* Sun-Times…
Facing a free-speech outcry, an Illinois lawmaker decided Thursday to pull the plug on anti-bullying legislation he introduced to require website managers to pull down anonymous, hate-filled Internet posts if they were requested to do so.
A measure sponsored by state Sen. Ira Silverstein (D-Chicago) would have made website administrators, upon request, to remove comments by any anonymous posters unless those people attached their names to their posts and confirmed their Internet Protocol addresses and home addresses.
The plan called the Internet Posting Removal Act, which Silverstein introduced earlier this month, was inspired by anti-bullying legislation that surfaced in New York but died in that state’s legislature last June.
“I’m going to kill the bill,” Silverstein said Thursday afternoon after the legislation drew national attention and provoked criticism from Internet free-speech advocates like the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
Earlier in the day, before deciding to mothball his legislation, Silverstein explained its motivation.
“It really has to do with cyber-bullying,” he told the Chicago Sun-Times. “The Internet is a great thing, and everyone is for it. Saying something is one thing; but once you put it on the Internet, it’s there forever.”
Silverstein said his intention wasn’t to clamp down on free-speech rights and that he merely was looking for a way to stop hate speech, particularly if it was directed at children or teen-agers.
* I think Andrew Sellars had the most cogent critique…
Ignoring that the bill makes no attempt to avoid the obvious dormant commerce clause issues inherent when a state tries to regulate what has to be on all Internet websites, and ignoring that New York tried the same thing last year with nothing to show for it, and ignoring that the average Internet user probably doesn’t know how to find their IP address (you can here), and ignoring that IP addresses are dynamically assigned on most ISPs and therefore one’s presence at a given IP address does not actually help to identify a person, and ignoring that the definition of "anonymous poster" does not include the critical ingredient that a poster be anonymous, and ignoring that the same State Senator also sponsored a bill to prevent disclosure of identities of firearm owners in Illinois (leading to the pithy critique "guns don’t kill people; comments do") – the entire premise of this bill is fundamentally repugnant to the First Amendment and may actually harm those that it is likely intended to help protect.
This is hardly the first battle in the "nymwars," and the obvious unconstitutionality of this bill will come as no surprise to those that have been following along. First Amendment doctrine has long held that, in the words of the Supreme Court, "[a]nonymous pamphlets, leaflets, brochures and even books have played an important role in the progress of mankind," and that "an author’s decision to remain anonymous, like other decisions concerning omissions or additions to the content of a publication, is an aspect of the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment." The courts that have looked at this in the context of anonymous posting online have rightly noted that First Amendment concerns play with equal force on the Internet, and that "[a]nonymous internet speech in blogs or chat rooms in some instances can become the modern equivalent of political pamphleteering." To force identification of the originator of a comment “upon reques” without any limitation is just the Talley v. California case replacing each instance of the word "pamphlet" with the word "blog;" it is painfully unconstitutional.
But more importantly, there are very, very good reasons for opposing forced identification for all online speech. As danah boyd noted in one very influential blog post, the "real names policies" that are imposed on platforms like Facebook and Google Plus (with some qualifiers) – while usually done with the intent of increasing civility by forcing identification – can actually levy the greatest harm against the vulnerable persons and groups that such policies are intended to help. There are many people who have a desire to speak out on issues affecting their lives that simply cannot do so under their real names out of fear of harassment, abuse, or physical harm: think of a high school student who secretly gay, a victim of domestic abuse, a whistleblower at a government or corporation, or the victim of an oppressive government. We desperately need these people speaking out as much as they need to speak, and the thought of forcing them to provide their names and address or face deletion is unconscionable.
Discuss.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:07 am:
Well, that’s just perfect!
You all know I am Robert Plummer now, and the bill gets killed…
To the Post,
“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin.
That Franklin, he knew a little something about “anonymity and writing”.
While Sen. Silverstein might have good intentions for its use, the Bill seems more to what Franklin speaks to about giving up liberty for safety… and that 1st Amendment thing, I guess, plays a part.
Hey - AA -, put away your paper bag for now, and I will try to work on my Peter Lorre impression. I just hope neither of us have to use them.
- Liberty_First - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:13 am:
We elect such clueless people. The FCC tried for a number of years under the Obama administration and Chairman Genekoski to push government regulation of the internet under “net neutality” which would have favored politically connected wireless companies. Conservatives and libertarians were afraid once the FCC got their fingers in regulating packet distribution there wouldn’t be an end to it. It didn’t help when Dick Durbin stood on the Senate floor and announced it was time to reinstate the FCC fairness doctrine. Genekowski gave Lightsquared green lights while putting walls up for other companies until they went under. Lightsquare’s technology interfered with GPS and would nave made obsolete every GPS device in America. While several White House meetings with Lightsquared CEO occured, the whole issue was dropped right before the presidential campaign and the FCC’s fairness doctrine was quietly eliminated under the government reform of needless regulation initiative.
