*** UPDATED x1 *** Totally disgusting
Monday, Oct 24, 2011 - Posted by Rich Miller
* I’ve known Steve Preckwinkle for 26 years and I’ve known Dave Piccioli for 21 years. They are both my friends, and many years ago Precky was an invaluable mentor. I would not be where I am without him. But, today, I am ashamed of both of them…
Two lobbyists with no prior teaching experience were allowed to count their years as union employees toward a state teacher pension once they served a single day of subbing in 2007, a Tribune/WGN-TV investigation has found.
Steven Preckwinkle, the political director for the Illinois Federation of Teachers, and fellow union lobbyist David Piccioli were the only people who took advantage of a small window opened by lawmakers a few months earlier.
The legislation enabled union officials to get into the state teachers pension fund and count their previous years as union employees after quickly obtaining teaching certificates and working in a classroom. They just had to do it before the bill was signed into law.
Preckwinkle’s one day of subbing qualified him to become a participant in the state teachers pension fund, allowing him to pick up 16 years of previous union work and nearly five more years since he joined. He’s 59, and at age 60 he’ll be eligible for a state pension based on the four-highest consecutive years of his last 10 years of work.
More…
According to the report, Preckwinkle, 59, could collect $2.8 million by the time he’s 78. Piccioli, 61, could receive around $1.1 million by age 78.
Go read the whole thing. This Tribune story shows more about what’s wrong with Springfield than anything I’ve read in a very long time.
* We all make mistakes in our lives, and I have always been generous with my forgiveness because I know all too well how easy it is to screw up. I’ve done it far too many times to count.
But this goes beyond a simple mistake. This is just out and out piggishness.
*** UPDATE *** From a press release…
Following an investigative report by the Chicago Tribune and WGN-TV, state Rep. Jack D. Franks (D-Woodstock) announced today that he will introduce legislation to rescind the ability of two Illinois Federation of Teachers (IFT) lobbyists to participate in the Illinois Teachers’ Retirement System (TRS).
“With this legislation, we are closing an obscene loophole that harms Illinois’ hardworking teachers,” said Franks. “This type of, all too familiar, insider gamesmanship has contributed to the wide-spread demonization of our public sector employees and has put Illinois’ retirement systems further into debt. I call upon both lobbyists to immediately resign their positions with the IFT. These individuals have a fiduciary obligation to protect their members’ retirement benefits, but instead did just the opposite – they self-dealt for their own interests and harmed their members.”
- Sue - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 5:43 am:
The ability to take advantage of these so called loopholes(which certainly were not inserted into the pension code by accident) is the best example of why Illinois is in the funding mess it finds itself in- Politicos for thirty years have used the Pension funds as giant slush funds- What is hard to fathom though is how is it these private sector employees are allowed to participate in a public sector Pension Plan in the first place- Doesn’t the Internal revenue Code prohibit non-public employees accessing public sector funds? Someone needs to look at that issue
- Cassiopeia - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 5:48 am:
I have known both of these guys as long as you have Rich and I am very sad about what they have done. The biggest damage is the disservice they have done to thier members. Along with the crap that other labor officials have been doing in Chicago these latest relavations may well be what put pension changes over the top in the week ahead.
IFT needs to fire both of these guys publicly today.
These guys have become no different then the greedy bankers and corporate CEOs who have taken advantage of their positions for personal gain.
- PublicServant - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 6:35 am:
I want to know who sponsored the bill that created this BS loophole in 2007. You don’t have any info on that do you Rich?
- Old Democrat - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 6:53 am:
Union officials have long since ceased to be a part of the working class they act like they represent. Their outsized salaries and perks are outrageous to begin with and when you see their greed make them take advantage of their positions even further by these sort of actions it make an old democrat want to to take them both to task.
Thy need to just slink away with their ill-gotten gain.
- Preck Stinkle - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 7:01 am:
@ Sue- These loopholes, while unfortunate are not the reason why Illinois has a funding crisis. There is a funding crisis because the state never paid their portion of “real” public employee pensions. I’m as mad about this as the next guy, but I refuse to let my outrage be a pass for legislators to cut pensions for those of us who earned them.
- PublicServant - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 7:05 am:
As for making changes to the pensions as a result of these blatent scams of the pensions, just make sure the laws target the scammers, and not the people who have provided decades of their services to the state.
Just as there is near “universal agreement” that borrowing from business (in lieu of bonding out the debt) is wrong, why doesn’t there seem to be similar outrage against not only “borrowing” from the deferred compensation of the pension plans, but in the bills that are winding their way through the legislature that would make employees pay for the state’s “borrowing”, or force them to opt out of the pension to avoid taking an economic hit of at least a 10% reduction in their current salaries/wages that will likely increase every year?
