88 Comments - RNUG Fan - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 9:45 am: Cullerton wanted the magazine bill too and couldn’t do it. I think that is important to note when the media or commentators think he could magically change the Senates thinking on pensions. I would have like the magazine thing too…But I wish it was over …I just dont think it is so Rich the hot comments will be back sometime - RNUG - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 9:50 am: Even though it will be past the deadline, my guess is Quinn lets it become law without his signature. - veritas - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 9:51 am: ===The bottom line up front is that anyone who feels that the war has now been won is sorely mistaken.=== The war? The misconceptions continues that the NRA speaks for gun owners. It does not. I have been a lawful gun owner for over 40 years and am at odds with most of the NRA platform. The notion that the definition of “the right to bear arms” has not changed, with the evolving definition of “arms”, is simply ludicrous. Will the “war” be won when I can carry a short-range missile launcher in the back of my pick-up truck? - wordslinger - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 9:52 am: I’m sure Quinn will veto, but it will be overridden. –The bottom line up front is that anyone who feels that the war has now been won is sorely mistaken. The government of Illinois is not any less anti-gun today than it was at this time last year. Passage of this concealed carry bill has not transformed Illinois into Texas by any stretch of the imagination.– Gee, and I was hoping conceal-carry would make the ISRA happy. They’ve been so down in the dumps. Believe it or not, some don’t want Illinois transformed into Texas. We’ll take some oil and gas with fracking, but still teach the kids in public schools that the oil was formed over millions of years, not while Fred, Wima and Dino were living together. - RNUG Fan - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 9:54 am: Do you think he will sign it and try to add on Magazines? - HenryVK - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 9:58 am: Instead of all of that, the ISRA could have just written “Please keep sending us checks.” That was pretty clearly the point. - OneMan - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 9:59 am: Me thinks he will veto the thing, wait on the courts and blame Lisa for not appealing. - Cassiopeia - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:00 am: Given Quinn’s past erratic history I think he will attempt some sort of rewrite and/or outright veto. He has a well-developed tin ear to any counsel other then his own. - New Name - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:00 am: Rich, you call the ISRA’s screed “holding back”? Here’s the problem - the pro-gun minority thinks they’re at “war” with the common sense majority. We are all Illinoisans. I’m not at war with Vandermyde, Pearson, Gwinn, etc. If anything, I’m at war against the morons who abuse the ever-dwindling, overly-loose gun-related laws we do still have in this country. I’m not concerned about the president of the ISRA walking up to a grocery store and killing several people while trying to assassinate a Congresswoman. I’m concerned that the slippery slope before us leads directly to more Jared Lee Loughners. Everything he did was legal in Arizona, right up to the point where he shot people. Why the ISRA refuses to see that is beyond me. - Langhorne - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:02 am: I wouldnt be surprised if one side or the other discovers some flaw, or unexpected consequence, at the state or local level. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:04 am: ===Rich, you call the ISRA’s screed “holding back”?=== I said they were holding back on their jubilation. Big dif. - Louis Howe - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:05 am: There will always be some attempt by the Gun Lobby to kick into the paranoid willful ignorance of gun enthusiasts. I lived long enough to see three of my NRA friends, who were convinced that owning a gun protected them from God knows what, use their gun to commit suicide. All were very bright, successful and respected men in their communities. Two were multi-millionaires and the other enjoyed a six figure state pension. Expanding concealed carry will now become the annual round up the chumps call by legislators too timid or incompetent to address the real problems facing Illinois government. - New Name - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:11 am: @ Rich - understood. Yes. Big difference. Message from ISRA was still over the top IMHO. - HenryVK - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:12 am: Regarding a prediction on Quinn. Initially, I’m not sold on the fact that he is going to run for reelection. If he is going to run, expect a veto of some sort. The goal will be to tie Lisa to the bill. He will do it simply to claim that while she refused to take the appeal up, he was working hard to keep guns out of the hands of . . . If he’s not running, he may go the opposite direction with an eye to avoid annoying people as he seeks his next job. - Confused - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:15 am: “Will the “war” be won when I can carry a short-range missile launcher in the back of my pick-up truck?” Like the oft-made but incorrect statements about private ownership of tanks, you can do this now. Heck, my son made a short-range missile in Boy Scouts (as did I when I was his age). Didn’t you ever read the book or see the movie “October Sky?” - Support the Second - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:15 am: Banning people from voicing their opinion opposite of yours is weak. Let the truth be. High cap mags don’t kill people. Guns don’t kill people. Mentally instable people kill people. If the mentally instable person doesn’t find a gun or a high cap mag but is hell bent on killing, they could use a rock. These can be found anywhere and you don’t need a background check to get one. - Mokenavince - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:18 am: It looks like we have joined the Union with the rest of the States. There is plenty in this that we all would like to change. And the beat goes on. - RonOglesby - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:20 am: one thing this bill (and things like the AWB and mag ban bill) has shown as that while we are not Texas (hat tip @wordslinger) we are also NOT New York or California… We are still a mid-western state. A blue one, yes, for the most part, but with what I think is some mid-west common sense. Does it mean we move slower on some issues (like gay marriage)? yes. It also means that we move slower on knee jerk stuff it seems. We should remember, that for all the talk about us being a diverse state, that also means that we are not all left or all right. This session has kind of shown that hasn’t it? - Palos Park Bob - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:26 am: =who were convinced that owning a gun protected them from God knows what, use their gun to commit suicide.= Louis, I REALLY hope you’re smarter than to propose that having the guns in any way motivated them to tragically take their lives. There are many other less gory ways of getting that job done were guns not available. I certainly sympathize with those suffering from the tragic events of Newtown, but if a psycho wanted to kill a room full of kids, there were a lot of ways to do that without having a gun. Just ask the surviving families and terribly injured victims at the Boston Marathon…. - Small Town Liberal - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:27 am: - These can be found anywhere and you don’t need a background check to get one. - Strange then that more mentally unstable folks choose not to use them, isn’t it? - Skirmisher - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:28 am: Dan Baum’s article is great analysis. I differ with him on one point only: Most of my “gun-guy’ friends are quite well educated- engineers, lawyers, physicians, etc. And, it is insulting to refer to all of us as the “Gun Lobby”. Few of us belong to the NRA, or ISRA, or to the Tea Party for that matter. But we all fervently want government to trust that shooters are not a criminal class and just leave us alone to responsibly enjoy doing what we enjoy doing. - Allen Skillicorn - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:29 am: I do not think the ISRA was “holding back on their jubilation”. Many members and Pro 2nd Amendment types do believe this bill was too rescrictive and too expensive. Many believed that IL was headed for Constitutional carry after court ruling. To me that email was very matter of fact and nothing more. Since the bill passed with veto proof majorities, wouldn’t a Quinn veto be purely academic? Would it go back to be overidden or just be implemented without delay with or without Quinn’s veto? Allen - NRA, iCarry, & ISRA member - Bird man - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:35 am: I am sure he will sign, he has been backed into a corner. - Hedley Lamarr - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:36 am: Aren’t we headed to a brief but possibly longer period of constitutional carry that starts June 10? Won’t Quinn need to sign, or the GA override a veto prior to June 10 for us to avoid constitutional carry? - Anyone Remember? - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:37 am: Support the Second - This is Rich’s place. If he wants to delete someone’s comments, he can (and I’ve had that happen to me). If he wants to ban someone, he can (that hasn’t happened to me … yet). If you don’t like it, there are other websites you can visit. - Esquire - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:37 am: I think that Governor Quinn complains, postures, and then signs the bill at three o’clock in the morning. The prospect of a court dictated process that could be potentially more open and less restrictive may force his hand. Privately, I know some CCW fans who were hoping that the court would take over for the GA on this. - Mongo - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:39 am: Good morning Support… Your thoughts are just dying for a reply. Nice of you to transform your opinion into “Let the facts be” facts. Do you think if you just keep saying “High cap mags don’t kill