- Liberty_First - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:15 am:
Great Franklin quote Oswego!
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:17 am:
- Liberty_First -
Mr. Frankkin… and I thank you.
- wordslinger - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:26 am:
Ira took quite a pounding yesterday, all over.
- OneMan - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:27 am:
If that was his goal, the law was written in such as way as to toss much if not all of that aside.
It basically said anyone could object to anything.
So either he gave his work no thought (quite possible since it matched a law that had been proposed almost word for word in New York it appears)
But regardless, the desire to do something good was more than trumped by the poor way the bill was written. It is so poorly written IMHO that it puts everything he does into question for intellectual quality.
- Arthur Andersen - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:28 am:
Willy, it’s a good thing I didn’t already cut the eyeholes out of that bag.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:33 am:
Again, I didn’t read the bill, but what Rich posted yesterday regarding its basic premise and approach, I have to agree with OneMan regarding “intellectual quality.” You have to wonder who actually does the research for some of these bills…and/or who actually authors them.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:34 am:
(Still a horrible Peter Lorre, but “better” relatively speaking…_
“Yes …- AA - …Thank goodness you didn’t cut the holes …”
(shrugs shoulders at self at horrible impression and moves on from it.)
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:39 am:
This type of merciless ridicule is really the only way to stop legislators from introducing asinine bills. I bet Sen. Silverstein will review his draft bills more carefully now before he introduces them.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:40 am:
And I’ll take my last comment even one step further within a general context and not specific to Mr. Silverstein, his staff’s practices, and this bill.
There’s plenty of legislation and case law out there that should probably included when researching a bill–especially one like this. I wonder whether it would help our society overall if legislators and their staff were responsible enough to conduct that research and weigh potential success against backlash v. simply putting something out there to possibly pander to certain voting groups.
“Oh, look at me, I’m trying” isn’t an excuse for “Oh, boy; had no clue that this could encite the general public so.”
Especially when people are already upset over other issues.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:42 am:
(Two Anons, basically saying the same thing, but note the difference in “style.” Always a tell.)
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 10:56 am:
And BTW, Anon 10:39 my comment was not specific to the quality of, or preference for, our individual styles. I was merely stating that even when two people use the same handle, it’s not all that difficult to tell who is who if there’s consistency and previous examples of writing and “thinking” styles.
Even in those cases where someone tries to mimic another’s style (with or without the intent to “assume” their on-line identity for…whatever…purposes they may have). Which again, in this particuar instance, I am sure is not the case, Anon.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:02 am:
===This type of merciless ridicule is really the only way to stop legislators from introducing asinine bills.===
I hope whichever - Anonymous - posted that, that ALL - anonymous - es remember that too!!!
And …
“And please take a half second to come up with a nickname.”
===(Two Anons, basically saying the same thing, but note the difference in “style.” Always a tell.)===
Really? Now I have to rate “Style Points” and jargon??
You - Anonymous -, think we need to take the time to figure out who is who, when Rich specifically asks to “…please take a half second to come up with a nickname.”
Read the sencond sentence …”It makes following the posts easier for everyone… Thanks.”
It appears … you … are the one making it more difficult, so don’t blame us, please … thanks.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:03 am:
Four score and seven years ago, our forefathers brought forth on this continent…
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:09 am:
Herr Willy, in your world, would you rather that I be required to post my real name?
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:09 am:
To make it “easier” for you?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:11 am:
===Herr Willy, in your world, would you rather that I be required to post my real name?===
1) “Herr” … = Dopey.
2) Nah, But like you seem to show, courtesy is something you don’t give too often, so I thought I would try to show ya that asking EVERYONE to make sure they guess the “style points” and jargon, as not to offend you, is quite Dopey too.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:12 am:
===To make it “easier” for you? ===
Um, Rich … asked to make it easier… not me …
Again … Dopey.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:12 am:
===would you rather that I be required to post my real name? ===
I won’t speak for OW, but I, for one, would love it if you’d pick a handle that wasn’t auto-generated for people who are too lazy or inexperienced to choose their own names. C’mon. Enough, already.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:16 am:
I know, Rich. That was what you had asked when someone intentionally swiped the handle that I had been using pretty much exclusively during (and prior to) the last U.S. Senate race.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:18 am:
Rich,
It’s your Shop. I hope I didn’t offend you by pointing out what you ask of us.
