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Question of the day
Thursday, Oct 6, 2011 - Posted by Rich Miller * The Civic Committee has a new Internet ad about pensions that’s directed right at teachers… * They also have some billboards. This one is apparently posted at a state border…  And this one is on the road to Springfield…  * The Question: Are these ads effective? Rate them.
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- Wumpus - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 11:54 am:
no, Abe needs his top hat.
DOn’t just mention pensions as they were promised and there is not much you can do about them now. It should be reform corruption as that does nto single out pensions.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 11:56 am:
Not very effective …
Reminds me of kids who “tattle” on the other kids …”look, Tommy spilled milk, Tommy Spilled milk!”
Then someone asks, “What should we do about the milk, clean it?”
Then the Tattler says, “Did you know Tommy spilled the milk?”
It’s only effective in reminding me we have NO answers to the questions, but we sure know there is “spilled milk”.
- Left Out - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:03 pm:
If the video and the billboards are effective with me or not is of no importance. For the members of the GA and the Gov. they probably will not be too effective. As the video points out, they will be long gone when the money runs out. They are looking 2 years or 4 years down the road at most.
However, the taxpayer will end up paying the bill in the end.
- Lettuce alone... - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:06 pm:
NO! If these silver spoon elite want to steal my pension money, that I’ve earned and payed for, then they’ll have to fight me for it.
So where are the ad’s playing or is it just one of those internet ads that are produced just to get news outlets to play if for free?
- Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:08 pm:
You know I don’t see the California GOP plastering doctored images of Reagan on all their PR gimmicks. I personally find it appalling that President Lincoln’s image is so glibbly tossed around for political and business gain in a state that claims to so honor his service and symbolism.
- Cook County Commoner - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:09 pm:
Not very effective. They do little to inform the average citizen of the fiscal calmity looming as a result of the unsustainable federal, state and local government employee pensions and other retirement benefits that will divide our nation into retirement haves and have nots.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:10 pm:
Sorry … “rate them”
Internet Ad - 4 out of 10, informative, but what is the goal, flood calls to the legislators and the governor, knowing they have no plan? In 2:30 you can’t give “options” … put you can do “math” … excuse me, “basic math” … it’s a 4
The billboards - 2 out of 10. Congratulations, I have no desire to go to your website, and you are making yourself and me, the reader, dumber but stating the obvious.
- 47th Ward - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:13 pm:
Ugh, I really don’t like these ads.
First, Illinois is not broke, nor will it ever be. The well-heeled members of the Civic Federation simply don’t want to pay more in taxes, and neither does anyone else. But we’re not broke, not even close to broke.
Next, I think the video’s math on the unfunded liabilities is using the trick of assuming all liabilities come due at once, and we know that not every state employee or teacher is going to retire soon or at the same time. That’s misleading in itself, but it feeds the idea that the problem is more severe than it is.
Third, steps have been taken to address long-term obligations of the state to its employees, including the new tier of retirement benefits for new employees. More needs to be done, but ignoring progress is disingenuous.
Fourth, the ads are long on problems, short on solutions. “Call your legislator” and tell them what, exactly? If there was an easy solution, we’d have it by now. The best solution is to build a time machine and let us go back to 1960 and fully fund the employer’s share (our share) of the pension contributions over the last 50 years. Voila, problem solved.
I’ll give them credit for keeping this important issue at the top of their agenda, but I question their motives. This is an important issue and a ticking time bomb, but the hysterics don’t help bring us closer to a solution.
The Civic Federation needs to get its friends at Sidley to find a test case to challenge the constitution’s pension clause. That would be a much better use of resources than advertising.
Finally, what happened to Lincoln’s neck?
- PublicServant - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:15 pm:
Here’s basic math: Pensions are supported in three ways: Employee contributions, investment income, and state contributions (just like the state would have to do if they paid into social security, and contributed to a employee-managed retirement account.
The Civic Committee, doubling down on the recession, calculates an unfunded liability during a period where pension investments have taken a huge hit, just like private retirement accounts have. In addition, the state has, for decades, over three, been using their portion of payments into the pension, to instead pay for state programs in lieu of raising your taxes. So I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Civic committee is screaming about an unfunded liability at a point where it is extremely high due to both the recession and state non-payments.
