41 Comments - wordslinger - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 9:27 am: Makes sense. The schools in my community generally have something going on to 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. most nights. They have plenty of stuff on Saturdays and even Sundays, too. - Both Sides Now - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 9:44 am: As usual - Chicago making rules for the state that don’t necessarily apply to all. I am certain that communities have the option to post and enforce school zone speed limits including times covered. There is no need for additional top-down laws. - John A Logan - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 9:48 am: Silly. It’s another example of misplaced attention. Local officials can handle the various needs of the various schools throughout the state. Another solution looking for a problem. - Roadiepig - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 9:48 am: I understand wanting to reduce accidents involving vehicles and children and the high numbers after school hours, but I didn’t see where those numbers are connected to being within any specific distance to a school. More children will get hit in those hours after school because that’s when children are outside and playing, whether near their school or more likely near their homes. Not sure extending the school zone hours would reduce child /vehicle accidents if at all. - Rod - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 9:52 am: Since Chicago is going to be putting speed cameras by schools the 20 mph limit will generate a lot of money. A classic case will be Senn High School which is located off Ridge Road at North Glenwood Avenue in the Edgewater community. Speed limit is 30 and suddenly drops to 20. Now it will drop to 20 for most of the day. The City did put school zone markers on the road but surely it will still be a big money maker. - Dan Bureaucrat - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 9:53 am: The main problem is knowing there is a child within 50 feet of the roadway. I’m not looking every direction when I drive. I’m looking at all the lanes ahead and behind and the sidewalks. I would just make those hours (4pm to 8pm) the slow down times. I’ve honestly never understood why we have to slow down while kids are stuck in class and accounted for. - Amalia - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:01 am: No. what about the elderly? or the physically disabled? or just plain slow walkers? are we less disposed to look out for them because there is not a sign posted near where they live, where they meet, anywhere they are? or extra hours for some notice? this is just more of the children’s bubble that seems symptomatic of the people formerly known as the carefree 60s and 70s era people. learning to cross the street safely was one of the first things we learned when we were, oh, about 5. school them up on that. - Allen Skillicorn - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:05 am: This is only being proposed to make Chicago’s ticket cameras more profitable by allowing them to be used around the clock. - Darienite - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:06 am: So this means that it’s 20 mph regardless. Spring break, summer recess, or in the middle of the day when class in in session. All the signs that say “when children are present” would need to be replaced”. Does anyone know if this is for elementary only, or does this include middle and high schools as well. Good intent run amok. It needs to be defeated. - Esquire - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:12 am: I agree with Rod. It is really going to be difficult to enforce fairly without penalizing motorists. Many Chicago Public Schools are located near major arterial streets. Extending the speed limits beyond school hours is going to be problematic in the extreme. By the way, when will the Chicago Police or the CPS crossing guards begin issuing tickets for the students who jaywalk frequently? Some of the militant students like to lock arms or cross against traffic in defiance of the red lights because it pleases them to force motorists to hit the brakes when they are “just playing.” Some even delight in running against traffic. This game of “chicken” occurs too often near CPS High School campuses. - shore - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:17 am: this is vintage nanny state politics. Nekritz should know better as gbn and gbs are near highways. What happens if it’s a teacher instead of a kid? How do you know if the person is 14 instead of 13 or 19 instead of 18? Allen and Amalia are right. We need to get off this “something isn’t perfect” in my community so lets create lots of new laws against it theme. - Downstate Illinois - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:22 am: I agree with the money-grabbing argument. The data mentioned has no connection with school zones, but from the simple fact that children are out of school during those hours. Most school zone signs I’ve seen have the words, “when children are present,” which makes sense. When kids are outside, slow down. When there are no kids, there’s no reduced speed limit. This idea should be dumped. - dupage dan - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:27 am: Schools are a 24 hour a day, sometimes 7 days a week center of activity for young folk. I have been treating them in that way for as long as I have been driving. This is a no brainer. - LisleMike - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:32 am: I agree with the “keep it local” argument. Local authorities have the ability and duty to address these problems as they are identified. The GA should be addressing problems that effect the whole state and can only be addressed state-wide. Anything to take the focus away from pension reform….c’mon GA focus! - Anonymous - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:34 am: I realize the knee-jerk reaction is to start a Chicago-downstate dialogue, but first we need some information. Cook County is a mish mosh of local roads, county roads and state roads. Some of the “state roads” are right in the middle of the cities/villages, as are some county roads. So — is there actually an option for locals to control this themselves, or do they need a state law? I.e., can cities or villages