60 Comments - wordslinger - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:16 pm: If it’s going nowhere in the Senate….. Back to square one? - Bill White - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:19 pm: See? Who says Pat Quinn isn’t a leader? /snark - Cincinnatus - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:19 pm: How is the NRA scoring this vote? Todd? - WizzardOfOzzie - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:20 pm: Shows what happens when Rahm goes up against the Speaker in Springfield. - John Boch - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:20 pm: It’ll pass the Senate. Speaker Madigan, like him or hate him, has 10x the legislative power as Gov. Quinn. Speaker Madigan has indicated he wants this bill to pass. It will pass. Quinn will veto it, in all likelihood. Which means IL FOID-cardholders will likely get “unregulated” carry come June 9th until this gets sorted out. John - Rich Miller - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:22 pm: ===Speaker Madigan has indicated he wants this bill to pass. It will pass.=== It ain’t gonna pass the Senate as is. And I’ll bet you a hundred bucks on that. This ain’t about Quinn, it’s about Cullerton. He doesn’t even have to call it. Make it a thousand bucks. - Mason born - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:23 pm: So Raouls bill can’t get enough votes to even have a vote in the Senate. Is completely Dead on Arrival in the House. Now Quinn is going to try to stop House bill in Senate. Where was that leadership question again?? I have always assumed Quinn would veto anything saying it isn’t Strict enough for him if not just for Political purposes. At this rate the chaos of June 9th is inevitable. - Rich Miller - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:23 pm: Also, John, if it did pass the Senate (which it won’t) it would require a three-fifths majority. That means enough veto override votes are baked into the roll call. - Don Gwinn - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:24 pm: President Cullerton is free to decide whether he wants to be the one responsible for sending Illinois over “The Cliff.” I hope he’ll take his time and consider carefully. - Rich Miller - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:25 pm: ===President Cullerton is free to decide whether he wants to be the one responsible for sending Illinois over “The Cliff.”=== C’mon. Do you really think this is the last vote on this topic? - Mason born - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:28 pm: Rich Procedural Question. Quinn can keep it on his desk for a certain number of days before vetoing it or signing? Add to that once it is vetoed house and senate would have to come back in session to override? That is a lot of days he gets to blast LM for not appealing and doing what he told her. - D P Gumby - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:29 pm: It is not a sure thing that “unregulated” concealed carry will result from the Court’s opinion if the GA doesn’t act. Court opinions are not self-actuating. - Mason born - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:32 pm: Doesn’t this bill essentially kill Raouls? If you were for CCW but thought Raouls bill was the best you were going to get so willing to vote for it. Having this out there should make the Raoul bill completely unpalatable. - Logic not emotion - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:34 pm: If Cullerton doesn’t put it to vote, then his earlier comments in Southern Illinois about allowing a vote on concealed carry legislation were certainly disingenuous. This bill is about as restrictive as most of the pro-gun rights folks can support. In fact, many are opposed. - LittleLebowskiUrbanAchiever - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:36 pm: Quinn has 60 days to act on a bill from the date he receives. GA has 30 days to send it to him, but if a compromise bill passes I’m sure they’ll send it rift away. - Agricola - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:36 pm: ==Procedural Question. Quinn can keep it on his desk for a certain number of days before vetoing it or signing? == The Governor has 60 days once it arrives on his desk (Ill. Const. Art. IV sec. 9(b)) or it becomes law without his signature. - Logic not emotion - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:37 pm: Do you sometimes feel this has nothing to do with firearms; but is instead positioning for the Democratic gubernatorial primary with Quinn wanting to use the issue against Lisa M and Mike M trying to get it resolved before it can become one? - Rich Miller - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:39 pm: === Quinn wanting to use the issue against Lisa M and Mike M trying to get it resolved=== Yes to part one, No to part two. - wordslinger - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:41 pm: –Do you sometimes feel this has nothing to do with firearms; but is instead positioning for the Democratic gubernatorial primary with Quinn wanting to use the issue against Lisa M and Mike M trying to get it resolved before it can become one?