As the markets recover, and they already are well off their low point, the unfunded liability will decrease through increases in the value of the pensions investments.
And as Rich has previously pointed out, the pensions, I can’t remember which one Rich used as an example (help me out Rich), have been underfunded practically since their inception.
A law, the pension ramp, was enacted to get the state on a payment plan to not only pay the current year’s pension contributions, but a portion, each year, of the past contributions that we’re “borrowed”. That plan, created when Illinois wasn’t a victim of the great recession, was severely back loaded, with major back payments coming due now.
What the general assembly should be doing is reworking the pension ramp, so that the payment structure is sustainable during the recession that we now find ourselves in, and then ramped up as state revenues recover. They should do that instead of attempting to make the employees pay for the state’s share of a reasonable pension. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call “borrowing” that is never paid back, out-and-out theft. Do you?
- ugh - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:16 pm:
I dont think it is effective for their target audience (teachers), but non-pensioners might find it somewhat interesting.
- Senator Clay Davis - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:17 pm:
Actually Michelle, Reagan is ours too, maybe they should be using his image here instead of Abe’s
Overall, I think these spots aren’t likely to motivate legislators or the general public. Maybe a few that are already predisposed to the tea party message and that don’t understand the state pension system, but not the average voter.
People like teachers, making them the enemy is a losing political strategy.
- wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:20 pm:
–You know I don’t see the California GOP plastering doctored images of Reagan on all their PR gimmicks. I personally find it appalling that President Lincoln’s image is so glibbly tossed around for political and business gain in a state that claims to so honor his service and symbolism.–
I agree 100%. Those who employ the Lincoln image only reveal their lack of imagination and creativity.
“You see, it’s Illinois, and, and, they’re broke, see, so how about you have Abe Lincoln, and he’s, he’s got empty pockets, see, like he has no money…..”
Can you imagine the concepts that were rejected?
- Slamdunk - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:22 pm:
The Civic committee should get a life! Maybe if they spent all that money on something more positive than attacking the middle class people would take them more serious…
- Liberty First - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:30 pm:
I doubt it will be effective in gaining additional support. Too many people are under the delusion that it is employees killing the state while the state shells out billions elsewhere.
- x ace - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:30 pm:
Billboards:
Catch Attention rating: 6/10
Content Rating : 2/10
Effective Rating : 1/10
Welcome followed by Assault ?????
- Bear Fan - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:36 pm:
The teacher video is awful. She comes across as smarmy and shrill and not empathetic whatsoever.
- Roadiepig - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:44 pm:
47th Ward and PublicServant- 100% what you said…
- PublicServant - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:46 pm:
-”The teacher video is awful. She comes across as smarmy and shrill and not empathetic whatsoever.”
Perfectly representing the plutocrats on the Civic Committee behind the video.
- Spliff` - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:47 pm:
So the Big Business types that fund the “Civic Federation” and Adam what’s his names group don’t want state employees and teachers to their due pensions that they have dutifully paid into … is it because a number of these people and organizations are the same ones who closed up shop and cost my father his pension?
- shore - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:50 pm:
The ads are fine. The message that people care about though right now is jobs.
- Lester Holt's Mustache - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:53 pm:
Can somebody start an #occupycivicfederation soon please? If the kids want to send a message to the super-rich in Chicago, there is a perfect place to start.
- PublicServant - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 12:53 pm:
Exactly right Spliff. Not only did they take away your father’s pension, they’re now saying that since we screwed the middle class private sector out of their pensions, why should the middle class public sector employees not be screwed too. A classic race to the bottom. And they’re trying to turn the middle class private sector against the middle class public sector too. But that’s not class warfare. It’s only class warfare when the middle class asks the rich to pay their fair share of revenues. Get it?
- wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 1:03 pm:
Check out the lineup on the Civic Committee:
–You’ve got officers of bailed-out banks who have been in a rush to illegally foreclose folks out of their homes;
– you’ve got officers of CME, CBOE, Motorola, and Sears, all looking for a taxpayer handout;
– you’ve got a Duchossis, always with a hand out for their racetrack and a piece of the slot machine action.
