52 Comments - titan - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 9:56 am: Unless we’re running out of prisoners (doubtful), we should fill it or close it. - tubbfan - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:06 am: I’m no conspiracy theorist, but it seems that there is more here than meets the eye. Did Quinn’s people leak the story? Are there union rules that require the staffing levels (and salaries for the food supervisors)? The apparent incompetence in establishing staffing levels and hours worked is too simple an explanation, right? - lincolnlover - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:07 am: What was the population before Quinn began his reign of terror? Is this just a snapshot that is caused by AFSCME’s successful temporary block of prisoner transfer? “An average of $71,600 per year” might mean that one person makes about $100,000 and the other 15 make @ $35,000. I think there are a lot of facts missing that need to be considered before anyone jumps to misguided conclusions. - state worker - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:14 am: No one is losing a job. All staff affected by closures are being reassigned to understaffed prisons. Tamns is not an outpost. There are five other such prisons within 90 miles of Tamms. State workers serve the state. They should go where they are needed. Imagine if active military refused to leave their base and rallied in numbers. Union tradesmen move for jobs too. AFSCME please think about service. - Robert the Bruce - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:14 am: ==“An average of $71,600 per year” might mean that one person makes about $100,000 and the other 15 make @ $35,000. I think there are a lot of facts missing that need to be considered before anyone jumps to misguided conclusions.== Hope this isn’t considering jumping to conclusions, but your example of 1@$100k and 15@35k would be an average of $39,063, not $71,600. - dupage dan - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:15 am: Connect this story to the boondoggle posted yesterday about paying folk to attend a yoga class and you have a picture of a failed government. Can’t put all of it on Quinn’s desk, or the GOP/dem party. Plenty of fault to go around. And no one in Springfield with the vision, fortitude and stamina to deal with it. Doomed. - Ann - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:16 am: Thanks for highlighting this story. It’s truly jaw-dropping. - anon - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:17 am: I think there are enough facts here to know that this is a waste of tax dollars. Prisons should never have become an economic development tool. While it could damage an already suffering economy in Alexander County, doesnt the health of the overall state economy take precedent? If we continue to allow sound budgeting to be held hostage to regional economic concerns, we will never right the ship. This also makes the union look bad. Why do they choose to fight EVERY fight? The union is only credible when it negotiates on issues where change is necessary. This is just offensive. - bartelby - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:19 am: Tamms has been a waste if money since day one: 80 millionto build a prison to hold, what dcfs now admits are just 25 incorrigibles who can be safely held at Pontiac; 80 million to house dozens of men with serious mental illnesses; and 80 million to drive others mad from the isolation of years in solitary confinement. And now 26 million per year to keep open a prison that is two thirds empty. So I’d call that waste piled upon waste! - state worker - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:20 am: The most inmates the max side ever had was 280 and that was a decade ago. At the time of closure it was 180. The bloated staff at Tamms has been noted by the House Appropriations Committee for years. In fact, it is the reason it was flagged for closure. - LincolnLounger - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:22 am: Kudos to the New-Democrat for some fine journalism. Too bad it is such a scare commodity these days. - just sayin' - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:23 am: So bascially we’re talking about welfare here for no work jobs. And much of it is welfare going to Republicans down there. - Alan Mills - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:27 am: The state did reach a compromise–every worker at Tamms has been offered a job in a nearby prison–all of which have vacancies they desperately need to fill. AFSCME’s using Tamms as a bargaining chip in its larger fight with the state over a new contract. Meanwhile, overtime is paid, and men suffer needlessly. - Irish - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:34 am: I agree that there are many unanswered questions here that need to be answered to get a better understanding of what is really going on. AFSCME has not been able to control staffing levels at other DOC facilities where staff levels are dangerously low. They have wanted to increase staff but have been unsuccessful. I also believe that overtime amounts are management’s call once basic safety issues are satisfied. I do not think, given the information above, that safety issues are a problem at Tamms. So why is management approving the overtime there? I guess I am wondering why management is allowing this to continue? I am not aware of any special clauses that DOC employees have in their contract that would force management to maintain these staffing levels. Other than their supplementary agreement they have the same contract that IDNR DCFS and DHS employees have and we have seen real cuts to staffs in those agencies. This seems to me to be more of a poor management problem than a union issue. If this is an AFSCME run prison system, why