*** UPDATE *** Family-PAC press release…
Paul Caprio, Director of Family-Pac, Illinois’ leading pro-family political action committee, today accused Governor Quinn of attempting to intentionally hide his pro-choice, abortion on demand position from many Catholics last fall.
Said Caprio, “Governor Quinn has repeatedly stated that he has simply followed his ‘conscience’ relative to his support and promotion of the pro-abortion agenda, including his recent involvement in a lunch sponsored by Personal PAC.
“If that were true, why did he refuse to complete a questionnaire which he received last October from the Catholic Conference of Illinois regarding the issue of abortion and other social issues of importance to Catholics?” (See attached.)
The purpose of the questionnaire was to distribute information to Catholic parishes across Illinois so that Catholics could be better informed on important issues before voting.
Said Caprio, “Why did Quinn not want many of Illinois’ Catholics to be aware of his opposition to the Ultrasound Opportunity Act before they voted last November?
“Did Quinn truly follow his ‘conscience,’ or did he follow the money…that is, the $500,000 that Personal PAC has reported to have donated to his campaign?
[ *** End Of Update *** ]
* Catholic Bishops apparently want to have a private meeting with Gov. Pat Quinn so they can scold him about abortion and his continued reference to himself as a Catholic…
Gov. Pat Quinn’s ongoing dispute with the Catholic Church is showing no signs of stopping after Cardinal Francis George sent him a letter this week requesting a face-to-face meeting to discuss his support of abortion rights and civil unions for same-sex couples.
Quinn received the letter from the state’s six Roman Catholic bishops on Wednesday, which asked for a meeting with the practicing Catholic to talk about a number of topics, “the first being your personal approval of laws permitting the killing of unborn children.”
“We would like to discuss with you, both as fellow citizens and as pastors of your Church, how you and we should position ourselves publicly on this issue so you may be true to your responsibility as Governor as we may remain true to ours as bishops,” the letter said.
Quinn revealed the correspondence shortly after presenting an award at the Personal PAC annual luncheon Thursday afternoon, which honors those who have worked to support the pro-choice group. George had previously attacked Quinn for his involvement in the gathering, but later apologized after learning Quinn was honoring Jennie Goodman, a rape victim turned advocate.
* The governor, however, didn’t seem fazed at all…
Quinn did not shy from his religion at Thursday’s luncheon where some $400,000 to $500,000 was raised to fund candidates who support abortion rights. Quinn even quoted the Bible in explaining why he agreed to present the award to Goodman, who now counsels rape victims.
“I think the essence of my faith is service,” Quinn said. “Service to others is the rent we pay for our place on God’s earth. Martin Luther King said everyone can be great because everyone can serve. … Jennie has found that ethic of service.”
Quinn gave Goodman a big hug to thunderous applause. Goodman starred in a television commercial Personal PAC spent $250,000 airing in the final days of the campaign for governor, helping Quinn eke out a narrow victory over anti-abortion Republican Bill Brady.
“You took a lot of heat over giving me this award, and I hope you know I was by your side cheering you on,” Goodman told Quinn.
Had Brady won, “he would be signing one anti-abortion bill after another,” Personal PAC Executive Director Terry Cosgrove told attendees. Cosgrove praised Quinn, saying “He stands up for what he believes in.” Turning to Quinn, Cosgrove shouted down to him, “Governor, I think that’s the Irish Catholic in us, isn’t it?”
* And he even said he’d praise the bishops…
The governor said he had offered to meet Cardinal Francis George and a dozen other Illinois bishops on Dec. 16 here in Chicago. He added that he planned to salute the Church for its school system - noting that he himself is the product of 16 years of Catholic education.
The bishops’ letter concluded by noting their concerns include the “life and well-being of the poor… the fair delivery of health care…aid to children in Catholic schools” and other issues affecting the common good.
Most striking though, is their concern that in light of recent gay rights legislation, “we may be penalized as a ‘discriminatory’ institution because we follow our consciences and the 2,000 year tradition and teaching of the Catholic Church.”
Discuss.
- Wensicia - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 7:00 am:
“we may be penalized as a ‘discriminatory’ institution because we follow our consciences and the 2,000 year tradition and teaching of the Catholic Church.”