– and you’ve got the big cheerleader for screwing people out of their pensions, Tribune Co., the folks who wrecked their employees’ retirement savings when they stole their ESOP while driving the company into bankruptcy.
And they’ll all tell you that the country is going down the tubes because of public employee pensions. What’s crazy is the number of people who buy that ignorant nonsense. It’s lunacy.
There weren’t just hippie wannabes down on Wall Street yesterday. There were hardhats and suits and ties. About time.
- Plutocrat03 - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 1:20 pm:
Looks like there are a lot of ostriches here regarding the future of state pensions. Make no mistake about it there is a long term problem looming on the horizon.
Lets go back to the funding mechanism for the pensions.
Teachers - number of teachers projected to be stable of slightly declining. Revenue from this source should be flat to slightly increasing.
State - Revenues are highly stressed, with luck we will pull out of the recession, but the creative minds of the legislature will find ways to spend new money faster than the revenues will grow. Borrowing will not be an option after some time.
Investments - The kinds of investments suitable for a retirement fund will not produce double digit profits over time. Short of a roulette wheel, investments will not close the revenue gap.
The Illinois way seems to be to kick the can down the road. You can do that at the peril of your future pensioners. I would like to start fixing the problem now.
- Ahoy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 1:34 pm:
The video is really bad; the actress has an affectation that came off poorly. It could have been much better.
I do enjoy the comments from people on here who think we’re not broke. Our pension obligations are taking nearly 20% of our state operating budget and our back log of unpaid bills represents about 22% of our yearly state operating budget… what’s your definition of broke? Maybe you can split hairs on the word broke, but we’re in a fiscal train wreck…
- Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:01 pm:
If she were really a teacher and really that smug, how many times a week do you think her house would get TPed … by other teachers?
- OneMan - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:05 pm:
Ok, for everyone complaining here, are they wrong?
Is the teachers pension fund fully funded? Is it close to fully funded? Are their numbers wrong? Will people in Illinois agree that 50% of all tax revenue (assuming that is right) should go to retirement benefits?
You may not like the messenger, you may feel they are out to jerk you over, they may very well be out to jerk you over, but do you feel the problem does not exist?
I want you to have your pension too, really, but it seems to me people need to actually start really doing something about this problem instead of kicking it down the road.
As for rating the ad, I give it about an 8
- OneMan - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:07 pm:
PublicServant and Spliff, if there isn’t any money in the state kitty, you are not getting your pension. Constitution or not, if the state ends up having to put 50% of state revenue into pension payments, it isn’t going to happen. Period.
- OneMan - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:14 pm:
Responsa
Dancing Monkey
Bet you didn’t expect that, did you?
- Justice - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:15 pm:
Loser ad all around. All negative, shifting responsibility, misassigning blame, and making Illinois and Abe out to be buffoons.
Perhaps she should leave Illinois…might actually be from Indiana anyway.
Our problem is and has been the way our legislature permitted the state not to fund their share. Now we blame others for State Government and the legislator’s misdeeds.
When in doubt, blame someone else, anyone else, in particular the public employees. We’ll make them the culprit. Yeah, it’s their fault.
- Wensicia - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:18 pm:
Is she trying to scare teachers or the taxpayers stuck bailing out the system? Either way, this ad rates zero for me. Although the politicians who caused this pension mess decades in the making may get a good laugh out of it.
- Lester Holt's Mustache - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:18 pm:
Yes, Illinois is “broke” - at least by my definition of the word. But I don’t know that Illinois is broke because public employees are not paying enough into the retirement system. I think it’s mostly because our legislators and governors, many of whom have probably taken a bunch of campaign cash from this very same people, skipped the scheduled payments they were supposed to make and used that money elsewhere.
- Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:19 pm:
The presentation in the ad is disingenuous. Yes, today’s teachers contributions are going to fund the pensions of those currently retired. that’s how the pensions work. It’s like saying my social security deduction is paying for some grandma’s social security. Yeah. that’s how the entire system is structured.
And while the unfunded liability is a real problem it is also an exercise in accounting predictions that bases a figure on what would happen if EVERYONE opted for retirement tomorrow, or if the entire public school system ceased to exist and all the retirements came due, some sort of TRS rapture.
The true financial problem is the state’s struggle in catching up on all the payments it (as opposed to the teachers) skipped for years and years and years.
