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The juvenile banana republicans strike again
Wednesday, Aug 7, 2013 - Posted by Rich Miller * Another day, another ill-informed, adolescent temper tantrum over pension reform from the Chicago Tribune editorial board…
Only the We Are One negotiated pension plan could receive three-fifths votes in both chambers to give any pension reform bill an immediate effective date. Otherwise, we’re looking at July 1, 2014 for an effective date on a simple majority roll call But to hear the Tribune tell it, we’ll drown if something isn’t done right this very second!!! These people write like they’re tweenie girls whose parents won’t buy them One Direction concert tickets. Take. A. Breath. * Also, if they’d bothered to actually check, they’d know that the conference committee is actually making lots of progress. What’s the holdup? Well, every tweak they make has to be sent off for actuarial analysis, and that takes time. Again. Take. A. Breath. * And I seriously doubt that Sen. Raoul cares whether the Tribune thinks he’s gubernatorial material. Threatening the guy ain’t gonna work. * Also, too, the Tribune has proved over and over again that it has zero concerns for the state Constitution. Perhaps their editorial board members have moved to another state. I dunno. But pension reform is made extremely difficult because of our Constitution. And the obvious separation of powers questions raised by the governor’s veto seem not to bother the Trib, either. They just want those concert tickets, man, and they don’t care how it’s done. Missing Squeezy? C’mon. Grow up, already. [And for my more partisan commenters, please note that the word “republicans” in the headline is not capitalized.]
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- Anonymour - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:35 am:
Still waiting for the Trib’s article on Ty Fahner. Maybe they should investigate whether Squeezy ate it.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:36 am:
I’m pretty sure if Raoul does what the Tribune wants, he’ll end his chances of being elected Governor. As a Democrat anyway.
- Obama's Puppy - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:36 am:
Could not have put it any better Rich. Maybe the Trib can move to Wisconsin where they think it is all roses and unicorns because public employee unions are throttled and the privatizing of public education has begun.
- Liberty First - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:39 am:
Do republicans even read the trib editorial stupidity anymore?
- humm - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:44 am:
==These people write like they’re tweenie girls whose parents won’t buy them One Direction concert tickets.===
Best. Commentary. Ever. Ever.
- Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:48 am:
I may not be a fan of “temper tantrum(s)”.
But I am even less a fan of the fact this issue has been public knowledge while dragging on for years, much less the past 7 months under one-party control.
Talk about a banana republic.
Does the conference committee deserve more time? Yes. They are making some of the best progress on this issue in recent memory.
That said, I remain angrier at our so-called “leaders” who have both created this problem and failed to resolve it, than I am at any newspaper for any goofy editiorial.
- too obvious - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:49 am:
Fine, they can take as much time as they want. We just won’t pay the do-nothings. (thank you again Gov. Quinn)
- A guy... - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:51 am:
Every day that goes by without someone on that conference committee carping out of school or leaking and testing the toxic waters is a good day. I hope and pray they’re really making progress. If they are they are Statesmen and Stateswomen. If they’re not, it will be really disappointing.
- CircularFiringSquad - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:52 am:
“These people write like they’re tweenie girls whose parents won’t buy them One Direction concert tickets.”
Capt Fax we know tweenies panting or One Direction tickets please do not demean them by comparing their ernest desires to the blather from the bankrupt and unbought Tribbies.
BTW …Mr/Ms Anonymour 10:35 We are still waiting for the Tribbies to tell us why they never ran down to the USA after Blagoof and his stooges offered to trade a $100 million state grant for Wrigley for the edit board.
It is called reporting a crime.
- John A Logan - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:57 am:
The Tribune editorial board is in the business of selling newspapers. Their perspective might not ring true with those that stand around rail in the capitol building, but it does ring true with the public that does not spend every waking hour examining the minutia of conference committee confabulating. When a problem has persisted for as long as this one has, I understand the lack of patience from the Tribune Editorial board.
- AFSCME Steward - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:57 am:
I guess the legistators are psychics and foretold that Quinn was going to veto their salaries. That is why no deal was reached before the last session closed. Geez.
“But they haven’t done so. Some members of the committee appear to be in no hurry, especially now that Quinn has taken away their paychecks. They’ll show him! They’ll … just … keep … stalling.”
- Mouthy - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 10:58 am:
Has there been any news or ruling on the state insurance court case? Thanks, I’ve been on vacation.
- Dream a little dream - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:05 am:
Seems to me the problem is so big that the solution ought to pass unanimously.
