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Question of the day
Tuesday, Sep 13, 2011 - Posted by Rich Miller * Yesterday’s QOTD asked whether readers agreed with Illinois Chamber of Commerce CEO Doug Whitley’s statement…
It was no surprise that Downstate readers nearly unanimously agreed (”agrees” are in green)…  What surprised me a little is that a majority of Chicago-area readers agreed as well…  Apparently, most Cook Countians are aware that they’re out of touch. Let’s expand on yesterday’s question… * The Question: Do you think that one of the problems facing Illinois is that Downstate people are out of touch with the pain of the people of Cook County? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please. Also, please tell us where you call home. Thanks.
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- Thoughts... - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:08 am:
Absolutely. Generally speaking, people downstate don’t have an understanding of how much higher the cost of living is, how much higher property taxes are, how much more is paid through the sales tax, and how much poverty exists in the city and some burbs.
I live in Chicago, but am from Southern Illinois and say this as a former uninformed downstater.
- JP - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:08 am:
It is a minimal problem at most. The problems of the State are not likely solved by geographic diversity sensitivity training.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:09 am:
===how much higher property taxes are===
You wanna compare property tax bills?
- Peter Snarker - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:09 am:
As a Cook County resident I know for a fact I dont know much about downstate and think the same is true for most people I know “up here” (I answered as such yesterday).
My sense though is downstate *thinks* they understand Cook but really dont - I just generally feel like more downstaters tend to have MUCH stronger opinions about Chicago/Cook than vice versa. Not sure that means downstaters actually know more but I feel like the opinions are louder.
Anyway - I vote that downstate DOES have a better idea of Cook than Cook has of downstate - but not as good an idea as downstaters think.
- grand old partisan - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:11 am:
I voted yes, but I think this question is far less relevant considering that downstate doesn’t really have a seat at the table.
- Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:12 am:
I agree with Peter Snarker. And I’m a Chicagoan.
- Bman - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:15 am:
I’m a state employee is Springfield.
It is not just Cook County people that are not informed. When I talk to friends throughout the Chicago metro area, they are oblivious to the shenanigans at the state level. Chicagoians are in the deepest fog, unaware of anything outside city limits.
Northeast Illinoians are not told enough about what goes on in the rest of the state. Maybe they are not to blame, how can you know what is going on when its not reported to them. I don’t think reporters and writers are to blame, Capital Fax convinces me of that. I would point the finger at editors and producers.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:22 am:
I voted yes.
I live Downstate, and most of my neighbors know little about Chicago in particular or city life in general. Just one example, I know why Chicagoland pols make the gun laws they do (which frankly don’t make much sense down here amid the corn stalks), but my neighbors don’t understand the conditions in the cities that led to those policies.
- Ray del Camino - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:23 am:
Sorry; Anonymous 11:22 was me.
- GW Dunne - Cook County - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:23 am:
I won’t answer.
The problems facing the population of Illinois have little connection to one’s geographic location within the state and are similar to those facing everyone else everyplace else: satisfying demand and developing efficient alternatives to & uses for current resources.
Even the cash siphoned off for military misadventure is a symptom of that greater economic problem.
The Chamber is seeking petty divisions to help their preferred candidates.
- Solomon - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:27 am:
I’m a downstater, and the disconnect between Cook and the rest of Illinois comes into play most viscerally with the issue of gun ownership. I can’t imagine these two worlds ever seeing eye-to-eye on where the line is drawn with the right to bear arms.
- Retired Non-Union Guy - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:28 am:
Voted no. Even though I live in Spfld, got friends & relatives in Cook plus I used to work in the south Loop area off and on the past 20 years. Chicago has it’s political, union, school & some crime problems plus the high cost of living and collapsing housing values; from my perspective that’s the cost if you want to live there. I’ll be the first to admit there are many great areas / neighborhoods also …
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:28 am:
Downstate gets Cook because it is extremely well covered by all kinds of media attention, but Cook does not get Downstate (and seems to mostly not care). This is coming from a Chicagoan.