You can speak for me on this issue, and thanks for understanding why I am “going there”
Thanks.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:18 am:
And funny that no one had ever commented negatively on my use of “Anonymous” on the blog until that time.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:22 am:
- Anonymous -,
Are you seriously going “back and forth” with Rich, about how he is running his blog,…
…and in regards to using a name that makes it difficult on EVERYONE, yet you want EVERYONE to deal with it?
“I’m Out!”
- 47th Ward - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:25 am:
===And funny that no one had ever commented negatively on my use of “Anonymous” on the blog until that time.===
Actually, that’s not true. I remember a long while back begging you to add something, anything to your handle because it is so annoying. You could add a symbol or a number or something so that we know it’s you. I also find it annoying that you complain when others use anonymous as if you somehow have a patent on it here.
But I’ve kept my keyboard shut since then. Now I know it’s you because, invariably, your first comment is followed by two or three more immediate follow-up and/or clarifications. I find that annoying too.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:27 am:
=Are you seriously going “back and forth” with Rich, about how he is running his blog,… =
No. I’ve always had great respect for the way Rich runs this blog, and have even defended him in instances where others have accused him of being rash (not that he needs to be defended). It’s all out there in my posts, which I believe even precede your “Oswego Willy” handle, Willy.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:32 am:
- Anonymous -
lol … do I use “the Google Key” for - Anonymous -, or another handle when looking for these…
See how silly it sounds when you are trying to defend yourself, and yet, if I look those up to please you, what name do I look up …lol
Further, really, you are going to play the, “I was here longer than you, na, na!” Card?
How about instead of playing “time arounnd”, or “I defended this or that”, ya just come up with even ONE word, so we know its you … for all of our sakes!
Yikes!
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:33 am:
Thank you for the feedback, 47th. I try to keep my keyboard shut, too, when it comes to others’ styles and choices.
Especially since–as far as I know–no one here gets paid to contribute to Rich’s blog.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:35 am:
Unless, of course, paid volunteer consultants do.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:36 am:
===Especially since–as far as I know–no one here gets paid to contribute to Rich’s blog.===
That a shot at … Us, … other … RICH?
Dude, you just need to chill, pick any word out of the dictonary for cripe’s sake and be done with this?
Do we need the hostility?
- Roadiepig - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:36 am:
Anonymous- considering almost all of the commenters here at Capitol Fax don’t use there real names, just handle , it would make common sense that anyone who writes comments here on a regular basis could feel free to post whatever they like (within Rich’s rules of course) , all the while using some made up name to identify themselves on this comment board. Like Rich said- makes it easier to follow threads without having to decide which anonymous said what
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:45 am:
- Anonymous -,
This is not a conspriacy against you. Instead of having to calrify so often which is or is NOT you, pick a name and be done with it. Making it easier on all of us, is not a bad thing, and heck, it might even clarify your thoughts as we try and floow whaere you are coming from, as opposed to guessing which ones go with which handle.
I know I hope you look at this as a chance to make yourself clearer for all who visit here, and not an attack, which it seems you are leaning towards, as your last few shots seem to be pointing to.
I took a breath, I hoe you do as well.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:47 am:
Anonymous, either change your name or quit complaining when others are just as lazy as you are.
OK, let’s move along now, please.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:50 am:
=I took a breath,=
You always seem to have to take breaths after sending out a barrage of posts mocking someone, Willy. I try to never use my anonymity for that.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:53 am:
Thank you, Rich, for the feedback regarding my “performance” and options that work for you. After everything that’s happened, I will choose to remain Anonymous then.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:55 am:
Sorry, Rich.
To the Post,
===There are many people who have a desire to speak out on issues affecting their lives that simply cannot do so under their real names out of fear of harassment, abuse, or physical harm: think of a high school student who secretly gay, a victim of domestic abuse, a whistleblower at a government or corporation, or the victim of an oppressive government.===
That really hits the nail on the head, for me, when talking about disclosure. As we have learned in the past 2 days, even the Founding Fathers thought anonymity was important in the conversations.
I am guessing here on this Blog, and other Illinois blogs, that anonymity makes it easier to express what someone knows or feels, without a boss, elected official, or a random poster calling someone out about who they are, or where they come from.
While the cyber-bullying is awful, the Ben Franklin quote for me, along with the passage cited above bring it home. Local athorities can find who they want pretty easily. Having the Silverstein Bill opened the eyes of many of what COULD be.
