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*** UPDATED x1 *** *** Live *** “Consequences” press conference
Wednesday, Jul 10, 2013 - Posted by Rich Miller *** UPDATE *** The governor’s veto message is here. You can compare those line numbers to the General Assembly’s operating appropriations, which is here, beginning on page 75. He got them good. * From the governor’s office…
The big event begins at 10:30. * From IOCI Media Services…
* Watch the ScribbleLive feed…
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- Soccertease - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 10:16 am:
Not going to listen. Now that concealed carry is the will of the people and the law of the land, why won’t Quinn accept it and go on? Instead he chooses to again embarrass himself and IL.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:03 am:
So if the courts rule the plan illegal will he suspend their pay as well?
- Chavez-respecting Obamist - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:10 am:
I didn’t know he could do that. He should have done it as soon as he took office.
- Keyrock - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:11 am:
If the courts rule the plan illegal? It doesn’t even have the pretense of a fig leaf of legality about it.
- Paul Lynde for the Block - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:11 am:
As ridiculous as this stunt is to we insiders, the public will eat this up.
- Yossarian Lives - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:13 am:
He did not line-item their per diems or mileage, though.
- Downstate Illinois - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:15 am:
Quinn may have outdone Blago when it comes to empty threats. It’s a totally unconstitutional breach of the separation of powers. I’m sure the next budget will zero out the governor’s office budget.
- Buster - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:15 am:
Gov. Pat supplies yet more evidence of his ineptitude.
- Meh - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:16 am:
The GA has the same grounds to zero out Quinn’s salary too. Only problem with that is the GA can restore their salary, Quinn can’t do the same.
- Nonny Mousse - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:17 am:
This pay suspension excludes general assembly staff, is that correct?
- anon - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:18 am:
I get that many commenters here dont like the governor. Most commenters here are also insiders, so our opinions dont really matter, and dont necessarily reflect the opinions of the voters. For those suggesting that the governor is getting pummeled by the general assembly, and that this AV is political grandstanding, I disagree. While he definitely lost the vote on the gun AV, he now has a great campaign tool to use in the AA community for months to come. Also, since its likely that the provisions he suggested will be resurrected next session, his loss today could become a victory for gun sensible gun control just before the election. With regards to the AA community, every time there is gun violence on the south or west side, he can do anything from showing up with a podium for a press conference with victims pummeling the general assembly for allowing this to happen, to more quietly going to console the victims. This will go a long way to make up for the hits he has taken in the community as a result of Medicaid reform. This is a brilliant move.
As for the AV on legislator salaries, I believe that voters will see this as a political move, but its a move that will take money away from unpopular legislators. How is that a bad thing? I want to see the legislators get up and say that they should continue getting paid while nothing gets done in Springfield. I think this is a brilliant move, one that supports Quinn’s image as a populist who fights for people.
You may see a rudderless governor floundering. I see a seasoned politician sharpening his knives in prep for a brutal campaign. If Daley or Lisa want what he has, it looks to me like the governor will make it hard as hell for them to take it.
- Keyrock - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:18 am:
It almost makes you long for George Ryan, or Otto Kerner, or some other convicted felon.
Actually, it makes me long for Adlai Stevenson II. The last honest, good Democratic governor of Illinois.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:20 am:
What a dumb stunt. I’m sure the Tribbie editorial board is cheering, but grownups will see it for what it is.
It’s been said before, but there really is no one that can protect Quinn from his worst instincts, is there.
- Ghost - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:22 am:
So then it goes back, the GA overrides it, and then passes an ammenedment to remove funding for the Governors Office….
:)
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:23 am:
=== Paul Lynde for the Block - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:11 am:
As ridiculous as this stunt is to we insiders, the public will eat this up ===
They already are - just check out the comments section on the Tribune under the relevant headline.
- kerfuffle - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:23 am:
This is all there is to the dreaded consequences? Pffttt!
- Stones - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:26 am:
PQ proves himself more and more irrelevant everyday. Everyone (including the average Joe) will see this to be the political stunt that it is.
- Dan S. - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:31 am:
In the long run won’t this childish stunt cost the State money in the long run?
- Eileen left - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:31 am:
Is it time for the impeachment hearings to begin?
- East Central Illinois - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:37 am:
Eileen left - @ 11:31 am:
“Is it time for the impeachment hearings to begin?”
Bingo!!! I second the motion!
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:39 am:
Since the Speaker seems to be on board with Quinn’s silly action, I doubt if impeachment proceedings are forthcoming, if I read my constitution right.
- Paul Lynde for the Block - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:42 am:
GA staffers get paid on Mon. Legislators don’t get paid until the end of the month.
- Norseman - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:45 am:
This post should be entitled, “Farce 2.0.”
- east central - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:48 am:
His veto will probably get substantial national press coverage. It is likely to be very popular with voters in Illinois. This will make for much discomfort among the legislators.