people” that it becomes a fact? But I am too tired of this to comment further. There is nothing wrong with having a gun. What’s wrong is where you take the gun, what the gun (some guns) can do (with a high cap mag)and yes, some people should not have access to a gun. Can we please talk about pensions or same sex marriage? - John - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:40 am: NRA contracy lobbyist Todd Vandermyde is the worst enemy of gun owners in this state. NRA wrote the language for Phelps HB148 carry bill which failed in 2011 including Duty to Inform (DTI) police w/criminal penalties, your choice of Class B misdemeanor (6 mo. jail) or Class A misdemeanor (1 yr. jail!) for all license violations and gun free zones, and the UNLIMIITED privacy waiver including ALL federal and state records so the government can pull your IRS tax returns when you apply for a license, and keep the info. indefinitely or share it with another agency to exercise a constitutional right. ISRA and NRA created a bad bill because it creates job security for their lobbyist to “fix” it for the next ten years. - Support the Second - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:41 am: Anyone remember - Agreed, this is his blog to decide what he allows to be seen and read. If you decided to support the Constitution and the First amendment, you should have the same atitude about the rest. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:42 am: ===Banning people from voicing their opinion opposite of yours is weak.=== Actually, I didn’t oppose the concealed carry bill and plan to apply for a permit. Don’t be an idiot. - 47th Ward - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:44 am: ===Todd Vandermyde is the worst enemy of gun owners in this state=== And Greg Harris stabbed the LGBT community in the back. Sheesh. What some people don’t know about the General Assembly could fill an encyclopedia. We don’t have CCW to argue over but we still have to deal with teh stupid apparently. - Quinn T. Sential - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:45 am: When is the first scheduled; Bring your Gun to Work Day; June 10th? - HenryVK - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:46 am: Anybody who thinks Todd did a bad job for his side has no clue at all what Todd was up against. He did a masterful job. He got a good bill that could pass and then knew when to get to the sidelines to avoid having it look like an NRA bill. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:46 am: ===What some people don’t know about the General Assembly could fill an encyclopedia.=== And what some know-it-alls actually know couldn’t fill a thimble. lol Just sayin. Man, I hope Quinn signs this bill so I get rid of the doofuses around here. - RonOglesby - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:46 am: @John — Todd Vandermyde is the worst enemy of gun owners in this state. — Uh… really? you think that language you site was his idea? It had nothing to do with requests/requirements from the Sheriffs association (DTI) or specific law makers for their votes? - FormerParatrooper - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:47 am: Support the Second… Rich runs this blog, his ability to ban people is his right. We have the right of free speech, but this is not a government owned forum. His banning and deletions here probably have saved a few from public humiliation. - FormerParatrooper - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:50 am: @Rich…. Thanks for the info you put out. I’ve learned a lot. - Tankr - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:51 am: Rich, now the House has passed Bill 183. How long will it take before it reaches Quinns desk? - Wensicia - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:52 am: I think gun owners came out ahead here. There’s no reason to continue the argument, lighten up. - walkinfool - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:54 am: ISRA cannot claim any sort of victory That would lessen their shared outrage and victimhood, which are their moneymakers. - Poll tax - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:58 am: So how do people attempt to justify hundreds of dollars in fees in order to be “allowed” to exercise a fundamental enumerated individual right? Whether you like guns or hate them, whether you despise carry or love it, everyone should stand firmly against this point - and this legislation. Are you prepared to accept hundreds of dollars in fees and requirements to speak? How about vote or remain silent? Ready to pay for your seizure and search protection permit? Yeah that’ll cost ya four hundred bucks. See the forest through the trees here people. This legislation is an affront and an assault upon individual rights themselves. It is exactly the kind of pay to play that enumeration was adopted to stop from happening. Shame on the ISRA, the NRA, Illinois Carry and gunssavelife for not having the courage to oppose this fiasco openly and honestly. That charge that they are in it for money is validated by their decision to go “neutral”. They demonstrated where real priorities rest - their own “job security”. And to those slamming rich regarding banishment - take a look in the mirror