125 Comments - I'm New Here - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:11 pm: #NotTheOnion - John Bambenek - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:11 pm: I think it’s absolutely critical to our nation’s security that we make 11 year olds take 8 hour sanitation courses if they want to mix sugar and water. - archimedes - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:16 pm: I’m OK with Street Vendors that sell under $1,000 in product be unregulated - caveat emptor. Oh wait - this wasn’t about legalizing pot? Oh, this is cup cakes - not brownies… - Ahoy! - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:16 pm: I hate to say this but I completely agree with Oberweis. I’m going to go take a bath now. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:18 pm: This never should have happened, and it is bizarre we could not figure this out. I like Donne Trotter a great deal, but Illinois just needlessly killed bake sales and lemonade stands. I don’t know anyone who died from a bake sale or children’s lemonade stand when we were kids. They provided a great value more often than not. And I sure don’t know many children who have access to the same sort of cash, wherewithal, resources and patience required to fulfill the same criteria as an adult running a business out of their own home under these requirements. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:21 pm: ===Illinois just needlessly killed bake sales and lemonade stands.=== Nah. We had one over-zealous county going after a kid. This would’ve kept other counties from doing the same. - Rufus - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:23 pm: Keep going Trotter - you are going to make this a Red State. - 32nd Ward Roscoe Village - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:27 pm: This is just like how I am unable to bake a healthy snack and bring it to a CPS event, like my son’s school play and sell them to raise money for the drama group. Like Formerly known as…, I don’t remember home baked goods ever hurting anyone growing up, but now, instead, you have to buy prepackaged fat- or sugar-filled snacks and sell them instead. Insane! - Walter Mitty - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:31 pm: Uh… Obie has made sense two weeks in a row….I must consult the Mayan calendar, adjust my tinfoil hat, and …. just wow… Maybe if he promises free Ice Cream for life to Kirk… He may campaign with him now… - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:32 pm: Trotter has been in Springfield too long. No matter the problem, the solution is regulation. The rest of us get that at times we take risk. If you see that kid with lemonade stand, you are just going to accept that it is not like going to Alinea. That jar the kid is pouring it out of? It might not have been cleaned to the standards that some of us might prefer. Oh well. Trotter needs to learn that government cannot protect us from everything, and it should not try. Yes, I know I sound like some tea partier. Sorry about that. - Rob Roy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:34 pm: Well why not make her unionize and or pay dues too. For God Sakes stop already we got alone for years and years without all the laws to save us from ourselves. - Rob Roy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:35 pm: That’s along not alone for years - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:38 pm: == We had one over-zealous county going after a kid. == Sigh. Well, now I’m mad at everyone on this lol. Including myself. I read the story about Chloe Stirling a few months ago and brushed it off as a few overzealous dingbats going after one kid. But when the ILGA took this up, I figured there must have been more stories or that this was a growing trend in Illinois. Apparently not. Well, at least the floor debate was entertaining. From now on, we should just halt all legislation during the final week until a budget is passed lol. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:42 pm: This is Illinois. We don’t want our kids to become entrepreneurial. - Downstate Illinois - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:46 pm: Liberal commentators, please stop hurting yourself with self-flagellation. It’s okay to walk towards the light. This just happens to be one of the end results of more and more government regulation. I like Trotter too. Any lawmaker with a bottle of Jack in his desk drawer for his end of session birthday parties can’t be all bad. Except, I think he just done gone jumped the shark with this bill. - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:52 pm: Because we have a cute little girl, we should forget that she is selling a product that can make others ill if not properly prepared and handled? While nobody likes to be the bad guy, health regulations are intended to protect the public. It makes a nice story when you talk about big bad government picking on kids or grannies. It’s also a juicy story if people get sick because the big bad government looked the other way on cute kids, nice grannies and social groups that sell foodstuff. Do we want to regulate based on the number of people that can get sick? This cute little girl didn’t sell a large amount so there may only be a risk of about 1 to 10 people becoming ill. Lets only regulate if the food vendor sells enough to put 25 or more at risk for illness, right? Of course regulations may be found to be overreaching and should be changed, but lets make that decision based on the science not the cuteness of the vendor. Or, when having to deal with these frequent cutesy complaints about health regs, I’ve been tempted to tell the Solons to create a new category called, “authorized by the General Assembly.” Cutesy vendors can receive this authorization from their legislator and if a person gets sick, they can blame the legislator. - Todd - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:52 pm: I don’t remember the last time the news reported a saminela outbreak from a bake sale or BBQ. But insee them from commercial food suppliers and resteraunts. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:56 pm: Senator Trotter, let our cupcakes go! #FreeChloe Seriously, though, requiring a little kid and their neighborhood lemonade stand meet the same requirements as an adult running a full-fledged food business out of their home seems a bit much. It concerns me they could not reach a resolution on something as simple and common as this. I cannot tell for certain if this is just “one of those things” or if it symbolizes deeper discord than normal during the home stretch of session. - PoolGuy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:56 pm: I believe in food safety, but when it comes to kids’ lemonade stands, church pot lucks or school bake sales, as someone mentioned above — caveat emptor. you can’t regulate everything. I’ve been using the same toothbrush for maybe 6 months. there I said it. - wordslinger - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:58 pm: Oh, for crying out loud, the Outrage Machine is in full swing today. Here in the People’s Republic of Oak Park, you can’t swing a cat without running across an “outlaw” lemonade stand. Desperado