- Quiet Sage - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 7:07 am:
This story needs a lot more detail According to the Tribune article, the two were required to make back payments plus interest. Do these payments cover only the employee share of their enhanced benefits, or also the employer share? If they cover the employer share, there is no increase in the pension system’s liability resulting from this legislation. Also, I think it is unfair to blame just these two when both Houses of the General Assembly, plus the Governor, approved this legislation.
- OneMan - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:10 am:
Wow, not a single comment mentioning fat cat CEOs yet, you guys are slipping as for…
Then using this logic, you would totally be cool with me doing the same thing since I have a semester and a half worth of credit with SURS from having taught at a community college, right?
If I paid both parts of the contribution I can get a state pension based off my private sector salary?
Sweet!
- Shore - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:17 am:
I am sure that wasn’t easy for you to write. Is he related to the other preckwinkle?
- Union - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:23 am:
A few points:
With respect to the 2 mentioned people above:
According to information from IFT, the pensions, if they are collected, will be fully paid for by the individuals and will not negatively impact TRS
With respect to union Officers:
The elected officers come into their union positions directly from the classroom and remain employees (on leave) of their school districts throughout their union service.
While the elected officers are working full time for the union, the union (IEA or NEA) makes all the required employer contributions to TRS on behalf of the officers. The district and state contribute nothing toward TRS during this period.
I know teachers are the whipping boy of corporate America, but they do a good job and any abuse in pensions is not THEIR fault. Talk to the members of the general assembly.
- OneMan - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:28 am:
Cool, so then if the pension fund does end up short, we can totally cut the pensions right and not expect the taxpayers to cover any shortfall, right?
Sweet problem solved.
- Bemused - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:29 am:
Although sad this is not surprising. In todays world “Think outside the box” is often taken to mean bend or break the rules. Corporations hire the best and brightest to have them find ways to exploit loopholes in the law. When a law is passed they go thru it with a fine tooth comb to see what it allows or does not cover.
In some minds once an advantage is found only a sucker does not take it.
In these type of situations one has to wonder, was the loophole purposely inserted or just stumbled into. Either way does not take away from the fact you hve to look in your heart and say is this right or not.
- wordslinger - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:36 am:
These two guys just gave another club to the Civic Committee and Tribbies to attack the pensions of the folks who earned them, paid their share and have counted on them during their working careers. Way to advance the interests of your members.
I think most folks want to be fair, and want to see those who played by the rules get what they have coming.
But you know what? They also want to see those who abused their positions of power and trust for outrageous personal gain to get what they have coming, too.
Does anyone in the know in the GA or anywhere else in Springfield have the guts to tell us or at least inquire as to how these remarkably lucrative loopholes became law? I don’t buy the “crazy conference committee report” theory. Too many benefited too much from these scams for their not to fingerprints, somewhere.
- anon - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:44 am:
These guys will become poster children for pension system “reforms” that will end up costing rank-and-file teachers more than anyone.
The involved legislators should be called out too.
- wordslinger - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:55 am:
–According to information from IFT, the pensions, if they are collected, will be fully paid for by the individuals and will not negatively impact TRS–
Seriously, you want to go with that?
Why would anyone go to the bother of doing all that if they were just collecting their own money?
Since you seem to be in the know, why don’t you tell us what their contributions were and how much they will receive annually. That way, it should be quite simple to figure out how long it will take to burn their contributions and when it will “negatively impact” TRS.
- PublicServant - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:57 am:
Exactly Word, and I want to echo your call for anyone with information on who sponsored that 2007 bill that created the loophole.
- Aldyth - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:58 am:
There is no shame when it comes to grabbing all of the pension money they can. After all, it’s only the taxpayer’s money.
- Bill - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:00 am:
Madigan sponsored the bill.
- wordslinger - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:07 am:
Bill, if that’s the case, Madigan has some explaining to do.
- South of I-80 - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:07 am:
It would be interesting to know what position the IFT took on the bill.
- PublicServant - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:13 am:
Rich, so shouldn’t journalists be asking Madigan what his motivation was for sponsoring this bill, and at who’s behest?
- just sayin' - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:16 am:
Our society needs to bring back the age-old practice of shunning.
Or maybe The Rack. Not sure which.
- Cincinnatus - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:18 am:
A public relations nightmare… Geesh, stuff like this makes me feel sorry for the hard working union members who are lumped together with the people who grab the headlines.
- anon - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:22 am:
rich, have you heard from preckwinkle and piccioli yet? there are always two sides of the story. i wonder if they are interested in telling you theirs. I would think your friendship with both over the years would warrant an explanation. If i were them, and my friend wrote a blog post like the one you’ve written, the feeling that i let a good friend down would be overwhelming. I know and like them both. However, if this story is true, I, too, will have lost an enormous amount of respect for both.