Because your 2,000 years of tradition allows you to discriminate against a certain population?
Because the state will no longer contribute funds to this continued discrimination, that’s how you’re being penalized?
- Aldyth - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 7:30 am:
Are the bishops going to make Quinn an offer he can’t refuse or will he wake up with a horse head in his bed? This is sounding like a chapter out of The Godfather.
- amalia - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 7:44 am:
growing up I heard nothing about homosexuality or abortion and the Roman Catholic Church. when did things get so dependent on those positions for them? the core teachings, you know, what Jesus said, have no reference to these things.
- wordslinger - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 8:28 am:
Perhaps it’s a sign of progress that the bishops actually want to have a dialogue with a parishioner.
Or, perhaps, as we’ve seen elsewhere, they’re going to threaten to bar him from communion.
Quinn’s parish, Ascension in Oak Park, is in my neighborhood. I have many friends who go there. Suffice is to say, there’s a debate going on within the flock on a lot of things.
There’s no compulsion in the Gospels that those of faith belong to any church, or to submit any third-party canon. That’s a matter of choice.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 8:41 am:
Quinn’s personal beliefs are in line with the majority of American Catholics. In fact, polls show support for equal rights for gay Americans is highest among Catholics.
Its important to understand where the Pope’s edicts on “marriage for procreation” and “life begins at conception” lead: in Italy, its led to a push to ban fertility treatments.
Its also important to understand that these two tenets are relatively new in the Catholic Church’s history.
- Mike D - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 8:58 am:
Quinn doesn’t care what the Church says, he only cares about being elected. That’s the choice he’ll be judged by in the end.
- wordslinger - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 9:04 am:
–That’s the choice he’ll be judged by in the end.–
By whom, you? Because you can only speak for yourself, right?
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 9:05 am:
@mike d - I think all rational folks can agree that if quinns primary concern was being re-elected, he’d be doing things alot differently.
There is very little political upside to making sure the state pays its bills to nonprofit service providers, for example. But it is the right thing to do.
- Mike D - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 9:06 am:
Um, if you don’t know who judges at the end then might I recommend you pay greater attention at Mass?
- JL - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 9:18 am:
Hey Mike D, Save the Tebow stuff for another board.
I think the Governor is showing his maturity here, he has taken the high road on this issue and it looks like it has worked well for him. Maybe a lesson to be learned for other pressing issues.
- wordslinger - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 9:18 am:
–Quinn doesn’t care what the Church says, he only cares about being elected. That’s the choice he’ll be judged by in the end. –
–Um, if you don’t know who judges at the end then might I recommend you pay greater attention at Mass?–
Unlike you, I don’t presume to know Quinn’s mind regarding his faith or God’s judgement.
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 9:24 am:
Only in Illinois can the “high road” be described as selling out your last bit of ethics and integrity in exchange for a campaign contribution from Personal-Pac
JBP
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 9:45 am:
Having said all that, Quinn SHOULD meet with George and the bishops. Recognizing that they are never going to agree on abortion rights, access to contraception, or equal rights for gay Americans, they should focus on the other issues outlined by the Cardinal to see where they might find common ground for the Common Good.
- emerson in peoria - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 9:49 am:
The hallmark of Catholic teaching is the primacy of a “well formed and informed conscience”. The bishops will argue that their positions are fully formed and informed and that Quinn’s are not. However we are all to follow our consciences not just blindly follow church teaching or traditions.
- Lefty Lefty - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 10:06 am:
Amalia has a good question for the Catholics here. Why all bent out of shape about abortions and gays?
Back when I was at Catholic school on the south side, the big scare was the Equal Rights Amendment. My mom showed me a pamphlet obtained from our church that said boys and girls would be going to the bathroom together if it passed. Yeesh.
New times, but the same old church.
- walkinfool - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 10:07 am:
BTW Rich, PQ might act like he was subject to a phaser attack, but he’s unlikely to be “fazed” by this.
- reformer - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 10:22 am:
== The governor, however, didn’t seem phased at all…==
I believed the correct word is “fazed.”