and at your own “leadership” with their ban hammers and demands that you not even openly discuss things all session long. Many of you gun owners stood down like the sheep you are because you were told to and threatened with banishment if you spoke up. And then you come here and complain rich does the same thing? Really? Can you say hypocrite? The supposed gun advocacy groups did more damage to their own supposed cause than any anti gun group could ever hope for. I call it just deserts. That’s what you get. Maybe now you will understand that you have to defend your own rights - you cannot do so by paying a lobby group and then just doing as you are told by your “bosses”. You got the shaft because that’s exactly what lobby groups wanted. Cuz now they think you still need them. I concede that the lobby groups have one chance at redemption. They should encourage EVERYONE to reject this legislation, refuse to “apply” and let loose an avalanche of lawsuits. If they do not, so be it, but they can expect less than half attendance to IGOLD next year. Some think its over (hence the ISRA plea) while others see the endless shushing and “back room” deals ending badly. This legislation is dangerous for ALL people and should be vetoed and never voted on again. Lisa should file appeal and SCOTUS should be forced to hear and decide. It’s time to take this entire issue away from corrupt politicians and corrupt lobby groups. It’s time the judiciary be forced to answer openly and honestly the serious questions. - Silicon Sorcerer - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:02 am: Hard to believe anyone would have an open blog but ban freedom of speech other then something specifically offensive or porno… - Dozer - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:02 am: “John’s” comment looks an awful lot like a certain person from somewhere near Park Ridge who has been running a campaign against Todd for sometime. He even got himself banned from Illinois Carry forums. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:04 am: ===other then something specifically offensive=== Everything I deleted WAS specifically offensive. Sheesh. - Support the Second - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:07 am: Could someone please post a link of a high cap mag that was found guilty of killing someone? Rich - You’ve said more than enough regarding the 2nd in the past. Also removed enough factual evidence posted by others. You aren’t fooling me. - defaultdotxbe - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:08 am: I don’t think Quinn will veto. If he was going to I figured he would have done it first thing this morning and called a special session of the assembly for them to pass something else before the June 9 deadline (the result would simply have been his veto being overridden however) I think he will wait until the last minute to sign it (June 7 or June 9) to give home rule units the most possible time to pass additional firearm restrictions before the 10 day countdown to lockout begins. - Sally Goldberg - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:14 am: How many of the Chicago gang bangers on the south and west sides actually had a Chicago Firearms Permit and Gun Registration? If someone wants to commit a crime with a gun, no gun law is going to stop them. In fact, the “gun free zones” are their desired targets. - wordslinger - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:19 am: – If someone wants to commit a crime with a gun, no gun law is going to stop them. In fact, the “gun free zones” are their desired targets.– Do the south and west sides strike you as a gun-free zone, Sally? No shootings in places with loose gun laws like New Orleans, Memphis, Little Rock… I wish I could see things as simply as you. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:21 am: ===You aren’t fooling me. === Well, I guess it’s high time that you take your paranoid, inaccurate, lying self to another blog. Bye. - Amalia - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:22 am: @Support the Second, most people killing other people are not mentally unstable. they are sociopaths, violent, and belong in prison. The problem is not a huge number of mentally ill. It is a huge number of violent, calculating killers and gang thugs who have ready access to guns. The flow to them has to stop. - John K - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:27 am: I’m a political novice (everything I know about the GA I’ve learned from CapFax), but labeling Todd as “an enemy of gun owners” seems remarkably short-sighted, as do the other comments carping about how the bill is dangerous. It’s been said before (and better, by Word), but bears repeating: half a loaf is better than no loaf at all. Take what you can now, come back later for the rest. I’m guessing that Gov. Quinn vetoes (or does an AV to include the magazine ban), and calls it “leadership.” - defaultdotxbe - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:28 am: ==No shootings in places with loose gun laws like New Orleans, Memphis, Little Rock…== Connecticut? They were pretty strict even before they tightened them up - Lawrence - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:33 am: The HB1189 