- The Commenter Formerly Known as Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:55 am:
. . . a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 11:56 am:
===You always seem to have to take breaths after sending out a barrage of posts mocking someone, Willy. I try to never use my anonymity for that.===
Seriously, you poke the Bears, and cry about being picked on?
Ya reap what you sow …
Apologies, Rich.
- Patrick Boylan - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 12:02 pm:
The State Senator’s reasoning about this is the same as the upset Chicago City Council is reported to have shown earlier this month when an ethics proposal would have allowed the IG to investigate anonymous complaints. Those anonymous complaints and comments really suck cause you can’t, you know, send a friendly building inspector over to visit the malcontent. https://soundcloud.com/wbez/ethics-meeting-at-city-council
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 12:13 pm:
…that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 12:15 pm:
Let us all know when you get to the 2nd Inagural…
- Endangered Moderate Species - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 1:01 pm:
Anonymous- Try annoymous; that handle is available.
- Just The Way It Is One - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 2:18 pm:
Hey, Bob, aka OW–it’s good to know ya. And yet, do we REALLy know for sure RP is just not another Pseudonym you could be usin’? And why not have fun with that possibility? After all, the guy threw the bill out and people identify themselves in more than one way all the time with other nicknames or subjects–like of other people who they aren’t IN REALITY but no one really knows for sure, right? Just sayin’…
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 2:37 pm:
Actually, I’m Jason.
I created Oswego Willy to mess with Dad.
You should see Dad freak when “Oswego Willy” would say something. I had to pretend I was all “That OW, how can he say that” and stuff, and Dad was all “That ’so-and-so’…”
So, there … I am Jason Plummer.
Sorry, Dad.
- Just The Way It Is One - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 2:45 pm:
Good work OW…Bob? Jason? The confusing the S— out of all of us process has begun! Now ain’t it fun?!!! Ah, free speech with Rich Miller-imposed limits…ya can’t beat it, can ya?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 2:47 pm:
- Just The Way It Is One -
To make sure …
===”Sock puppetry” is forbidden. All violators risk permanent banishmentwithout warning and may be blocked from accessing this site.===
So, if you are saying I am more than 1 person here, and its not snark, Rich runs a very tight ship, I would have been banned if I had done any of that.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 2:48 pm:
- Just The Way It Is One -,
That Rich does!
I will tell Dad hello.
Jason.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 2:50 pm:
- Just The Way It Is One -,
For me, the fun is also just letting other “be” … there is a reason they have a “name” here, and that is pretty cool too.
Who knows, - Just The Way It Is One -, I might even be your neighbor.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 2:59 pm:
But you are claiming to be more than one person, Willy. There’s you (who you sometimes claim is neither Jason, nor Robert), Jason, and now Robert, too.
Some may say that is more egregious than “sock puppetry”…in the real world.
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 3:13 pm:
I just don’t want to see you risk getting into any kind of trouble for doing something “dopey,” like what some politicians are criticized for doing.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 3:20 pm:
- Anonymous -,
Seriously?
This is starting to get embarrassing for you … again.
It’s sad. Maybe you need to asnwer that Oberweis question … lol
As Smilin’ Jack Ross said, “See you around campus.”
- Just The Way It Is One - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 3:22 pm:
Oh lighten up Anonymous. And OW, (I’ll go with that since puppets can be freaky) (but please don’t tell your Dad; I’d hate to hear he got upset!)you ARE my neighbor, fellow Land of Lincolner. And you too, Anonymous, wherever you’re posting from at the moment, which I suppose is the Prairie State, too…
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 3:31 pm:
- Just The Way It Is One -,
Bluto had great advice for times like this …
“Grab a brew, don’t cost nothin’”
- Anonymous - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 3:33 pm:
=This is starting to get embarrassing for you … again.=
Alright, Willy.
- Arthur Andersen - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 3:41 pm:
Willy, it’s funny. Circa 2006, before I settled on the AA handle (to tweak a certain former State budget official and some of his accounting tricks)I would use Anonymous, but stopped because I felt kinda like wimpy, ya know?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 3:44 pm:
- AA -
===After everything that’s happened, I will choose to remain Anonymous then.===
After everything, I think THAT ONE is my favorite.
Oh well.
Sorry about the Migraine, bud.
- Arthur Andersen - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 3:55 pm:
Willy, I have good meds and I’m going to go use them. Again.
#Dopinesscausesmigrainestoo
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 22, 13 @ 4:01 pm:
===#Dopinesscausesmigrainestoo===
Damp towel on your forehead helps.
I found that out from a poster on the internet, dunno his/her real name.
To the Post,
I wonder what state is going to try to regulate this first?