Sure they will resent his action. Are they going to like, respect or cooperate less than they already do?
To some extent by not cooperating more with him in the past, they have placed him in a position where there is little further downside to him for this type of action.
If they take it out on the executive budget, then he has control of functions such as management of capital projects that may grind to a halt without adequate executive funding.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:52 am:
–They already are - just check out the comments section on the Tribune under the relevant headline. –
Most newspaper commenters are a few bricks short of a load.
- LisleMike - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:55 am:
This all falls under the “I’ll do anything, say anything, be anything you voters want me to be, just please, please re-elect me!” heading.
He completely knows what he is doing, which is pandering. I have no respect for pandering from anyone in any party.
- Anon. - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:57 am:
Looks like they’ll have to live off their per diem.
The veto override will take 30 seconds in each house, plus however long members take to do their impressions/satires of the Governor’s presser.
Then on to the joint resolution to grant a “Quinncompetance Award” each session to the legislative initiative that fails most miserably.
- Norseman - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 11:59 am:
Short-sided on Madigan’s part. Does his members want him to lay them out like that.
Anyway, a member could/should file a lawsuit since this is clearly unconstitutional.
- Charlatan Heston - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:00 pm:
I need a little clarification. This is a line item veto correct? The GA can override correct?
- Norseman - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:01 pm:
Oops - short-sighted
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:03 pm:
===The GA can override correct? ===
Of course.
However, look at MJM’s comments. Ain’t gonna be an override for a while.
- 100 Miles West - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:05 pm:
Pandering works.
- JC - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:07 pm:
Isn’t there something in the state constitution about not altering legislators’ salaries? Lots of lawyers in this group….Quinn said “suspend”. Does that mean all will be repaid when/if a bill is presented to him? I hope not. They need to get a taste of what they’ll be doing to those in the pension programs.
- Yossarian Lives - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:07 pm:
No, this does not affect GA staff pay, nor does it affect district office allowances if I’m reading it right.
- Rod - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:09 pm:
I found it shocking that Speaker Madigan gave some support to Gov Quinn’s attempt to stop all payments to members of the General Assembly. I read the statement by the Speaker and noted that he completely avoids the issue of the independence of the legislature in relation to this issue.
It is all fine and good to argue as the Speaker does that he has been frustrated by members of the Assembly in trying to create a cost containment bill for public pensions, but it is another thing altogether to support the Governor’s attempt to usurp to power granted to the Assembly by our Constitution in Article 4. The Assembly may act or not act on legislation at its own determination, not on the determination of the Governor.
It should also be noted that section 11 of Article 4 constitutionally requires that the members receive both their salaries and allowances. It contains no provision allowing the Governor of the State to set aside these payments for any reason.
- Gunderstank - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:09 pm:
I’m not certain that the GA needs to do a thing - Quinn may have missed the mark. Here’s why I say that:
1) In vetoing the base salaries on p. 75, Quinn vetoed the specific sum for House salaries (line 7) and the specific sum for Senate salaries (line 10), but he left untouched the total sum appropriated for base salaries (line 11); and
2) In vetoing the additional amounts for leadership, chairs, etc., again Quinn vetoed each of the specific line items (p. 75, lines 17, 18, 20, 22, and 24, and p. 76, lines 1, 3, 7, 10), but he left untouched the total amount appropriated for the additional amounts (p. 76, line 11).
I think all that really happened is that Quinn just gave the House and Senate two lump sum appropriations, one for base salaries and one for the additional amounts.
Giving the GA members lump sum appropriations for salaries, that’ll teach them!
- Century Club - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:11 pm:
Sure, it’s toxic in the statehouse, but what does Quinn care? It doesn’t look like he’s ever been interested in relationships there. He’s trying to reposition himself from ineffective governor to valiant populist stymied by the status quo.
Maybe someone will be nice enough to do some polling soon and we can see if it’s working.
- Century Club - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:14 pm:
Also, I won’t pretend to know the mechanics of the what Quinn is doing, but I’m guessing if their salaries were really in danger that a State Rep could get an injunction on this while a court works out its constitutionality.
- PublicServant - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:19 pm:
Typical Rauner response in playing the “Powerful Union Bosses” bogeyman, seeing as how if they were truly powerful, then we wouldn’t be talking about cutting pensions in the first place. But go ahead Bruce, play up that line with the middle class under attack all over the country.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:21 pm:
If you’re going to use Banana Republic tactics, why stop at half measures?
Since we all know pensions are a “crisis” that can only be resolved through “police powers,” call up the guard, surround the Dome and lock the GA in their chambers until they vote the way Quinn wants.
Of course, the only tricky part of that scenario is that Quinn would have to decide what he wants and stick to it long enough for a vote to be taken.
- soccermom - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:26 pm:
Is this legit?