This ad seeks to pit today’s young teachers against today’s old teachers and already retired teachers. It’s nice to see that the Civic Fed can play class warfare too, they just play it with someone else’s classes.
- teach - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:22 pm:
Any teacher who is dumb enough to fall for that Web video should not be allowed in a classroom.
Dear lawmaker,
Please cut my pension to save the golden parachutes!
- Frank - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:26 pm:
I’ve always found the Abe bit eye-catching and therefore very effective.
I don’t get the video. The actress is good and the message is pretty strong, but whom the hell are they targeting? Teachers, right? Seems they are trying to convince rank-and-file educators to go against their union leadership (and own economic self interest,) and support the proposed pension reform bill, which will boost their pension contribution 50 percent to start, and probably 100 percent in 3 to 6 years.
The Civic Committee should be concentrating their fire on more persuadable audiences.
It makes me wonder if the pin-stripped “reformers” have developed a strange obsession with fighting the teachers’ unions. How else do you explain this piece?
- Mark - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:37 pm:
I give the ads 5 out of 10, with 10 being best. We need more meaningful information on the video. For instance the video could over this scenario. The Teachers Retirement System (TRS) is the pension fund which covers teachers outside Chicago. It’s designed so the State of IL is the largest contributor, followed by the teachers at 9.4%, followed by the school district at .58%, adding any fund investment or loss but it’s defined benefit rate of return is 8.5% so anything under an 8.5% rate or return is covered by the State of Illinois. But there are loopholes. According to the Illinois State Board of Education, 64% of school districts considered retirement to be board paid as of 2010. So the Board (school district) pays all or most of the teacher’s pension contribution in 64% of school districts as a result of collective bargaining. To summarize, in 64% of IL public school districts in 2010, the State of IL contributes 9.4%+, the school district contributes all or most of the teacher’s 9.4%, and the school district contributes .58%. The end result is that in2010, in 64% of IL school districts, the state and school district contributed 9.4% + 9.4% + .58% = 19.38%, and the teacher contributed little to nothing.
What are some of the perks teachers enjoy?
Many district grant 6% salary increases each of an employees last 4 years of retirement.
The 6% is reformed in that it was previously 20% annual salary increases over 3 years with no penalty.
3% annual pension cost of living allowance (COLA) increases for retirees, which is reformed for future employees but not current employees or retirees.
State of IL contribution comes up with any pension fund gains under 8.5%.
In most districts teachers can exchange 2 years of accumulated for 2 years of service credit and retire 2 years early
When did this begin? Jim Thompson signed the Illinois Education Labor Relations Act (IELRA) in 1983, and it covers public education. This was in exchange for teacher campaign contributes and votes. Other state employees are covered by the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act (IPLRA). Since that time teacher pay, benefits, and perks have increased substantially in suburban Chicago school districts. Annual pay increases of 6, 8, and even 10% per year are common in that time period.
The end result? A not uncommon scenario has a suburban Chicago teacher who retired in 2010, started teaching at 21, worked 35 years till retirement at age 56, BUT, exchanges 2 years unused sick pay for 2 years of service credit, SO retires at age 54, was earning over $100,000 upon retirement, earning $75,000 pensions which increases 3% per year until death, and upon death, if their spouse is still surviving, their spouse gets death benefits. The pension protection clause enacted in 1970 guarantees that pension cannot be diminished or impaired. That clause means all these perks can be added over the years, but if they become unaffordable, they can’t be taken away.
Teachers deserve a fair pension not an overly generous pension received in exchange for campaign contributions and votes which takes money away from educating children.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:39 pm:
I think I saw that “teacher” on a reality show about dating a millionaire. hmmmm, coincidence?
- Retired Non-Union Guy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:51 pm:
I’m going against the grain of most commentators so far, but I say its a pretty effective video. Give it an 8.
I think a lot of us here are too close / know too much about the pension systems and problems. We have preconceived villains and solutions. Step back, forget what you know, blank out your mind, and then watch the video.
The message I came away with is: if I’m a teacher just starting out, I won’t have a pension … so why should I pay into the pension system? Maybe I should bail out of the pension system if I could. Maybe I should quit teaching and get a job somewhere else? Maybe I should move to another State in better shape if I want to keep being a teacher?.