- Burning Down da House - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:05 am:
The Trib’s not the only party throwing a juvenile temper tantrum. Look in the mirror.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:06 am:
===but it does ring true with the public===
Actually, I polled this very topic for subscribers. Maybe I should make it public. Put it this way, the public ain’t with the Tribune.
- Dick Balderson from Geneva. - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:12 am:
Rich is way too bullish on the cc’s supposed “progress.” Spitballing ideas and waiting for actuarial results is what Quinn’s 2012 working group did, it’s what the ‘09 Pension Task Force did, it’s what all the Blago-era pension working groups did. The university presidents plan couldn’t get 20 votes in the Senate, and I seriously doubt that Raoul would even vote for it on the floor. Nothing has happened to change the dynamic between MJM and JJC, and thinking that the arrival of a couple actuarial studies will do the trick is way premature.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:13 am:
===Spitballing ideas===
That’s definitely not what is happening, according to everybody I’ve talked to. They have a template and a goal and they’re plugging things in to see if they work.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:16 am:
==Spitballing ideas and waiting for actuarial results ==
I find that to be a good thing. How exactly do you think legislation gets developed? And waiting for actuarial numbers is the responsible thing to do.
- Illannoyed - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:17 am:
One fascinating aspect throughout this now-years-long process is the Tribune’s and Fahner et al.’s willful failure to adjust for inflation when discussing both annual pension payouts and the total putative indebtedness of the State system. In the first instance, such a move cleverly indicts pensioners’ “annually compounded” COLA’s, which are of course designed to adjust for inflation that is itself compounded. In the second instance, it creates the fearsome illusion of a perpetually rising (”up, up, up”!) debt which, in constant, inflation-adjusted dollars, happens to be sitting exactly still at the moment ($100 billion adjusted for 1.8% inflation = exactly an “increase” of 5 million dollars a day). It’s offensive enough for the leading news source and civic leadership of a region of 9 million people to constantly elide a fundamental Econ 101 precept, but when that region is one of the financial nerve centers of the planet Earth, it jumps well past offensiveness into the realm of intellectually disingenuous ethical misconduct.
- Dick Balderson from Geneva. - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:22 am:
Demoralized, SB 1946 (tier 2) had no actuarial study attached to it, and it passed in one day. You’re kidding yourself if u think the actuarial numbers will determine the roll call. Nevertheless, the central question is this - can the CC break the impasse? I predict it will not.
- iThink - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:25 am:
In recent years I am confident that fewer and fewer people are reading or care what the Tribbies say; especially on pensions - this issue has been around so long that most people already have their opinion cemented.
The more the Trib prints and pontificates, the more the more they show just how irrelevant they are.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:25 am:
===SB 1946 (tier 2) had no actuarial study attached to it, and it passed in one day.===
Yeah, and look at the myriad structural problems with that law.
- Dick Balderson from Geneva. - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:31 am:
No structural problems that would warrant full repeal. The big items - the ret age, the COLA, the pensionable salary period - all saved big money. Those who say “tier 2 must be fixed” want total repeal.
- Willie Stark - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:45 am:
A little pension good news, courtesy of Bloomberg, from yesterday:
Public Pensions Up 12% Get Most in 2 Years as Stocks Soar
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-06/public-pensions-up-12-get-most-in-2-years-as-stocks-soar.html
- Bluefish - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:50 am:
Even if the “tweenie girls” at the Trib got their One Direction concert tickets they’d probably complain they’re not close enough to the stage to see Harry Styles’ eyes (please don’t mock me for knowing their lead singer’s name - I have a tweenie girl at home).
- whetstone - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:54 am:
Ugh:
“Editorial: Lawmakers will miss another paycheck? Awww.”
Does this kind of lazy snideness actually work?
- Ghost - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 12:11 pm:
just out of curiosity, where does the 5 million a day come from? There are not that many State workers retiring every day increasing the payouts.
Every paycheck current employees kick in to the retirement plan, and the State makes an annual payment of 2-3billion.
Do they mean the lack of piling up a balance so that the plan earns interest sufficient to make all payments without additional contribution is behind by 5 million a day?
- Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 12:12 pm:
Trib edit board once said State Sen. Obama had no future because he missed a gun vote.
- siriusly - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 12:46 pm:
Rich - I know they bug you, but stop giving them so much coverage. Nobody pays attention to what they say anyway. Voters clearly don’t.
I never read the editorial page unless you prompt us to . . .
- muon - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 12:55 pm:
Ghost - The $100 billion is the unfunded portion of the actuarial liability. It is the difference between the total liability and the existing assets. So the growth of the unfunded liability roughly represents the difference between the growth of a fully funded system needed to support current and future retirees less the growth of the assets on hand.
- Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 1:31 pm:
I find it curious that they don’t ask where the Governor’s people are in this process. Why is OK for the Governor to wait for a bill? Should he or some of his people be in the room negotiating? What if the product is something he doesn’t like? Should the Gov. have introduced a plan? Should the Gov. be collecting a paycheck while the state waits for this incredibly important piece of legislation?
I guess what bugs me the most is what the Trib leaves out.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 1:37 pm:
I still find it hard to believe that Ivory Tower thinkers can endorse an executive extorting a legislature on public policy, thinking that it will expedite the process.
- Norseman - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 1:50 pm:
Facts, facts; we don’t need no stink’n facts!
Signed Trib Editorial Board
- Harry - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 2:41 pm:
This editorial was Ty fahner’s tryout for his new, post-Civic Committee job.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 2:41 pm:
The Tribune had an article recently about 1920s gangs and the typical reporting that occured during that time, especially around funerals. They printed a few examples of the over the top rhetorical flourishes that abounded in their own coverage from the time. They compared that to the more staid serious reporting language that is used today without a hint of irony at all.
- RNUG - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 2:46 pm:
Mouthy @ 10:58 am:
That isn’t even scheduled until sometime in the fall; it will probably be several months before a ruling gets issued.
- Joe M - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 3:15 pm:
On another day, someone on this forum asked if the pension debt is $100 billion, then why do we need to save $187 billion? Anyone know?
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 3:34 pm:
There are ideas to help Illinois’ overall that the Trib should support, such as a progressive income tax, service taxes, financial transaction tax, closing some corporate tax loopholes. After all, Fahner did say “everybody’s hands on deck,” unless of course, he misspoke.
That should speed up the process.
- Fan of the Game - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 4:02 pm:
At this point, speed is not of the essence.
But then again, the pension issue should never have gotten to this point.
- David - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 4:09 pm:
In this isolated instance, I agree with Quinn (suspending pay), and the Tribune (for wanting to speed up the process). I think everyone has to agree, this is a long, drawn out process that will never be resolved without some additional pressure put on law makers. For the first time in history, the democrats are being forced to alieanate their Union supporters.
- David - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 4:13 pm:
Does anyone really think the solution to Illinois problems is for them to increase revenues through raising taxes - again? I think they need to align expenses with revenues - vs. the other way around.
- PublicServant - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 4:19 pm:
I think it’s the height of hypocrisy that all you strict constitutionalist republicans eschew that document’s sanctity when it might affect your wallet.
- Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 4:38 pm:
Joe M. , the $100b is the unfunded pension liability. The $187b is the estimated reduction in future State pension contributions to the systems over the long-term under one proposal.
Does that help?
- walkinfool - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 5:00 pm:
The Trib:
Sen. Raoul must be stalling because he’s considering running for Gov,
Sen. Brady, who is actually running, is just fine.
OK
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 5:09 pm:
“Does anyone really think the solution to Illinois problems is for them to increase revenues through raising taxes–again?”
Sure, why not? It’s working in California and nationally, with the federal income tax increase. The federal deficit is shrinking, and we’ve had surplus months. Minnesota’s unemployment rate is lower than the national average, and it did a tax increase. The Minnesota increase could bring in $2.1 billion to help pay for programs the voters support.
- Andrew Szakmary - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 5:15 pm:
I do not know the specifics of the proposal the CC is considering, but today’s news reports are that Bill Brady suggests it will save $150 Billion, vs. $187 Billion for the failed Madigan bill. Presuming those savings will all come from reduced payments to Tier I employees and retirees, one can surmise the current proposal must still be extremely draconian!
- David - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 5:23 pm:
““Does anyone really think the solution to Illinois problems is for them to increase revenues through raising taxes–again?”
Sure, why not? It’s working in California and nationally, with the federal income tax increase. The federal deficit is shrinking, and we’ve had surplus months. Minnesota’s unemployment rate is lower than the national average, and it did a tax increase. The Minnesota increase could bring in $2.1 billion to help pay for programs the voters support. ”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2012/11/25/do-you-live-in-a-death-spiral-state/ - Illinois ranks 3rd highest for states in a death spiral. I guess I don’t have the same faith in Illinois politicians that you do. I’m afraid as revenues increase, the number of people on the public dole will increase, forcing more increases in taxes.
- Ruby - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 5:46 pm:
Sen. Raoul’s handling of the conference committee is building confidence in his ability to act in an intelligent and honest manner to solve the pension funding problem and not be rattled by the governor’s unconstitutional threats and the Trib’s temper tantrums.