kids sell pop, bottled water and frozen candy bars out of coolers at the baseball fields. The “liberals” here don’t care. Unregulated bake sales fund every worth cause. Just because some goof in Madison County went crazy, like Oberweis said, it doesn’t mean the sky is falling. But it does require Oberweis to make it an issue for his weak Senate campaign. Whatever. Still got no game. Watch the peanuts in the baking, though, kids. Apparently they’re killers these days. - Both Sides Now - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 2:59 pm: Can we get a “two-thumbs up” for Todd’s comment? - Mittuns - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:03 pm: Couldn’t this have been avoided if a proponent in the Senate had pre-filed for sponsorship? - Plutocrat03 - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:06 pm: Really? is this what our esteemed legislators have to do? What happened to common sense? If the product looks sketchy to you, do what we do. Buy a ‘virtual’ cupcake, pumpkin or whatever - reward initiative, not complacency - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:06 pm: 1) This is why the Cannoli needs to be the “Official” Illinois Pastry. 2) - Norseman - lays out a compelling argument, and “it only takes one sick person…” is pretty real when it comes to peanut allergies or whatever. Those points made, to the Post, Local control, with state oversight existing versus unmitigated food vendors popping up at a whim reminds us all that government is not here to make a profit, look for bottom line cost/benefits, and not here to compete with itself. Government is really for the General welfare …and safety …of its citizens as they…they pursue life, liberty and happiness. Common ground for that safety and “common sense” is probably “there”, but difficult for all to see. - Bill White - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:08 pm: == Unregulated bake sales fund every worth cause. == Agreed, and I support those fully. However that IS NOT entrepreneurship that is people making in kind donations of food and labor to some worthwhile cause. Or as a friend told me after the conclusion of a major fundraiser for a local school - “After all the hours we spent planning and executing this thing, we’d have raised more money if everyone on the committee had simply taken part time jobs at Wal-Mart and donated those paychecks.” - anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:10 pm: @ wordslinger, it wasn’t a “goof” in Madison County. The little girl who inspired the legislation was covered in the local paper for her cupcake business, bringing her to the attention of the local health department. By law, they were required to make the girl and her family aware that the business was not complaint with local and state health rules. If Chloe were, say, “Joe” a forty-something man selling baked goods from his home for a profit (important distinction here), no one would question the health department stepping in to do their job. - McDouble - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:11 pm: I’m going caveat emptor for both this and the Lyft/Uber bill. Too bad the latter is already dead. I’m neutral on Trotter, but let’s be honest here: you’re not buying “foodstuffs” from kids for high-quality food, you’re doing it to support them. Instead of panhandling and begging, the kids are trying to offer a service, and pretty much everyone wants to support that “go get’em” behavior. - Bill White - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:11 pm: @Oswego Willy For shame! A Cannolis made by amateurs should never be acceptable. Unless you want a Cannoli crumble to eat with a spoon. - Ghost - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:16 pm: We dont need legislation to enforce common sense. This was a bad decision to prosectue, not a problem that needs a new law. This can be fixed at the next election for States Attorney. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:17 pm: - Bill White -, Amateur Cannoli making is just that; done by amateurs. My goal, in making the Cannoli the official pastry is to go after those amateurs and have the art, AND the science if Cannoli making, be celebrated in all corners of Illinois, and possibly on all street corners of Illinois too. Your hyperbole against the amateurs making Cannoli is not helping! To Sen. Trotter, It was the killing of the Bill at play here, not the safety or well-being driving this bus. - Judgment Day - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:18 pm: Ok, degrees of sanity here…. First off, really serious food safety concerns are all about what is known as “potentially hazardous foods”. I’m hard pressed to locate in the Food Code where the regs would apply to a lemonade stand or cupcakes. And I work with sanitarians (in IL, they are state tested and certified as LEHP - Licensed Environmental Health Practitioners) all the time, and most of them would tell you that anybody going after lemonade stands or cupcakes has way, way, WAY too much free time on their hands. Honestly, if Madison County has that type of time available to purse cupcakes and lemonade stands, they need to lose their Local Health Protection Grant money and have it re-distributed to all the other health departments that could really use it. That would settle it quick. Btw, the Food Code is known as: TITLE 77: PUBLIC HEALTH CHAPTER I: DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH SUBCHAPTER m: FOOD, DRUGS AND COSMETICS PART 750 FOOD SERVICE SANITATION CODE The link is http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/077/07700750sections.html) - anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:18 pm: People are very mis-informed on this bill. The girl was not running a lemonade stand or selling for a charity. the bill will not affect potlucks or fundraisers or anything like that. She was making cakes and cupcakes at home and selling them for a profit. She was taking order, just like at a bakery, except the bakery has to get inspected, and meet other rules. - Almost the Weekend - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:22 pm: Can’t wait to see Rauner and the Tribune talk about this tomorrow. - a drop in - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:28 pm: Could of been worse. Little girl could have been found out by the mayor of Peoria. - Mittuns - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:29 pm: If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. (Or pack it while boarding a flight to be vetted for a Congressional seat). - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:30 pm: === If Chloe were, say, “Joe” a forty-something man selling baked goods from his home for a profit (important distinction here), no one would question the health department stepping in to do their job. === Spot on, anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:10 pm - Judgment Day - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:30 pm: “Norseman - lays out a compelling argument, and “it only takes one sick person…” is pretty real when it comes to peanut allergies or whatever.” You’ve really, really got to nitpick the Food Code to get it to apply for cupcakes and lemonade stands. Now if it was hamburgers or hot dogs - or even ice cream, - then you are talking potentially hazardous foods (phf’s). But this - give it a break. Personally, I want the food safety folks working on stuff that can really hurt us. Cupcakes and lemonade stands don’t fall into those categories. - Bill - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:32 pm: A full refund of any and all monies that were spent to teach grammar to Trotter is in order. - wordslinger - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:32 pm: –The little girl who inspired the legislation was covered in the local paper for her cupcake business, bringing her to the attention of the local health department. By law, they were required to make the girl and her family aware that the business was not complaint with local and state health rules.