If that is the message that gets across to the teachers and they believe it, there will be a major shortage of teachers in this State. It’s very shortsighted by the Civic Club; their businesses need well educated employees and less teachers isn’t the way to get them. Or maybe for employees they just want dumb zombies who can follow orders while working part time for no benefits? Either way, not smart.
Now if I’m just John Q Public, the message I get is the greedy teachers are going to take all the State’s money just to pay their pensions. The more subtle implied message is the only way the State will be able to pay for anything else is raise taxes. We better call our legislators and tell them to do something about the greedy teachers.
Now if I view it with what I know about the pension systems, they play a bit fast and loose with the numbers. It starts out talking about TRS only but morphs to all the systems when tossing out the 50% consumption by pensions. It also doesn’t mention the fact TRS annuitants don’t get SS so the State has a “savings” from not paying the SS contribution. And it fails to lay the blame squarely where it belongs, the underfunding and the decreased investment portfolio due to the recession. But informed citizens that know the facts aren’t the target of this video …
- reformer - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 2:57 pm:
Mark
The district pickups of teacher pension payments were negotiated in lieu of pay raises. If you oppose the pickup, then do you support boosting salaries by the same amount? Just askin.
- Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:15 pm:
Retired,
Keep in mind, the newest of the new teachers just started in a second, lower tier of pension benefits and was told they had to because it was needed to ensure they’d have a pension decades from now when they are looking to retire.
So who exactly is the ad playing to? Certainly not veteran teachers and certainly not the freshmen teachers.
- TRS Public Information Officer - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:19 pm:
This is a very slick and well-produced video that uses out–of-date information without the proper context to paint a false picture of Teachers’ Retirement System and the strnegth of teacher pensions in Illinois.
TRS will be around for decades and all retirees will get paid their pensions.
The statistics “Illinois is Broke” depends on in this ad are not current. For instance, they quote the TRS assets at $31 billion. TRS released a news release in August that said total assets at the end of FY 2011 were $37 billion.
They cleverly wrote the script to make it sound like the System’s unfunded libability must be paid all at once. Not true.
What “IIB” doesn’t say in this piece is that TRS has carried an unfunded liability since at least 1953 and has never missed a pension check. The TRS liability is composed of what the System owes current retirees AND active techers who have yet to retire. But that total liability - funded or unfunded - never comes due at one point in time because active teachers can’t collect their pensions until they retire. The total is paid out gradually over decades.
How much of its current total $80 billion liability does TRS have to pay out in fiscal year 2012? $4.5 billion. How much did TRS pay out last year in benefits? $4.1 billion. What were total revenues in FY 2010 and FY 2011? $17.3 billion. Again, total assets are $37 billion.
The math is easy. TRS is not going broke. The System is in debt, but has been in debt for almost 60 years because the state for decades has not contributed all that is needed to reach the magic status of “full funding.” TRS is not broke and every retired teacher is going to get their checks, in full and on time.
- Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:21 pm:
And before everyone starts counting the tax savings from reduced pensions, this unfortunately overlooked story deserves a read.
http://www.rrstar.com/news/x18
82983039/Report-Illinois-pension-
bill-may-cut-too-deep-for-teachers
- Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:24 pm:
Maybe the audience isn’t you. Maybe it’s the 35 year old teachers who have every right to be concerned. This is just the flip side of the coin of all the rhetoric they’ve been fed from their Union leaders. Kudos to the Civic Committee for shining a light on this crisis.
- Retired Non-Union Guy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:32 pm:
OneMan,
The pension will be there. The State Constitution uses word for word Federal Contract language. It’s an enforceable contract under Federal law. If Federal contract law isn’t enforceable, the entire system of law and the commerce based on it in this country will cease to exist.
While this exact circumstance / case has never been tested in Federal court (and the Fed’s won’t want to be in the middle of it if they can figure a way to avoid it), somewhat similar contract law cases with non-federal government entities have been found enforceable at the Federal level.
