63 Comments - wizzardofozzie - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 4:23 pm: Republicans are hypocritical. Pure and simple. They are a joke of a party. - Borealis - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 4:36 pm: This is good news, and I am confused, but happy that some Republicans? could block this stinker of largesse IL can ill afford. - Mike T. - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 4:49 pm: This is unfortunate as the three companies at issue will simply leave and who else knows how many more will follow. Il State Gov is exceptionally poor at what they do. - Shore - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 4:49 pm: what’s at stake if this bill fails? do people honestly think these executives are going to pull their kids out of new trier to move to shaker heights or texas? - Lincoln's Penny - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 4:53 pm: 8 votes huh, I think Dunkin’s hemp bill got more… - soccermom - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 4:53 pm: Shore — Fort Wayne is beautiful this time of year… - Mike T. - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 4:57 pm: Shore: The answer is yes, they probably will. I’m pretty sure that someone in Seattle expressed the same skepticism as you just before Boeing picked up and left for Chicago; or Miller/Coors; or when Hilton moved from the West Coast to DC. this is the world we live in, like it or not. Comapneis and people are mobile and will simply go to the environment that’s best for them. Right now, it ain’t too good in IL for businesses, large and small. - Rod - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:00 pm: Well Sears and the CME just had their bluff called. Rep Franks did a very good job taking the bill apart during the debate. Although he was scary when he advocated for completely revoking the tax increase. - Easy - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:01 pm: How many more bad investments is cme going to make? 90k to quinn, 150k to madigan, they raise the taxes and now no bailout. - DE - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:02 pm: CME is legal gambling. Add their tax break onto the gaming expansion, remove the slots from tracks, and let CME move to Arlington Park for a Paimutual-Exchange facility. Can it get any worse here? How about a blizzard? - Confused - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:06 pm: Not sure CME execs have to move their families. Probably not such a big issue to move the server farms to Indiana and still live in Winnetka. - dave - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:12 pm: Anyone know who the 9 yeses were? - Jaded - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:17 pm: 8 votes. Wow. What a dynamic victory for the 99 percenters! - bigdaddygeo - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:18 pm: I am guessing CME has a number of redundant processing facilities around the country. Is it that hard to have one of the states that house one of those facilities declare “CME futures transactions occur in this state and the tax is (pick a number - even 0%)” ? - Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:19 pm: ~Not sure CME execs have to move their families. Probably not such a big issue to move the server farms to Indiana and still live in Winnetka. ~ This should be made illegal. You “move” your company to Indiana, you should have to live there. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:21 pm: ==The bill received just 8 votes. 99 voted against.== Good. - walkinfool - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:21 pm: Wow. Someone just saved Bradley from the Century award. I can’t believe such a lopsided vote unless there’s a plan B ready, because more Reps support deals for these two companies than that. - DuPage Dave - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:32 pm: Hoagy Carmichael was from Indiana. The Dunes are in Indiana. That’s pretty much it as far as positive things to say about Indiana. Let the CME greedmongers go live there. - hisgirlfriday - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:36 pm: Guess Terry Duffy should have invited Tom Cross as his guest to the Boehner fundraiser instead? Also just scrolling through things in the twitter feed — what was Gary Hannig doing there? - just sayin' - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:40 pm: Tom Cross wants to be something other than a laughingstock, but not happening. - Peter Snarker - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:41 pm: This wasnt about sears and cme, it was about the earned income credit, right? - Newsclown - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:42 pm: Now republicans will wear the jacket if these companies leave, Quinn and the senate dems can say they *tried*… but the republicans didn’t come to play. - hisgirlfriday - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:52 pm: Snarker, Don’t waste your time trying to figure out a policy reason for the vote. Bills don’t pass by a supermajority in one chamber and get 99 no votes in the other because of policy considerations. Someone decided the politics were bad and/or someone got their feelings hurt. Pretty much the same reason all laws happen or don’t happen. - wizzardofozzie - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:53 pm: “Rep Franks did a very good job taking the bill apart during the debate. Although he was scary when he advocated for completely revoking the tax increase.” Rep. Franks is the most effective member of the Illinois Republican Party. - Mr. D - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 6:15 pm: Is the special session continuing tomorrow or are they done? - Moderate REpub - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 6:25 pm: Someone find Governor Quinn!! He must be stuck in an elevator some where because I know he would come to the rescue and use his leadership skills and the power of the executive branch to broker a resolution