- Coach - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:23 am:
=== It would be interesting to know what position the IFT took on the bill. ===
Read the Trib story. It says “Preckwinkle even signed a witness slip in support of the legislation during a House committee meeting …”
- Coach - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:25 am:
=== If i were them, and my friend wrote a blog post like the one you’ve written, the feeling that i let a good friend down would be overwhelming. I know and like them both. ===
All due respect to Miller, I’m guessing these two have much more pressing concerns on their minds - such as how to expedite their retirement from IFT.
- South of I-80 - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:27 am:
Coach- Thanks, I haven’t had the opportunity to read the article!
- walkinfool - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:32 am:
This was an abuse of the public pension system, and unfortunately similar pension abuses are common by leaders in many unions.
Apparantly this is no longer allowed with TRS.
Do not the union imployees qualify for a pension anyway? Did this simply have the effect of adding to their years of service, and benefits calculation? I wonder what the net financial impact was.
- teach - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:41 am:
Wordslinger, TRS will tell you that the main part of someone’s pension is investment earnings. In the last 20 and 30 year cycles, TRS investments have earned over 8.5% per year and exceeded the actuarial expectations. TRS says that 65%, read that again, 65% of someone’s pension is investment earnings over more than 30 years. That money invested still makes interest even after someone retires. What these guys get is guaranteed money, that’s the big benefit, but the reality is, the TRS formula works if the state funds it properly.
That’s why One Man’s comments also ignore that the unfunded liability is caused by the state’s lack of payments. The Civic Committee planted this story with the Trib right before veto session to try and use 2 guys to harm every teacher in the state.
- OneMan - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:48 am:
Quite a statement, you have anything to back that up or is the Civic Committee reference just a talking point.
- wishbone - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:52 am:
“Union officials have long since ceased to be a part of the working class they act like they represent.”
Says it all!
- Ghost of John Brown - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:55 am:
The real fault for this lies with the legislators that passed the bill which allowed it. Either they knew that this would happen, which would smack of corruption and inside deals or they didn’t know, which would smack of incompetance. Either way - bad all the way around.
Someone above asked if Steve Preckwinkle is related to Toni. Toni’s husband is Zeus Preckwinkle. I have no idea if Zeus and Steve are related, but it’s not exactly a common name.
- Cal Skinner - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:58 am:
What they did was legal.
But it was not moral.
- PublicServant - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:59 am:
Is Zeus getting a pension?
- walkinfool - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:59 am:
@teach: I agree with much of what you said, and know that this is a political red herring to distract from the real solutions supporting TRS.
Still, this is an abuse by union leadership — whhere is the outrage by teachers against their own union officials?
- wordslinger - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:00 am:
Teach, keep going with that.
Given the gentlemens in question ages and their very recent lump-sum contributions to TRS, they’re investments aren’t going to be sitting anywhere near 30 years before they start tapping those pensions and burning through their contributions and any accrued earnings.
Tell me, how much do you think they’d be drawing on an annuity funded in 2007 when they finally do retire in the very near future?
The answer is oogots.
- Responsa - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:03 am:
Some in union leadership have again been blatantly caught lining their own pockets to the detriment of taxpayers and also the rank and file union members who pay dues for responsible representation and trust their officers to be on the side of the “working guy”.
Last week there was justifiable hand wringing on this blog that “we” continue to elect the legislators who have disappointed us. IMO, many union members have not yet (but NEED to) come to a similar epiphany when it comes to re-electing leadership who are in it mainly for their own pensions, big salaries and perks. (Union leadership who sat by silently for years knowing full well the state was not properly funding the pensions of its hardworking members.)
And to the few commenters this morning who somehow try to paint this sorry one day of teaching episode as no big deal, I can only say, “you have clearly lost your way”.
- Angry Member - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:04 am:
If these two guys had any class at all they would ask TRS to refund their contributions, publicly admit that this was a major error in judgment (certainly a breach of trust with the membership and blatantly unethical) and retire with the pension benefit that the IFT already provides to them.
If the IFT truly represents the interests of its 100,000+ members, it would fire both of them in an effort to regain some credibility within its own ranks. Doesn’t this organization police its own officers and staff and have some sort of policy in place to protect its membership from this kind of abuse of power?
These two guys profit, 100,000+ will have to deal with the public and legislative fallout and the IFT leadership sits back and emphasizes ‘that the lobbyists’ actions were legal and that they made individual decisions.”
Wake up and smell the coffee…these “individual decisions” have and will cost the IFT plenty at a time when they can least afford another attack on the members they claim to serve. The IFT needs to step up and make a “collective decision” by firing these two and letting the rank-and-file members know that their interests come first.
- Jake From Elwood - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:04 am:
Only six members of GA voted no on P.A. 94-1111: Churchill, Cultra, Daniels, Leitch, Sommer, Winters.
Also noticed this little gem from COGFA: “The fiscal impact of allowing certified teachers to upgrade periods of service in a non-certified capacity in TRS while employed by a statewide teachers’ union cannot be calculated, but is expected to be minor.”