If it ever comes to not paying the pensions, it will be in court instantly, if not before the actual default. The big question, if that day ever comes and assuming a win for the contractee, is what a Federal court would order: a Federal court could send it back to the State courts to resolve funding issues (most likely) who most likely will then punt it back to the legislature (due to separation of powers issues) or (highly unlikely) the Federal court could order a specific remedy, such as a tax increase dedicated to paying only the pension judgment.
Whatever happens on that future date, it will likely be left to the State legislature to resolve it … since they have the power to levy taxes.
- walkinfool - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:36 pm:
I have always found TRS officers to be accurate and non-partisan when they tell us the real situation of that pension system, as above 3:19PM. I have tried and tried to give Msall and Civic the benefit of the doubt, but their numbers have been so wrong, over and over again, that I simply cannot take them seriously anymore. No one should pay any attention to them until they provide accurate and reasonable statements of fact. They’re right, it is simple arithmetic, and they fail.
- Ahoy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:40 pm:
What the TRS PIO has ignored is the financial shape of the state and it’s ability to contribute to the the pension funds, including TRS. Other than that, I appreciate their comments and insights on the TRS fund, but it’s not just about the fund, it’s about the State budget.
Maybe we need to recalculate what we actually need to fund the pension systems at for them to keep sustainable, instead of fully funded.
- Sunny Day - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:44 pm:
Frankly, I think these ads work. Contrary to other things I have seen that speak over you - this gets straight to the point. I get it. No fancy speak, no mumbo-jumbo. Just the facts. and it works.
- Retired Non-Union Guy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:45 pm:
walkinfool,
The Civic Committee can be (and are) wrong all they want on this subject, but as long as they have the power of the press on their side, they’re going to win the battle to shape hearts and minds. You don’t often win battles with people who own media or can buy it … as some elections the last several years have proven, a simplistic but nonfactual message will beat the truth every time. Unions like AFSCME need to be matching the ads at least dollar for dollar, pointing out the discrepancies …
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 3:49 pm:
===it’s not just about the fund, it’s about the State budget.===
Agreed, and while state contributions will rise, the scheduled increases aren’t as big as the civic committee wants you to think.
- MeAgain - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:06 pm:
Do those numbers take in the pension reform bill that was passed that is suppose to save over $100 billion?
- Newsclown - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:08 pm:
The script for the spot divides emphasis between a taxpayer audience and a teacher audience. Classic error of cheapskate commercial clients to try and cram everything into just one commercial, instead of crafting multiple, targeted spots. This script is unfocused and the call to action is weakly defined. Even as fodder for coverage by “earned media”, i.e. TV and radio news, it is too unfocused to pin a good story around, other than saying “there’s dissatisfaction and worry about solvency using the current system”. Well, Duh, welcome to any state, 2011.
- Anon - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:08 pm:
It might not be an ideal situation, but when you look at how much in debt the state is, not much will be. Tough conversations are just that - tough. Doesn’t mean they don’t need to happen.
- Prairie State - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:14 pm:
MeAgain- I believe the pension reform bill you’re referring to only applies to newly hired state employees. As newly hired employees won’t be retiring for decades and decades, IL won’t be “saving” that money until… well, decades and decades from now.
- Ahoy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:22 pm:
Rich,
True, but scheduled increases are still large and even more so when you add the pension obligation bonds. The increases are much larger than inflation will be and most likely larger than revenues will be.
To me, we either have to pass some pension reform, repeal the 90% funding law, keep the 5% tax rate longer or cut the budget for public safety, schools and human services to dangerously low portions. Seems like those are the only 4 options we have outside of just not paying the scheduled pension payments.
- ChiTown is my town - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:22 pm:
I like these ads. We all know that Illinois is not fiscally sound, and the video/ads make the solution clear. Let’s work on pension reform, everybody!
- Retired Non-Union Guy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:43 pm:
Prairie State,
Because the future liabilities start when the employee is hired and get counted then, they can also book the “savings” now. What it means is the State has to put in a little less per employee for the people under the new plan as opposed to the people under the older plan. So they started “saving” immediately … if you assume the State is making the full required contribution for every employee every year
- Retired Non-Union Guy - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:44 pm:
The 90% funding rule is, I believe, a fairly recent federal reporting requirement. Doesn’t mean it can’t be ignored or changed …
- SuburbSlicker - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:53 pm:
As far as the billboards go, they get the job done. Any more information could just get dangerous for drivers. It’s short and to the point, as billboards should be.