– I call BS, man. Some overzealous goof stepped on it. Once you clear your desk of all complaints, you can go scouring the newspapers for feel-good stories. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:33 pm: ===You’ve really, really got to nitpick the Food Code to get it to apply for cupcakes and lemonade stands.=== Then thank goodness any legislation on this was defeated, since you have to nitpick to get it to apply and all… - Jim Oberweis - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:35 pm: Just to clarify - under the bill, all ingredients would have to be listed so that people could be protected from allergens and it would be noted in writing that the goods were produced in a home kitchen, not an inspected commercial kitchen. That was acceptable. All we were looking for was a small safe harbor exemption. Senator Kyle McCarter offered a reasonable amendment that would have exempted anyone selling less than $250 a month from having to take the eight hour $145 course. That is all we were asking for is the small safe harbor exemption. So now the issue is still up in the air. Wait till next year I guess? - orzo - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:37 pm: The number of kids, or anyone else, who would take Trotter’s health safety course is zero. That means that among the results of this incredibly silly amendment is that kids will be denied the fun and money-raising ability of the targeted sales. Or worse, the law will be selectively enforced, which is inevitably the result of overly broad laws. Donne, thanks for successfully becoming the latest symbol of Springfield’s strange priorities. How many of your constituents have extra money lying around to pay for these requirements? You might consider asking them how they feel about this amendment. - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:38 pm: Judgment Day, you must really be in love with lemonade stands. Nobody is talking about little kids lemonade stands. Cupcakes sold for profit is another issue. It is covered by the regulations. Now, if you want to sway my opinion call one or two infectious disease docs at SIU Med School, Northwestern, or UIC and ask them if someone can possibly get a foodborne illness from cupcakes, from poor sanitation or contaminated products. If they say no, then I would be more inclined to exempt cupcakes from regulation. I suspect you won’t get that response from the experts. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:40 pm: Sen. Oberweis, Thank you for some clarity. As to those labels to make clear of allergens; as a seller of edible goods, and packaging those goods, and all the labels and whatnot required, as you are saving all that money for that little girl, is there not a “cost of doing business” now required by the state of Illinois, with that labeling? Doesn’t that labeling infer some regulation and oversight is needed, and admitted as such, with that addition. BTW, I visit your Montgomery store often. - Judgment Day - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:41 pm: “People are very mis-informed on this bill. The girl was not running a lemonade stand or selling for a charity. the bill will not affect potlucks or fundraisers or anything like that. She was making cakes and cupcakes at home and selling them for a profit. She was taking order, just like at a bakery, except the bakery has to get inspected, and meet other rules.” Then it sounds like they want to apply the Cottage Food Act, except that only applies to Farmer’s Markets (See http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=097-0393). But since they can’t they are apparently applying the County’s Temporary Food ordinance to her. That looks to be where all the regs come into play. But here’s the key. Health departments do not have to permit temporary events. That’s optional, it’s not something covered/required to have a chartered health department. IMO, they do it (permit and fees) because it tends to be increased cash flow for the health department. It just looks like they are wasting resources chasing their collective tails. - OneMan - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:41 pm: The Reader had something a while back about how hard it was for the shared kitchen operators in Chicago with all the rules and regulations… Again how much of this is about protecting existing interests… - logic not emotion - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:43 pm: The girl was clearly running a business - like a bakery, pasty chef, or caterer. The fact that she was young only adds to the concerns that she might not be aware of potential allergies, proper sanitation, food safety protocols and etc. I admire the girl’s initiative; but agree that the health department needed to do something. The health department was in a “no-win” situation. If they did nothing, other permitted vendors could justifiably yell favoritism and they’d be at risk of even worse negative publicity if someone got sick or died. They chose to put protection of the public and ensuring a level playing field for vendors above the risk of negative publicity. Isn’t that what we want from public health? - Skeptic - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:48 pm: I remember one day someone was brewing a pot of coffee and someone else commented that he needed to rinse out the filter basket first because some people are allergic to caffeine. The reaction? “If they’re that allergic, they shouldn’t be drinking out of a public coffee pot.” If you’re that allergic to peanuts, you probably shouldn’t be eating foods cooked in other people’s kitchens. Wait! I know! Do like with cigarettes. Require them to have a big warning label with a skull and crossbones that says, “WARNING: THIS INNOCENT LOOKING CUPCAKE COULD CAUSE SERIOUS HARM OR DEATH!” And then you’ve just created a market for warning labels (which of course must be printed in Illinois), creating Illinois jobs. It’s a win-win! - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:57 pm: Can’t wait to see the regs on medical cannabis products… - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:59 pm: Senator, other than hearing about the big bad government agency who went after the little girl, what research did you do on the bill. Did you talk to an infectious disease doc at Dryer Medical Clinic about the risk of foodborne illness? Certainly, its within your