37 Comments - Formerly Known As... - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 11:48 am: And then they fail to provide any detail on the federal government’s reasoning. Is it consistent with the IRMA’s? Or is it something else? Are there other hurdles with this bill we are not clear on thus far? Or is it perhaps simply a procedural flaw in the plans of those other states? As the story points out, merchants card for all cigarette sales and that hasn’t let to the sky falling. Thanks for putting that at the end, and double thanks for leaving us hanging, SJ-R. - anon for a reason - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:01 pm: What burns my britches is in the grocery store with carts loaded with individual cans and bottles of soda pop, water, and energy drinks. The buyer will use multiple link cards. The purchases are for resale. This kind of fraud is easy to spot. I see it often. - wordslinger - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:01 pm: Red meat for the dwindling, yet-ravenous, base. Don’t forget those urine tests for the poor, too! And photo IDs to vote! If you’re going to make the checkers at the Jewels police officers, shouldn’t you empower them to make arrests, too? “Wait a minute, maam, your hair was longer in this photo — and a different color, too. Citizen’s arrest, citizen’s arrest!” Did you ever give your kid or your spouse or a friend your credit card to make a purchase? Did you notice the intense scrutiny they got from the clerk, lol. I saw this morning that GOP Chairman Preibus wants $10 million to fund an outreach program for minorities. He could save a few bucks by putting a brick on nonsensical stuff like this. - Montrose - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:08 pm: *What burns my britches is in the grocery store with carts loaded with individual cans and bottles of soda pop, water, and energy drinks. The buyer will use multiple link cards. The purchases are for resale. This kind of fraud is easy to spot. I see it often.* Have you ever reported it? USDA has investigators to deal with fraudulent use of LINK by both retailers & users. There is a system in place to deal with it, but it only works if they have information. Policy should not be set based on anecdotal observations such as this or Rose’s. There are real flaws with Rose’s bill that don’t even touch on the cost to the state of putting the infrastructure in place to put a photo on every card. Rose’s bill - and the many others like it out there - are cynical attempts to blame the most vulnerable it our society. - Small Town Liberal - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:19 pm: - I see it often. - Well it couldn’t be a welfare post without another one of these stories. Did they get into an Escalade when they went outside as well? Seriously, I go to Jewel about once a week in a very modest neighborhood, and I have never once seen this. I never once saw it when I lived in Springfield, either. I’m sure it happens, but I think it happens much more often in people’s minds than it does in real life. - downstate hack - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:25 pm: “As the story points out, merchants card for all cigarette sales and that hasn’t let to the sky falling.” I fail to see why merchants shouldn’t be required to check all ID’s on Link cards. They do if I want to use a check, or buy cigarettes. let’s get some form of control over link card expenditures. It just makes sense as Senator Chapin Rose points out. - Give Me A Break - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:31 pm: The feds allow a person to hand their card to someone and send them to the store to make purchases with that card. Maybe Rose could introduce a trailer bill that requires someone to hand a Notarized Letter of Permission to the clerk if they are using a LINK card. Or maybe Rose, Cavaletto, Bill Mitchell, McCann and Sacia could undestand the LINK program is a federal program and they are state lawmakers who don’t get to decide federal policy. - blogman - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:35 pm: Let the fraud continue. These cards are sold for 70 cents on the dollar. What a good investment! - anon for a reason - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:41 pm: Soda pop and energy drinks are more costly at Jewel. I see the purchases at Ultra Foods when they have drink sales. They drive minivans. The buyers are of all races. They own small stores where they sell the stuff to link card holders. There is no will to stop this fraud. Who else is going to run these small stores? If they were selling less soda pop and healthier things, it would not upset me. - Give Me A Break - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:42 pm: Blogman: If you know that for a fact, have you reported it? ISS, DHS and HFS would love to chat with you I’m sure. - Montrose - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 12:45 pm: *Let the fraud continue. These cards are sold for 70 cents on the dollar. What a good investment!* Again, if you have seen real fraud, report it. But, as Small Town said, these one off stories of people abusing the system take on a life of their own. Stop trying to use them to paint all folks that need a little help with a broad brush. - Both Sides Now - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:01 pm: I don’t think putting a photo on the Link card is necessary BUT I do think it is entirely correct to have the clerk ask for an ID when it is utilized. IRMA’s stance that it will be a burden and slow lines just doesn’t cut it. They ask for an ID or birthdate when we purchase cigarettes, alcohol, spraypaint and certain types of glue. We have to sign and provide information when we purchase certain kinds of what used to be “over the counter” drugs to make sure we’re not making Meth. Sometimes we have to provide an ID if we write a check or even use a credit card. Heck, sometimes we have to provide an ID at a bank if we’re getting cash back! We’re not trying to make the cashiers into police or pick on the poor - we’re simply trying to make those who deserve and use the benefits accountable for how they are utilized. - liberty4all - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:02 pm: The time will come when we the makers will no longer agree to pay for LINK cards for the takers. Idealogically, we don’t like or appreciate being required to fund fraud! - City Slicker - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:03 pm: It’s only painting with a broad brush