As far as the “awful” teacher goes, the message is what’s really awful. It’s a hard situation to swallow whether no matter who is delivering the message.
The pension crisis has been going on long enough and it’s high time that more attention be drawn to it.
- CircularFiringSquad - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 4:58 pm:
Wow there are a lot of folks who missed a beatuiful afternoon to ramble on.
Sux to be you
Billsboards only work for folks who can’t advertise somewhere else.
They should have oured the moohla into Capt Fax blog ads very targeted and very effective.
Anybody pulled the CCCC 990 yet? Could be a fun read. Lets all do that tomorrow
- hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 5:00 pm:
Why did my comment doubting the effectiveness of Lincoln in this campaign get deleted?
Sorry if I offended anyone’s sensibilities comparing Lincoln as an icon of government to Jesus as an icon of the church. Not my intention to start any religious wars.
Just want to say I don’t like an Illinois ad campaign that makes Lincoln look so shabby so I’m turned off from even entertaining their message instantly.
- foster brooks - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 5:47 pm:
I cant wait to put my billboard on the EDENS xway for the winetka,kenilworth ceo’s, It will say HA HA commercial club millionaires i got my first $2500 pension check.
I can act like a ate up child too!!!
- PublicServant - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 8:18 pm:
Oneman, I see you believe the Civic Committee’s FUD, probably because it suits your ideological point of view. I, and others, have pointed out their lies, but I do get your point. If there’s no money, I won’t get my pension. That much is obvious. However, as TRS TIO pointed out, that’s not the reality we have here. So, absent the debunked Civic Committee FUD, you got nothin.
Keep the promises that your elected representatives made, and pay your bills.
- 12 Years in the System - Thursday, Oct 6, 11 @ 9:10 pm:
The “Club” is trying to boil this issue down to the funding ratios, which is quite disingenuous. There are so many moving parts here that the average taxpayer probably doesn’t know or care to know, for that matter. What I find interesting is that there is no COGFA analysis of the fiscal impact of the reform bill currently on the docket, which means that legislators are being asked to reform pensions without any knowledge that it will fix the problem!
I don’t mind contributing a little more to retain my pension. I don’t see that as a big deal, if I know it will be there. Under the current bill, what happens when employees start shifting to the defined contribution plan? Voila! Fewer contributions from employees, who happen to be the ones paying the “current benefits” referred to by the Club. That’s basic math.
- Mark - Friday, Oct 7, 11 @ 4:54 am:
Back to the Teachers Retirement System (TRS) pension fund. The employer match to the pension fund is greater than 9.4%. The employer match is commonly called the State of IL “Fair Share contribution on behalf of the employee”. Teachers and teacher unions often complain the State of IL is not making some, or all, of the employer match on behalf of the school district, and this has been going on since the 1950’s. That’s right. The match has never been affordable. The match is overly generous and unaffordable.
Furthermore, the practice of school districts “picking up” any portion of the teacher’s 9.4% contribution is a sneaky way to increase teacher pay as the public is unaware of what’s occurring. The district, union, administration, teachers don’t bother to educate the public on this practice after the perk is enacted in the collective bargaining agreement, and it’s the public who is being taxed for pay increase. The public reporting of teacher pay should be adjusted to take this practice into account.
Let’s recap. In 64% of public school districts in 2010, teachers contributed little to nothing to their pension, and the district and state contributed at least 19.38% (9.4% + 9.4% + .58%).
Well, let’s validate that against actual numbers for FY Ending June 30, 2010.
Investment Income: $3.680B
Employers: $.171B
Members: $.899B
State of Illinois: $2.081B
Appears the employer match (“Employers” and “State of Illinois”) was a whole lot more than 9.4% in 2010. The employer match was over double the “Members” contribution.
- PublicServant - Friday, Oct 7, 11 @ 6:36 am:
As has been previously pointed out Mark, the school districts agreed to pick up the teacher’s contribution to the pension in lieu of a pay raise. I’m not seeing your point here.
- Anon - Friday, Oct 7, 11 @ 9:30 am:
The argument that the districts agreed to pick up the contribution in lieu of a pay raise has never been substantiated.