The problem is who defines what a “mino impact” is? This is shameful behavior by the union leaders, but curious timing by the Tribune to run another pension expose. The agenda of the newspaper is clear.
- Realist - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:09 am:
Does Dave Piccoli also get a state pension for the years he worked for Madigan?
That would make him a triple dipper —- IFT, TRS and SERS!
- really - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:11 am:
I have a hard time blaming people for doing legal things to improve their situation. What percentage of people would not do the exact same thing given the legal opportunity. We need to kill this at the tree root and not try to clip leaves off with sissors.
- Anonymous - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:14 am:
I am a little surprised at the “surprise” expressed here. “Everyone” knows that every time there’s a pension bill, there are “windows” placed in the bill for certain people. An extension here, a caveat there, always intended to benefit one or two really well-connected people. The leaders always know who it’s for. For any of them to now claim surprise, or lack of knowledge, is totally disingenuous, which is a fancy word for “lie”.
- PublicServant - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:16 am:
Is it true they received a teaching certificate and just substituted one day? Were either of them actually teachers before this “minor impact” bill sponsored by Madigan was proposed?
- Way Way Down Here - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:19 am:
Anyone I’ve ever talked to who’s scored a deal like this, leads off the conversation with “It’s legal.”
Unfortunately, public outrage over this stuff is short lived. Anyone remember Kurt Granberg?
This, of course, will be used in the misdirect to further bash the rank and file.
- too obvious - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:23 am:
How dare they try to be such hogs at our trough.
Who do they think they are, Bill Cellini?
- ANON - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:32 am:
==I have a hard time blaming people for doing legal things to improve their situation. What percentage of people would not do the exact same thing given the legal opportunity. ==
Married people cheat on their spouse legally every year too. That doesn’t mean it’s right.
- Not in the know - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:32 am:
Someone mentioned getting at the “root” of the problem instead of clipping leaves, I like the saying, fits well with this and other scenarios we’ve recently read in the Tribune. Here’s a start to remove the GA from the problem….SB2498. Call your reps and demand they lead by example FIRST and FOREMOST before taking it out on the hard working rank and file.
- Carl Nyberg - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:35 am:
The “it’s legal” excuse is BS.
When Republicans come after unions, they use this stuff to build the political will to hurt union members.
The union officials doing this stuff are hurting the dues paying members of their organizations. They are parasitic scum, through and through.
- D.P. Gumby - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:35 am:
Does IFT provide pension for its employees?
Do these guys have any other pension available?
How much did they have to pay in to “buy” their pension?
Is the $x million they will receive by age 78 comparable with what a teacher will receive by age 78?
- teach - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:37 am:
Word… TRS won’t pay out a pension until the entire actuarial cost plus an additional 8.5% compounded interest is paid in for any back years. Call TRS if you don’t believe it. I understand it doesn’t fit the mindset you or the Trib wants to have. Easier to sling words than check facts.
One Man, TRS was FOIA’ed in the same week by the Trib and Statehouse news for the exact same information. You think it’s a coincidence that we’re talking about a 2006 bill just now?
- Colossus - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:37 am:
@PublicServant:
You can’t just up and get a full teaching certificate whenever you want. Substitute teachers apply for and get temporary teaching certificates in individual districts that allow them to sub for a period of time. The only requirement for this certificate is a bachelor’s degree. To get a full teaching certificate actually takes something like 2.5 years to go through an accredited program and costs ~$15K. I think the Springfield school district charges $80 or so for a temporary certificate. If I remember correctly, you get the certificate the same day, but then you have to wait to actually get called to be a substitute. I worked steadily as a sub for other districts in Central IL, but never got called for Springfield once. In addition to all the other questions posted here, I would try to find out who bumped these gentlemen to the top of the subbing line when I’m sure there are hundreds (if not thousands )of licensed and experienced subs ahead of them in Cook County.
This only applies for subs only. They may have kept their existing teaching certificates active all these years and just stepped into the subbing ring to check the box that lets them cash in. Either way, the question of how they even got that subbing assignment still is in play.
This whole thing stinks like yesterdays diapers.
- tberry - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:39 am:
Somehow, someway, someone must figure out how to reverse the damage done to the taxpayers by these sleazy deals.
How about formulating a law to retroactively tax payments obtained through these methods at 100%?
As a taxpayer I am outraged (as are many others); this MUST be reversed. The predominant opinion seems to be it was “legal” so those who benefit should just be allowed to continue milking the pension funds.
If a way to fix these situations can’t be found, then ALL pensions should be renounced and a new start made. I’m tired of taxpayer being synonomous with sucker.
- wordslinger - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:41 am:
Teach, if, as you contend, the gentlemen in question will not receive more than they paid into the system — no “negative impact” on TRS — then tell us what was the point of going through the extraordinary measure of changing state law and the charade of getting a teacher’s cert for a one-day substitute gig?