bill requiring FOID validation before selling a gun, and lost/stolen reporting after *actually* knowing the firearm is missing (rather than “reasonably” should) show what compromising can get you. Those requirements are less than what the anti-gun side wanted, and more than the pro-gun side wanted. The zealots on both sides are upset. A magazine limitation could, and should, follow the same model. I personally do not understand the efficacy of any limitation, but the public would like one of some type. The fact is, our elected representatives did not support a ban calling any magazine holding over the arbitrary number 10 “high capacity.” If however there was compromise on both sides, something could be “accomplished.” I suggest not choosing some arbitrary number. Rather, restrict the sale of handgun magazines that extend beyond the grip. That would not ban standard capacity magazines that come with the handgun, which are the vast majority used. For rifles, it’s more complex but I’m sure something reasonable could be found to define truly “high capacity” versus standard capacity as most commonly used with the weapon. In this way, perhaps the vast middle would be satisfied, and the zealots on both sides could again be upset together. - Mike - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:35 am: Maybe the constant efforts to ban extended magazines fails because the People of Illinois don’t want it. Maybe, just maybe, the People understand that there is very little difference between a 30 round magazine on an AR-15 and a 21 round magazine on a Glock. - Shore - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:44 am: gun issues, statewide political campaigns and governors corruption trials seem to be your leading commenter threads that get 60+. - ProblemChild21 - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:52 am: =I’m concerned that the slippery slope before us leads directly to more Jared Lee Loughners.= I’m much more concerned about mental health systems that seem to either ignore or not have the finances/power to deal with those who have obviously dangerous mental health issues. Mass killers have such issues in abundance. Outside of education financing, if we need to find dollars for something, this would certainly be the place to focus. - Josh in Champaign - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:56 am: Never fear, Rich. There’ll always be the ongoing struggle to ban or restrict various classes of firearms and accessories! - Lawrence - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:58 am: The fact is, the arbitrary 10 round limit very nearly passed in the Senate. It would like have been DOA in the House most likely. However, if it were a more reasonable limitation, I would not be surprised if it did pass in the House as well. What the People support is best demonstrated by those they choose to elect, and re-elect. I don’t support any limit myself, as I fall much further to the liberty side regarding our rights and government infringement thereof, including the possession of personal property that is not clearly demonstrated to pose a true, substantial danger to others. - Brandon from EM - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 12:13 pm: There are an equal number of wackos on both sidea of tbis issue, just as there is on any issue. I support legal concealed carry because the criminals are already carrying, have been, and will continue to no matter what laws are passed. I appreciate Rich’s commentary on the issue, though I may not always agree. - Gunderstank - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 12:13 pm: == -John - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 10:40 am: NRA contracy lobbyist Todd Vandermyde is the worst enemy of gun owners in this state. == == - Support the Second - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 11:07 am: Rich - You’ve said more than enough regarding the 2nd in the past. Also removed enough factual evidence posted by others. You aren’t fooling me. == Rich, Did you start a “Making Up Stupid **** Contest,” and I just missed the announcement? And if you did, is it too late to get in on the action? I’m asking, because I’ve got some profoundly stupid things I’d just love say. - Ronbo - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 12:56 pm: “Lisa should file appeal and SCOTUS should be forced to hear and decide. It’s time to take this entire issue away from corrupt politicians and corrupt lobby groups. It’s time the judiciary be forced to answer openly and honestly the serious questions.” I don’t believe that I would trust that there are no corrupt judges either. Justice has often shown itself to have a certain agenda also… - Quinn T. Sential - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 1:27 pm: {I am a FOID card holder and a gun owner. I plan to apply for a concealed carry permit.