don’t all the other facilities have the same staff surpluses? I understand the union has sued and stopped further transfers and the closure, but how did the facility get to this point in the first place? Isn’t the head of DOC a Quinn appointee? It seems to me that the agency heads knew this was occurring and let it get to this point. These people didn’t just walk in the door and start working. Someone had to decide the positions were needed. Then CMS had to okay the added head count. Under who’s watch did all of that occur? And when? - Ready To Get Out - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:34 am: I’m not trying to justify what is going on there, but 208 “security staff” people don’t work 24 hours shifts. While that ratio is 1.5 to 1, if you divided the staff into 3 equal shifts, the ratio changes to 1-2. Guess it’s true you can make numbers say anything you want. - Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:35 am: Still don’t understand how the governor can tout his efforts to close “half empty” facilities when his other facilities are at 200 percent of capacity. Seems like a failure to manage resources. He either needs to use all the facilities in his aresonal or let people go — and we saw how well he managed that program. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:38 am: @Michelle: He CAN’T get rid of people. AFSCME has sued at every turn and judges have sided with them. Don’t put all of the blame on the Governor. He shares plenty of blame, but when judges won’t allow the state to actually manage, what are you supposed to do? - cassandra - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:43 am: I don’t find the overtime costs that exorbitant. Many people don’t realize how expensive it is to run a 24-hour service, especially if the service is provided in an institution which shelters human beings. When somebody doesn’t show up, you have to replace them with other employees, at overtime rates. Ditto when regular employees are off on scheduled vacation or compensatory time or when they are ill. Minimum staffing requirements exist, no matter how many inmates there are. When the number of employees is down, you have to pay overtime to meet basic staffing requirements. It all adds up, as does the cost of feeding, housing and clothing an institutional population. The solution is not to build more ultra-expensive jails with their legitimate, yet astronomical personnel costs. It is to reduce the number of offenders who do their time in jail. The prisoners at Tamms could then be moved to less crowded jails that can safely accommodate them.Alas, there has been little leadership from the Quinn admin on modernizing state correctional policy. As to the residents of the county where Tamms is located–wake up to the global economy. Instead of demanding jobs at the jail, start demanding educational and business resources from the state so your young people can learn to compete. Whatever happens this round, Tamms is almost certainly going away and a civil service job down at the jail is almost certainly not in your children’s future. - Chris - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:50 am: ““An average of $71,600 per year” might mean that one person makes about $100,000 and the other 15 make @ $35,000.” It’d have to be more like *9* making $100,000 and 7 making $35,000. - nieva - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:51 am: IDOC has directives that force you to work overtime You can bet the overtime that you see here is due to posts that cannot be vacated. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:58 am: ===if you divided the staff into 3 equal shifts, the ratio changes to 1-2.=== Oh, yeah, so much more efficient. - Geneseo Gent - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 10:58 am: How many State vehicles are assigned to support this GRAVY TRAIN? Does anybody know? - lincolnlover - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:02 am: Chris and Bruce - Thanks for the math! My point was that 16 people are not making $76,000 each. Often when statistics are dumped on top of each other, the word “average” gets lost in the equation. - Frank Roosevelt - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:03 am: “… Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations … The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for … officials … to bind the employer … The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives …” - Ready To Get Out - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:10 am: Sorry Rich, didn’t say anything about efficiency. Was making a point anyone can twist numbers to support their argument. If you want efficiency, close it and move the inmates to another facility. - Irish - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:12 am: Also, I think this administration, namely Pat Quinn, would have gotten further by meeting face to face with stakeholders in each of these issues. I know it appears that the unions are being unreasonable and unyielding. However if you look at everything that has transpired you can better understand their position. When the Governor unilaterally cuts contractually promised raises and steps, but only does it to certain groups. And then manages by press release rather than by open communication. And when the Governor for all intents and purposes declares open war on all unionized state employees blaming them for all the ills of the state, vilifying them in the public eye. And gives raises to himself and his own staff it is no wonder the unions are unwilling to give up anything else. The unions have made concessions in the past in exchange for a written agreement that the governor would not cut anything else. And then he reneged on that promise. It is understandable they the unions do not trust him at all. Yet the unions have offered more concessions, possibly looking at no raises for a year or two, possibly a larger per cent of their pension. But the Governor refuses to talk about any of that. He would rather continue to manage by press release as far from the actual negotiations as he can get. So it is not that hard to understand why the union is standing firm in areas they can. - Downstate Illinois - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:18 am: Everyone is forgetting that without Tamms and the death penalty IDOC has no effective deterent to keep prisoners in line. I read the article yesterday and thought that IDOC was badly managing the facility, but that would be the governor’s responsibility, not the union’s. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:26 am: Let’s just pull the old bait-and-switch. When the Federales show up to take the keys to Thomson Correctional, we’ll just tell them they bought Tamms instead and send them on their way. Illinois gets revenue from the sale and a brand new prison! No? You mean it doesn’t work like that? Darn. - Small Town Liberal - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:27 am: Irish - Your rhetoric is getting a little ridiculous. Quinn paid employees based on the GA’s appropriation, it wasn’t a personal decision. Furthermore, Quinn has never blamed all of the state’s ills on the employees, though AFSCME has certainly blamed him for all of their ills. And really, Quinn has given himself raises? Are you deliberately ignoring the fact that the governor’s salary is set by law, not by executive action? You keep repeating the governing by press release, what does this even mean? Quinn’s negotiators have been at the table with AFSCME for nearly a year. The original talking points from the union were that Quinn was demanding 2 grade pay decreases and massive healthcare cost increases. Now they’re down to whether or not there’s a 1 year wage freeze or the duration of the contract. This is how collective bargaining works, what more do you want? As Steve Schnorf pointed out before, AFSCME are not coal miners fighting scabs’ bullets or Haymarket strikers being fired on by police. In case you hadn’t noticed, the economy hasn’t been great, and the state’s finances aren’t great either. I doubt you’re going to see much sympathy over raises right now. - Anonymice - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:34 am: ==The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for … officials … to bind the employer … == Hence the need for the provision in Article I, Section 10, of the US Constitution: “No State shall . . .pass any . . . Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts.” When a state contracts with its workers, it is bound by that contract. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 11:35 am: Sometimes overtime is created when workers play games with sick time. I’ll call in sick at the last minute so you can get overtime, then you’ll call in sick late so I can get overtime. Could that be going on here? - Just a Citizen - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 12:02 pm: Just wondering how I could get one of those $70k a year jobs to supervise others microwaving food. I have all of the skill sets necessary for that job. - Lay Person - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 12:28 pm: This country is so invested in Unions it is sad for those millions without representation. Some Union initiatives were successful and needed, but now all they want is money to continually elect Democrats. This country will see a rude awakening, when those that give tax dollars freely must begin to implement strict austerity measures to sustain the country. Remeber smaller government allows a free flow of creativity and growth. It is always easier to give than to take away. Look at the fiscal picture of this country 16 Trillion in debt. It cannot continue with higher taxes, spent without any accountability or payment towards outstanding debt. - MrJM - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 12:29 pm: Everyone is forgetting that without Tamms and the death penalty IDOC has no effective deterrent to keep prisoners in line. Hogwash. Our little globe is dotted with first-world nations that have figured out how to “keep prisoners in line” without the threat of either the death penalty or human rights violations. – MrJM - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 12:44 pm: –Everyone is forgetting that without Tamms and the death penalty IDOC has no effective deterrent to keep prisoners in line.– Back that up with some facts or put it away. The sad fact is, there is a politically active segment in Southern Illinois that sees prisons as “economic development.” Like they have nothing else going for them. They never talk about expanding their education resources. Or their tourism resources. Just prisons and high-sulfur coal, on somebody else’s dime. And get government off my back. - Robert the Bruce - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 12:45 pm: ==AFSCME has not been able to control staffing levels at other DOC facilities where staff levels are dangerously low. They have wanted to increase staff but have been unsuccessful.