81 Comments - Chicago Cynic - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:05 pm: Coward’s way out. I don’t have the guts to make the hard calls on taxes and spending so let’s have a referendum and have the people decide. - Concerned Voter - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:05 pm: What’s good for the goose (Dem) is good for the gander (Rep) - Norseman - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:07 pm: Seriously, give me the money that it would cost to put this referendum on the ballot and I’ll tell you the results. MOST PEOPLE DON’T WANT TO PAY MORE TAXES! Duh! - Amuzing Myself - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:07 pm: Why not. - Southwest Cook - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:09 pm: It’s just a non-binding vote, so why are the Democrats afraid of democracy? - Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:10 pm: 1) Gov. Pat Quinn loves referenda. 2) Gov. Quinn always talks about making “the will of the people the law of the land.” Therefore: Gov. Quinn should support this idea. lol - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:10 pm: I voted no. Let’s not be kids. Let’s grow up and face our fiscal difficulties. Let’s stop playing games with our finances. We have bills to pay and services to provide. I read this morning that the budget shortfall for the next fiscal year, starting in July, could be $4 billion. I think the best avenue may be some type of compromise, such as extending the hike for a short time or phasing it out over time. If politicians won’t vote for it, so be it. They will have to deal with whatever consequences or lack thereof that follow. - CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:11 pm: Pretty close Rebuff better get GOPies like CarWashTim jump on some computers and stuff the ballot boxes even though they are no on the tax and no on the budget - Diogenes in DuPage - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:13 pm: We are a representational democracy. If representatives don’t want to represent, let’s elect new ones. - fed up - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:13 pm: This a really stupid way to govern. Its what Illinois deserves - Anon - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:15 pm: It’s fine if the wording is balanced and asks voters whether they favor extending the tax to fully fund basic state services, or if they favor ending the tax and imposing draconian cuts to basic state services. I bet Reboletti won’t go for that formulation. - South of Sherman - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:15 pm: The answer is “no” for one very obvious reason: we need an answer now, before the new fiscal year starts. We have to know whether or not that tax will be there before a responsible budget can be crafted. Shame on the Democrats for passing a budget that assumes revenues that haven’t been enacted. But shame in equal amounts on the Republicans who are shirking their responsibility to address this issue before the next fiscal year starts, either by voting on the tax extension or telling us what they’d cut without it. - Linus - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:16 pm: Ditto what Diogenes and Grandson said, above. Plus, the fiscal year starts in July. While it might not ultimately happen this way, it’d be good to determine FY15 revenues before FY15 actually begins. - Reality Check - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:16 pm: Ridiculous. If he really believed this, Rebolletti should have voted for the fair tax referendum. - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:17 pm: I voted no and here’s why. When the voters (or Republicans for that matter) offer some solutions to the problems of the state budget that don’t involve additional revenue, then you can have an opinion on it. Until then all we have is Illinois citizens wanting (slightly) more money in their paychecks, without understanding the economic hit the state will take if programs are not funded. Then, lots of our citizens will be out a lot more money. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:18 pm: === Illinois citizens wanting (slightly) more money in their paychecks=== Um, the tax hike was two percentage points. That’s about a weeks’ pay. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:18 pm: Good idea. If we are being asked for our input on the minimum wage, why not the income tax increase? Both issues directly involve our paychecks and more. - horse w/ no name - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:19 pm: We know people don’t like tax increases. We don’t need a vote to confirm what is already abundantly clear. A non-binding referendum does nothing to further the argument one way or the other. This is a kabuki play designed to distract from the hard realities of the current economy. Reboletti and the GOP just want to keep screaming NO until election day. That is not a solution it’s a talking point. - Adam Smith - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:19 pm: Norseman, it won’t cost a dime to put a non-binding referendum on the ballot. The counties will be printing ballots and holding an election in November already. This is no dodge for the legislature and governor not undertaking their legal duties. They still are the only ones with the legal power to enact a budget or set tax rates. That being said, Speaker Madigan will put every piece of progressive claptrap on the ballot to shamelessly pander for votes in a year when the Dem’s horrible record could actually finally hurt them…And this is somehow improper? Illinois Democrats…Power? Yes. Accountability?Not so much. - Larry the Cable Guy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:20 pm: Only after the GOP members get a chance to vote on the Non-Recommended budget. Give ‘em a chance to whoop and holler about the cuts. Now that there would be funny. - Demoralized - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:21 pm: I voted no. We don’t govern by referendum. We elect people to make decisions. They need to make those decisions instead of engaging in political theater. - UIC guy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:26 pm: I voted No. Give the people of this state a chance to vote for lower taxes and they’ll vote Yes. Give the a chance to vote for more services and they’ll vote Yes. Give them a chance to vote for more borrowing and they’ll vote No. It doesn’t add up. It’s not clear that the legislature will be grown-up and willing to face the consequences of their actions (e.g. on pensions), but I think the odds are slightly better than if the voters as a whole are given the choice. - Sunshine - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:27 pm: It was sold as temporary. Let it expire and keep it off any ballot. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:29 pm: I am going to vote “No” because Dennis Riboletti can introduce this next January as a newly minted state Senator, and, when he is in the Senate, he can… Oh. Never mind. Still voting “No”, I guess I need another good reason, so I will say at some point, being a member of a General Assembly is hard. Tough votes make it hard. Being in the GA is not suppose to be all sunshine and lollipops. - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:30 pm: @ Rich Say someone makes $75,000 / year. 2% of $75,000 is $1,500. If that individual gets paid every 2 weeks (26 paychecks) it’s $57.69 per paycheck. It’s more, no doubt. But, what are the economic ramifications if the the increase goes away? Will some people loose their jobs? See here’s the problem, people who want the tax to sunset don’t understand that government is an economic driver. The agencies that the state funds, they hire staff, buy products, engage in commerce. If that commerce is impeded, there will be a major impact. The state engages in commerce as well. What happens when that is starts to be less? Is that worth $28.85 per week? You have to answer that question for yourself. But I say no. - back up the gas truck - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:31 pm: Note to Durkin. Reboletti can no longer vote for you. Try to get press for a member who needs it. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:33 pm: Try-4-Truth. a week’s pay, any way you look at it, is still a week’s pay. - Walter Mitty - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:36 pm: Yes… The overt political move for voter turnout for the Dems is okay? But a question that effects almost the entire state is bad? I am lost on the logic against it. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:37 pm: - Try-4-Truth -, Send me your email, I have one of those “A train leaving from Chicago…” word problems, and boy is it a head scratcher. “Go around the barn” clockwise, counter clockwise, on a bicycle, whatever, you still end up at the front of the barn… - independent - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:40 pm: If you ask should tax be kept permanent they will probably say no. If you ask should schools, human service and public safety be cut further, they will also say no. What did you accomplish? - Joe M - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:41 pm: I voted no. Deciding issues by popular vote can be a very slippery slope. Besides, dealing with these issues is what the members of the General Assembly were elected to do. - Demoralized - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:43 pm: ==I am lost on the logic against it== I don’t like referendums in general. We elect people to make decisions. They should do so. If they won’t then why don’t we just do referenda on everything that needs to be decided and get rid of the politicians? - Filmmaker Professor - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:44 pm: Yes, as long as there is a second question which asks, “what will you cut because of the lost revenue?” come to think of it, it would be interesting if Rauner would answer that question. - cover - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:45 pm: So why not a non-binding referendum regarding a graduated income tax? Maybe the Dems could draft a bill that includes both, and see if the GOP would vote for such a bill. Larry the Cable Guy @ 1:20pm said, “Only after the GOP members get a chance to vote on the Non-Recommended budget. Give ‘em a chance to whoop and holler about the cuts. Now that there would be funny.” That’s an interesting idea - would the GOP actually vote for a bill that cuts education spending? It would also put some fence-sitting Dems on notice that this is what must happen if the tax rate extension does not pass. - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:47 pm: @ Rich and Willy, See, this is the problem. I want to separate the politics from the policy. Politics is how we got tow where we are today. The state robbed the pension system so they didn’t have to incur the wrath of the voters when Illinois had a revenue problem. And, everyone complains about property tax rates here in Illinois. Much of that problem has to do with the fact that the state does not collect enough revenue to pay a “fair share” of education expenses. So you can make this issue simple if you want and tell jokes, but it’s a real issue that requires real solutions. You can’t just laugh it away today and then complain tomorrow when the problem gets worse. See, silly me, I prefer to deal with it. - fed up - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:56 pm: Try-4-Truth. As much as you want to Blame the GOP for the problems, guess what not one GOP vote was needed to pass the “temporary” tax hike and not one GOP vote is needed to pass this extension of the tax. The DEMs cant heard all the cats to get the votes. - lake county democrat - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 1:59 pm: I’m the opposite of some of the commenters here in that I *like* referendums - the real kind where you need an effort to get them on the ballot (though not as high as we currently have) and they, you know, count. - dupage dan - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:00 pm: Our form of government is a representative republic, not a pure democracy. Specifically, we elect folks to represent our views in Springfield. Do. Your. Job. Either that or give me your salary for doing it for you. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:00 pm: ===Politics is how we got tow where we are today.=== You want to separate the politics from the policy? That’s like separating peanut butter from jelly, Laurel from Hardy, Tom Cross from Golfing, impossibilities. Good politics is good government. They go together. The math is the math, no matter how much righteous indignation you want to toss in there. Math has no emotion. The only emotion math has is when the numbers tell you a truth you may not like. A weeks pay, is a weeks pay, is a weeks pay. - Demoralized - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:01 pm: @dupage dan: Well said. - Sunshine - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:01 pm: Illinois has a history of finding money to fix problems, then the voters look the other way; once they do, the politicians apply the lion’s share of the ‘new’ money elsewhere. This is the way of Illinois politics and is a major reason we are at the bottom of the heap when it comes to fiscal responsibility…. and trust. If we let the temporary tax expire, it will hurt the children; if we let the temporary tax expire, it will hurt the poor,; if we let the temporary tax expire, it will hurt the old. Fact is, if we let the temporary tax expire it will challenge the politicians to do their jobs and cut pork barrel, special interests, and wasteful spending. It will cause them, in particular Quinn and Madigan, to think of something other than their own personal power. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:05 pm: Nice speech, Sunshine, but it was all heat and no light. Please enlighten us. - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:06 pm: @ Willy, Good government is not good politics if the conventional wisdom is cut services and cut revenue. You accuse me of being “self righteous”. That’s an interesting attack when all I was doing was putting the actual numbers together. I never disputed that it was a week’s pay. Never. All I did was quantify that. Math is math and I showed my work. Now, if you want to live in a world where the snappiest sound bite wins the day, then sure, we need to just govern to the lowest common denominator. But, what if we used evidenced based arguments instead? What if actually tried to solve problems. Again, your way got us into this mess. Math is math, and I’m comfortable with my numbers. Are you comfortable with yours? - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:08 pm: @ Sunshine, Find me a few billions dollars on pork, then I’m with you. (PS, you can’t so don’t try) - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:09 pm: == Give the people of this state a chance to vote for lower taxes and they’ll vote Yes. Give the a chance to vote for more services and they’ll vote Yes. == So the voters wont do any worse than their Representatives are doing right now. Might as well get an accurate gauge of what “the people think” instead of both sides parroting that their doing the will of the people. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:15 pm: Have a referendum, but give the voters a choice between making the tax increase permanent or cutting spending. I can live with that. - anonymoose - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:21 pm: Can’t wait for the upcoming November 2014 election…lines will be around the block as people want to figure out and read all these completely unnecessary “referen-dumbs” - at the polling place - of course. Just put the signs out front - “Extra long voting lines brought to you by House Speaker Michael J. Madigan and your Illinois General Assembly.” - Annie - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:21 pm: If I could add one vote for every GOP house and senate member who privately said they did not know how we would’ve survived during the past year without the tax increase, there would be votes to spare in each Chamber. At a minimum, Poe, Brauer, Mitchell and Scherer ought to stand up for their AFSCME members. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:21 pm: I said “righteous indignation” - Righteous indignation is typically a reactive emotion of anger over perceived mistreatment, insult, or malice. That is a bit different than “self righteous” Seeing a week’s pay as impeding the ideal of doing “right”, the math takes the ideal to that denominator; a week’s pay. Speaker Tip O’Neill, one of America’s finest dealmakers of public policy while understanding the politics driving the issue made the phrase, “…. And good politics is good policy”. Because it doesn’t jive with your ideal, doesn’t make it less true than when the Speaker would say it. The barn is still the same, getting around it still ends the same too . - forwhatitsworth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:23 pm: Why can’t the public decide / vote on what kind of an income tax structure would be best for the masses in Illinois? - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:28 pm: @ Willy Either way, your attempt at humor has not addressed the point. I can quote a whole bunch of people, even Tip O’Neil if you want. It doesn’t move the ball down the field one yard. You believe what you want to believe, but economics and data-driven public policy is not as intuitive as you think. Raising the minimum wage increases jobs not the opposite, food stamps (SNAP) return more to the economy than the program costs, tax cuts are the worse form of economic stimulus, etc. These are all concepts where people could vote on and be on the wrong side. The whole politics vs policy debate has been debased so much that many think that if it “feels” right, it must be. So no, I’m not mad. I’ll keep typing facts, you keep being witty. I’m sure you’ll win, because witty beats facts in today’s world. - Sunshine - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:29 pm: T4T Pork dole-outs have occurred over several administrations. Bridges, roads, many favors over time has led to us being broke. Of course, in your infinite wisdom that doesn’t amount to billions. Gee, wonder where that money went.Must have all been good causes that have all paid back handsomely? - Ahoy! - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:30 pm: Voted yes, it would be consistent with other issues this session such as minimum wage. Let’s let the voters speak and not rely on polling, excellent idea. - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:30 pm: BTW, all of those concepts are true based on empirical data. - Sunshine - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:32 pm: Rich…You are in the middle of the chaos on a daily basis. I’m not the one to enlighten you, as you see it every day. Why are we at the bottom….leadership, or should I say a severe lack thereof. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:33 pm: ===Either way, your attempt at humor has not addressed the point. === “self righteous” versus understanding “righteous indignation” really sums up everything for me. A week’s pay. It is what it is. That is a fact. You keep with the soapbox. - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:33 pm: Roads and bridges are pork? Ok, but I want by roads and bridges fixed. Don’t you? Maybe not. Try again. - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:44 pm: Mr. Willy, This will be the last of it because this exercise is pointless. Just because I disagree with you, doesn’t make me wrong. I have a point, you have a point. Again, I never disagreed with that being a week’s pay. So that’s it, no more. My soap box is about looking at public problems through the lens of data and doing what works. If that is “self-righteous” then paint me with that brush. But, making fun of me doesn’t diminish what I said. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 2:52 pm: It is pitiful that citizens have to browbeat their elected officials on this. You want more taxes, then do it honorably. Let this SOB expire as promised, then talk to us like we are adults with the money you want to take. The way this is being done is only exposing Illinois government officials as people willing to do anything, even when it is the wrong thing. After Ryan, after Blagojevich - we don’t need this too. Polls show that our state leaders have little credibility. You build it by honoring your commitments. Start doing the job necessary to restore Illinoisans faith in their government, by honoring the commitment made in 2011. Then treat us with respect. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:00 pm: ===My soap box is about looking at public problems through the lens of data and doing what works. If that is “self-righteous” then paint me with that brush.=== You are a “True Believer” and I know we can use more of you, but to think ignoring or dismissing the political as not going hand in hand to achieve what you would like to see ignores the realities, both good and bad realities. - Try-4-Truth - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:13 pm: Mr. Willy, You are correct, I am dismissing the politics of the situation. I used to draw a salary because of politics. Now, I’m on the other side. Illinois has always been a low tax state. And it has cost us. We can see the results of that today. High property taxes, high local fees (especially business fees), low performing schools, out of control pension debt. These are all issues that could have been addressed decades ago, if Illinois “leaders” had the political will to do what was necessary. Now, we’re stuck with a choice: Either give a little on the tax issue, or dismantle the whole thing. I do believe it’s that stark. So you’re right. I’m tired of doing what’s right “politically”. Vanilla man’s comments above are right on target. Stand up, do what you think is necessary, either way. - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:19 pm: ==At a minimum, Poe, Brauer, Mitchell and Scherer ought to stand up for their AFSCME members.== Their job isn’t to represent AFSCME, their job is to represent their district, of which AFSCME members are only small part of. Believe it or not, there are occasions when many feel the best interests of their district and State do not mesh with the opinion of a union lobbyist group. - Joan P. - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:26 pm: I would support this only if each voter were also required to state which programs and services he’d cut. - A guy... - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:32 pm: Here’s the single best reason to add it. Madigan is packing the ballot with referendums to get traditional Dems out. Toss one referendum to the loyal opposition so they can blow their bugles and get their folks out. That’s why the GOP will be for it (except that great patriot OW) and the Dems will be against it. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:35 pm: No. If you support the income tax at 5%, vote for Quinn. If you don’t, vote for Rauner. The Governor’s race IS the tax referendum. - A guy... - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:35 pm: ===Joan P. - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:26 pm: I would support this only if each voter were also required to state which programs and services he’d cut.=== And this of course, voids your vote. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:47 pm: ===That’s why the GOP will be for it (except that great patriot OW) and the Dems will be against it.=== How do the Raunerites feel about it? lol Look, either do your job, vote up or down, and use that vote to leverage and curry favor in the Districts. See, the difference between Dems and Raunerites and the GOP is that the Dems can generate a GOTV off this. Raunerites can’t even control voters to vote Rauner. The ILGOP had and failed with “Call me, Maybe” married to. “Fire Madigan” with Veto-Proof majorities as the result. It’s like you were home sick they taught GOTV at Campaign School. It doesn’t matter what you think sounds good, it only matters who comes out to vote on it. lol - A guy... - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 3:57 pm: Except you’re wrong. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 4:16 pm: What am I wrong about? The Dopey GOTV Rauner “controlled”, “Call me, Maybe?”, “Fire Madigan!”… Seen this movie, seen “Your Guy” not understand GOTV… Leader Radogno is Commander Galloway, does this make you Pfc. Louden Downey? - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 4:31 pm: Sunshine: Please, provide us all with your list of $2 billion in pork in the state budget. Business groups cant find it. Editorial boards cant find it. Rauner has been searching for a year and cant produce it. Where to make cuts in the budget is always a political decision with mathematical constraints. Democrats have cut pensions, health care, human services, education…closed state facilities including prisons. I have not agreed with all of those cuts, but you are foolish to believe that it wont happen again. - A guy... - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 4:35 pm: === Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 4:16 pm: What am I wrong about? The Dopey GOTV Rauner “controlled”, “Call me, Maybe?”, “Fire Madigan!”… Seen this movie, seen “Your Guy” not understand GOTV… Leader Radogno is Commander Galloway, does this make you Pfc. Louden Downey?=== Dude, those Psychologists down in Oswego can’t get new privileges fast enough. This post would have to get more serious to be kooky. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 4:37 pm: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it…” - A guy... - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 5:02 pm: Cold rag on the forehead. Help’s on the way. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 5:09 pm: ===Cold rag on the forehead. Help’s on the way.=== You are using that “Raunerite Overheating Kit” they gave you, good. Try laying down too. Count to 20. I’ll check on you later. - YDD -, you are On It. Governing realities are lost on some in My Party. It’s either selective memory loss, or utterly clueless to what a real choice is. Well said. - Sunshine - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 5:18 pm: ydd Thanks for asking for a recap of the last twenty years of overspending, for using money earmarked for one department and spent in another, for spending money we didn’t have, and of course your request to know where it all went? You’ll just have to scratch your head, or other body part, and say “dang, it must be here somewhere.” Surely our politicians, the keepers of favors and handouts, couldn’t have possibly misspent it? Surely? - FormerParatrooper - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 5:59 pm: My opinion is the temporary increase expires as it was passed. If we need to raise taxes, then the State Government has to convince enough of the legislators to so. Any wonder why there is distrust of our State Government? - wordslinger - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 6:39 pm: I’m in favor of a referendum on everything. I just want to see who VMan, AZ Bob, A Guy and all the other usual victims blame for everything after that, given their antipathy to representative democracy. I have no doubt they’ll find a new villain that leaves them unaccountable for their own lives. - A modest proposal - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 8:15 pm: politically - I think this question would be good to have on the budget. (for the GOP) practically - it isn’t the way to govern effectively - archimedes - Wednesday, May 21, 14 @ 6:44 am: No. It should be a no brainer that a popular vote will result in a popular majority opinion, stop the tax. The elected politicians were given authority, and part of that is the responsibility to know and understand a heck of a lot more about the budget than the common voter. As to the extension of that tax - a careful look at the budget history will show there have been a lot of cuts to the budget with the tax in place. Maybe the full 1.25 cents isn’t needed - but most of it is. - Late to the Party - Wednesday, May 21, 14 @ 6:49 am: This referendum is a delaying tactic. The votes, apparently, do not exist to extend the current rates. This is a way to delay the vote while keeping the topic in front of us. Meanwhile, before the vote there will be huge cuts in popular programs. (I’m not cynical; I just know these people.) - A guy... - Wednesday, May 21, 14 @ 10:36 am: ==== wordslinger - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 6:39 pm: I’m in favor of a referendum on everything. I just want to see who VMan, AZ Bob, A Guy and all the other usual victims blame for everything after that, given their antipathy to representative democracy. I have no doubt they’ll find a new villain that leaves them unaccountable for their own lives.==== Excuse me pal, you want to cite where I’ve “played the victim”? You and your pals can rationalize just about anything. I have no issues with Representative Democracy. I’m also making no excuses for where the GOP finds itself these days. Even the map debacle could have been avoided if we could have defeated a terrible candidate in PQ. We blew it. That doesn’t remove the fact that our map is a terribly flawed process- regardless of who draws it. I have no doubt the GOP would have been just as cynical in cheating the people. That’s what career politicians do. Take away from them what is not in their nature to do right. As for all of these stupid referendums, why would you draw the line at the only one that might increase turnout on the other side? If term limits and fair maps are on there, it’s because of a difficult process requiring the people to be active and involved. The legislative ones are easy to pile on there. That’s only been done to do harm to the voter initiatives. That’s cynical dude. No victim here. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.