- Quinn T. Sential - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:49 am:
{We all make mistakes in our lives, and I have always been generous with my forgiveness because I know all too well how easy it is to screw up. I’ve done it far too many times to count.But this goes beyond a simple mistake.}
For pruposes of clarification I think its safe to assume that the use of “mistake” here, is not to be confused with “accidental mistake”, or “innocent mistake”as there is no doubt nothing accidental or innocent about what occurred here.
In addition, a situation like this can be eazily corrected by these individuals at this point, because neither is already collecting their pension yet. All they have to do is request a withdrawal from the pension plan and request a return of their contributions.
Their actions already have; and will continue to speak louder than any words they might choose.
- bogey - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:57 am:
Rich your title of this article “totally disgusting” is an understatement this is absolutely shameful that these two guys are so morally corrupt. They should be fired for their actions but more importantly every politician who supported this issue should be exposed and publically named in every paper throughout the state. Good for the Tribune and the Journal for printing this story hopefully they will follow-up with who lead the charge on this issue.
- amalia - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:59 am:
Rich, thank you for the courage to call out your friends for their actions.
- teach - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:01 am:
Word, as I said, guaranteed money. They don’t have to worry about making mistakes managing their own investments.
- Wensicia - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:09 am:
“Steven Preckwinkle, the political director for the Illinois Federation of Teachers, and fellow union lobbyist David Piccioli were the only people who took advantage of a small window opened by lawmakers a few months earlier.”
Because they knew about this “window”, probably lobbied for it, going in. Don’t anyone try to tell me this was just innocently taking advantage of a brief opportunity.
As an educator, I’m disgusted by the abuses of our union officials and the politicians they bribe with money taken from us through union dues. After 25 years in the system with several more to go, will I see even a fraction of what they’re taking, based on one day’s work?
- OneMan - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:14 am:
Yeah because only the Civic Federation can tip off the media.
I do find it interesting that you (or the organization you work for and/or are a member of) is feeling the urge to monitor FOIA requests at a state pension agency.
Any more perfectly legal perfectly fine shoes waiting to drop?
- NW - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:16 am:
I share your disappointment with this action. Unfortunately, both rank-and-file union members and the Democratic Party these two have helped over the years stands to lose the most. As someone who works in the private sector and fights to elect Democrats, this type of BS pulls us all down.
- OneMan - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:17 am:
Also again with the ‘you have to pay it all’ rule why can’t I participate?
Why is a guy who worked for a teachers union treated differently in this situation than a guy who who has worked for a bunch of different companies.
Heck at least I taught for a little while, not just a day.
- PublicServant - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:17 am:
@Not in the know - SB2498 is good, but why the 1/1/2013 date?
- Jake From Elwood - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:20 am:
Way Way…
I am expecting the Tribune to provide a handy compilation of all of the pension sweeteners in the Op/Ed page before the Veto Session ends. You’re right to point out that there have been so many political loopholes that you can easily lose count. The best pension reform that can come out of this session is a sweeping elimination of pension loopholes with pension forfeiture penalties for violators.
- Not in the know - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:39 am:
@ PublicServant….from what I’m hearing it was designed that way so not to be a campaign/election issue. I’m also hearing it’s already DOA, will not get to committee. Again, we all need to call our reps and ask why. Only 4 of the current members of the GA have opted out of the pension system. Change needs to start there!!
- Observing - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:42 am:
These guys and the General Assembly, as a whole, are no better than the Mob when it comes to manipulating pension funds. When something is worng and is in their way, they change the law to legalize their theft. Members of the GA have no idea of the ire of state employees. Enough of the duplicity and spinelessness.
- 62701 - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:53 am:
This is so very “Illinois.” Thus, it is also disgusting and expected. Does anyone in this state know right from wrong anymore?
- Loop Lady - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:01 pm:
To Rich: Yep, totally appalling. Both nice guys, but c’mon…
- jeff - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:17 pm:
Rich,
I am sure this was difficult. Thank you for calling these guys out. They need to know what people think of them. Its legal doesn’t cut it, when you changed the laws for your benefit and no one else.
- Pot calling kettle - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:17 pm:
While I agree that this was inappropriate, I would like to know what, if anything, this will cost the state. The Trib article does say, “That means a person seeking to buy years of service must come up with payments to the Teachers’ Retirement System equivalent to employer and employee payments as if they were made on time — in addition to compounded interest, Brown said.” So the employer contribution is not covered by the state.
If this is costing the state, I’ll be outraged; until the Trib shows that, I’ll reserve my outrage for those who have not paid the employer portion and are now trying to avoid making those payments at all.
Ironically, these two have more money in the system than any teacher since the state has not been making employer payments. I cannot imagine way they would trust the state with their pensions, but it does give them a personal stake when they lobby to retain TRS as is.
- Loop Lady - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:31 pm:
Yep, totally appallling, but totally legal…leadership/legislation for fat cat insiders at it’s finest.