to this madness!!! - Sorry I was dreaming again. - Moderate REpub - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 6:32 pm: Newsclown - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 5:42 pm: Now republicans will wear the jacket if these companies leave, Quinn and the senate dems can say they *tried*… but the republicans didn’t come to play. What? It got 9 votes in the House and Repubs in the Senate did vote for it. If the companies leave, its because of the tax increase, not because repubs didn’t vote to give a backroom deal to 2 companies. If repubs vote for it they will be saddled with voting to give “big business” a tax break. There is very little to gain politically by voting yes for either version of this legislation. If CME and Sears leave, its just another example of what impact the largest tax increase in Illinois history has had. Democrats passed it - now they can live with the consequences. - Confused - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 6:43 pm: “This should be made illegal. You “move” your company to Indiana, you should have to live there.” And if you own a company in each of two states your body should be cut in half and shipped out to each of them. That would be just deserts for the 1% anyhow. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 6:47 pm: Why so many Republican no votes? - Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 6:49 pm: Moderate Repub: Neither the CME issue or the Sears issue has anything to do with the tax increase. It didn’t help but both companies had other reasons also. Sears break was expiring and CME hated the tax structure prior to the tax increase. - Moderate REpub - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:00 pm: - Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 6:49 pm: Moderate Repub: Neither the CME issue or the Sears issue has anything to do with the tax increase. It didn’t help but both companies had other reasons also. Sears break was expiring and CME hated the tax structure prior to the tax increase. While I agree the the Sears doesnt but the bill comtains both Sears and CME. While CME stated they had problems with the tax structure and they planned to address it no one in this dome believes it. They are coming because of the tax increase. Regardless of who is right or wrong that’s what the mail pieces will say, and that’s really all that matters. - anon - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:07 pm: Keep in mind that Sears’ income tax liability last year was 0. So no matter what the tax rate is, they wouldn’t owe anything. Hence they need to use the EDGE credit against its withholding liability. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:12 pm: I just saw an analysis on Chicago Tonight, in which the reporter said many House members were concerned that passage of this bill would open the “floodgates” to businesses that would demand tax breaks–also that the legislation was top-heavy and didn’t offer enough relief to low-income workers. Really, so many Republicans would reject a top-heavy bill?? - Joe - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:18 pm: Grandson: Now I’m afraid that the floodgate will be a stream of companies leaving the state, in particular Chicago. By conservative estimates, 60,000 jobs are dependent on CME and CBOE. It’s frightening to even consider what the impact would be if they left, not to mention those in other industries. - hisgirlfriday - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:20 pm: Moderate Repub, Good luck winning that campaign with those mail pieces hitting the Dems for failing to give CME a tax break. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:25 pm: ==Keep in mind that Sears’ income tax liability last year was 0. So no matter what the tax rate is, they wouldn’t owe anything. Hence they need to use the EDGE credit against its withholding liability.== One wonders if the state would save money by letting them go? - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:29 pm: Joe, I am not necessarily doubting what you are saying, because I won’t try to predict the future, but I remember people said businesses and individuals will leave when the income tax increased. I checked states’ unemployment figures, and they have been growing in the last few months (including Texas). Also, why would the businesses leave now that CME and Sears didn’t get their tax breaks if they didn’t leave right after the tax increase? - Joe - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:39 pm: Grandson: According to some estimates, quite a few jobs have already left IL over the course of 2011. The tax increase that was rammed through in January was the straw that broke the back for many. With respect to CME and CBOE, they have specifically cited that the increase was the last straw and has prompted them to come to Springfield to argue that the manner in which their trades are assessed is unfair. They probably had a good case before. Now they have an even better case. Why should they have to shoulder 6% of all corporate taxes paid in the state when the majority of that activity occurs elsewhere? - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 7:49 pm: Joe, there was one report that stated something like Illinois lost around 90,000 jobs, beginning immediately after the tax increase (I am summoning dying memory brain cells). The timing seems suspect to me. Were people really just waiting for the increase to leave immediately after? I also read that relatively few pay the corporate income tax. So if it’s the personal income tax, other states have higher personal income tax rates than Illinois, including Wisconsin. - Joe - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 8:19 pm: Grandson: Yes, indeed. Quite a few other states have higher personal income tax rates. I believe that IL is actually middle of the pack. However, the problem is that IL imposes what amounts to practically the highest effective corporate income tax rate in the world. That it