} If the Governor has not accepted or rejected the legislation by June 9th, you can begin to carry at your leisure. Then if you get pinched we can look forward to Miller v. Madigan - John - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 1:41 pm: Ron Oglesby: Vandermyde cut a deal with the Chiefs of Police to include Duty to Inform as reported in FOX Chicago news article of March 30, 2011. Tim McCarthy, Chief of Police of Orland Park is quoted. McCarthy does press conferences with anti-gunners Jim and Sarah Brady. Why is the NRA contract lobbyist making deals with an openly hostile anti-gun organization? Since when should people who claim to be 2nd Amendment supporters go begging to police unions in order to exercise what Vandermyde described in House Judiciary committee testimony as a fundemental, constitutional right? Should we ask the Chiefs of Police whether they support right to bail or jury trials too? Let’s ask Chicago police commander Jon Burge whether he thinks it’s okay to torture suspectswith electric shock in order to get false confessions, then place men on death row who didn’t do the crime. But DTI will never be abused in Mayberry, so who cares about Cook County residents, right? ISRA and NRA have learned that Chicago residents make good plaintiffs for their lawsuits. - John - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 1:56 pm: Poll tax and walkinfool understand what’s going on with Vandermyde and the abomination that’s been passed called a concealed carry bill. A bad bill creates lawsuits for NRA lawyers and job security for their contract lobbyist. Anyone who thinks Vandermyde is their personal friend can contact Chris Cox or Chuck Cunningham at NRA/ILA and congratulate them for Todd’s great work here. 95% of NRA, ISRA, (Southern)Illinois Carry and GunsSaveLife members are small town people who just don’t have what it takes to match wits with a politician like Brandon Phelps or a professional lobbyist like Vandermyde. Vandermyde honed his trade at the Intl. Union of Operating Engineers local 150 in Countryside working for William Dugan before Dugan was busted by US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald in 2010. - Gunderstank - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 2:05 pm: == John - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 1:41 pm: Ron Oglesby: Vandermyde cut a deal with the Chiefs of Police to include Duty to Inform as reported in FOX Chicago news article of March 30, 2011. == 1) Something tells me that the bill may have changed some since Fox reported on it in 2011. 2) I would be most appreciative if you would indicate the page and line numbers of the bill that was passed where this appears, so that I can read the “Duty to Inform” language for myself. Here’s the URL for the final version of the bill (Amendments #6 and #7 were tehcnical clean-up pieces, Amendment #5 is body of the bill): http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/98/HB/09800HB0183sam005.htm I look forward to your tutelage with unbridled anticipation. - Chadd - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 2:20 pm: -=What the People support is best demonstrated by those they choose to elect, and re-elect.=- Too bad this isn’t true, the majority of people out there just vote straight ticket, and have not taken any time to find out what they person the re voting for actually stands for and represents. This is what is wrong with our Country, until voters quit being lazy and start voting for people who will properly represent them and do their best to support our Constitution and move our Country forward things will never change. Our State and Country can’t continue to operate in the red year after year. Have these people never had to balance a checking account? - Todd - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 2:37 pm: There is duty to inform in the bill, but it was altered to require the officerto ask, not require the licensee to automatically tell the officer. So if the officer asks, you have to inform him. - Lawrence - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 3:02 pm: As Mencken wrote, “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.” This is one of the problems with democracy, but as Churchill said (to paraphrase), it’s the best worst form of government. Personally I’d prefer if all votes required super majorities, as the concealed carry legislation did. That would better approximate, perhaps, the will of the people, rather than the interests of the minority who vote for the bare majority who can squeeze through controversial legislation. - Rod - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 3:19 pm: Overall Todd and the ISRA did as good of a job as they could on this bill. Just because there was a ruling doesn’t mean that the General Assembly had no ability to model the carry law in a way it wanted to. No federal court would require that. Compromise is the reality of the legislative process. I would bet that in the states with even the most unrestrictive carry laws there were numerous compromises made during the legislative process. For example even in Texas law there were compromises made in section PC §46.035 that restricted where a gun could be carried. Some in Texas opposed the Amusement park ban, and there were also compromises made in relation to the section of Texas law that made it a Class C misdemeanor for a kid below age of 17 to get access to a gun without supervision. - Silicon Sorcerer - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 3:40 pm: >ultra intense commenters who only post here on that topic. > Sheesh. > Everything I deleted WAS specifically offensive. Ultra intense is offensive? So if you passionate about a subject, that’s offensive? - wordslinger - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 3:51 pm: –I concede that the lobby groups have one chance at redemption. They should encourage EVERYONE to reject this legislation, refuse to “apply” and let loose an avalanche of lawsuits.