– I do. Quinn got the NRA to start pushing conceal-carry in ever state legislature in the country back in the 80s in anticipation of this very moment. Talk about three-dimensional chess. - Langhorne - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:42 pm: Leadership Qs pronouncement, and the response is? The desired outcome is? The landscape is changed how? - TheGoodLieutenant - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:42 pm: Tell me if I am wrong, but this is a Senate Bill that was already passed (albeit as something entirely different). Doesn’t it go back to the Senate for concurrence, in an up or down fashion ie. no additional amendments? - east central - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:42 pm: So much high-stakes, high-interest, legislation up for vote in the next few days. Does the leadership keep Excel spreadsheets with all the deals and trades for member votes? Will anything major pass both chambers before a whole package is assembled including CC, SSM, pension cuts, pension cost shift, etc? - Small Town Liberal - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:47 pm: What can I say Word, Quinn is almost as crafty as Obama’s mother when she had a Hawaiian newspaper run a birth announcement in anticipation of his run for POTUS. Lol. - OneMan - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:55 pm: STL — Quinn may not be crafty, but he isn’t one to let an opportunity go by. It is going to make a hell of a campaign ad.. Lisa Madigan refused to fight in the courts to keep concealed guns off our streets, away from our children… But Pat Quinn did fight…. - Jackhole - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:56 pm: It doesn’t matter what Cullerton or Quinn want. Simple fact is, they only have 5 working days to pass it or pass something else, or it is constitutional carry if you have a FOID. The FOID is still legal. - Mason born - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 1:58 pm: I have no doubt Quinn is furious at the Ban being struck down. That being said i also think he is more than willing to exploit the issue for the primary especially since the primary is the only real challenge he is liable to get. - Steve - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:08 pm: This will not be the last vote. Why? No way Chicago Democrats don’t want CTA riders packing heat and deterring flash wilding. Without a new law: CTA riders could be packing. That would be way too much freedom for Chicago politicians to deal with. Even if June 9 passes by : there probably will be a new law by the end of the year. - MOON - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:08 pm: ONE MAN What makes you think Lisa would not file in the courts to keep concealed guns off the street? - Jackhole - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:16 pm: @ MOON, because Lisa knows that her appeal will fall on deaf ears. She had already requested appeal, which court decided not to hear. If she has nothing that’s a substantive change from last time, you will get same result. Illinois will not live with Contstitutional carry, therefore, Senate will grudgingly sign, and immediately begin working on amendments. - Steve - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:16 pm: Moon: She could , but federal district court judge probably will not do anything because Judge Posner wrote an opinion. - Mason born - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:18 pm: To me if Quinn veto’s and the legislature overrides him he gets the best of both worlds. He can’t be blamed for going over the so called “cliff” because the legislature overrode him. Meanwhile he gets to blame her for not filing cert. She can’t file cert because the case is moot. From a political standpoint it is a win-win. If i am missing something please tell me. - Law - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:21 pm: Well, if a bill doesn’t pass both houses and get signed by the governor, the house version will most likely become the law of the state by default when the 7th circuit weighs in. - Livewire - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:25 pm: Quinn can say anything he wants, but I just want him to remember what happened when he jacked around with the budget bill last time! The house and senate HATE when he messes with things. - OneMan - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:27 pm: Moon… More or less what everyone else said. The easy political thing to do would have been to have a press conference and file and appeal. However there is a very real risk things could go much worse in the next two rounds… Also a political ad and a true reflection of reality are two different things. This is going to be an ad for someone, mark my words. - Brian G - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:28 pm: Power hungry Chicago pols can’t stand the thought of citizens not being under their guiding thumb. The vast majority of the city is a cesspool. I say cut them loose and let the rest of us live free. - Steve - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:31 pm: Just think how much better “behaved” the gang bangers will act if they knew John Q. Public was packing on the CTA? - Anonymous - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:37 pm: OK, so the Senate does not pass the bill, or it does and Quinn vetos. Can LM submit her appeal the first week of June and get a Supreme court stay of the lower court decision, pending the Supreme’s consideration of whether or not th hear the case? That might buy 60 more days. - Chicago Cynic - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:40 pm: Brian and Steve, It’s pretty obvious neither one of you has spent any time here. Most of this City is not remotely a cesspool. How come is it that I can respect your rights to stockpile your weapons on the family farm in Jo Daviess county, but you can’t respect those of us who live here and know it’s a horrendously bad idea to have everyone packing on the CTA? - the Patriot - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:40 pm: U just got punked Quinn. Madigan made you go nuts which means you have no chance of grabbing enough votes to beat Lisa next year(if you had a chance). I forget the rules, but if it does not pass by the 31st, does it need a supermajority? 