does is quite embarrassing, to me at least, and therein lies the problem. When the state arrogantly rammed through the increase in January, they compounded an already existing burden that corporate and individual taxpayers alike face. To make matters worse, it hasn’t fixed the state’s fiscal position one bit and, in total, IL’s business climate is far weaker than in even some surrounding states (e.g. Indiana) and even larger job magnets (e.g. Texas). - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 8:39 pm: Wisconsin has political turmoil now, and it also posted the largest jobs loss of any state in October. Its income tax is higher than ours, and it doesn’t seem like the best place for business now. I drove through the northern part of Indiana this weekend. I don’t mean to be offensive, but I can’t imagine moving to what I saw, even with lower taxes. The specter of so many CME jobs leaving is horrible, though (in and of itself). Will this really happen, or will CME hold on to see if it can get another deal? - hisgirlfriday - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 9:30 pm: Joe, CME should hire you as its lobbyist. I bet you would actually show up at committee to argue on behalf of the CME bill. - Ok - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 9:31 pm: “To make matters worse, it hasn’t fixed the state’s fiscal position one bit” Don’t be ignorant. - bored now - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 10:11 pm: that’s funny, joe. let cme leave. computer trading programs benefit from the fact that chicago has the biggest bandwidth around and i don’t see any reason not to tax transactions at their origination. just looking at the map now, and things have changed a little since the last time i really looked. the connection between silicon valley and la is now up to 13×10GigE, while our connections to both coasts are still 12×10GigE. the connection out of indianapolis is 2×10GigE. ft worth can get you a connection of 13×10GigE going to la but you’d get bogged down on a 4×10GigE connection up to the big apple. now you could easily convince me that the cme board might not care about milliseconds on computer trading, but the market will. speed matters. screw cme. if they leave, someone else will come and take their place. that’s a fact… - Stark's Boys - Tuesday, Nov 29, 11 @ 11:20 pm: == If CME and Sears leave, its just another example of what impact the largest tax increase in Illinois history has had. Democrats passed it - now they can live with the consequences. == Let’s follow this argument to its logical conclusion, shall we? Those tax-loving and job-hating Democrats passed a tax increase. Why? Because the state was in dire need of extra revenue to meet budget obligations. And how did the state come to find itself in such a calamity? According to Republicans, because of the reckless and irresponsible budgets since 2003 when Democrats took sole control of the legislative and executive branches. Bull. Here’s a fact the GOP can stick in their pipes. Between 2003 and 2010, the state passed eight budgets. Four of those budgets passed with GOP support. In the baseball, batting .500 in a day is pretty good; .500 in a season is an otherworldly feat worthy of legendary status. In GOP Land, batting .500 on state budgets means you had absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand, nope, none at all. Hands are clean. “Hey, can’t be our fault. We’re in the minority, remember? Nevermind what the roll calls say. We have no power!” Yeah, Democrats passed the tax increase. Because Republicans were gutless wonders who refuse to acknowledge they had any role whatsoever in getting the state in the condition it’s in. - OSIboy - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 12:57 am: were my 2 original posts removed? I’d like to know why. - Fido - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 1:11 am: Anyone care to enlighten me as to the #Occupy movement’s effect on the voting, if any? - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 1:30 am: Well, until we can get quotes from all of the legislature, it’s impossible to say what votes Occupy Springfield changed, however, given the reaction of those members of House who commented to us later on the events, and the fact that the protestors could be heard loud and clear on the floor, I’d say Occupy Illinois should get a great deal of credit for making CME’s day all the more miserable! I’ll post a link to the video of the protest event on here, in a separate post. I have no idea if the moderator allows that sort of thing, so hopefully if not he/she will just delete the post and remark on it, and not delete this response as well. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 1:32 am: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiFwY1bsX-M A better video with subtitles of the Santa-skit is in the works, but for now, hopefully CapitolFax allows this to be put on here! Happy Holidays from OSI! - Joe - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 5:21 am: Grandson & Bored Now: I certainly hope that you both ARE right and CME’s and CBOE’s threats are really all just bluffs. You sound very confident, but again, who will be left for you to tax if everyone does leave? - Joe - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 5:25 am: Stark’s Boys: The headlines and campaign ads from this point onward will now read “IL and Chicago Economies Slide Under Quinn, Cullerton and Madigan”. The aforementioned will stumble and fumble and try to deflect criticism back to the GOP, but those three are in the leadership now and they are apparently incapable of cleaning up this mess. - Allen Skillicorn - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 7:08 am: Still proud of that 67% tax increase, passed in the middle of the night, in the last hours of the lame duck session? Still proud of the smart-grid rate increase scam? This is exactly what the Policy Institute said would happen. - Rob - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 7:22 am: Wait, so now the bill will give tax breaks to corporations and reduce tax credits for poor people (lower EITC)? - Peter Snarker - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 7:58 am: Rob - What bill are you looking at? The bill was going to raise the EITC, not lower it, and cut CME and (hypothetically, if Sears paid taxes to the state of Illinois) Sears taxes. So - basically, a perk for the top and a perk for the bottom, and the great unwashed middle gets “trickle down/up” benefits and pays for it all. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 8:05 am: Looks like Cross wants a little help with some funders before the primaries. One good shakedown deserves another. –Now I’m afraid that the floodgate will be a stream of companies leaving the state, in particular Chicago. By conservative estimates, 60,000 jobs are dependent on CME and CBOE. – What “conservative” estimates are you referring to, Joe? I’ve been working around the Board, Merc and CBOE for twenty years. Sixty thousands jobs is about as accurate as the two million who went to the Blackhawks rally. The trading floors aren’t going anywhere, by the way. Those jobs stay here. What “stream” are you referring to? And if its so easy to operate an exchange “anywhere,” why hasn’t it been done already? Why does NASDAQ, a totally electronic trading platform, keep a a high-tax Manhattan address? Why aren’t all exchanges located in Mayberry? And where does the lunacy that Illinois corporate income tax hurts business come from? More than 60% of Illinois corporations pay no income tax at all. That’s a selling point. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 8:35 am: Anon 8:05 was me, in case you couldn’t guess, lol. Maybe CME should go cash in that $600 million offer from the mystery state (Freedonia? Atlantis? Brigadoon?). The identity of that generous suitor is the most guarded secret since the Manhattan Project. You would have thought someone would have tumbled by now. What would the ROI be for such an offer, anyway? Think about that. Six hundred million would at least cover the nut that CME is putting up for MF Global. That number keeps going up, and is a lot bigger problem for CME — short-term and long-term — than the Illinois income tax. Illinois has been good for CME. They are incredibly profitable and have been for decades. You don’t just walk away from that. If they want to be part of a discussion on reforming the state tax structure to fit 21st Century realities, then pull up a chair. If they want to put a gun to our heads, then go ahead and shoot, because you’ll not get a second chance, as far as I’m concerned. Let’s resolve not to be blackmailed, because it will never end. No negotiating with economic terrorists. Enough is enough. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 8:47 am: –Shore: The answer is yes, they probably will. I’m pretty sure that someone in Seattle expressed the same skepticism as you just before Boeing picked up and left for Chicago; – Where do they build the 747s in Chicago? Riverview? Kiddieland? And don’t cry for Seattle. Boeing has nearly 80,000 jobs in Washington state. They don’t even list Illinois on their own website when it comes to jobs. Do facts matter at all? http://www.boeing.com/aboutus/employment/employment_table.html - Flip - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 8:51 am: @Anonymous/Wordslinger- You sound very confident. Not sure whether that’s at all justified, but let’s hope that you’re correct. I would hate to see an entire Chicago industry start to dissolve. - Flip - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 8:54 am: Indeed, facts do matter, Wordslinger… “Headquartered in Chicago, Boeing employs more than 165,000 people across the United States and in 70 countries. This represents one of the most diverse, talented and innovative workforces anywhere. More than 123,000 of our people hold college degrees–including nearly 32,000 advanced degrees–in virtually every business and technical field from approximately 2,700 colleges and universities worldwide. Our enterprise also leverages the talents of hundreds of thousands more skilled people working for Boeing suppliers worldwide. Corporate Offices: 100 North Riverside Chicago, Illinois 60606 Updated August 2011″ - wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 9:02 am: Flip, how many Boeing jobs are in Chicago? Illinois is not listed on its own corporate chart that I attached. The original point was that Boeing left Seattle. They didn’t. They moved some suits who got tired of doing the transcontinental hump from Seattle to New York and DC. Chicago is a lot more convenient. As far as a “Chicago industry starting to dissolve,” why would it? CME reported higher profits in the third quarter — post income-tax — than the previous year. Who walks away from making good money? - Flip - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 9:07 am: Aporoximately 700 (maybe a bit more), Wordslinger. How would I know that, you may ask? I work for a supplier to Boeing. I wouldn’t so casually disregard those “suits” you apparently hold in such low esteem because, like it or not, those “suits” buy things (such as from my company), eat things, invest in things locally wherever those “suits” may be. Oh, BTW, those “suits” also pay taxes, probably more than you contribute. - Flip - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 9:08 am: Oh, Wordslinger, in answer to your question…Plenty of people, especially if they can make even more money elsewhere. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 30, 11 @ 9:14 am: Lighten up, Flip. I addressed the original contention that Boeing left Seattle. They didn’t. Seven hundred jobs in Chicago? I’ll take your word for it. There are still nearly 80,000 Boeing jobs in the Seattle area. All it cost the city and state for those 700 jobs was $63 million. http://siteselection.com/ssinsider/incentive/ti0106.htm Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.