when it is an issue you care about. For example I’d like to point out there is a lot of broad brush painting going on when a gun post comes up. The extent of which is much further than a picture on a card. - Judgment Day - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:04 pm: Yes, LINK card fraud on the street certainly exists, and it’s growing. But, bluntly, chasing down small dollar LINK card fraud is a waste of scarce resources. When you really take a look at the details involved in such enforcement, this just turns into a total non-starter. For example…… 1) In many newer stores, you can use your LINK card at a self cashiering station - even multiple LINK cards. What are you going to do? - make some poor employee watching over say, 6, 8, or even 10 auto cashiering stations check ID’s on each LINK card? Genius. That’s going to work out well…NOT. 2) There’s going to be all sorts of crazy circumstances that are going to occur. And many of them will be perfectly legitimate (but ‘unusual’). What, is each store going to have to follow a “LINK card procedures manual”? 3) Can you image law enforcement when they get a call from one of the big box grocery stores over cases of reported LINK card fraud? Oh, I know - we’ll just put a new in-store version of red light cameras over all the store checkout lanes. And not only can we deal with LINK card fraud, we’ll also be able to stick it to all those swine who bring 15 items into the “12 items or less” checkout lane. Yeah, that will work…. 4) If you look at this strictly from a regulatory effort, this proposal places increased regulatory burdens on stores (private business). I’m surprised this bill actually isn’t a Democratic legislative initiative. In short, let’s have a less mindless bureaucracy, please. - Give Me A Break - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:08 pm: Liberty: This a federal program. If Rose’s bill were to pass, guess who has to pay for the new LINK cards, the new equipment to take the photos and new staff to operate the equipment? Illinois does, let me repeat that, Illinois does. Guess who would keep the “millions” in fraud savings, the Feds, let me repeat that, the Feds. So you want Illinois taxpayers to foot the bill but never see any savings to the State because as I’ve said, its a federal program. - wordslinger - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:08 pm: –The time will come when we the makers will no longer agree to pay for LINK cards for the takers.– Are you presuming that everyone with a Link card is unemployed? Where do you get that? Food stamps are a government subsidy for low-wage employers. And without low-wage labor, Big Macher Makers like yourself would find life a lot more difficult. - Montrose - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:11 pm: *It’s only painting with a broad brush when it is an issue you care about. For example I’d like to point out there is a lot of broad brush painting going on when a gun post comes up. The extent of which is much further than a picture on a card.* Nope. It is painting with a broad brush when painting with a broad brush. Applies to income supports and guns alike. *The time will come when we the makers will no longer agree to pay for LINK cards for the takers. Idealogically, we don’t like or appreciate being required to fund fraud!* I refer the right honorable gentleman to answer I gave some moments ago. - bman - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:14 pm: It seems that fraudulent use of link cards is as important to government budgets as are pension reforms, what is wrong with link photo IDs? - Rich Miller - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:16 pm: ===The time will come when we the makers will no longer agree=== Kinda reminds me of some college friends back in the day. “Come the revolution…” they’d say all earnestly, with fists clenched. Only not quite. It’s like Trotsky in reverse. Or something. - Anonymous - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:26 pm: “Kinda reminds me of some college friends back in the day. “Come the revolution…” they’d say all earnestly, with fists clenched. Only not quite. It’s like Trotsky in reverse. Or something.” Rich- While I know you mean this tongue-in-cheek, I think there’s truth to it. The fastest growing faction of the Libertarians is college-age or recent graduates. I think they are wise to the reality that they will inherit the massive deficit their parents and grandparents are building for them… - Anon. - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:37 pm: Chicago Sun Times Nov. 30, 2012 Three south suburban men were charged in connection with a LINK card scheme that amassed more than $100,000 in cash and caused the closure of five grocery stores. This answers a lot of questions raised above. These stores are set up to defraud the system, hence people don’t have to buy stuff and re-sell it. Regular shoppers don’t see the crime. It’s an old story. Maybe Trotsky would have seen it if not for that hammer. - anon for a reason - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:39 pm: @ Anonymous.. You are correct. I had a conversation with a “friendly” college student last night. The anger over lack of opportunity compared to their elder’s lives is real. @ Judgement Day … you are correct. There is nothing in it for the State to get involved in a federal handout. It just seems wrong at times. - Montrose - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 1:47 pm: *Three south suburban men were charged in connection with a LINK card scheme that amassed more than $100,000 in cash and caused the closure of five grocery stores.