– What would happen then? Have you read some court ruling that leads you to believe that the 2nd Amendment allows for no restrictions on carrying a gun in public? Which would those be? - Endangered Moderate Species - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 4:30 pm: Rich, As a gun owner and supporter of the 2nd amendment, I would like to thank you for the monitoring of this site and allowing the debate to move forward with a civil tone. Having the ability to disagree without being disagreeable is a worthy trait. - John - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 4:58 pm: “There is duty to inform in the bill, but it was altered to require the officer to ask, not require the licensee to automatically tell the officer.” (Oh thank you so much for that fine work in securing my right to remain silent unless a cop asks!) “So if the officer asks, you have to inform him.” How does the average citizen know who an “officer” is after they walk out their front door? “If an officer of a law enforcement agency initiates an investigative stop, including but not limited to a traffic stop, of a licensee who is carrying a concealed firearm, upon the request of the officer the licensee shall disclose to the officer that he or she is in possession of a concealed firearm under this Act, present the license upon the request of the officer, and identify the location of the concealed firearm.” Notice how the language does not require the officer to be in uniform, on duty or within his proper jurisdiction. CCW info. will be placed in the Sec. of State system, so most times they will know before they walk up to a vehicle stop if the driver has a license. A paroled felon walking down the street with a gun has the right to remain silent when confronted by police, but some of the flag waving patriots from Mayberry are actually eager to give up the constitutional rights they scream so loudly about in order to have that little piece of plastic in their pocket that proves they are “one of the good guys.” Ohio grassroots have been trying to repeal DTI for three years. If it’s a bad idea that is going to get citizens harassed, threatened, set up and arrested, why should Illinois’ NRA lobbyist put it in the bill if he represents gun owners? Why is it that Chicago democrat Reps. like Will Davis and LaShawn Ford debated “pro-gun” sponsor Brandon Phelps about placing DTI in the NRA backed HB997 in Feb., and Phelps is the one who insisted it stay in the bill? Could it be that the Mayberry types really don’t care that much about Otis McDonald and the Chicago people now that they have served their purpose as plaintiffs for NRA lawsuits? Serial killer John Gacy lured victims with a Sheriffs badge before he kidnaped, raped and killed them. Thanks Todd! Anyone can walk up to a CCW licensee on the street, flash a fake badge, ask if they are armed, then blow them away and jack their car. Off-duty police in Illinois are not required to inform on-duty police that they are armed, or that they are police officers. Police in IL on or off duty may be under the influence of drugs or alcohol and there is no state law that suspends their police powers, as Buckeye Firearms got passed in Ohio when police unions didn’t support the Ohio CCW bill. Yes, your NRA lobbyist is working hard for your rights. - Precinct Captain - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 5:09 pm: ==How does the average citizen know who an “officer” is after they walk out their front door?== There’s no other way to say this…how stupid are you? Seriously, how stupid are you? ==Notice how the language does not require the officer to be in uniform, on duty or within his proper jurisdiction.== There are other laws that govern these types of situations. That’s why we have a whole set of compiled statutes. You don’t need to say everything for every situation every time you pass a new law or do some tinkering. Individual bills that become law do not exist in a vacuum. http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs.asp - The Dude - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 5:28 pm: No matter our stance on guns, we should all support sensible paragraph usage. Especially you, John. - RonOglesby - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 5:44 pm: — No matter our stance on guns, we should all support sensible paragraph usage. Especially you, John. — HAHAHAH. I stopped reading his post about 2 sentences into it. He wants to vilify someone who’s job it is to get legislation done. whatever. An example of making perfect the enemy of good. - walkinfool - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 6:13 pm: @John: My comment was meant to be critical of ISRA’s continuous crying. I am a fan of this compromise, as difficult as it was, and believe both Brandon Phelps and Todd Vandermyde did outstanding jobs. - middle