- Draznnl - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:30 am:
I’m from Cook and I’ve voted yes both days. But, I wouldn’t out either region’s ignorance of the other’s troubles near the top of my list of problems our state faces. Some cross-cultural newspaper reading followed by a statewide chorus of Kumbaya will do nothing to maintain mental health facilities, pay bills on time, reduce prison overcrowding, or solve any of the myriad other real issues we face as a state.
- Fred - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:30 am:
I agree with Rich on the property taxes. don’t even go there. As someone from downstate who used to live in chicago and cook for a few years, I know all too well and that’s one of the main reasons why I don’t live there anymore. I miss it dearly but I can’t afford it.
- Draznnl - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:31 am:
put, not “out”.
- Way Way Down Here - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:32 am:
I voted a qualified yes. I grew up in east central Illinois. I’ve lived in Chicago, lived in other states, and now live way way down here.
I know MANY people, grown-up adult people, in southern Illinois who have never been to Chicago and have no interest in visiting. They don’t believe it is relevant to them. St. Louis, Cape and Paducah are more important. Nashville and Memphis are closer, alot closer.
Now they love to complain about Chicago, but don’t really know why for sure. What they do know is they they don’t enter into the equation in any way meaningful to them.
- vole - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:34 am:
Of course I am out of touch and wish to maintain my distance but I do have some sense of the problems common to most large urban areas and inner cities. As for politics I am closer to them than I am to the republican downstate majority. Culturally, I am alienated from both ends. So, can you have a poll tomorrow asking the same question of the “nowheres”?
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:35 am:
I voted yes both days. The oldest gag in the book among many Downstaters is to blame all the state’s problems on Chicago. They’re aided and abetted by small-minded political “leaders” who jump at the chance to travel to the wicked big city and be wined and dined on the state or some lobster’s dime.
- just sayin' - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:36 am:
I’m confident that the tougher more true American-like residents of Cook will not join the pity party downstaters held yesterday.
I think this whole thing is pointless anyway. People will say 2 sides of the same town “don’t get” each other.
- Way Way Down Here - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:37 am:
===So, can you have a poll tomorrow asking the same question of the “nowheres”?===
Great idea! Then we can do “Nowhere Man” riffs.
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:38 am:
I voted no mostly because I don’t think “pain” isn’t the right word. I think most downstaters, especially those from rural communities, are simply out of touch with what daily life is like in Cook County. Most don’t have a clue and are too intimidated by urban life to understand it.
I was born in Chicago but moved when I was 3 to Limestone Township in Kankakee County. Although not quite rural (I did live across the street from a corn field), it was small town life in Illinois, pretty similar I imagine to what it must be like near Decatur, Peoria, Rockford, Quincy or Mt. Vernon. Living on the edge of a decent-sized county seat.
Because my parents were Chicagoans in exile, we visited Chicago a lot during my childhood. I’m old enough to have memories of Lake Shore Drive before they straightened the S curve, and when there were still buses connected to overhead power lines.
A lot of my friends growing up were terrified of visiting Chicago. We were in the Chicago media market, so we saw the Chicago news, including all of the crime coverage. Even though we were only 60 miles away, it seemed like Chicago was a different planet. I can’t recall how many stories I heard from friends’ parents about getting lost, hating the traffic, being afraid of crime, etc. about the city then. The irony is that most of these parents, when questioned, hadn’t even been to Chicago or made maybe one or two trips, had a bad experience and never returned.
Instead, they made their own generalizations about Chicago, its people, and why they’d never want to live there. Most of these opinions were formed out of ignorance rather than experience. And there was a hint of, if not racism, a definite suspicion of black people. Remember, driving in from Kankakee, you have to take the Dan Ryan, and that meant Sox fans couldn’t exit until 35th Street. Heaven forbid if your car broke down on the Ryan, you’d be doomed. Or so the common wisdom said.
City life is complicated, fast and disorderly. City residents lack the patience of rural residents. Cities are big, hard to navigate for the uninitiated, crowded and changing rapidly compared with smaller Illinois cities. We have our own rules and our own shorthand, mostly unwritten. It takes time to learn your way around.
When I moved back to Cook County after college, I couldn’t tell you the difference between Lake Forest and Park Forest, or Stone Park and Oak Park. My guess is many of my former neighbors remain as clueless about the diversity of Cook County as I was then.
it isn’t our “pain” that most downstaters don’t understand, it’s everything about living in urban and suburban communities that intimidates them. And I’m sure the reverse is true for those who grew up knowing only Cook County. They don’t understand rural life and don’t seem particularly interested in learning anything about it.