== They may, as you suggest, have legitimate complaints about dangerously low staffing levels elsewhere, but when they get away with this type of staffing of food supervisors at taxpayer expense, it makes me skeptical of any complaint they might have. I know labor needs to fight for everything, but I just wish they’d say “You know what, we agree, the food supervisor staffing is ridiculous.” - sgtstu - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 2:24 pm: This is just smoke and mirrors, The reason there are more guards than convicts is simple. When Quinn started the process of trying to close Tamms he transfered inmates to Pontiac and I believe transfered inmates from the work camp out as well. It takes a certain number of staff to run a prison. Management decides how many that is and which jobs are to be manned. This post are called mandatory post and that is why the overtime is an issue. Simple cure, transfer the worst of the worst back to Tamms where they belong and the inmate to staff ratio is where it should be. Some of you people are so clueless, you are just the type that Quinn plays to. Try asking some questions before you pass judgement and you might not seem so clueless. Quinnn wants these numbers to look bad for the employees at Tamms so he can build support for closing it and getting his way. He is spending your money to make you mad and you are going for it. What should make most of you mad is Quinn is spending your money to try to get his way on closing this prison and you are mad at the employees. Don’t be so gulliable ! And no I do not work at this prison or anyother prison. - lincolnlover - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 2:28 pm: Small Town - You are incorrect about the current state of negotiations. The Governor is also demanding large increases in the cost of healthcare premiums paid by employees and is insisting on no pay increase for the life of the contract. At the same time, his staff received increases in pay of up to 45%. Some of those were title increases and are understandable, but others were given a raise when he is telling everyone that there is no money. Two-faced, at best. As for blaming him for all their ills, well, since he is the one making the unreasonable demands, that would make him the one to blame, wouldn’t it? - RetiredStateEmployee - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 2:44 pm: 208 Employees time 5 8 hour shifts 208 x 5 = 1040 7 Days times 3 shifts per day 7*3 = 21 Available employee shifts divided by shifts per week 1040 / 21 = ~50 50 employees per shift average This probably is different for day and night shifts. I don’t know what is the appropriate staffing level, but maybe we should. - Small Town Liberal - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 3:01 pm: lincolnlover - Point me to specific examples of 45% raises for his staff that didn’t involve promotions and I’ll buy you a drink. As to the blame, I’m sure the can kicking of the pension problem for the last 40 years might have had something to do with the current financial trouble, maybe? And what’s your definition of large increases in healthcare cost? My guess is the general public might have a different one. And I hate to repeat myself, but the original statements from AFSCME were that the administration was demanding 2 pay grade decreases, now they’re at the point that it’s whether or not there will be any increases in this contract. If you can’t see that as an example of bargaining, I’m not sure what to tell you. - lincolnlover - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 3:28 pm: The current condition of the pension problem has more to do with the fact that the state has simply ignored their financial obligations for the past 40 years than any other reason. My definition of “large increases” would be doubling the premium. To pay $500 a month for the same or worse insurance, is too much when combined with no pay increase for 3 years. And don’t bring the public into this, because they already place blame exactly where it should be - with the politicians who have caused the financial issues in the state, not the employees. And who said anything about “an example of bargaining”? - Sir Reel - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 3:35 pm: Folks it could be worse. If the Food Supervisors had to prepare and cook the food they would get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and file workers comp claims a la the Chester prison, costing even more. - Cindy Lou - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 3:49 pm: Could ‘we’ be a bit more specific as to actual title of these ‘food preparers’…I’d like to look up their job descript and base salary. I’m also interested as to why some seem to believe OT is so easily granted and by such underlings. My past agency (not DOC) certainly did not site approve jack. Neither staff level, supplies/equipment (we were known to have to beg for the tiniest thing …I’m talking rouutine necessary basic job performce items… and jump through hoops to maybe just maybe get it). If one were to review contract with my past agency, it becomes quite clear underlings aka ‘us little people’ don’t tell management squat nor set guidelines. If there is mismanagement running through DOC you’ll likely have to dig deeper than frontline and whatever planted media feed spinning this current news to come anywhere even near an accurate glimpse of reality. - Endangered Moderate Species - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 4:05 pm: Why did previous State leaders (DEM & GOP) kick the can? 1) they believed he voters of this State would not stand for higher taxes to sustain the pensions. 2) They were afraid of the outcry from the people who used the services that would need to be cut in lieu of a tax raise. 