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 10:24 am:
–Quinn doesn’t care what the Church says, he only cares about being elected. That’s the choice he’ll be judged by in the end. –
–Um, if you don’t know who judges at the end then might I recommend you pay greater attention at Mass?–
You seem to think the “Church” has some kind of say in the end, so possibly a little more attention should be paid by you?
- cermak_rd - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 10:55 am:
Is this a planned dialogue or diatribe? If the Bishops wanted a private chat with the good governor, why not do it, you know, privately.
I’d be careful if I were the bishops. Quinn is, at heart, a rebel. He likes nothing better than throwing rocks at those in power. I could see him starting an accidental schism.
- walkinfool - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:01 am:
Cermak: Let’s go for a real “schism” — a Counter-Cardinal Cosgrove perhaps?
- Mom - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:02 am:
I think it’s nice when the boys can get all the girls out of the room so they can discuss what women should and should not be allowed to do with their bodies.
- Mike D - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:31 am:
I guess “Tebow stuff” is supposed to be an insult? Surely you can do better than that, or least respect people’s posts without getting hysterical. Guess that’s too much to ask for in any type of anonymous comment section. Guess I hit a nerve with some…mission accomplished.
- Montrose - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:35 am:
Loading the letter with language like “your personal approval of laws permitting the killing of unborn children” is not exactly extending an olive branch. Let’s see how far the bishops and cardinal will escalate this. Remember when John Kerry was denied communion during his presidential campaign?
- Cincinnatus - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:36 am:
Just as the State had a right to cut off funding to Catholic Charities (which I thought was stupid for economic reasons, they cheaply provided a necessary function, adoption), it would be right for the Bishops to cut off Quinn from the sacraments of the Church for his pro-abortion stance.
- Cincinnatus - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:38 am:
I meant to say “the Bishops of the Church would have the right…”
I did not mean to pass judgement, only to point out that both the State and the Church both have “rights” to do something, right or wrong.
- Dirty Red - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:39 am:
I’ll give the governor props for this one. It’s hard to stand by what you believe when those leading the organization your morales originated and claim to have the key to eternal happiness insist you’re so wrong that expulsion is looming.
- cermak_rd - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:39 am:
Cincinnatus,
You’re right. The church would have the right to do that. But they must accept the consequences as well, and so perhaps should use some prudential judgement. Polls showed that only 35% of Catholics in IL were opposed to civil unions. If the bishops make this action about civil unions, even tangentially, they risk a backlash from the folks in the pew.
- Cincinnatus - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 11:57 am:
cermal_rd,
Not to turn this into any kind of a philosophical discussion, I will only say this: I do not want a Governor that prudentially judges the laws he is sworn to carry out. I want him to only carry them out, or get the law changed. Similarly, the Catholic Church has laws, and it is not up to the Bishops to judge them, only carry them out. Both have bureaucracies to deal with, and neither are charged with making the law.
- Demoralized - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 12:11 pm:
I am not a Catholic so I don’t prentend to understand all of the intracacies of the Catholic Church. However, I do know that I have no respect for any Church that judges its members (or those non-members that attend their Churches). Following God is supposed to be a personal journey and last time I checked God was the only one that got to judge us.
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 12:20 pm:
“Following God is supposed to be a personal journey”
says who?
Catholics believe that we are saved as a group, not as individuals. Quinn claims to be a Catholic, so he’s in the group.
JBP
- Pax Hominem - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 12:55 pm:
The Bishops are right. Quinn and other false Catholics should stop using religion as a political expedient tool. Quinn doesn’t follow the teachings of the Church and that is his choice. It is also the choice of the Church to warn, then excommunicate any member not adhering to the teachings of the Church. Plain and simple. There is no room for so-called cafeteria Catholics. You either believe and follow–or you do not. Your choice.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 12:57 pm:
===There is no room for so-called cafeteria Catholics.===
Aren’t all people of faith somehow “cafeterias”? What I mean is, nobody’s perfect. Not even close.
- wordslinger - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 1:00 pm:
===There is no room for so-called cafeteria Catholics.===
What’s that mean? No room for sinners?
