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Pat and Bruce
Wednesday, Oct 22, 2014 - Posted by Rich Miller * The Sun-Times’ Neil Steinberg hilariously bites the hand that feeds him…
Yikes. * I’ve had drinks with both men. The governor and I whiled away part of an afternoon in 2008, back when he was the lieutenant governor and didn’t have much else to do. I moderated a forum on the proposed constitutional convention at a North Side tavern and he was the panelist arguing in favor (Doug Whitley of the Illinois Chamber argued the other side). He stuck around after the crowd left and we bellied up to the bar. He was human, he was funny, he was warm and modest and he was very bright. It was all off the record, so I can’t go into more, but I very much enjoyed our conversation over a couple-tree adult beverages. * A few months ago, Bruce Rauner took time off from campaigning to spend a few hours with me - no staff, just the two of us - on a mutual friend’s front porch. He was fine as long as we didn’t get anywhere near his talking points. Whenever that happened, you could see him stiffen up and go into bot mode. Other than that oddity, it was some of the most fun I had all summer. We swapped stories about our lives and made each other laugh for hours. He was brutally frank and open about every question I had (other than those darned talking points). Like with Quinn, the conversation was all off the record, but my takeaway was that he was a well-raised, extremely likeable, unusually self-disciplined (even after a few beers) yet quite nuanced man who believed with all his heart that he was on the mission of his life. * These two guys aren’t cartoon characters. One isn’t evil and one isn’t wearing a white hat. Like all human beings, both men have their flaws. But they also have many, many redeeming qualities. Sometimes, it’s helpful to remember that.
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- Keyser Soze - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:23 am:
Just as I would have imagined. Once again, it’s down to Homer Simpson vs. Mr. Burns.
- Concerned - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:24 am:
They may not be cartoon characters, but they play cartoon characters on TV.
- Snucka - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:25 am:
Neil? Won’t see him no more.
- Wumpus - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:30 am:
I am voting for the guy I’d like to have a beer with! Yay
- Ducky LaMoore - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:31 am:
Rich Miller makes an endorsement we can all support; beer!
- In a Minute - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:32 am:
You get the sense that the Sun Times reporting and editorial staff are sitting around waiting for the axe to fall and while they do, they write things like this as a one finger salute to Ferro and management.
Maybe Neil should sit down and have a beer with Rauner and maybe he would see other aspects of his personality that others like Rich have come to appreciate. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:33 am:
Nuance and complexity dont move the needle in American politics. Promising easy, painless and simple solutions does.
Strange that, because I think life experience teaches virtually everyone that there are few easy, painless or simple solutions to anything.
- Filmmaker Professor - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:33 am:
Actually, I think what these guys are like in “real life” is mostly irrelevant. Their actions are what matters. I’m sure George W. Bush is one of the nicest, most fun guys to hang out with. But does is matter that he is nice guy when he is approving of the torture of other human beings?
- bobio - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:33 am:
I read the suntimes but skip steinberg nowadays. He has become boring. I don’t know when it happened but it happened
- MrJM - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:35 am:
If I were voting for who I’d most enjoy a beer with, it would be a closer call. But I’m going to base my vote on whether I think a candidate can and will put the interests of others ahead of his own.
– MrJM
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:38 am:
To the Post,
I know I would like Bruce Rauner.
Why do I know that? The retail politics he does so well is an indicator he is engaging, in the moment, thoughtful, funny, and curious. Ever spend time with someone you may have had friction with, or you thought you couldn’t agree? I have. But even moving off finding common ground, you get a better understanding of them, guards down, preconceived notions ignored.
People surprise you. They should. Campaigns do that too. Your “opposite number” is no different than you. The difference is the side of a fence you chose.
Sometimes one single common thread… that’s enough to turn you around on someone, and how you feel about them.
And sometimes that moment you do find that one single common thread is worth the time you take to find it.
- Norseman - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:43 am:
MrJM, I’m sure Raunervich will keep the interest of others in mind while governing. My problem is that those others will be the one percenters.
- Urbs In Horto - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:44 am:
Rich, I find it hard to believe that you would buy into the obvious fiction that either of these men would give you (of all people) an unfiltered view into any aspect of their personalities. You’re a powerful man, man! Now, if some nobody (like me) were to provide the accounts you provide, I might be moved. As it is, this is just another case of politicians controlling the message. It’s fine to hang out with them - just don’t ever believe that you’re actually hanging out with *them.* This is not to say they’re not human deep down. But we’re talking extremely deep down, well out of sight.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:48 am:
“If I were voting for who I’d most enjoy a beer with,” It’d still be Oswego Willy. And Rich for Lt. Gov.
- Casual Observer - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:48 am:
Rich, were your beers with Bruce at a cash bar or strip bar? /snark
Seriously, the impression I get from Pat is that he always seems to have a lot of weight on his shoulders. I get the opposite impression from Bruce.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:50 am:
Unless of course you can include someone like Joel Queenville or Mark Grace or Buddy Guy or someone like that.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:51 am:
Urbs, I’ve been hanging out with people like that after hours for more than two decades. I’m not so easily snowed.
- anon - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:53 am:
Steinberg is a man with issues of his own.