set the speed limits on streets within the city/village that are not city/village streets, but rather are county or state roads? If not, then a state law to deal with the topic is necessary. - Wumpus - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:35 am: A blatantly veiled attempt to increase ticket revenue. I call it “The Anti-Frogger Initiative”. - Nagidam - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:38 am: I think people are focusing on the wrong issue here. The data says that kids get hit at all hours of the day while near a school. This makes sense as we have tried to make schools a focal point for kids especially in gang infested areas. So the legislation says that people driving cars need to slow down at all hours of the day regardless of the time of year. The legislation is trying to fundamentally change driving behavior around schools to ultimately save our children’s lives. Yes it says within 50 feet of a school. The reality is that this part of the legislation is in response to rural schools that may have frontage on the road but the school grounds could be hundreds of yards from the roadway. In response to folks that say this is a money grab by Chicago to enhance their school speed cameras I say the opposite is the truth. Like seatbelt laws, this law is about behavioral change. When people start to change their driving behavior around schools they will automatically be driving slower. Rhambo’s cameras should actually become less of a revenue source than they are today. I am surprised da Mayor didn’t try to crush this legislation. - 3rd Generation Chicago Native - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:42 am: The House passed a bill last week would require drivers to slow down whenever a child was within 50 feet of the roadway in a school zone… I am assuming we can’t rely on the common sense of citizens to slow down when you see a child, school zone or not. - Ghost of John Brown - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:48 am: A rule like this might actually be counter productive. I’m a traffic engineer and have studied this. Let me explain. The amount of time that a child is within the area of a school crossing is actually pretty small compared with their day. What we subconciously tell kids with rules like this is “you’re safe. We are making everyone drive really careful for you” and the kids get a feeling of invincibility. Then, when the kids are 5 blocks away, they still feel invincible, but the drivers aren’t forced to change their behaviour. It’s far better for the kids to “feel” unsafe. Make them alert. Let them know that drivers have great big cars that can hurt them. Let them feel that way while they are at school AND when they are in their neighborhood. Remeber 30 years ago you saw the “Slow - Children” signs? You don’t see them anymore because plenty of studies have been done that show that they actually make the accident rate go up, not down for the same reason. The parents and the children think they are safe, but the drivers weren’t changing their behaviour. Teaching our kids that they have to keep themselves safe around vehicles is a lot more effective than silly laws. - Darienite - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 10:57 am: Thank you, Ghost of John Brown. BTW, this from the Active Transportation Alliance’s Mission Statement: “we will achieve a significant shift from environmentally harmful sedentary travel to clean active travel.” I think that’s code for “We will make car travel so difficult that they will give up their cars for bicycles”. - Cincinnatus - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 11:00 am: I believe that there may still be one or two areas of our lives where the government has not regulated behavior. Get to work, GA! No good intention goes unfunded… - wordslinger - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 11:08 am: –I believe that there may still be one or two areas of our lives where the government has not regulated behavior.– What’s your point? No auto speed limits? - titan - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 11:17 am: This would be better handled by allowing locals to post the “slow” hours as whatever they deem warranted by the use hours for the school facilities and other relevant factors. - RedLightDoctor.com - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 11:54 am: An investigation of the Chicago Public School system reveals they have no student pedestrian safety program. Cameras can’t replace student education, s clear cut case of student safety for profit… - Amalia - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 11:54 am: @Darienite, yes, the move to make it more difficult to use cars is way more infringing on my life than any attempts to make it even a bit more difficult for my husband and his guns. - RedLightDoctor.com - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 11:55 am: Even crossing guards have no training program… - Ghost - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 12:07 pm: I think we need to consider cause and effect. I.e the giant assumption here is that these accidents are the result of vehicle speed and sleeping down would fix them. However the above data shows generally the same number of accidents at 30 as when the limit drops to 20. Anecdotally the accidents I am aware of we’re kids not crossing at crossing walks, running out into the street etc. perhaps if we want to make things safe we would be better off to hire people to keep kids from crossing outside of crosswalks, putting in pedestrian bridges and move pickup driveways off of main roads and to the back of school property. This looks like a feel good solution that won’t effectively fox the problem. As mentioned, the data shows the accidents occur when the kids are out. Also the new standard is a nightmare. Driving by at night some kid dressed all in dark clothes darts into the road and I am liable for not seeing them? Where is the mandate for parents to stop dressing kids in clothes that make them hard to see or teaching them where to cross. Looks like lots of litigation and no accountability to kids or parents. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 12:10 pm: ===Anecdotally the accidents I am aware of we’re kids not crossing at crossing walks, running out into the street etc. perhaps if we want to make things safe we would be better off to hire people to keep kids from crossing outside of crosswalks, putting in pedestrian bridges and move pickup driveways off of main roads and to the back of school property.=== Yes, let’s spend billions of dollars on salaries and bridges instead of just requiring slightly slower speeds. - Cincinnatus - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 12:12 pm: That is not my point at all, Wordslinger, and you know it. - wayward - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 12:23 pm: I’m a little confused — never got a ticket in a school zone, but I thought the language about children being present meant that if it was a school day and you could see anyone short or young nearby, you had to slow down. - Fed up - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 12:39 pm: I would agree this is an obvious attempt by Rahm to boost his money haul from speed cameras in school zones. The cited statistics point out children are most often hit by cars after school has let out. It does not say these accidents happened anywhere near schools. Kids in Chicago play in streets and alleys after school and at night. Perhaps we should pass laws for parents to be responsible for their kids in the street. - Darienite - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 12:42 pm: “Yes, let’s spend billions of dollars on salaries and bridges instead of just requiring slightly slower speeds.” Rich, in Darien there is an elementary school at 75th and Cass - 30,000+ vehicles per day go through that intersection. So Yes, a ped bridge would be a safer alternative, and cheaper than moving the school. But if CPS doesn’t have a student pedestrian program, it should. - James C. Walker - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 12:51 pm: The rea$on$ thi$ i$$ue come$ up are obviou$ to mo$t ob$erver$. There are SO many dangers for school children at 4 am in the middle of July !!! The same is true for all practical purposes at 10 am and 2 pm when 100% of the children are to be in the building - not going to and from school. When predatory traffic laws are so obviously for revenue and not for realistic safety hazards, the respect for all traffic laws and compliance with them will reduce to near zero. IF Chicago actually cared about safety for kids, the zones would have flashing lights for the hours just before and after school, for lunch times IF kids are allowed off the grounds, and for evening or weekend times when there was an ACTUAL function occurring. But this logical safety-based approach would not produce much ticket revenue because people would respect the genuine danger times. So Rahm and his supporters want 24/7/365 enforcement for MONEY, MORE MONEY AND EVEN MORE MONEY. It is a scam. James C. Walker, Life Member-National Motorists Association - Arthur Andersen - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 12:55 pm: In some cases “within 50 feet of a school” here in the Patch including a street I drive daily would be inside a house. Solution in search of a problem. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 2:21 pm: “I would agree this is an obvious attempt by Rahm to boost his money haul from speed cameras in school zones.” Well, let’s see: because Redflex was caught bribing city officials and their relatives the contract was scuttled. That caused a big delay in camera installation, which killed the city’s revenue projections for 2013. So, now Rhambo wants legislation which effectively increases his time windows to collect money, which will help with the budget shortfall. But of course this is not about money. Not at all. It’s for the kids. Sniff. Right, wordslinger? - Allen Skillicorn - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 2:22 pm: I’m curious, using the stats privided by the Tribune how many crashes were caused by vehicle speed? How many would have been prevented if the speed limit was lower? Counter point, how many would have been prevented by engineering solutions? In my experience, I slow down when I see children or pedestrians. You can’t legislate common sense. - Ghost - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 2:37 pm: == Yes, let’s spend billions of dollars on salaries and bridges instead of just requiring slightly slower speeds. === But if slightly slower speeds do not actually address the problem, whats the point? Engage in an ineffectual response to avoid actually fixing the problem? if we do not want to fix the problem because of cost, which is a valid consideration, then lets just leave it alone. But impotent action clothed as a solution is not really a solution - wordslinger - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 2:47 pm: Anon 2:21, I’m against any tickets being issued by cameras. I spent hours beating tollway tickets caused by someone else’s muddy plate. I’m just saying kids are around schools all day, not just during school hours. So slow down. - us436 - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 3:56 pm: ==”this is vintage nanny state politics” I’m not sure how this is qualifies, since “nanny state” laws tend to try to protect people from themselves, while this proposal seems intended to protect children from other people. Also, perhaps I’m just oversimplifying this a bit, but is it possible that the reason there are more crashes in this time frame is because there are simply more cars on the road? The 3:00 number tends to support the premise behind the bill, but after that, the numbers seem to track rush hour traffic. - Arthur Andersen - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 4:39 pm: Upon further reflection, and since all politics is local, I might like this. Casa AA is 2 blocks from a grade school. School zones run parallel and perpendicular to my street. If I’m reading this correctly, Elaine would give cover to my neighbors’ kids who like to play in the driveways after school until the streetlights come on. Might be good for property values. We even have a big shot in the local five-o right there to call in the troops. - tch02 - Tuesday, Apr 23, 13 @ 8:21 pm: I continue to be amazed at the number of “laws” that are created for the purpose of (insert your purpose here). Why don’t they stop making laws, or better yet, for every law created, one gets deleted! Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.