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 1:03 pm:
People who take public office are held to a different standard than everyone else in the Pews.
If Quinn wants to defy Catholic Church teachings, and remain a part of that Church, then he should not be in public office.
JBP
- Wensicia - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 1:05 pm:
==There is no room for so-called cafeteria Catholics.==
It’s this kind of sentiment that is further marginalizing the Church and reducing its influence in this country.
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 1:07 pm:
“It’s this kind of sentiment that is further marginalizing the Church and reducing its influence in this country” either that or political leaders who defy the teachings of the Church, yet still are regarded as Catholic leaders.
- Wensicia - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 1:15 pm:
@JP
Then Catholics should stay out of politics completely.
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 1:19 pm:
“Then Catholics should stay out of politics completely”, yes I think that is the goal of the Left (and a good portion of the Right) for a long time now. I don’t see it happening, but I think your analysis is accurate.
- amalia - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 1:19 pm:
@YDD @9:05…..great stuff, albeit really sad.
- cermak_rd - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 1:55 pm:
JP,
And how far does that extend? Should a Mayor or City Councilperson be ex-ed for voting for a permit for a PP clinic? For voting against a parking lot for a parish church?
Seems to me the CC gained electoral credibility when JFK stood up and said, he would govern as an American that happened to be Catholic. Many now feel they want to reverse that (as long as their pet issues are kept to the main by the CC, of course) and say they want all Catholics to govern as Catholics who happen to be politicians. Won’t that lead to people who don’t agree with the CC being a little squeamish about voting for its members?
- Demoralized - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:06 pm:
JP:
The Church does not control the government. A political leader’s first allegiance is to the Constitution and the laws of the land and not to the Church. If you want to prevent Catholics from participating in government because it may conflict with some Catholic teachings then that is your right I guess. I think it’s a ridiculous position.
Oh, and I checked my Bible. Our relationship with God is personal. I didn’t find the passage that said the Church was the middle man.
- Carl Nyberg - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:10 pm:
Would priests and bishops who covered-up molestation fall under the definition of “cafeteria Catholics”?
If so, the current Pope is a “cafeteria Catholic”, right?
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:20 pm:
DM,
You can believe what you like, fine by me. Catholics don’t believe what you like, just because you like to believe something, though, and Quinn claims to be one.
I don’t think the argument is Quinn vs. Government, he has worked in some form of Government his whole life and is a solid fixture of government (and pretty much fouled up everything he got his hands on, but that for another thread).
The argument is Quinn vs. Catholicism. Pat Quinn does not speak for the Catholic Church, and has chosen to not abide by the teachings of the Church.
JBP
- Cincinnatus - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:21 pm:
Demoralized,
You’re right, our relationship with God is personal. However, our relationship with a given denomination is a choice. When one aligns themselves with a particular church, say the Catholic Church, one should accept the canon of the Church. In this case, Quinn can certainly govern any way he wants. He can also pray any way he wants. But to call himself a Catholic does not seem consistent with his public behavior. Perhaps he should seek membership in a different denomination?
- Rich Miller - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:35 pm:
===I don’t think the argument is Quinn vs. Government===
Um, you also wrote…
===If Quinn wants to defy Catholic Church teachings, and remain a part of that Church, then he should not be in public office.===
So, which is it?
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:37 pm:
- But to call himself a Catholic does not seem consistent with his public behavior. -
Quinn can call himself whatever he wants, and the Catholic Church can denounce him all they want. This is what our country was founded on. If they want to excommunicate him, that is also their undeniable right. And again, what our country was founded on, if other members think that it’s unfair, it’s their undeniable right to follow him out the door.
- wordslinger - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:42 pm:
–Pat Quinn does not speak for the Catholic Church, and has chosen to not abide by the teachings of the Church. –
I don’t think he has ever claimed to speak for the Catholic Church.
And how many Catholics do you think there are that abide — by definition, to act in accord with — the teachings of the church, all the time?
Must not be a big line at confession.
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:51 pm:
Rich,
Quinn has deliberately chosen to defy the Catholic Church. Since he wants to remain a politician (I assume) then he has effectively quit being a Catholic.