- Sue - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:38 pm:
UNION- you are missing the point- no one is suggesting that the required contributions will be made- however the annuitants will undoubtedly collect multiples of what is being paid into the Pension System on their behalf- the bestter questionis why does the state allow these “private sector” employees of either the IFT or IEA participate in the first place- they are not really teachers
- Sue - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:39 pm:
I meant “won’t be made”
- countryboy - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:46 pm:
“Employer and employee payments”…
For years now school districts have been making token (less than a percent) contributions on the part of their employees to TRS. I wonder if the confusion between that and the state contribution is being used here to hide the actual impact on TRS.
- Pot calling kettle - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:47 pm:
==however the annuitants will undoubtedly collect multiples of what is being paid into the Pension System on their behalf==
Says who? That is what the Trib is trying to imply, but they do not provide the data to back it up. I would really to to see the numbers on this before I blow a gasket; I’m already busy with outrage over a dozen other things.
- Just the Facts - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 12:57 pm:
Wow - so these guys screwed the system on both ends. As legislators, by not properly funding the states obligation to TRS, by borrowing against TRS multiple times (and that’s why we now have a politically created shell game “crisis”), and by gaming their way in to the system after a days work.
You fix TRS by not letting our legislators borrow against it - It will be fine if they keep their grubby hands off of it.
- Rank-and-File IFT Member & Real Teacher - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 1:24 pm:
The IFT does not seem to get that they can no longer employ Steve Preckwinkle and David Piccioli. They were legally allowed to enrich themselves at the expense of the credibility of the teachers they were supposed to represent, but they are not entitled to be employed by an organization that represents the interests of educators. Let them skip off to their second homes and enjoy the spoils of their greedy corruption, but for God’s sake, do not allow them to represent the Illinois Federation of Teachers. Keeping them on implicitly endorses their actions and reduces the credibility of the IFT. They must be fired and fired publicly and immediately. If not, not only will their be big problems for pensions and teachers, there will be big problems for the IFT because I and other IFT members refuse to support financially or otherwise an organization that protects greedy pigs feeding at the trough.
- Coach - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 1:40 pm:
=== The IFT does not seem to get that they can no longer employ Steve Preckwinkle and David Piccioli. ===
Pardon me for repeating hearsay, but I’d be remiss to not mention that a Statehouse insider friend of mine happened to mention a few weeks ago, during a conversation about various folks working in state government, that both Preckwinkle and Piccioli were retiring from the IFT.
At the time, I thought this was peculiar because both seem to be relatively energetic and in good health, and also because a few weeks before veto session seemed to be an odd time for two high-level lobbyists to “announce” retirement.
Now, with this news story (and assuming the IFT guys got word of it coming when the FOIA’s were filed), their sudden retirement would make sense.
- OneMan - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 1:42 pm:
Yes, because it is obvious they paid millions into the system….
If they were not going to get out more than they put in why in the world would they have put their money there in the first place instead of just a standard annuity?
- Rank-and-File IFT Member & Real Teacher - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 2:11 pm:
===I’d be remiss to not mention that a Statehouse insider friend of mine happened to mention a few weeks ago, during a conversation about various folks working in state government, that both Preckwinkle and Piccioli were retiring from the IFT.===
Allowing these guys to retire and not be publicly fired is a huge mistake, if that is indeed what is happening. They sold out the people and the organization they represented for their own personal financial gain. They deserve no courtesy. They should be tossed out publicly and quickly and even they will surely understand why this had to happen.
- Pot calling kettle - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 2:14 pm:
==Yes, because it is obvious they paid millions into the system…. If they were not going to get out more than they put in why in the world would they have put their money there in the first place instead of just a standard annuity==
That is the conclusion the Trib wants everyone to draw, but the report has no data to back it up. The only information presented is that these guys had to pay both the employee and employer portions plus compounded interest. The Trib provides some numbers, but those appear to be the annual payments made since they entered the system. I would like to know how much Piccoli had to pay to purchase his prior years of service. (The article states he has done so, but Preckwinkle has not.)
Indeed, the assertion that “Preckwinkle, 59, stands to receive about $2.8 million by the time he turns 78, about $3.8 million if he retires next year and lives until he’s 84.” Is only correct if Preckwinkle pays for his prior years, which, according to the article, he has not yet done.
I am not defending what was done; if the IFT has a crappy retirement system, too bad. However, the Trib implies the state is on the hook for their retirement, but does not provide the numbers to support that implication. It would help to know how much each of these guys has actually put into the system, how much they could actually take out, and whether or not that is supported by the TRS’s return on investment.
Bottom line: it’s not right to let a select few buy in to the system, but: does this cost the taxpayer?
- Wensicia - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 2:30 pm:
I can’t wait to get my next IFT newsletter. I wonder how they’re going to explain this, if they have the guts to do so.