To me, that unwillingness to learn about our various regions and their unique character is the heart of the problem.
- Throwing Stones - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:39 am:
I voted yes, i am from central illinois. We do hear a lot about Chicago, but dont really have any idea unless its about the Bears, Cubs, or White sox.
- Coach - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:40 am:
Clearly, downstaters are by and large ignorant of the needs and challenges (the “pain,” as you say) facing people in Cook County. And vice versa.
But how is this a “problem” facing Illinois? I just don’t see it, and the notion that we as individual citizens must somehow build a bridge of understanding between the incredibly diverse communities of this state before we can possibly see progress as body is absurd.
People live where they live and they’re mostly if not exclusively interested in the affairs of their own community. That’s just human nature, and I’d bet the farm it’s true worldwide. Folks who have not lived or spent much time in a starkly different environment naturally will not fully understand that other environment and naturally will view folks from that environment as suspect. So what.
We pay our legislators to meet in Springfield, communicate with each other, and reach consensus of matters of statewide importance. That’s their job!!! Let the rest of us go about our lives, whether or not we give a hoot about the folks 200 miles away.
- OneMan - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:45 am:
Living in a heavily populated area is just different in a bunch of ways. It’s not necessarily a different location thing as the concerns are just different. For example, traffic and mass transit (metra) are on my radar quite a bit because I deal with each every day. My family just south of Springfield not as much. On the same token I suspect they are a bit surprised I haven’t really had to deal with any crime working in Chicago.
- mokenavince - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:49 am:
Yes if you live in Cook County and the close in surrounding suburbs, when ask where you live most
folks answer Chicago. People in this area support
one or the other baseball teams,and the Bears in football.South of Chicago you soon get into Cardinal and Ram territory.
To me it’s farm folks vs City people. Not strange
considering the size if our State.
- CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 11:59 am:
Nope
We have lived in all regions of the state, except the Garden of Eden-like Chambana Land, so we speak with a lot of expertise.
Taxes are about the same unless you are getting the huge tax break afforded all the farmers
Insurance of all types was a lot cheaper, but surprise, the insurers have decided to end that bit of charity.
Utilities are about the same except SPI where the city owned power plant seems to be less.
Mass transit is largely symbolic outside Chicago.
Both regions seems to have no shortage of dopes and mopes
And most importantly downstate is quick to race to the northeast whenever they need a bailout, handout or capital bill to build all the roads that taken through the vast empty regions of the state.
Downstaters get it real good.
- in Paris - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:04 pm:
I think that there is probably a real disconnect between most downstaters and Chicagoans. I have had busines meetings with Chicago participants, and one gets the impression that they think that we rode in on a load of pumpkins last week - it just seems that there is a “Chicago” attitude when they are dealing with downstaters.
There is a reason that in the last governors elections it was Cook and two other counties vs. the rest of the state.
- Deep South - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:04 pm:
People in Cook County are in pain? Gotta be ’cause of the Cubs.
- Geneseo Gent - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:07 pm:
I remember one of the Republican whispers in the cornfields was one reason to have a constitutional convention in 1970 was to push Chicago out of IL and maybe bring the rest of Indiana (minus NW Ind)in with us downstaters. But we lost!
- Allen Skillicorn - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:09 pm:
Before voting, I need a clear definition of ‘pain’? It was unclear yesterday as well.
I do lean towards Cook County policies being the source of many of the problems Cook County faces though.
- Way Way Down Here - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:20 pm:
Believing that everyone riding a load of pumpkins is a downstater is profiling.
- Baines 4 Prez - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:20 pm:
Glad to see you flip the question Rich, especially when I felt able to answer in the affirmative to both. The state has long been a bi-fricated entity, and both have significant and differing challenges, and as a result the two areas see eye-to-eye on less than I can ever remember.
- Lil Enchilada - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:21 pm:
I think most downstaters “get” that Chicago has problems too, though a lot of them think that it’s practically OZ.