And Word,
Quinn campaigns as a Catholic in Catholic circles and social groups. If he is denying the Catholic Church, perhaps he should start within his political campaigns, by announcing his decisions to be against fundamental Catholic teachings.
Of course everyone is a sinner, but it takes a special person to seek public accolade and approval for his failures.
jbp
- cermak_rd - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:54 pm:
Also, the Catholic church does not have a monopoly on the word Catholic. There are also Old Roman Catholic churches, whose members also refer to themselves as Catholics, to say nothing of members of the PNCC who also consider themselves Catholic.
And then there are the 65% of Catholics in IL who support civil unions, the huge majority who support contraceptive use and access, and the large minority who are pro-choice.
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 2:59 pm:
cermak,
Who cares? Quinn can join Hare Krishnas if he wants. The dispute is between Pat Quinn and the Church he claims to be in.
The Catholic Church has not developed the Catechism based on a poll of its members.
jbp
- Taffybear - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 3:08 pm:
First and foremost is the right to LIFE! Without this right there are no other rights to be concerned about! Of course, there are people who consider themselves “Catholics”, but in actuality they are in name ONLY!. The basic tenets of our Catholic faith include 5 non-negotiables: abortions, euthanasia, cloning, embryonic stem-cell research and homosexual ‘marriage’ are all intrinsicly wrong! As faithful Catholics we cannot support them. All one has to do is to read and study the Catechism to know what we believe in. Educate yourselves and know the faith!
- 10th Indy - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 3:12 pm:
Taffy
Not one of your 5 non-negotiables are included in the apostle’s creed. Those are the basic tenets of our catholic faith.
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 3:13 pm:
- The basic tenets of our Catholic faith include 5 non-negotiables: abortions, euthanasia, cloning, embryonic stem-cell research and homosexual ‘marriage’ -
Yes, I found Paul’s letter to the Romans on embryonic stem-cell research particularly riveting.
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 3:24 pm:
The Catechism exists and pretty much defines the comprehensive teachings of the Catholic Church.
Take a look sometime, as it is developed from the Apostles Creed and other parts of the Catholic Faith to form an authentic teaching document of Catholic Doctrine.
JBP
- Wensicia - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 4:08 pm:
==Quinn has deliberately chosen to defy the Catholic Church. Since he wants to remain a politician (I assume) then he has effectively quit being a Catholic.==
JP - Would you agree that any true Catholic could not uphold either the state or U.S. Constitutions, due to conflicts with their faith? As such, isn’t it the doctrine of the Church that prevents their participation in our country’s politics? This is hardly the fault of the “Left” or anyone else outside of the Church’s teachings.
- NAD - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 4:18 pm:
He doesn’t need to be excommunicated: he’s already excommunicated himself according to Canon law. I think the only way Quinn will come to see the error of his ways is if he continues to sit in the pew every weekend. 16 years of Catholic education wasn’t enough. Weekly mass attendance has still not been enough. Eventually, the Truth will get to him.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 4:30 pm:
Mayor Daley was pro-choice, pro gay rights and for the death penalty. Never was he excoriated by his Cardinal like Quinn has been. Not once.
Speaker Madigan is pro-life, but he allows pro-choice bills to pass his chamber. He’s also pro gay rights. MJM is arguably far more powerful than Quinn, but nobody in the hierarchy has taken him to task, either.
- JP - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 4:39 pm:
Not sure how much a Mayor has to do with right-to-life issues.
I think the major issue with Quinn is in execution. Not only has he campaigned against the teachings of his stated religion, he is making public appearances for Personal PAC. I don’t recall Daley or Madigan ever doing such a thing.
JBP
- Demoralized - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 5:04 pm:
JP:
If you think anyone in the Catholic Church is 100% compliant with all of the teachings of the Catholic faith I think you are fooling yourself. If the Catholic Church, or any Church for that matter, wants to root out people and banish them for not being fully compliant there are going to be a lot of empty pew’s on Sunday mornings.
You have no right to tell Quinn that he cannot be Catholic.
- Demoralized - Friday, Nov 18, 11 @ 5:08 pm:
Sorry. The post above should have been addressed to Cincy.