- Pot calling kettle - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 2:43 pm:
==I can’t wait to get my next IFT newsletter. I wonder how they’re going to explain this, if they have the guts to do so.==
That’s easy. The lobbyists now have a vested interest in maintaining the TRS benefits as is!
- Sue - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 2:46 pm:
Of course annuitants receive multiples of what is paid in- otherwise the Systems wouldn’t be underfunded- Defined benefit plans like TRS, SURS guarantee a level of payments(plus COLA’s) without regard to contributions or investment returns-if the Plans fail to hit the actuarial return targets the stat is on the hook- does anyone think Reg Weaver and the NEA have paid 2.6 million to TRS- Get Serious
- Bill - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 2:56 pm:
But Jack, what about the Illinois Constitution that you swore to protect?
- Pot calling kettle - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 3:10 pm:
==Of course annuitants receive multiples of what is paid in- otherwise the Systems wouldn’t be underfunded==
The systems are underfunded because the employer (the State of Illinois) has not put in its share. Instead, the state has made promises to pay. If the system does not get the employer portion, it has nothing to invest, so the deficit has compounded over decades of neglect. The multiples annuitants receive are based on the supposed return on the systems’ investments, as they would be in any retirement system. (That is why the two IFT guys are required to pay in compounded interest in addition to the employer and employee portions.)
- Shemp - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 3:25 pm:
===But Jack, what about the Illinois Constitution that you swore to protect?===
Ha, ha, that’s the sentiment I had! Funny how people can be pushed to act. 2 guys make out like bandits, reform is needed. However, 12.5 million Illinois citizens on the hook for an all but bankrupt system that’s still on a downward spiral and there are too many constitutional concerns.
- Sue - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 3:34 pm:
Pot- If the State were to begin paying into the Funds, what is needed to amortize the unfunded liability, we would either need to raise taxes beyond what is acceptabe and/or begin to cut other vital state programs- What is beginning to happen across the USA is that municipalities and school districts are laying off teachers, police, firemen and other public sector workers in order to pay benefits to retired public sector workers- Read the New York Times article yesterday about what has happened in Rhode Island- Absent more states following the lead of NJ,WS, Ohio etc, we are going to become another Greece- Like it or not, the States have made promises they are not in a position to keep and absent addressing those issues, we are going to be falling into an abyss-Unfortunately, Governor Quinn refuses to address the problem in a serious way
- Demoralized - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 3:44 pm:
I thought the same thing @Bill. Can somebody with legal knowledge explain how a bill to go back and change the rules in the past is Constitutional?
- Just the Facts - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 3:59 pm:
Sue - The numbers Politicians and Newspapers have us reading make some erroneous assumptions. While the system could be in much better shape, cries of it being underfunded were first heard in the legislature in the 1950s. Again, the problem has become an issue because politicians borrowed against it and are having to pay it back (this on top of the fact they never paid in what they were supposed to). Good luck trying to keep quality people in the teaching profession if you mess with the pension system. I highly recommend googling “Pension on Point” by Roger Sanders for those of you interested in learning more about this.
- Sue - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 4:06 pm:
Good Luck Keeping Quality People- Are you nuts- with unemployment at 10 percent, thousands of qualified college grads would love jobs in education with or without pensions- Welcome to the real World
- Just the Facts - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 4:13 pm:
Education Report by Roger Sanders is another source of information on this topic.
- OneMan - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 4:13 pm:
Our state constitution also calls on the state to be the primary funder of education and requires a balanced budget.
The courts seem cool with us walking all over those requirements, why not others.
I am being a bit snarky here but it does beg a bigger point.
- Marty - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 4:29 pm:
If they paid full normal cost for each year’s salary, plus 8.5% compound interest (TRS’s assumed rate of investment return) from that year until the date of the payment, I would concede they paid for the benefit. Somehow, I doubt that’s what the law says or what they did or are considering.
- Just the Facts - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 5:12 pm:
Sue - Quality people have options. There is no shortage of people with a bachelors degree that have no business in a classroom. Welcome to the Real world indeed.
- Quinn T. Sential - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 5:34 pm:
{Quality people have options. There is no shortage of people with a bachelors degree that have no business in a classroom.}
Just the Facts,
There is no shortage of IFT, NEA teachers that have no business in a classroom either.
Nearly half of all Illinois public school students failed the annual 11th grade Prairie State Achievement Exam, the worst statewide performance recorded in the test’s history.
Only 50.5 percent of Illinois students passed the exam this year, down from 53 percent in 2010.
Schools say the results may have been impacted by the recent statewide closure of loopholes that had previously kept poor-performing juniors from taking the test, which excluded 8 percent of students last year according to the U.S. Department of Education.
Individual local school results will be made public October 31st.
How much worse could a group of college educated people do than the IFT, IEA, NEA have done to date?
Welcome to the Real world indeed.