3) They thought the economy would improve (it always use to) and the markets would offset the skipped payments. We know the rest of the story. History will judge the baby boomers (myself included) as a generation of takers, whom couldn’t make the tough decisions when a sacrifice was required. - some do-gooder - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 4:11 pm: These “questions” are only “unanswered” if you’ve been buying AFSCME’s line that closing any facility, anywhere, at any time, is completely “unworkable.” Even when ALL of its members are offered other jobs. Even when those jobs are within 50 miles. Even in the juvenile system that sits half empty. You can only de-staff a supermax so far. You still need a live body to open and close every single door. Tamms has doors on doors on doors. But when was the last escape from Pontiac? Enough is enough. The facility is built to be wasteful and cruel, which is why putting more inmates inside it is the wrong move. Maybe listen to the complaints folks have had about this from its inception? Lot less “unanswered questions” that way. The Governor can’t transfer these employees to other prisons until an Alexander County judge lifts his temporary order (or it’s overturned). State employee unions are GOOD. But AFSCME’s position here is NOT. It’s going too far, it’s becoming obvious to even the most law-and-order types and even the most pro-union types, and by trying to bully its way into keeping jobs that its members are ALREADY KEEPING, leadership is showing itself to be on the side of prison guards even against DCFS workers (who would be funded if the veto doesn’t get overturned). Even outside DCFS, why aren’t non-prison members up in arms?!? Their position re: pensions is being undermined by this crap. - southern illinoisan - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 4:20 pm: What is NOT being reported here is this: the TAMMS C Max and the the TAMMS Work Camp are counted as 1 facility regarding headcount but NOT the inmate count. The fact is that yes Tamms is an expensive facility to run. But this administration is so grossly incompetent that they can make their own case for closure. This is nothing more than a PR scam and many folks are falling for it. Stop bashing state workers for the job they do. - Cindy Lou - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 4:24 pm: Some-do gooder, take a peeky poo into the overtime at your named agency (DCFS) and a certain other large agency…you’ll find OT ridiculous. It seems for quite a while to be the preferred choice over bringing in new hires. Some of these employees are taking in well above their normal base as less employees obviously means the ones employed have to cover the work needs. And just an FYI, I have no troubles closing Tamms, nor do I have an ounce of sympathy for somebody not willing and or wanting to follow their job. I myself had no trouble adjusting to the thought of ‘moving sites’ when a pink slip rolled in on me in my agency a few yrs ago. - steve schnorf - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 6:48 pm: since the place runs 24/7, remember it takes approx 4 employees to cover 1 per shift. Costs per person balloon in any facility when you reduce the population. Sometimes you can cover part of it by collapsing units if the numbers work right. The last 10 prisoners at Tamms will cost about $1m each annually, until they are all gone and the place can close. - gallerywalker - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 7:15 pm: Management rights as spelled out in the AFSCME Master Agreement…including, but not limited to: The right to hire, promote, demote, transfer, evaluate, allocate and assign employees; to discipline, suspend and discharge for just cause; to relieve employees from duty because of lack of work or other legitimate reasons; to determine the size and composition of the work force, to make and enforce reasonable rules of conduct and regulations; to determine the departments, divisions and sections and work to be performed therein; to determine the number of hours of work and shifts per workweek; to establish and change work schedules and assignments; to introduce new methods of operation; to eliminate, contract, and relocate or transfer work and maintain efficiency. Sounds like management has failed miserable to exert their right s under the agreement…utter failures!!!! - Soxfan - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 9:04 pm: == This country is so invested in Unions it is sad for those millions without representation. == If only this were true. When unions were at their strongest 40 years ago, those not represented by a union actually earned a living wage. - Anon. - Tuesday, Dec 4, 12 @ 9:20 pm: ==Point me to specific examples of 45% raises for his staff that didn’t involve promotions and I’ll buy you a drink.== It’s not 45%, but non-union GOMB employees got 3% to 10% raises this summer. Considering that many merit comp employees haven’t gotten 10% total raises in the past 10 years, and what the Governor is asking of the unions, that seems a little hypocritical. You can verify it for yourself by simply going to the Illinois Transparency and Accountability Program web site and comparing current pay rates with 2011 pay. I can’t claim direct knowledge, but I kinda doubt that they ALL got promoted. - the Patriot - Wednesday, Dec 5, 12 @ 8:06 am: Did this article come from the governors office. Try telling the whole story. 1. There are too many admin staff throughout corrections because Blago added them and because they pledged allegiance to Quinn, he did not terminate them. 2. Quinn has moved inmates out and not moved inmates into tamms to justify the closure. The tail is wagging the dog. Don’t forget there is a boot camp there now empty but the staff remains intact. 3. You cannot compare per inmate cost or inmate to staff ratio to statewide numbers. You need to compare it to other seg units which is much higher. Tamms is still more expensive than other seg units, but many of these inmates have shown they cannot be safely held in other seg units. 4. Is this just dollars and cents. If so, the advocates of the closure will need to take responsibility when other inmates and guards die by this facility closing. Either one of these inmates will kill someone, or an inmate in another seg unit that gets pushed back into general population will. Are you ok with this? Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.