- D.P. Gumby - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:25 pm:
I live in Springpatch and work in Chicago. No one understands anyone. Suburbs don’t understand the city; Springfield doesn’t understand Egypt; etc. West side of Springfield doesn’t understand the east side of Springfield. No one really cares about any other area of the state beyond their front door. The growth of the T-baggers is a manifestation of paranoia and selfishness that is (perhaps) a rational reaction to the approach taken by the Bush Admin in proclaiming an exaggerated world-wide war on Terror and the right-wing’s efforts to delegitimize Obama’s presidency.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:25 pm:
–I remember one of the Republican whispers in the cornfields was one reason to have a constitutional convention in 1970 was to push Chicago out of IL and maybe bring the rest of Indiana (minus NW Ind)in with us downstaters. But we lost!–
Sounds more like the usual drunken rant in a Springfield tavern than a whisper in the cornfield. Just who were the Poli Sci Phds who thought such a thing was even possible? In case it never came up in those high-level discussions, only Congress decides on state admissions and borders.
- Carl Nyberg - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:29 pm:
In a world where things–including government–are more complex than people bother to understand, it’s not a big shock that people don’t understand people who live different lives.
People don’t understand the institutions and circumstances that shape their own lives well. How many people can give a meaningful explanation of how a computer works?
In a republic, the idea is that we elect people who are supposed to invest the effort so they can make informed decisions on our behalf and protect our interests.
Instead, we get what we get.
- Observer of the State - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:30 pm:
In a matter of state taxes, I would assume that the largest amount of state taxes from any one county come from Cook. That would make sense because of population density and potential income.
The question is does the same amount of taxes get spent in Cook or are there other counties that where state investment or spending is higher than tax collection?
If so then state spending has to look at a two fold problem. That is keeping the economic engine of Cook and the surrounding area moving forward and providing necessary services to counties that are not contributing as much in taxes. Just like any eco-system the health of Cook and surrounding counties also relies on the health of rest of the state and vice-versa. Instead of looking at things piecemeal we should be looking at it as a whole.
We both have different challenges but we should be able to work together.
- Aldyth - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:37 pm:
I used to live in the Chicago area and moved away to downstate. We could be living on different planets, for all of the differences.
I remember rush hour and the Dan Ryan. Now, rush hour is one car at each side of the intersection so you have to wait your turn at the stop sign. I no longer have to remember all of those survival skills that helped protect me in gang areas. No crowds, a ten minute commute, and a slower pace.
A murder in Chicago is back page news, unless it is someone famous or something particularly unusual about it. A murder where I live now is not only front page news, but discussed everywhere for years to come.
Diversity consists of those who farm and those who don’t. When a coworker needs time off to bring in his crops, he’s talking about the corn, not marijuana.
Truly, we are in very different worlds.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:41 pm:
–When a coworker needs time off to bring in his crops, he’s talking about the corn, not marijuana.–
I grew up on an Illinois farm and I can tell you it could be either.
- Justice - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:47 pm:
I really don’t think the average person is for or against one community or another or one region of the state or another. perhaps those following politics see a different picture but the world of the average citizen I know is that Chicago is a great place to live and to visit.
Most of what I know of the “bad” in Chicago is what the press espouses. Listen to the press and the sky is usually falling. But visit Chicago… and you see a great city and lots of great people.
- Skeeter - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:52 pm:
The question is two pronged and I think most of the comments missed the second prong. Initially, yes most downstaters are out of touch with Cook County. We’ve all heard the stereotypes and those are pretty far from reality.
But your questions asks “Do you think that one of the problems facing Illinois.. .”
No, for the most part I don’t think it is a problem. While there are some important regional issues (ranging from things like transportation to water) overall we need to look out for our own interests. The fact that somebody downstate doesn’t know what life is like in Chicago is just not a big deal. Except on the few issues where the interests are shared, they can vote their interests and I can vote my own.
- Y2D - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 12:55 pm:
I voted yes. I’m from Springfield and I married a girl in Chicago. Her family in Chicago have an interesting read on downstate and my family downstate have an equally distant understanding of the city. They only venture in to the unknown on very special occasions and make a big story of the adventure. My children live in both worlds and enjoy the view that I do - w are surrounded by people who don’t have a clue & are out of touch with reality.