prerogative to set up exemptions in state regulations, but it would seem to be an obligation on your point to at least perform a cursory check of the science behind the requirement. You indicate your main complaint is the training. Discuss with that infectious disease doc about the large potential for pathogens to be spread by poor handling. You probably employ food sanitarians to ensure the appropriate handling of your products. If after researching the science, you decide to pursue an exemption of the small guys, I ask you to defend public health officials from criticism when an foodborne outbreak does occur among folks purchasing food from vendors exempted by the General Assembly. However, I suspect our state’s ability to identify foodborne outbreaks will diminish with the General Assembly’s continued mishandling of the budget. Plus, what good public health specialist would want to work for a state that has treated its employees so shabbily. - WAK - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:59 pm: I was directly involved in the creation of Illinois’ Cottage Food Law which was created because we do have a problem with some (not all) but some (far more than one) local health departments across the state that have taken similar actions in situations that warranted it even less than the “cup cake girl situation.” The IL Cottage Food law was created in response to a number of health department kicking homebakers out of farmers markets including retired disable people on fixed incomes. It did appear what Cloe was doing was more than a charity bake sale but there have been health departments that have even tried to regulate or shutdown charity bake sales. Regulations have their place but they need to be scale and risk appropriate, many of our local and state health regulations are not. Regardless of the poison pill, this bill was weak as all it did was authorize local governments to allow home baking operations like Cloe’s. When working on the cottage food law we worked very hard to make it a state wide law knowing that the health departments that were the problem to begin with would not allow cottage food operations if it were left to simply just local control and the bill just authorized the local creation of cottage food ordinances. - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:05 pm: Norseman, you can get ill touching a door nob. Government cannot prevent all illness. When you buy that lemonade, you are going to take risks. No reasonable person would believe that the risks are hidden. If you want a 100% safe world, move into a bubble. - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:05 pm: Anonymous 3:57 p.m. Have at it: http://www.idph.state.il.us/rulesregs/2014_Rules/77_IAC_946_4-18.pdf - 4 percent - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:11 pm: I’d suggest to Senator Trotter that bringing a gun on an airplane is a greater risk to public health than homemade cupcakes. - Judgment Day - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:12 pm: “Judgment Day, you must really be in love with lemonade stands. Nobody is talking about little kids lemonade stands. Cupcakes sold for profit is another issue. It is covered by the regulations. Now, if you want to sway my opinion call one or two infectious disease docs at SIU Med School, Northwestern, or UIC and ask them if someone can possibly get a foodborne illness from cupcakes, from poor sanitation or contaminated products. If they say no, then I would be more inclined to exempt cupcakes from regulation. I suspect you won’t get that response from the experts.” ————— Norseman, here’s reality. Just a touch of it. All Municipalities in Cook County are required to do their own food safety inspections - unless they have a chartered health department (6 exist in Cook County). About 45 to 55 percent of them actually have qualified sanitarians who do their inspections. The rest - well, whatever. Cook County has about 200 establishments in places in unincorporated areas, and then they do another 35 municipalities under contract - for now - that ends up in the low 4,000 inspections (2 per year for each establishment). They can’t handle any more than the 35 they currently do, and they don’t normally do temporaries. Here’s the list - http://www.cookcountypublichealth.org/food-safety But budget issues in CCPHD are going to become a real issue, because they are losing a bucketload of money on each inspection they do. City of Chicago has something like 16,000 establishments. The grapevine says are totally overwhelmed - flat out buried. The system (Environmental Health) right now is a total patchwork. But you get to work with what you got. There’s a whole lot more to be worried about than cupcakes. Cupcakes are the very least of our problems. Could you probably get some academic to say that cupcakes can make one sick? Oh, probably. But ask them in reality (if they even know) what’s really going to get people sick - cupcakes or hot food / cold foods being out of temp? - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:12 pm: - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:05 pm - See Soda Tax. Nice way out there example, but the question is what level of safety do you want government to provide. If the policy is to allow risk from small vendors, then so be it. Just explain it to the folks that get sick that they were on the wrong end of this cost/risk analysis. - Sunshine - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:12 pm: Donne Trotter needs to be given a dunce hat and be made to wear it to the State Fair and all County Fairs. - Wensicia - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:13 pm: If you slap regulations on kids selling cookies, cupcakes and koolaid, does that open them up to lawsuits if anyone gets sick? - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:13 pm: Norseman, I have no problem explaining it to them. “You bought a cupcake made in somebody’s home kitchen. What were you expecting?” There. Done. - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:15 pm: Regulations like this are why too many legislators being lawyers instead of businessmen can be a bad thing. - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:15 pm: By the way Norseman, somebody sneezed on the bus, and the result was that I got a head cold. As long as you favor regulation, could you do something about that one? - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:18 pm: ==If you slap regulations on kids selling cookies, cupcakes and koolaid, does that open them up to lawsuits if anyone gets sick?