“I’m not certain that the GA needs to do a thing - Quinn may have missed the mark. Here’s why I say that:
1) In vetoing the base salaries on p. 75, Quinn vetoed the specific sum for House salaries (line 7) and the specific sum for Senate salaries (line 10), but he left untouched the total sum appropriated for base salaries (line 11); and
2) In vetoing the additional amounts for leadership, chairs, etc., again Quinn vetoed each of the specific line items (p. 75, lines 17, 18, 20, 22, and 24, and p. 76, lines 1, 3, 7, 10), but he left untouched the total amount appropriated for the additional amounts (p. 76, line 11).
I think all that really happened is that Quinn just gave the House and Senate two lump sum appropriations, one for base salaries and one for the additional amounts.
Giving the GA members lump sum appropriations for salaries, that’ll teach them!”
- AFSCME Steward - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:30 pm:
Eileen
What is the basis for impeachment ? Has PQ committed a crime ? He acting within his constitutional duty and is vetoing a portion of the budget. There is a legitimate issue raised as to whether the executive branch can stop the legislators from being paid. But a veto is not a crime. Disagreeing with an action taken by an official is not grounds to remove them from office. I am not a supporter of PQ, but ineptitude and ieffective leadership are not constitutional reasons for impeachment.
“Is it time for the impeachment hearings to begin?”
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:31 pm:
Gunderstank, I’m checking into that. Very interesting.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:46 pm:
Gunderstank, I’ve been checking around and I don’t think you’re right. Comptroller’s office is checking into it, but their initial react was it was done properly.
From the Senate GOPs: Total doesn’t matter. Approps are made from the line item (don’t even need totals they tell me.) The line item vetoes were done appropriately to veto base salaries and stipends.
- Billmaster - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:47 pm:
Gunderstank, unfortunately for the General Assembly, that’s not how it works. The totals are only there for clarification purposes. The intent is obviously to appropriate the GA members at 0. The total amounts are practically irrelevant.
- iThink - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:48 pm:
It seems to me that a substantial portion of today’s headline grabbers lack a fundamental understanding of the state constitution, both in terms of the powers of separation, but the protection clause.
We get it. Governing would be easier in a monarchy - what you say goes. We have a bunch of would be kings who want their way or the highway that are failing to remember they are there to represent the People and are under the rule of law with the rest of us.
- Gunderstank - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:52 pm:
Oh well, it would have been a great punchline…
Thanks for the research.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 1:47 pm:
” … blah-ditty-blah blah Rewrite to Do Right blah-ditty-blah blah . . .”
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 2:00 pm:
=== Most newspaper commenters are a few bricks short of a load ===
Agreed. Nonetheless, I doubt many would view this issue in the same light as folks as learned as you are view it. The common comment seems to be that it was about time.
- Soccermom - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 4:03 pm:
Not to get all serious here, but I don’t think it’s fair to hold up the salaries of those legislators who have actually worked hard on this issue throughout the session.
- OurMagician - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 4:08 pm:
AG @LisaforIL Madigan office is reviewing constitutional, procedural issues raised by @GovernorQuinn move to cancel legislators’ paychecks.
So the Attorney General’s office will review this on the same day but keeps asking for delays on concealed carry appeals and won’t give an opinion on what pension changes is constitutional….
- RNUG - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 4:20 pm:
OurMagician @ 4:08 pm:
That’s because none of the pension changes to existing employees and retirees are constitutional without invoking ‘police powers’ and AG’s office knows that won’t make it through the court system, given all the possible legal alternatives. If the AG’s office admitted no changes were legal, then that would be who gets the blame for the eventual tax increases needed to actually pay all the State’s bills, including the pensions.
It’s not about fixing the problem, it’s about who gets the credit for solving it and who gets the blame for the taxes to solve it.
- mythoughtis - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 6:12 pm:
So glad the Governor has time to play silly games. Will he send them to bed without supper next? Ground them?
The governor is working ‘night and day’ to fix the pension crisis, but couldn’t be bothered to show up for these last go round of hearings…. the ones he expressly wanted.
Meaningless rude gestures won’t help. And, I find the fact that he made such an important announcement about the budget in CHICAGO rather than on the steps of the state capital another meaningless, but rude, gesture.
How about we start doing things that are constitutional, fair, and above board?
Governor, even though the legislature is an elected position, they still deserve to be paid their wages in return for work. Not work that meets your wishes, just work. They are not indentured servents. I think they should just refuse to show up.
- downstate commissioner - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 10:30 pm:
Kind of late, but mythought is right-”no pay, no work” is actually just as acceptable as “no work, no pay”…
- public employee - Thursday, Jul 11, 13 @ 1:12 am:
These games are PQ , like he did us just stop paying raises and so forth. How much of the taxpayers money has and will be wasted on the court battles involving pay struggles? He done it to AFSCME why not wast some more with legislators to?