- No Actuary - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 5:45 pm:
I don’t fully get the numbers being tossed around here, but I think the real issue is this: The two guys paid or will pay back for prior service with the IFT, with interest, including the “employer cost.” That sounds like TRS is breaking even. However, they are paying back contributions based on what I am guessing are much lower salaries than what they are making now. TRS then eats the difference between the cost of the pension based on a normal salary progression, like a regular teacher’s, and a spiked-up, back loaded progession, like these two. If this involved a school superintendent, IFT would want the guy shot at sunrise.
- Just the Facts - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 5:50 pm:
Quinn -
Yours is an excellent point. And there is no defending a system that protects poor teachers. I would suggest we look at the way we keep score however. While a standardized test score is a start, I think we should be tracking our graduates employment after high school and or college. I don’t think a 36 on the ACT is a success if the kid is living with mom and dad when they are 25. Conversely, I don’t think an 18 on the ACT is a “failure” if that person is gainfully employed. That is the real world. I strongly encourage you to read “Catching Up or Leading the Way” and or “The Global Achievement Gap” if you think standardized test scores are how we should measure success in schools. In fact, it is economically destructive to do so.
- Just the Facts - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 5:55 pm:
Quinn and Sue -
While we are on statistics and educational policy: We may also want to ask ourselves why 68.6% of graduates enrolled in college in 2008 while the Bureau of Labor Statistics says 22% of our work force needs a bachelors degree or higher. An additional 5% need an associates. Follow the money. I would assert we need to be teaching students the skills and abilities necessary to be successful regardless of pursuit rather than using a college entrance exam to gauge whether or not they are successful. YouTube Sir Ken Robinson - Do Schools Kill Creativity for a critical and funny look at the worlds educational system
- sal-says - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 5:59 pm:
“This is just out and out piggishness.”
“piggishness”??? FAR beyond that.
Howz about: Immoral?; Thievery?; Criminal (even tho legal) - CETL?; Disgusting?
- Just the Facts - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 6:02 pm:
One last point I would ask all to ponder. If 50% of the people you meet are below average, what percentage of students in our inner city schools arrive already genetically and economically disadvantaged? We all know many parents opt for private school, magnet schools, charter schools (for those that have parents that care enough to enter that lottery), and then we have the “remainder” in public schools. This is a challenge we all need to seriously consider and look to correct. I appreciate your thoughtful discussion.
- Park - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 7:40 pm:
It’s now time for Mike Madigan to resign. Now. He should have gove with Daley.
- JimF - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:25 pm:
Sue, not sure where you get your info, but, in Illinois school districts don’t pay the pensions of retirees. TRS does. The reasons schools are in the red are many. the biggest include the millions the state owns them. the decline in incoming property taxes. and, to a lesser degree inflation increases over the last 10 years of costs like utilities have exceeded the increase in income capped at inflation.
- Tom Joad - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 8:41 pm:
Demoralized: A law passed to make what was done here would be an “Ex Post Facto” (after the fact) law and be unconstitutional. The tax on the pension angle might work at 95%.
- CEO - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 9:29 pm:
It seems to me seeing the forest for the trees is the issue is what most people are missing. The fact remains that every system has individuals who seek to get the most they can. I have never known anyone who doesn’t think they deserve more and will take the largest handful out of the bucket that is passed around. The real issue is that the Tribune is duping all of us to believe the enemy are public employees. The enemy is the Tribune and the corporate agenda they shore up. Stop worrying about two guys who have taken advantage of a system. Start worrying about the corporate agenda that has ripped off 99% of us. Ask the 1% that control nearly 40% of all wealth how they got it and get out in the streets and stop it.
- Responsa - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 10:55 pm:
@CEO
Look, a bunny!!!
- mythoughtis - Monday, Oct 24, 11 @ 11:01 pm:
‘I don’t fully get the numbers being tossed around here, but I think the real issue is this: The two guys paid or will pay back for prior service with the IFT, with interest, including the “employer cost.” That sounds like TRS is breaking even. ‘
I suppose one could argue that they have to pay the full contribution plus interest in order to actually draw a pension, and that would make then even with everyone else, but I don’t see it that way.
Pensions are meant for people who actually put in the time AND the work for the company/agency in question. In this case, the pension is meant for teachers…. those that actually put in the effort involved in teaching children day after day year after year. These two taught for a day. They didn’t put forth the appropriate effort, even if they do decide to put forth the appropriate retirement contribution.
FYI - I don’t begrudge people earning more than 1 pension for separate years of work, but each pension should be based on the number of years worked for that agency, etc.
- Lakeview - Tuesday, Oct 25, 11 @ 8:09 am:
Yeah, they may pay the contributions, but this is a defined benefit pension. They’ll get their money no matter what happens in the financial markets. That’s a taxpayer-provided guarantee that no one with a 401(k) or IRA has. It’s a ripoff of the taxpayers, and the union members who support this kind of thing have shown how little respect they have for the taxpayers, who are the ones making the guarantee.
But, hey, you got yours. That’s all that counts, right?