a dead Asian Carp in a newspaper? - For the Birds - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:15 am: “If our state tax rates were as high as Indiana’s we’d have a huge surplus to pay off all those back bills.” That statement assumes fiscal restraint by responsible Illinois lawmakers. I do not believe that is possible. What happened to the surplus in the late 1990’s? - Cincinnatus - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:16 am: Rich, Daniels proposed a temporary 1% increase in income tax on individuals and businesses earning over $100,000. The proposal was defeated in the legislature. In Daniel’s early years, Indiana financed its deficit spending by reallocating $760 million in revenue that belonged to local government and school districts over the course of many years. The funds were gradually and fully restored to the municipal governments using the surplus money, and the state reserve fund was grown to $1.3 billion. Daniels pushed a tax on liquor and beverages to fund the construction of the Lucas Oil Stadium and a tax on rental cars to expand the Indiana Convention Center. Daniels raised the sales tax from 6% to 7%, to offset the caps he placed on personal property taxes. Daniels successfully pushed to enshrine the caps in the Indiana Constitution. Despite the economic downturn, Daniels’s spending discipline has resulted in a $500,000,000.00 surplus. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:16 am: ===What happened to the surplus in the late 1990’s? === The tech boom ended and then the USA was attacked. - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:17 am: And total tax revenue is different than tax burden. If you look at tax burden (using 2009 numbers), IL looks better and IN looks worse. IL has a per capita tax revenue of $2,384.10, and a per capita income of $41,411, meaning a total tax burden of 5.8%. IN has a per capita tax revenue of $2,210.91, and a per capita income of $33,725, meaning a total tax burden of 6.6%. So yea, the truth does kinda’ suck. And yes, I understand that this is before the recent income tax increase. - carbaby - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:18 am: I pay taxes in IL and IN and my IN tax bill is always higher even with all the credits and deductions that appear to be deceiving- it never appeared to be .004 more than IL. Almost every locality with the exception of Lake County charges an additional tax. Also the cost of many services is higher as compared to the same in IL which can be equated to a use tax. School fees are very high for elementary, Jr. High, and high school. When he has cut funding in education, the districts have to make it up in other ways. The unemployment office is very close to my house and it is generally busy- many times I have seen lines out the door- in the last couple years. I have not seen job growth in NWI with exception of service industry jobs, i.e low wage jobs- which is similar to most everywhere. I would like Daniels to actually cite all the businesses that have stampeded in mass across the state line. Please do tell. - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:18 am: Daniels proposed a temporary 1% increase in income tax on individuals and businesses earning over $100,000. The proposal was defeated in the legislature. Or in other words, he didn’t cut taxes. Daniels pushed a tax on liquor and beverages … Daniels raised the sales tax from 6% to 7% And in other words, he raised taxes. - chi - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:19 am: Mark- You also fail to take into account the higher median income in Illinois. Looks to be over $7k a year. And look how much further Indiana’s fell from 2006-7 to 2008-2009 than Illinois’ did. http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/incpovhlth/2009/statemhi2_09.xls - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:19 am: There is no stampede of businesses leaving Illinois for Indiana. Rich, you’ve mentioned it time and again on this blog how Scott Walker, Chris Christie, and Mitch Daniels are liars when it comes to these tax rate issues. The roadside Lion’s Den shop is not the kind of business I’d want in my state. I’m fine with Illinois keeping Cat, Groupon, and others. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:22 am: The simple fact remains that if we had the same state tax rates as Indiana, Illinois would collect several billion more in revenues every year. - Shore - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:23 am: These comments place Illinois Republicans in a very awkward position. It’s one thing to bash politicians in your state of the opposite party, it’s another to support a politician from another state openly trying to take jobs out. - West Side Don - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:24 am: I’m sick and tired of these rubes from Indiana leaching off Chicago for business, jobs, culture, etc… The question you have to ask yourself is where would you rather live, Illinois or Indiana? Not much debate there…. - Jim - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:24 am: I find it amusing/revealing to read all these comments attacking Daniels when everyone knows Illinois has been in self-destruct mode for years. Defending the indefensible won’t solve our problems. - Jake From Elwood - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:34 am: Rahm doesn’t give one French Lick about Daniels or the State of Indiana. He has enough on his plate to worry about in the city. - Justice - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:36 am: Sounds like the casino possibility in Illinois really stings Daniels. Lashing out against another state isn’t smart and shows a lack of leadership. That holds for us as well. We do have our problems but we have a great state. We just need to pay a bit more attention to how we spend our money and hold our leaders more accountable. I never did like finger pointing and I sure as heck don’t like pitting one against the others. Only losers and whiners do that! Illinois is a great place to live and raise families, and is a great place to work and play. We also enjoy visiting our neighbors and say to