- too obvious - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 1:05 pm:
Do people live south of Kankakee? I thought it was just corn, cows and Interstates for us to speed on to get to other states.
- cermak_rd - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 1:15 pm:
too obvious,
Not as many as there used to be and that’s where some of the angst of the south of I80 crowd derives.
- Alexander cut the knot. - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 1:36 pm:
Cook County has essentially elected the last three Governors, and the legislative leaders have been from Cook County, so State government has a much better shot at being aware of Cook County’s pain than that of downstate Illinois.
- Cincinnatus - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 1:50 pm:
It is obvious to me that we should partition the state along I-294. The only question is which part gets the name Illinois.
- TimB - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:08 pm:
Yes, both days. Downstate. Human nature makes where I am better (or worse), so anyplace I am not located will be viewed as the opposite of my home. I have visited Chicago several times and probably will again. I have no idea what it’s like to live there, commute 2 hours each way on a train everyday, not be able to buy and keep the gun of my choice in my house, or have to go through weeks of red tape just to build a small shed on my property. And it’s very unlikely that I ever will.
- Ahoy - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:10 pm:
I believe downstate is out of touch with problems Cook County faces (even though I think Cook County has brought on a lot of their problems on their own). However, I don’t see how this is a problem in our State yet. Has there been something downstate’s have done to impact Cook County residents?
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:11 pm:
–not be able to buy and keep the gun of my choice in my house,–
No longer the case.
- TwoFeetThick - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:17 pm:
Observer of the State re: taxes
The Legislative Research Unit puts out a publication called the County Data Book. You can download it from their website. It hasn’t been updated in awhile (2002), but in there you can find how much revenue is collected from a county, and how much the state spends on education, public aid and state employees in the county. Generally, downstate counties get more from the state than they pay in taxes. Cook County, in a big time way, pays way more in taxes then it receives in state expenditures.
These numbers aren’t totally comprehensive (for example, road spending, member projects and capital expenditures are not included and, like I noted, these figures are 10 years old), but you can get an idea of which counties are revenue generators, and which counties are revenue recipients. If someone is from downstate somewhere and wants the state to kick Chicago out, they’d likely be cutting off their own legs - Chicago is the engine creating the wealth that their county benefits from.
- Radical Moderate - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:22 pm:
I’m from suburban Cook, and I agree that downstaters and those from Cook County are as different as any urban area with their small town or rural counterpart. Ask people in Georgia who don’t live in the metro Atlanta area about Atlantans and there will be a similar split (if not spit). The Chicago metro area might as well be in a different state than everything else in Illinois.
- dupage dan - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:22 pm:
Regional differences and lack of knowledge about those who live distant from oneself is a constant thru out the world. This is a non-issue.
- lincoln's beard - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:34 pm:
Downstaters just don’t understand what a pain parking is in Cook County. There just aren’t many secluded byways or scenic overlooks appropriate for backseat canoodling here. Those that exist are usually occupied. There’s no privacy, all of the streets are well-lit, and there’s too many cops driving around and tapping on steamed-up windows. It’s a real problem and I don’t see any of our so-called representatives doing anything about it.
- Joe - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:45 pm:
It isn’t an issue of being uninformed, or “out of touch”. It’s an issue of actually caring about anyone else’s problems when you have enough of your own.
- Shemp - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:52 pm:
As if downstate could really affect the direction of Illinois….
- JP - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 3:07 pm:
That Illinois County Data book is pretty good, but it is also using 13 year old data. Farmland prices are of by a factor of 2.5, that is Farmland is 2.5x the price that it was in 1998.
There is also an apples to oranges comparison going on, as most Property Tax is kept locally (I think).
- TwoFeetThick - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 3:18 pm:
=As if downstate could really affect the direction of Illinois….=
Not sure if you’re being snarky or not, but downstate sure affected the direction of Illinois when it pushed Blago over Vallas in 2002. Wasn’t positive, but we most definitely felt that one for years.
- Dirt Digger - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 3:40 pm:
I misunderstood the question, I agree that Cook County residents are unaware of/do not care about downstate and vice versa but disagree that this is a problem.