There has been more accomplished on Illinois pension funding reform in the past three years than at any other time: SB 1946 (tier 2)in 2011 and SB 1313 (health care) in 2012; SB 2404 passed by our state senators and SB 1 passed by our state representatives in 2013.
There are other signs of hope for Illinois’ economy. The stock market has been hitting new highs and pension funds have realized an average 11% increase in the past three years. This is a welcome change of fortune after the dismal returns on pension investments during the recent recession caused by the Wall Street bankers.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 5:57 pm:
–http://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2012/11/25/do-you-live-in-a-death-spiral-state/ - Illinois ranks 3rd highest for states in a death spiral. I guess I don’t have the same faith in Illinois politicians that you do. I’m afraid as revenues increase, the number of people on the public dole will increase, forcing more increases in taxes.–
LMAO, yes, I base all my life decisions on right-wing journalists with a degree in linguistics who write on investment strategies.
So you know what you have to do — forget about hell-holes like Illinois, California, Ohio and New York — the good life awaits in North Dakota!
Bundle up.
- Wally - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 6:47 pm:
I don’t think Kwame is governor material. I think he is an overrated partisan.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:13 pm:
Whoa, Ruby, try not to inject history, facts and perspective into the discussion. Makes the Tribbies cranky.
- Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 11:26 pm:
==The Tribune editorial board is in the business of selling newspapers. Their perspective might not ring true with those that stand around rail in the capitol building, but it does ring true with the public that does not spend every waking hour examining the minutia of conference committee confabulating. When a problem has persisted for as long as this one has, I understand the lack of patience from the Tribune Editorial board.==
The editorial board does not sell newspapers and if they did, based on the state of the Chicago Tribune, a throw the bums out strategy would be in order.
- David - Thursday, Aug 8, 13 @ 6:54 am:
@wordslinger - so you are saying Illinois is not in a death spiral, and our finances are sustainable - no changes required?
I find is sometimes beneficial to listen to opposing arguments, rather than dismiss them based on the author. I’m supposing to dismiss the work of Joshua Rauh too?
- PublicServant - Thursday, Aug 8, 13 @ 8:00 am:
David, the unfunded liability of all Illinois pension systems is 0.37% of future state income. Is that a death spiral? Try reading Dean Baker’s Paper before you drink the koolaid.
http://www.cepr.net/publications/reports/the-origins-and-severity-of-the-public-pension-crisis
- wordslinger - Thursday, Aug 8, 13 @ 8:08 am:
David, regardless of background, I find that professional alarmists who use phrases like “death spiral” have a political agenda.
The author of your “death spiral” article certainly fits the bill. As does Rauh.
I’ve seen this movie before, with Social Security, the Reagan Deficits. Throw out the Big Numbers and point to the fact that they are big as justification for some agenda.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Aug 8, 13 @ 8:28 am:
–http://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2012/11/25/do-you-live-in-a-death-spiral-state/ - Illinois ranks 3rd highest for states in a death spiral.
You’re still doing the takers vs. makers thing, after you lost the 2012 election? Can I use your post as an example of GOP rebranding? Thanks in advance.
Many of the “makers” help create the “takers.” If wealthy corporations paid their employees better and offered them health insurance, we’d have fewer takers.
Too many people see the “takers” as budget line items and not human beings, which partially explains why corporate profits have soared while wages have struggled.
- David - Thursday, Aug 8, 13 @ 8:30 am:
@Wordslinger - we all have political agendas. Mine - I’m a high income tax payer who is fed up with the “Rich have to pay their fair share” tax BS, and I don’t think it’s fair that public workers get these great benefits/pensions that the taxpayers get stuck paying for.
What is your political agenda? The strongest advocates I’ve seen for “progresive tax” increases and keeping pensions the way they are (or minimal reforms) are the people in line to get those pensions.
- wordslinger - Thursday, Aug 8, 13 @ 8:45 am:
–Mine - I’m a high income tax payer who is fed up with the “Rich have to pay their fair share” tax BS, and I don’t think it’s fair that public workers get these great benefits/pensions that the taxpayers get stuck paying for.–
You pay a higher income tax rate in Illinois than others do? What would that be?
As far as what’s “fair,” contracts and the Constitution cannot be ignored.
I’m not advocating for an income tax increase for the pension “crisis.” I think the “crisis” is largely hot air. Some reforms already have been made. The key to the future is to keep making full annual contributions and have some historic growth.
By the definition used today regarding unfunded liability, there’s been a pension “crisis” for at least 60 years.