them…all the best! - Cincinnatus - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:43 am: - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:22 am: “The simple fact remains that if we had the same state tax rates as Indiana, Illinois would collect several billion more in revenues every year.” We’d still be in deficit and while all of our problems would be less, they wouldn’t be eliminated. Additionally, if we had more revenues, the GA and the Governor would spend even more. They have shown no fiscal discipline to think otherwise. - Montrose - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:44 am: “They have shown no fiscal discipline to think otherwise.” Did you notice the budget they just passed? - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:45 am: I find it amusing/revealing to read all these comments attacking Daniels when everyone knows Illinois has been in self-destruct mode for years. Defending the indefensible won’t solve our problems. I find it amusing/revealing to read comments that refuse to deal with the substance of what we are saying. Daniels is lying, and Indiana is hardly the great economic state that he makes it out to be, as we are all pointing out. - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:47 am: We’d still be in deficit and while all of our problems would be less, they wouldn’t be eliminated. Huh? If IL had several more billions per year over the last several years, there would be no deficit. - Cincinnatus - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:52 am: - Montrose - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:44 am: “They have shown no fiscal discipline to think otherwise.” “Did you notice the budget they just passed?” Yes I did. The budget is balanced only if the 2.8% growth rate happens. The rate of growth was recently downgraded to 1.8%, so the revenue ultimate is unrealistic. Plus $431,000,000.00 has be promised to be added to the Capital Plan. Plus the debt service is not included. Plus the pension obligations remain unfunded. But other than that, the budget is balanced. - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:47 am: We’d still be in deficit and while all of our problems would be less, they wouldn’t be eliminated. “Huh? If IL had several more billions per year over the last several years, there would be no deficit.” Yeah, the well-know Springfield budget discipline would have kicked in and the past few Governors and GA’s would have spent within their means. - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:54 am: The rate of growth was recently downgraded to 1.8%, so the revenue ultimate is unrealistic. How much you want to bet that IL exceeds the House revenue projection? - Cincinnatus - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:01 pm: - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:45 am: I find it amusing/revealing to read all these comments attacking Daniels when everyone knows Illinois has been in self-destruct mode for years. Defending the indefensible won’t solve our problems. “I find it amusing/revealing to read comments that refuse to deal with the substance of what we are saying. Daniels is lying, and Indiana is hardly the great economic state that he makes it out to be, as we are all pointing out.” If you re-read my figures, you will see that Daniel’s has increased taxes (Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire), as I show within context, and that Indiana has a budget surplus. And for you Illinois chauvinists, I’m a bettin’ that Indianians probably same the say about living in Illinois. Different living patterns do not mean they are better or worse. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:08 pm: ===Plus the pension obligations remain unfunded. === You’re reading a different budget than I am. Also, dave is right about the revenue growth. - Montrose - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:17 pm: “Plus $431,000,000.00 has be promised to be added to the Capital Plan.” Which is dead in the water, as has been well documented on here. - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:33 pm: Plus $431,000,000.00 has be promised to be added to the Capital Plan. Plus the debt service is not included. Plus the pension obligations remain unfunded Wrong. Wrong. And Wrong. The $431M was not passed. Debt service was included. And pensions have been fully funded for FY12. But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way. - Cincinnatus - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:36 pm: “And pensions have been fully funded for FY12.” When you say fully funded, I assume you mean for the year 2012. What about the past underfunding? There was a story on CapFax that said a special session may yet be called to address the Capital Plan. - Montrose - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:40 pm: “There was a story on CapFax that said a special session may yet be called to address the Capital Plan.” Right. How to get the capital plan passed without the Senate’s $431 million add on for programs. - dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:40 pm: When you say fully funded, I assume you mean for the year 2012. Did you miss where I said “FY12.” There was a story on CapFax that said a special session may yet be called to address the Capital Plan. Correct… but that $430M hasn’t been promised to anything by anybody. And if it DOES happen, they will most likely find revenue elsewhere in order to do it. - Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 2:08 pm: Daniels sold the Indiana tollway for billions of dollars upfront. - Amuzing Myself - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 2:16 pm: = if our state tax rates were as high as Indiana’s we’d have a huge surplus to pay off all those back bills = Herein lies EXACTLY the disconnect the left in Illinois has with reality. Because they have proven year after year they CANNOT actually CUT spending down to the point of a balanced budget, it doesn’t matter how much revenue we ever have. They will ALWAYS spend more than the state takes in. You can argue if you want, but we have seen it EVERY YEAR for the last ten. Even if a miracle happened (which isn’t probably going to) and we suddenly had an influx of revenue, the legislature and the governor would INCREASE spending because “…we’ve been cutting corners for so long we HAVE to start ‘investing’ in these programs again…” Blah, blah, blah… The game has grown exasperatingly predictable. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 2:24 pm: === Blah, blah, blah…=== You should apply that to your own comment. Did you not see this year’s budget? - Jimmy CrackCorn - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:35 pm: Subtle plug for your website… well played - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:37 pm: Not sure I get what you’re saying. - Mark - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:41 pm: - The simple fact remains that if we had the same state tax rates as Indiana, Illinois would collect several billion more in revenues every year. - Depends on what state tax rates you are looking at. IN State Sales Tax 7%. IL State Sales Tax 6.25% In both states municipalities (and Cook County) can levy an additional tax, but the max in IN is 9% and IL is 11.5%. IN doesn’t tax groceries or prescription drugs. IL taxes groceries at 1% + many municipalities levy an additional tax. I think IL taxes some prescription drugs. IN & IL both send some of the State Income Tax money back to the municipalities. IN State Income/Witholding Tax 3.4% Individuals IL State Income/Witholding Tax 5.0% Individuals Some IN counties levy an income tax, the greatest being 1%. IN State Corp Income Tax 6.5% IL State Corp Income Tax 7.0%. IN Property Tax - Capped at 1% Residential value, 2% Rental & Farm, 3% Business. I assume overall IN gas taxes are lower since their price per gallon is lower. IL has higher overall taxes than IN. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:46 pm: Yes, but ours are not “substantially higher,” are they? So you spent all day disproving your original comment. Good work. Any thoughts on the income disparity between IL and IN? Would you pay a couple of hundred more in taxes if you could earn a couple of thousand more in salary? For those of you who think Indiana is the utopia you’ve longed for all these years, it’s right there. Go ahead and move. - walkinfool - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:51 pm: Having owned all or part of both Illinois and Indiana companies, my experience is that the total tax burden for companies has usually been higher in Indiana (depending on the local community), and that there are common complaints among the business community in Indiana about Daniels’ deals to attract out of state companies, that are not available to them. I know this has been a big campaign message for Daniels, (and some Illinois politicians), but there is no evidence that his state is actually attracting more companies or growing more jobs than Illinois. Also, I have met business owners in Wisconsin, who like to complain that they are being treated worse than Illinois companies. And of course many Illinois companies will say the opposite. Perhaps the grass is always greener. - Mark - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 6:38 pm: IL taxes are substantially higher than IN. Just have to add up all the taxes. For instance the IL Personal Property Replacement Tax (added thru constitutional amendment in 1980). - Corporations pay a 2.5 percent tax on income. - Partnerships, trusts, and S corporations pay a 1.5 percent tax on income. - Public utilities pay a 0.8 percent tax on invested capital. So: IL State Corp Income Tax 7.0% + IL Personal Property Replacement Tax 2.5% = 9.5% Effective IL State Corp Income Tax. That is the 4th highest state corporate income tax in the US, and the 4th highest combined national+local corporate income tax in the industrialized world. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 7:04 pm: I might just be a 30 something but it seems like when you go to campus in Columbus, Ann Arbor, Iowa City, Madison, Bloomington, West Layfette, etc, a ton more of the recent graduates make Chicago and Illinois their new residences. Sure, taxes might be a little higher but so are the wages where you end up making more here in Illinois. Also quality of life. Chicago is almost an international city. Indy is nicknamed Nap town. Listen, if you want to move to Racine or East Chicago, nobody is stopping you. - foster brooks - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 7:23 pm: hello utopia GARY - MrJM - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 7:28 pm: Mitch Daniels: “What he ought to worry more about is the stampede of businesses leaving Illinois.” Don’t worry Mitch, maybe the businesses will leave us for another state — but maybe after a few years with another, they’ll come back to Illinois. – MrJM - hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 7:51 pm: Random question: what did Mitch and Indiana do with all the money they got from selling off their toll road adjacent to the Skyway? Have they spent most of that money already too? - Cincinnatus - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 9:04 pm: hisgirlfriday, They used the Tollway revenues to pay down the budget hole and debt left from previous governor. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:23 pm: =Chicago is almost an international city.= Great Chicago’s becoming the new Danzig. Will they have their own currency soon, too? - Anonymous - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:40 pm: “Will they have their own currency soon, too?” I’ve got some Rubles sitting in a tin can that a friend brought back once from the Soviet Union. I was going to throw them in the trash, but now, maybe I’ll hang onto them just in case some Chicago beerkeeper wants to trade them for Vodka some day. - Jimmy CrackCorn - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:49 pm: Rich, I know it is late, but I just wanted to clarify my comment was directed towards Mighty Me’s not so subtle advertising of his website @ 3:33. I guess the riff-raff and spam artists come along with the recent spike in visitors to Capfax. Sorry for any confusion. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.