O the state - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 6:30 pm: Granted, this is not an ideal bill. But if not for the 7th’s ruling we would be no closer to ccw in this state than we were 2 yrs ago. At least this gives us something to work from. - Ken_in_Aurora - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 7:44 pm: John, you sound like you’d be better served living in a no-license state like AZ or WY. Quit peeing in our Wheaties, will ‘ya? Many of us have been waiting for this for years. - railrat - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 8:00 pm: @John remember words mean everythin and nothing(bills) ever dies in springfield - John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 8:00 pm: John has earned his place in the history of gun rights in Illinois, in spite of his extreme reaction to DTI. - Ken_in_Aurora - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 8:52 pm: Great - then he should save his rants for the gun club, not a generalist forum like this. Quite frankly it’s not helping the public perception of the average CCW supporter. - Ken_in_Aurora - Monday, Jun 3, 13 @ 8:54 pm: I’m curious how the court will react to the AG’s request for an additional 30 days for Quinn to fulfill his constitutional duties. (Why should he start now?) - John - Tuesday, Jun 4, 13 @ 1:06 am: Ron: Have you wondered why the new and improved Duty to Inform specifies that you must, “…identify the location of the concealed firearm”?? It’s so the police can seize it when they stop you. After they take your hogleg down to the local sheriffs office and deign to allow you to retrieve it the next day after a 40 mile drive one way, we’ll see how loud you are laughing then. Since thinking about and laws and how they may be applied in real life taxes your capacities, run back to your online Amish village and cry to big sister. Maybe she can “shun” everyone else in Illinois who dares to question or make you think too hard. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Jun 4, 13 @ 2:19 am: Whatever you’re smoking John, give me some! Let’s get this conspiracy theory straight: Illinois, under federal court order, passes a concealed carry bill with a duty to inform police officers you are carrying if you get pulled over (which requires probable cause) in order to seize your guns just you have to drive far to get it the next day! Oh my god the height of tyranny! Know how to avoid all that? Don’t act suspicious when you get pulled over by grabbing for things all over your car before the officer gets to your window. - John - Wednesday, Jun 5, 13 @ 10:34 pm: Ken in Aurora: Since you’ve been waiting so long for a cc bill, did you bother to read it before you shuffled down the street at IGOLD with all the other headless bodies? While you’re worrying about perceptions of gun owners, the NRA lobbyist sold you down the river. The NRA medicine wagon came to town and sold the rubes some of Doc Vandermyde’s elixir, good for what ails ya. The toxic ingredient of DTI is going to give you a headache when you run into Drew Peterson and your brains are all over the curb. Since carrying a weapon in public is a life or death issue, maybe you and all the old ladies down at the sewing club should debate the bill more and not worry so much about whose feelings get hurt. If you guys constitute the modern day minuteman, this country is in bad shape. - John - Wednesday, Jun 5, 13 @ 10:51 pm: Precinct Captain: No one asked you for your opinion on vehicle stops, but since you like to tell others what to do, why don’t you tell us what a woman driving alone at night should do when she is stopped by an unmarked car, and the “officer” in plain clothes asks to take control of her firearm for “officer safety” for the duration of the stop. She then ends up kidnaped, raped and murdered like Ted Bundy’s victims when he posed as a cop. So far you’ve insulted me by calling me stupid, implied I’m a drug user by asking what I’m smoking, and implied I’m nuts by saying that facts I’ve presented here about the dangers of Duty to Inform are a “conspiracy theory” whatever that means. Your insults and bullying probably work with most of the people you interact with when you’re on the job. Thanks for providing a perfect example for everyone here of the type of cop armed citizens are going to have to interact with when carrying in public. I could not have explained better myself what type of person becomes a cop. How many CRs’ and OPS investigations have you had so far? How stupid are you by the way? Care to post your ACT score? That’s right, you didn’t need one to get into Wright junior college. You’re probably tired from your midnight shift. Who taught you your dirty tricks, Jon Burge or one of his midnight crew from Grand & Central? - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 5, 13 @ 11:04 pm: –The NRA medicine wagon came to town and sold the rubes some of Doc Vandermyde’s elixir, good for what ails ya. The toxic ingredient of DTI is going to give you a headache when you run into Drew Peterson and your brains are all over the curb. – Todd, my sympathy. Gotta have your head on a swivel, lol. Although this dude doesn’t sound too funny. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.