== If I sell you a product and it injures you, you can already sue me. Regs like this just make me jump through more hoops, pay more fees, and put a bigger burden of proof on me. - Bring Back Boone's - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:20 pm: Won’t someone please think of the children? - South of 64 - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:21 pm: I’m proud Donne is protecting us from ourselves. There is no telling what we’d do if he wasn’t our overseer. - Angry Chicagoan - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:22 pm: I’d say it’s evidence that Trotter’s little incident at the airport was not an isolated one, at least not in terms of the category known as “severely out of touch with the general public.” - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:25 pm: What are the guards going to do when the homeschoolers bring in their pies? Wait, I don’t think anyone eats their cherry pies! - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:27 pm: Judgment Day, you rightfully point out that the public health system doesn’t have sufficient funding to do the job now, especially in Chicago. I know I took my health in my own hands eating at that hot dog place in downtown Chicago. My beef is with the hyperbole against a health department doing its job in enforcing the law. Change the law if you want to do it on resource allocation and low risk issues. Just understand that this is a policy decision that has health ramifications for someone. Sometimes those decisions have to be made. I’ve argued that such decisions need to be made as well, but lets do so based on the appropriate information and not the emotional response to one incident. What the GA would do affects more than the girl. - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:29 pm: Goooner, why don’t we abolish all food safety requirements. People as intelligent as you already know what to eat and not eat. - Louis G. Atsaves - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:30 pm: For OW: “Rocco, leave the regulations, take the canolli.” Only in Illinois! - Wensicia - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:32 pm: ==If I sell you a product and it injures you, you can already sue me.== Perhaps, but this child isn’t offering a product protected by regulations. You are not obligated to buy that cupcake, so why should you expect the regulations on products sold commercially should protect you legally? - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:35 pm: Wensicia, most regulations and these regulations in particular don’t protect you from liability if someone gets sick from your food. - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:38 pm: Norseman, Because a reasonable person is capable of establishing different expectations going into McDonalds as opposed to buying something from a kid on the street. People are capable of evaluating risk, and how much risk is acceptable. People want the meat at the grocery store to pass inspection. When it comes to a lemonade stand, they are willing to take a risk. Welcome to civilized society. That’s how things work. - Big Muddy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:40 pm: This is just another fine example of how messed up this state and it’s leaders are. Eight hour class required to sell cupcakes, cookies and lemonade? Good grief. Seriously? This is how our esteemed Senate spends it’s days? Rome burns. - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:40 pm: Norseman, it seems you and I simply have a different view of the role of government. You want a massive government to protect you from everything. I would like a more limited government protecting us from certain things, but allowing us to take some risks. It is simply a different approach. That’s why we have elections. - lathamplace4 - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:42 pm: I feel for Chloe, I really do. But as a home baker who makes over $250 a month I was hoping to be able to take the class, have my kitchen inspected and pay the fees so I wouldn’t be worried someone would turn me into my local health dept. I was really hoping this bill would help us ‘older’ home bakers willing to comply with our health depts. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:43 pm: What those in discussion with - Norseman - fail to see is that even the most limited government, a government “hands off”, does not negate the ideal that government’s role in our life, liberty, and pursuing that happiness, is that of ensuring, to the best of its ability, the safety and welfare and the common good, which, at times, includes food safety in businesses. If the state of Illinois wants Sen. Oberweis’ Bill, then the chambers will find the votes, and a governor will sign it. I am still of the belief, in this very specific instance, and begetting this very specific legislation, that the optics and the goals seem to want to “be” right, but are missing the targets for both. - John A. Logan - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:47 pm: Now 54% of Illinoisan want to leave. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:47 pm: - Goooner -, Are you a lawyer? I am asking because your arguments seem to be of the legal argument approach… - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:50 pm: Just looked it up, Norseman. There are no similar regs for marijuana regs–it would be easier for her to sell pot brownies than Shirley Temple ones. Check it out: Section 946.410 Sale and Distribution of Cannabis-Infused Products Neither the Department of Public Health nor the Department of Agriculture nor the health department of a unit of local government may regulate the service of medical cannabis-infused food products by a registered cultivation center or registered dispensing organizations provided certain conditions are met. (Section 80 of the Act) a) No cannabis infused products requiring refrigeration or hot-holding or considered potentially hazardous food (Section 4 of the Food Handling Regulation Enforcement Act) shall be manufactured at a cultivation center for sale or distribution at a dispensing organization due to the potential for food-borne illness (Section 80(a) of the Act). b) Baked products infused with medical cannabis (such as brownies, bars, cookies, cakes, breads, pastries), tinctures, and other non-refrigerated items are acceptable for sale at dispensing organizations. (Section 80(a) of the Act) The products are allowable for sale only at dispensing organizations registered with the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation. c) All cannabis-infused products offered for sale at registered dispensing organizations shall be labeled in accordance with Section 946.400. Section 946.420 - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:51 pm: Willy, and that is why I’m voting for you to be Governor. - Norseman - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:53 pm: === Now 54% of Illinoisan want to leave. === That will leave more cupcakes for me from regulated Hostess bakeries. end/snark - Still anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:57 pm: - “I was really hoping this bill would help us ‘older’ home bakers willing to comply with our health depts.” And that statement is key to this debate. This girl and her parents are not willing to comply with rules that are put in place to protect the public. They want to be treated differently because it is a little girl. And the optics make all the legislators want to champion her cause, but honestly, this wouldn’t be on anyone’s radar if it was an adult complaining. For goodness sake, it was an adult that tipped off the health department and that only after she was featured in the paper! - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:02 pm: Oswego Willy, My arguments are not a legal approach. If they were, I would be advocating for many more regulations in order to increase business. My arguments are a common sense approach. Anybody from Illinois knows that common sense has nothing to do with law. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:11 pm: - Norseman -, I will only be as good as the people I have in my Administration. Ok, - Goooner -, your “reasonable” argument fails to see what limited government actually means, and since it has no standing in a legal thought or background, your “risk” lifestyle fails to comprehend any role of government in its primary role , and some may say only role of “safety and welfare of the common good”. - Louis G. Atsaves -, you got that right! - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:17 pm: Oswego Willy, Are you suggesting that because I don’t want everything regulated, I must want nothing regulated? My comments pretty clearly stated the opposite. - Wensicia - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:25 pm: Is not the responsibility on the consumer for buying unregulated products? The choice is theirs, government cannot and should not regulate everything. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:28 pm: ===You want a massive government to protect you from everything.=== Stating that - Norseman - wants that, seems a wee bit extreme don’t you think? ===The rest of us get that at times we take risk. If you see that kid with lemonade stand, you are just going to accept that it is not like going to Alinea. That jar the kid is pouring it out of? It might not have been cleaned to the standards that some of us might prefer. Oh well.=== You do realize that the little girl is running a business. Not a random stand. There are orders, and flavors, and even Sen. Oberweis, commenting here no less, admitted some things like labels are needed. You don’t? You call out - Norseman -, but even the sponsor sees some room for “labels”. There is room for something to fit here with a business as such, but what was presented, and the holes easily seen, left me to question your stances, quite easily. - lathamplace4 - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:29 pm: I completely agree, Wensicia. - Esteban - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:31 pm: Are churches going to be prosecuted for having bake sales? - oz - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:33 pm: In Chicago poloice superintendent Gary McCarthy says it’s all about “Broken Windows” crime fighting methodology. We MUST bring these lil’ crime breakers to justice because it then stops the larger crimes from happening! Nevertheless, I see a lot of immigants selling water at the red light cams. They have no permits. See ice cream vendors on bikes. See elote stands and cotton candy vendors working the traffic as it rolls off the interstates. No permits. Why? Because the illegal immigrant is only trying to make a better life for themselves. Citizens that were born and raised here need to be sent a message that we don’t tolerate rule breakers. Get these kids into the system ASAP. Cook county jail will educate them and put them on the fast track to real money selling other contraband. Thank you Alley Bahbah and his fifty thieves. You know who you are. /sarcasm - Frustrated Voter - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:39 pm: Norseman wants us all to live in a government-protected bubble so everyone can be safe and secure! The bottom line here is, government bureaucrats need to apply common sense to laws. They’ve proven that they’re incapable of doing that. This case is the prime example. - wordslinger - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:40 pm: –If you slap regulations on kids selling cookies, cupcakes and koolaid, does that open them up to lawsuits if anyone gets sick?– The Outrage Machine continues. If Oberweis didn’t sqwauk, this one-off would have meant nothing. But by bringing it into the GA, and seeking to pass laws, he raised issues of liability. If he wanted the little cupcake maker to be left alone, he would have left her, alone, and let the locals knock down the goof in Madison County. It had noting to do with nothing except politics that was weak lemonade, indeed. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:46 pm: For every person who commented here whining about Trotter’s amendment, I say, “Why aren’t you focusing on the real issues?” The same people who complain about anything being focused on other than the state budget are the same lunatics whining about Trotter’s amendment and supporting Oberweis. If Bankrupt Jim is so good, why is he wasting his time with this instead of “the real issues”? - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 5:48 pm: ===If Oberweis didn’t sqwauk, this one-off would have meant nothing. But by bringing it into the GA, and seeking to pass laws, he raised issues of liability. If he wanted the little cupcake maker to be left alone, he would have left her, alone, and let the locals knock down the goof in Madison County.=== That is the crux of this. What is quite amazing to me is that bringing in the white hot spotlight of “legislating the hands off approach” seems to miss the mark in the optics of political points Oberweis was trying to make, and the ideal of a business, locally profiled, and the ignorant way the locals went about trying to do what they felt was “right” This Bill missed its mark in the optics and the regulatory nuances. Specifically. Period. The heat on both Trotter and Oberweis, while a fun parlor game I readily admit enjoying, is the residue of what should have been local, stayed local, and corrected locally. - wordslinger - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 6:11 pm: –Are churches going to be prosecuted for having bake sales?– Absolutely. They’re under your bed. Coming to get you. First, they’re going to take your guns, then your cupcakes. The juvenile level of discourse here in some quarters is tiresome. Regulation is bad for business, eh? You don’t mind if I move next door to you and raise a few hogs and chickens in the back yard, do you? Not your business; my property. I’m pretty handy with cars, so I might want to work on some in the front yard; trannys, engines, body work, up on blocks, draining some fluids into my own front yard. Again, what’s it to you? And I’m a pretty fun guy, so I think around Happy Hour I’ll be popping the keg, turning up the tunes and just spreading the love for those who have the cover charge to exercise their freedoms at my house. My property, right? Don’t crush my entrepreneurial spirit! Let’s just leave it all caveat emptor. When you wake up in the morning, take an entrepreneurial risk that the water you use to make your coffee won’t kill you. When you pull out of the driveway, that the bolts holding your car together aren’t hollow and won’t bust. That your chicken sandwich at lunch ain’t chicken stuff. That your bank ain’t packed up and lammed it with all your money overnight. That your doctor actually is a doctor. That the plane that you take to your business meeting has gotten a look-see beforehand and actually has a real pilot. It stupefies me to observe that some beneficiaries of the most dynamic economy the world has ever