85 is not a poll, it is a message. Chicago democrats signed on and Madigan still holds the purse. Will Cullerton risk his leadership in a battle with Madigan on this? If he won’t call a vote, then he knows he is in the minority which means Madigan can have his job if he wants it. Cullerton has to call it for a vote or he is finished. Law, not gonna happen. If not bill passes, then the status quo is the law, foid card is the only restriction. - dogboy - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:44 pm: Once again, Rich Miller has proven himself to be is full of crap. Not only will this bill pass the Senate, but so will AT&T’s bill. Miller writes a fun little blog, but clearly doesn’t understand politics. - PJ - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:45 pm: Me, I can care less if it passes or not. Come June 09, 2013 @ 2399hrs I’m opening a bottle to celebrate what has come to be a pee’ing match between Rahm and the rest of the state. - Mason born - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:46 pm: dogboy You might want to go back to the Illinois Review. - G. Willickers - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:47 pm: @ Word - “Talk about 3 dimensional chess” I now need to clean the Pepsi off my screen. No wonder Obama calls Quinn “Mr. Birth Certificate”. – @ Steve - “Just think how much better “behaved” the gang bangers will act if they knew John Q. Public was packing on the CTA?” Despite the fact that 98% of America has CCW we still have te most gun deaths, by far, if any civilized country on earth. Clearly, the experiment with carrying loaded guns around has failed. It is not preventing gun deaths. In fact, despite CCW we have the most gun deaths. - Demoralized - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:51 pm: ==Which means IL FOID-cardholders will likely get “unregulated” carry come June 9th until this gets sorted out.== If you think it will be unregulated you would be wrong. Watch for the glut of local ordinances to start popping up. - uwaga - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:52 pm: It’ll be fun seeing how many folks get pinged by LEO’s driving through or attempting to carry through the 200+ various home rule areas in the state. - G. Willickers - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:54 pm: @ the - “Law, not gonna happen. If not bill passes, then the status quo is the law, foid card is the only restriction.” Wrong. If no legislation is passed AND signed by Gov. Quinn then the FOID card and the hundreds, maybe even thousands, of local ordinances at villages, park districts, forest preserves, libraries, school districts, community colleges, etc. will the restrictions. Those advocating for lax gun laws keep thinking Illinois will turn into Arizona — guns allowed practically everywhere — just because some right-wing politicians in robes legislated from the bench. Wrong. The state law banning CCW may go away on June 9th barring any new legislation. But, local ordinances restricting where guns are and are not permitted will still be in effect. That said, someone above said Lisa Madigan appealed to SCOTUS (wrong) and it was rejected (also wrong). She did not appeal. She filed essentially for an extension on whether or not she could appeal. It was approved. - Rich Miller - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 2:55 pm: ===Not only will this bill pass the Senate=== Read this, dingbat: https://capitolfax.com/2013/05/24/cullerton-violently-opposed-to-parts-of-offensive-house-concealed-carry-bill/ - Charlatan Heston - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:00 pm: @Chicago Cynic- I have…every day….And “everyone”? C’mon…not everyone in Chicago has an FOID and not everyone who has one will apply for CCW. That aside, I think there are lots of folks already packing in Chicago and not just the “gangbangers.” - Jackhole - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:00 pm: @ Chicago cynic. You’re right about the city not being a cess pool everywhere. The south and west side has most of the shootings and gangbangers where the north side has most of the rapes, beatings, robberies, muggings, etc. The east has an E Coli polluted water source. Oh wait, you’re not right. And yes, I have lived in the Chicago area for 30 years. - G. Willickers - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:03 pm: @ Demoralized - “If you think it will be unregulated you would be wrong. Watch for the glut of local ordinances to start popping up.” Many of them already exist. Most news outlets are reporting in various Chicago ordinances that the Phelps bill usurps. But a lot if suburban towns have either specific or general restrictions. My schools and parks have “no weapons” policies right now. Kind of superfluous when there is a statewide CCW ban already, but very pertinent if the legislature and Quinn can’t agree by June 9th. (Just in case all you manly gun toters are wondering if you can bring a loaded gun to the playground. The answer is no.) - OneMan - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:06 pm: So Rich, designate a charity for this years ‘Overtime in Hell’ T-Shirts? Some early suggestions – I got your concealed carry right here. – Look it’s Rich’s puppy – What would Oswego Willy do. - Jackhole - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:07 pm: @ G Wilikers: You are not correct. Court to Lisa Madigan: No rehearing on concealed-carry guns ruling. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-02-22/news/chi-concealed-carry-illinois-20130222_1_appeals-court-concealed-carry-lisa-madigan She did get an extension til June 24 I believe to appeal original ruling, however it wasn’t heard before because they refused to acknoledge her request other than a decision had been made by Posner. Her only recourse is full appeal. - wordslinger - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:10 pm: Steve, I’ve been riding the CTA twice a day, five days a week for about 25 years. I’ve seen some things, but I’m not familiar with “flash wilding.” From your experience riding the rails, how would you describe it? My advice for the CTA these days? Tuck in your chains and keep your smart phones holstered. And please — let them get off the train before you try to get on? How hard is that? - dupage dan - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:12 pm: dogboy……. === !!! TROLL ALERT !!! === - Quinn T. Sential - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:21 pm: The constitutionality of the challenged statutory provisions does not present factual questions for determination in a trial. The evidence marshaled in the Skoien case was evidence of “legislative facts,” which is to say facts that bear on the justification for legislation,as distinct from facts concerning the conduct of parties in a particular case (“adjudicative facts”). See Fed. R. Evid.201(a); Advisory Committee Note to Subdivision (a) of1972 Proposed Rule [of Evidence] 201. Only adjudicative facts are determined in trials, and only legislative facts are relevant to the constitutionality of the Illinois gun law. The key legislative facts in this case are the effects of the Illinois law; the state has failed to show that those effects are positive. We are disinclined to engage in another round of historical analysis to determine whether eighteenth-century America understood the Second Amendment to include a right to bear guns outside the home. The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside. The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive)is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense. Illinois had to provide us with more than merely a rational basisfor believing that its uniquely sweeping ban is justified by an increase in public safety. It has failed to meet this burden. The Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment therefore compels us to reverse the decisions in the two cases before us and remand them to their respective district courts for the entry of declarations of unconstitutionality and permanent injunctions. Nevertheless we order our man-date stayed for 180 days to allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public. REVERSED AND REMANDED , WITH DIRECTIONS ;BUT MANDATE STAYED FOR 180 DAYS Appeals from the United States District Courts for the Central District of Illinois and the Southern District of Illinois.Nos. 3:11-cv-3134-SEM-BGC and 3:11-cv-405-WDS-PMF — Sue E. Myerscough and William D. Stiehl Judges ARGUED JUNE 8, 2012 — DECIDED DECEMBER 11,2012 http://www.scribd.com/doc/116435469/7th-Circuit-Court-overturns-Illinois-concealed-carry-ban - Chicago Cynic - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:30 pm: Jackhole, Chicago area is not Chicago. What, you live in Wheaton and work in Elmhurst? Give me a break. I lived in the city for 30 years and even though I recently moved out, still have my office downtown. And not to tempt fate, but the only time I’ve ever been the victim of a crime was when I was parked in the Northern suburbs 25 years ago. I don’t own a gun and don’t live in fear. It’s all you brave boys out there in the middle of nowhere that seem to be terrified. - Just The Way It Is One - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 3:34 pm: John d’amico being on the list–pathetic, and FROM Chicago should know better. But why am I shocked when he’s the one having sponsored the ludicrous “one size fits all” cell phone hand-held restriction bill?! In the name of safety re. cell phones–yeah, right!–but then he altoGETHer ignores stronger safeguards for Chicagoans and Cook Countyers (with a goodly number of Suburbanites hugging the City ALso in his District)and all of the well-known/publicized, serious handgun crime-related problems in his own home town of Chicago with his feeble support of the weak and severely/roundly-criticized House conceal-carry bill that is D O A in the Senate…just downright pathetic, and OBviously inconsistent!! - tofriendscreek - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 4:14 pm: Through all the huffing, puffing & fluffing, whether local, State or Federal, I see nothing in the “gun control” corner(s) which will or would or even could deter the criminal element. Everyone runs around throwing horseshoes, but fail to see there are no “ringers.” Just as locks are to deter law abiding criminals, all the checks and regulations in the world will not stop anyone from doing a dastardly deed. We as a society don’t enforce the billions of laws we already have. IMHO, this and most other stuff pontificated by politicians is about power - period. - Ryan - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 4:18 pm: Quinn is Gov. Jello. His words mean little. The actual power lies with Madigan and Cullerton. Quinn might veto the bill. But if it gets enough votes to even get to his desk, it has enough votes to override his veto. - walkinfool - Friday, May 24, 13 @ 9:15 pm: I might go for the $100, except for the strict requirement it pass “as is” — I do think something close to it will pass, without major local carveouts. What’s the bet on the Cullerton vs. Madigan pension bills? [IR: We’re not really wagering online, it’s just a turn of phrase.] Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.