- Dirt Digger - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 3:46 pm:
I personally am barely informed of what’s going on in other areas of Chicago. City-wide stuff yes, how the southwest side etc are doing not so much. And I’m about as ignorant of suburban Cook as I am of downstate.
- Lefty Lefty - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 3:49 pm:
I’m in the exurbs of Chicago and grew up on the south side. I voted yes both days because it’s absolutely true that Country Mouse and City Mouse have nary a clue about each other’s lives. That includes the the pain of skyrocketing property taxes, crime, corruption, and the degradation of services in the City; and the pain of poor school funding, the slow death of small towns, drug abuse, and an uncertain future in the global economy in the Country.
I think the nature of the question may lead people to get defensive about where they live, but it may also lead people to do what is necessary to have the Republic thrive–spend a little time thinking past neighborhood or town toward the region/state as a whole.
Then we’ll get back to politics.
- Wensicia - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 3:56 pm:
I think the differences between downstate and northeast Illinois should include the collar counties, not just Cook. The demographics in both areas are wide apart and differ in scale. How can one completely understand the other unless you’ve lived both ways?
I’m from northeast Lake County.
- Thoughts... - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 4:12 pm:
I’d like the journal to reflect that I intended to vote No, but inadvertantly pushed the Yes button in a moment of defensiveness. Seriously though, I should’ve read the question a little better. Downstaters are just as much without a clue about Chicago as Cook Co. folks are about downstate…but I don’t think it’s really one of the problems facing the state for many of the reasons cited above.
Also…
I grew up on a farm as well and Word is absolutely right vis a vis either crop…
and…
On the “who benefits most from state taxes question” I think LRU did a study many years ago about that and found controversial results and won’t do the study again…like maybe Chicago came out even, suburbs were net losers and downstate was net gainers…maybe Rich can opine.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 4:17 pm:
===[LRU] found controversial results and won’t do the study again…like maybe Chicago came out even, suburbs were net losers and downstate was net gainers===
Correct on all counts.
- reformer - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 4:41 pm:
I can’t think of a single downstater who has spoken out against the 87% hike in tolls facing Cook County drivers. The toll hike doesn’t affect downstaters except when they come to the Chicago area or north of I-80. That’s because they have no tollways, only freeways, paid for suburban motorists idling in traffic.
- GW Dunne - Cook County - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 4:55 pm:
Though I didn’t vote I have noticed a certain antipathy that those outside of my county have for us within. Why? Perhaps they hate our freedom.
Cook County is a county with a mission - and that mission comes from our most basic beliefs. We have no desire to dominate, no ambitions of empire. Our aim is a democratic peace - a peace founded upon the dignity and rights of every man and woman.
- Lulabell - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 5:33 pm:
I am from downstate and agree that neither understand the problems the other side faces. Some of the elementary schools in Chicago are bigger than whole school districts downstate and so it is hard to get a handle on some of the problems faced….and vice versa
- Mongo - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 6:09 pm:
I lived in Cook County for 30 years and loved it. I just moved a year ago to Kane County and am a hop skip and a jump away from Cook. Downstaters have no clue about how this urban environment draws people, money, investors, and more, and how that rubs off on downstate counties and communities. TwoFeetThick said it well…those counties receive more than they pay…who does Macon County think is making up the difference?
- park - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 9:01 pm:
forget the survey….how the hell did you get that geographic data just from people responding? an answer to this would be nice….
- TimB - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 9:16 pm:
“- wordslinger - Tuesday, Sep 13, 11 @ 2:11 pm:
–not be able to buy and keep the gun of my choice in my house,–
No longer the case. ”
I don’t believe my AR-15 or my M&P 9mm with a 17 rnd magazine are welcome. And the registration process for the city of Chicago is ridiculous.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Sep 14, 11 @ 1:11 am:
park, all you have to do is click through. Paranoia will destroy ya.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Sep 14, 11 @ 9:32 am:
–I don’t believe my AR-15 or my M&P 9mm with a 17 rnd magazine are welcome. And the registration process for the city of Chicago is ridiculous.–
Dude, if you feel you have the need for that kind of firepower, you’re probably better off in a place without a whole lot of people anyway. Curious though, what situations do you envision where you live now that you would have to employ your weapons.