* What I see is that there was a crime committed, and investigation was conducted to verify the veracity of that crime, and arrests made based on the evidence. I am pretty sure that is how the system is suppose to work. Are people saying that anytime any person does not follow a law it means that entire system is completely broken? For every anecdotal story of fraud a person can produce, I can produce ten stories of families using the support the way it is intended to make sure their kids can eat. I will be happy to go toe-to-toe with anyone on this one. - Precinct Captain - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 2:21 pm: Is this photo on cards push about ‘good government’ or hating the poor? Seems more like a thinly-veiled version of the latter, especially judging by the supporters of the measure in the comments. Of course, if we should make social assistance policy on the basis of anecdotal bad apples, then we should probably make gun policy that way too. Living poor ain’t easy. Maybe the “makers” should try it sometime like Morgan Spurlock did in an episode of 30 Days or like one family in a timely Washington Post story does. http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/food-stamps-put-rhode-island-town-on-monthly-boom-and-bust-cycle/2013/03/16/08ace07c-8ce1-11e2-b63f-f53fb9f2fcb4_print.html - Skeeter - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 2:44 pm: I can imagine the GOP meeting on this one: “Hey guys, what do you want to do today?” “I don’t know. How about we make life even more challenging for people who have nothing? Afterwards we can go out and talk about how we are the party of the traditional family values and how we are pro-life and are good Christians. You know Christ would never give anything to poor without first finding out if they were lazy and stuff.” “OK, but only if we can then hold a conference to find out why most of the voters think we only stand for bitter old white men.” “Cool, let’s do it!” That’s life for the ILGOP in 2013. - Judgment Day - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 2:47 pm: “Three south suburban men were charged in connection with a LINK card scheme that amassed more than $100,000 in cash and caused the closure of five grocery stores.” Rep. Chapin-Rose’s bill would do nothing in this type of case. These individuals were actually in the LINK program through their grocery stores, and were buying LINK card balances for anywhere from $.30 to $.50 on the dollar. They were then submitting these amounts for payment by USDA. Nice little profit. Except when the Fed’s get serious. This bill as proposed would simply drive the merchants nuts, and realistically, would just make everybody’s lives more miserable. Not a smart idea. - Anon III - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 2:52 pm: The real topic is how we deal with dysfunctions than are less than criminal behavior in our society. The particular dysfunction discussed here is that many of us cannot find sufficient employment to feed ourselves. There are also other dysfunctions, like not taking care of your kids, or being a gang-banger. I have read recently that in China, on the order of a policeman without hearing or trial, a person who is in some sense dysfunctional – including criticizing local authorities — can be sent to a work camp for “re-education.” In the Chinese system, they deal with dysfunctional persons by reducing that person’s civil rights. In our society and under our Constitution, we do not curtail civil rights on account of individual dysfunctions, we add additional civil rights called “entitlements,” in this case food stamps. Adding rather than subtracting rights is on the whole a more humane strategy and more calculated to lead to individual improvement of the recipient. - Arthur Andersen - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 3:48 pm: All AA can say is that I miss the Undertaker. - carbaby - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 4:22 pm: Apparently people are not aware that a good segment of the population are those with developmental disabilities, people who are medically fragile/mentally ill and seniors who receive LINK- many who can’t manage their finances, may be nonverbal, non-ambulatory who would not be able to have their caregivers/staff shop for them. But of course that would have meant doing some research(pulling data) of the population that receives LINK and meaningful discussion instead of the same tired “welfare queen” logic. The Feds went to the use of a standardized LINK card for benefits to reduce fraud. With the amount of judgement spouted about people receiving LINK/food stamp benefits, you would think that the recepients were living high. However, the monthly per person food stamp benefit is $139.45 in Illinois. Can you survive on that? That is food for thought. - Just The Way It Is One - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 5:01 pm: This is an excellent, long-overdue idea, with all of the fraud going on out there, and at our expense as tax-paying Illinoisans! - Demoralized - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 5:11 pm: ==This is an excellent, long-overdue idea, with all of the fraud going on out there, and at our expense as tax-paying Illinoisans! == If you know about all of this fraud going on maybe you should report it. Besides, a picture isn’t going to help. You swipe your card at the card swipe machines just like any other credit or debit card. A picture doesn’t do a lot of good there. I’ll guarantee you that nobody will be asking to see that card to see if the picture is that of the person using the card. It’s a solution looking for a problem. - Happy Returns - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 5:11 pm: Just, is it also an excellent idea to soend dollars chasing dimes? - Just The Way It Is One - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 5:22 pm: ==I guarantee you that nobody will be asking to see that card…== Oh I’m sure you could prove that representation! The point IS that the Retailer at check out should and probably will be mandated by LAW TO look at the Photo, and if they don’t, then the Store should be reported or sanctioned! If the Retailer/Owner expects that THEY can get in trouble, I think it far more likely that more of them will be far more RELUCTANT to sell items to those with inadequate, in effect, ILLEGAL IDs! - wordslinger - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 5:36 pm: –The point IS that the Retailer at check out should and probably will be mandated by LAW TO look at the Photo, and if they don’t, then the Store should be reported or sanctioned!== Pro-business, small-government solution. - jerry 101 - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 5:43 pm: Those horrible, money grubbing, takers. Like those people with severe autism spectrum disorders. They’re just sapping the makers dry. I guess they should just die and decrease the surplus population, amiright?!?! - Just The Way It Is One - Monday, Mar 18, 13 @ 5:57 pm: Oh, ‘cmon, this is not about quoting Charles Dickens and slamming the Poor! It’s about taking a lousy Photo to prove you are who you say you are–i.e. responsibility! Taken a look lately at your own Driver’s License? That is you, now, isn’t it? And if it wasn’t, wouldn’t that be a problem for you–and Illinois?! Give me a break. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.