known think they’re being held back somehow. Maybe it’s you. I get up in the morning, every day, and go about my business confident in the fact that I don’t have to exercise “caveat emptor” on every move I make. I couldn’t do business that way. That makes me more productive. I can focus on my business. We live in a complex society. Regulations should be reviewed and adjusted. But the cry-baby stuff about regulations holding you back is for losers who don’t take risks to begin with, who don’t understand the business benefits of transparency, predictability and a level playing field. - DD - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 6:25 pm: yayy.. it passes both house and senate noww - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 6:42 pm: Can anyone provide recent examples from Illinois where similar baked goods produced by a child, say pre-K through 8th grade, has lead to an outbreak of serious illness? How many cases of food poisoning every year stem from children baking goods in comparison to restaurants and similar establishments? With the mention of infectious diseases and all the deep consternation being expressed over little kids baking cupcakes, it seems a miracle some form of cupcake Ebola has not yet ravaged our fair state. - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 7:09 pm: Oswego Willy, Actually I do understand limited government. Government cannot protect us from every possible danger, nor should it make the attempt. Some of us don’t believe that we need to live in a bubble. Certain things will be dangerous. We can decide to take the risk, without government there to protect us. The kid with the lemonade stand? If you want to buy the lemonade, you are going to take a risk. People took that risk fifty years ago when I was a kid, and I’m pretty sure they are taking that risk now. Did a few get sick over the years? Maybe, but we as a society can make the decision that government regulation of some lemonade stand is irrational. This is one example. The amendment simply goes to far. You mention that Sen. Oberweis supports regulation. Like many, I consider Oberweis to have a big government core. He likes to regulate stuff that he doesn’t like. He claims to be for freedom, but only for stuff he likes. If Oberweis doesn’t like it, he loves to regulate it. So his view on this really is of no consequence to me. Oswego, from your posts, you seem to be a Republican. I’m glad, since it shows that the GOP has a big tent. They can have big government nanny-state types like yourself, and there is also room for people who believe in freedom and small government. That’s a good sign that the GOP is making progress. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 7:19 pm: ===I’m glad, since it shows that the GOP has a big tent. They can have big government nanny-state types like yourself, and there is also room for people who believe in freedom and small government.=== Your complete ignorance, after reading my comments here, as to what type of Republican I am, makes me feel better that the Wild West, “limited government” bliss you seem to embrace as the real ideal way of society has limits that someone like - wordslinger - can speak to much better than I have. It’s above. Check it out. ===Some of us don’t believe that we need to live in a bubble. Certain things will be dangerous. We can decide to take the risk, without government there to protect us.=== Tell that to “Slip and Sue” Samguinetti, and every ambulance chasing Personal Injury attorneys, suing Munis, companies, anyone, because “government didn’t do enough” Your handle is new here, so welcome. - Stuff happens - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 7:21 pm: And now it went through. Ten lashes with a whiteout pen against the Sun Times editor for replacing the original story with a new one, though. How about posting an update instead? Some of us are interested in the journey as well as the destination. - ed - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 7:40 pm: Do we have a budget yet?But they’re debating cupcakes? - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:19 pm: Oswego Willy, Yes, I agree on the slip and fall cases. Ice and snow is slippery. Unless somebody concealed the slippery condition, I think those cases are ridiculous. However, if “let’s not regulate lemonade stands” makes me, in your view, some sort of anti-government extremist, that would seem to be an indication that you are a huge fan of regulation. Again, as I said to Demoralized, that’s why we have elections. We have people like me who believe in moderation, and people like you who think government should require kids to put ingredient lists on Dixie cups of lemonade. - Judgment Day - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:35 pm: “…. some form of cupcake Ebola…” Now, THERE’S a “potentially hazardous food” (phf)…. Got to remember that one…. the FDA guys will love that one…. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:37 pm: ===However, if “let’s not regulate lemonade stands” makes me, in your view, some sort of anti-government extremist, that would seem to be an indication that you are a huge fan of regulation.=== Actually…from an earlier comment… ===I am still of the belief, in this very specific instance, and begetting this very specific legislation, that the optics and the goals seem to want to “be” right, but are missing the targets for both.=== … it makes you an ignorant Dope as to what is being voted on, what the 11 year old girl WAS doing, why - Norseman - made sense in the overall, and why talking in extremes as you do, makes understanding BY you, and what is going on difficult FOR you. - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:40 pm: Oswego Willy, You are the only one here that is discussing extremes. You really really want me to be some anti-government freak, but nowhere have I made any such comments. Dope. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:44 pm: ===You really really want me to be some anti-government freak, but nowhere have I made any such comments.=== Are you really up for this? - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:40 pm: ===You want a massive government to protect you from everything.=== “Everything”? Really? “Only”, “Must”, Never”, “Every”. Please. - Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:48 pm: Oswego, You are the one who wants ingredient labels on Dixie cups of lemonade. If you don’t think that is big government, you’ve spent too much time in Springfield. You advocate for big government, but are now angry that I point out that you like big government. If you don’t want to be accused of liking big government then stop advocating for big government. Dope. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:48 pm: ===You are the only one here that is discussing extremes.=== ===- Goooner - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 4:40 pm: ===You want a massive government to protect you from everything.=== “Everything”? Trying to Frame - Norseman -’s argument in an extreme light is not talking in extremes. Go read. It helps. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:53 pm: - Gooner -, Honestly. Read. ===- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 3:40 pm: Sen. Oberweis, Thank you for some clarity. As to those labels to make clear of allergens; as a seller of edible goods, and packaging those goods, and all the labels and whatnot required, as you are saving all that money for that little girl, is there not a “cost of doing business” now required by the state of Illinois, with that labeling? Doesn’t that labeling infer some regulation and oversight is needed, and admitted as such, with that addition.=== I was calling out Sen. Oberweis on that compromise. I was making the point that this ideal of protecting an 11 year old girl is now about ingredient labels and incurred costs to the little girl, who is running a business, not a fly by night lemonade stand. Should we check if the little girl is zoned in her neighborhood for business too, lol - VanillaMan - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 8:57 pm: Oh look. Reality has been forced upon Mr. Trotter! Never mind! Except all these folks arguing over it, justifying this craziness! Look, crazy liberal nutty nannies! Your god has opened his eyes and have found your arguments - embarrassing. Learn. You couldn’t have gotten nuttier blog comments. It is like the regulators just got trolled. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 9:03 pm: Oh - VanillaMan -… ===If the state of Illinois wants Sen. Oberweis’ Bill, then the chambers will find the votes, and a governor will sign it.=== And… ===The heat on both Trotter and Oberweis, while a fun parlor game I readily admit enjoying, is the residue of what should have been local, stayed local, and corrected locally.=== It’s parlor fun. Nothing is lost or gained with this legislation to a very vast majority of Illinoisans. Glad you enjoyed it too, - VanillaMan -. - Soccermom - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 9:06 pm: Cupcake Ebola is my new porn name. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 9:09 pm: - Soccermom -, While making me blush, wins the day. Well played. - Throwing Stones - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 11:06 pm: Alcohol is regulated, yet people continue to drink it, and it makes many of them sick, everyday. just saying! - Throwing Stones - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 11:21 pm: Also, we do need to relax some of these regulations, up to a certain amount. Maybe small farms will start to pop up again, get some more apple farms making fans selling applesauce, peaches pears, etc. Maybe sell some of these locally grown goods at stores in Illinois (or even export?). Keep some money instate, and make a few extra bucks. maybe market these things and sell to people passing through? Make a demand for glass canning jars, lids, etc. Create a market for a new company. To make the above? I know its not cupcakes, but same concept. We as a state need to look at ways to work together to utilize our resources and create jobs, not by bringing companies from out of state , but by utilizing what we have here. Once its going, then tax it, but let’s not not give ourselves a chance. - Six Degrees of Separation - Tuesday, May 27, 14 @ 11:25 pm: They say Politics ain’t Beanbag…but I guess sometimes it is Cupcake. - dr. reason a. goodwin - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 12:34 am: As so often happens, basic rules grow into bureaucratic monsters. I have a friend that runs one of the tightest, cleanest restaurant operations I know. Yet, every time the inspector comes around, it costs him 50 or 100 bucks to “fix” something that a bureaucrat decides is wrong. It surely seems they are just trying to justify their existence. I grew up going to BBQ shacks and drive-in restaurants that I’m sure wouldn’t meet today’s “code”. I don’t recall big outbreaks of food poisoning. I’m not saying their shouldn’t be some basic licensing rules. But the market works pretty well. Let me decide where I’ll eat and whose cupcake I’ll buy. Let restaurants voluntarily participate in seeking an “A” grade inspection display on their door. But let’s not continue to make it harder and harder for the little guy to survive. - ikeepsitreal - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 12:48 am: as a lifelong democrat, i think its time we get a new breed of politicians, except for a handful of legislators, the rest are a joke. for crying out loud its so bad jim oberweis is actually making us look bad!!! i know this is election year but don’t we have some issues to resolve? - wordslinger - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 7:31 am: –Look, crazy liberal nutty nannies! Your god has opened his eyes and have found your arguments - embarrassing.– Which god would that be, holy man? Gee, I hope it’s the right one. - VanillaMan - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 8:09 am: I don’t know. It sounded great after the third scotch when I wrote that. - OneMan - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 8:44 am: == Cupcake Ebola is my new porn name. == Congratulations Soccermom you won the internet yesterday… - logic not emotion - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 8:58 am: I’ve had food poisoning twice (first was from some food picked up at gas station and second was from food eaten at a conference). It isn’t something I’d recommend. I’ve also wound up in the E.R. in New Hampshire as a result of a food allergy I didn’t realize I had. There is a balance to everything. Trying to achieve that balance in these litigious and political times is difficult when everyone is focused on sound bites and headlines. When all was said and done, was it the right thing? - 32nd Ward Roscoe Village - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 9:19 am: dr. reason wrote: I grew up going to BBQ shacks and drive-in restaurants that I’m sure wouldn’t meet today’s “code”. I don’t recall big outbreaks of food poisoning. *************** Watch the James Beard Award nominated short film: The History of Barbeque in Chicago for some insight in the new regulations, halon systems, etc.: http://skyfullofbacon.com/blog/?p=3116 - wordslinger - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 9:44 am: Food poisoning is actually pretty common. As to “how things were when we were kids,” I still don’t buy milk from the Jewels. –Foodborne illness affects an estimated 48 million people each year (one out of six), resulting in 128,000 hospitalizations and 3,000 deaths, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Of the types of botulism, the foodborne kind comes from eating contaminated foods. The culprits are often home-canned foods whose preparers have failed to follow proper canning methods. Other sources come from improper handling during manufacture.– http://www.healthline.com/health-slideshow/worst-foodborne-illness-outbreaks - logic not emotion - Wednesday, May 28, 14 @ 10:23 am: Word: You’re right. Actually, I’ve probably had it more than twice and most others have probably had it too. Usually, people just think they caught something when it was actually a mild case of food poisoning. I’ve had two more severe cases where I felt like I was going to die and was afraid I wouldn’t. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.