His current photo makes him look like Leon Trotsky and I sometimes think that he is channeling that into his writing.
- State Worker - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:55 am:
I have had an opportunity to work for Ryan, Blago and Quinn. They were/are nice guys. All three were dedicated to running State Government; however, they are corrupt. Just because Bruce Rauner is a Capitist does not put him in the same league as the current/former governors. State government needs reform. It’s out of control. If not Rauner…. Then who?
- Walter Mitty - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:56 am:
Mr.JM nails it for me… Steinberg is spot on for himself and his bias. We know from Rich or the report this summer of the nice waitress that told Rauner you can’t politic here.. He was nice. They both are I am sure. Thanks for balancing Rich, and focus the fact it’s about the issues.
Filmmaker… As Obama has found out, GW was faced with the realities of governing during war. I applaud Obama for quietly continuing many of the policies he needs to keep us safe. Just look at Drone strikes under both.. It’s staggering.
- foster brooks - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 11:58 am:
Let me guess pat drinks pbr and bruce drinks bourbon county
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:00 pm:
It can boil down to wether or not you believe that a partisan Democratic House member can be close friends with a “rival” Republican House member.
They may forcefully disagree on the Floor, …angrily, fiercely, but if one were “sick”, the other would, indeed, being “soup”.
If that can’t register, than this exercise will fall on the preconceived, not what actually is.
- Skeptic -, I find when I do partake, the company I’m with is far more enjoyable than I can reciprocate. I am sure it would be true in your case as well.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:01 pm:
I remember the first time I met Edgar, Ryan, Blagojevich and Quinn.
I disliked Blagojevich immediately. Edgar, I can talk policy and politics with. With Ryan, I wanted to talk sports. And Quinn? I will save that story for another time.
Would I like Rauner? Who knows. Based on how giddy he gets talking about how he made money off the funeral business, I doubt it.
I know that he believes with all his heart that Illinois needs to be un more like a business, and I know how his businesses have been run.
I also know that one of the brightest business minds in the country, author Jim Collins, says government should NOT be run like a business.
- lake county democrat - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:03 pm:
Steinberg isn’t as consistently sharp as he used to be, but he’s still worth reading. I don’t like this editorial though because it doesn’t tackle the strongest argument for Rauner (that his election would end one-party rule and produce better compromise budgets). And it’s take on Peter Fitzgerald is strange - not only does it ignore the immense good Fitzgerald’s “wealth independence” produced (i.e., Patrick Fitzgerald) but it just assumes he got bored: Fitzgerald had been a state legislator before running for senate, and he was going to get little support for his reelection from the state GOP, who despised him.
- How Ironic - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:08 pm:
I think Neil is trying out the new Sun Times “PTO” policy. Write something against Brucie, get 5 days off with pay while they ‘investigate’ the propriety of such musings.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:14 pm:
Yep, in our minds we know nuance and complexity is the reality but we still vote for hope and change. sheesh. The candidates give voters that precisely because it works. What does that say about the voters?
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:19 pm:
Trotsky? Full moon til Nov. 4, I guess, lol.
- A guy... - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:22 pm:
Neil is who he is and he’s around to provide just the commentary (not hard news) they pay him to provide. He’s not an enigma, he’s easy to figure out. His views on things are developed and not ever likely to change (though he’s changed something he deserves a lot of credit for). He’s predisposed not to like Rauner or any business type guy. Just read him, he’ll tell you. Someone agrees with him a third of the time; different someones every day. Paul Wellstone might not have been liberal enough for Neil. I could see him liking Pat. Anyone could and should. His absent minded professor routine isn’t an act, it’s genuine. I agree with Rich wholeheartedly. Neither is who this process has turned them into. They always recover. Their families never forget the meanness; that goes for any public official. It’s far more painful for those who don’t apply.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:22 pm:
OW: Not to worry. You’ll get my vote anyway. And it’s not like I’m The Mosting Interesting Man In The World either. I’m just thirsty once in a while.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:31 pm:
- Skeptic -, I’ll drink to that!
I’ve never read so much discrediting of a columnist that people think is already discredited.
Food for thought.
- admin - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:34 pm:
Rich, I hope you will remember that. As far as Republican candidates go, I have found the Illinois media only find “redeeming” “human qualities” in wealthy GOP candidates. Is it their money that makes them redeeming and human? Is it their status or clout? Afraid so.
- Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:35 pm:
Great job by Steinberg. Given what that bozo Michael Ferro just did to McKinney, it took some stones.
- Anon. - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:36 pm:
So, Mr.JM isn’t voting for governor this year, I guess.
- bored now - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:36 pm:
i learned a long time ago that, when it comes to higher office, every elected official wears a cape. you could call it a cape of their political party or ideology, it doesn’t matter. whenever they want to go all superhero, the damn cape gets caught in one of those nails, studs or splinters all around. so no matter how nice, or smart, or committed, or determined they are, they have this cape that seems to act more as a choke chain than superhero apparel…
- IrishPirate - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:38 pm:
I generally find many of Steinberg’s columns annoying. If Sneed were male, shorter, and a better writer she sometimes could channel Steinberg. He did do a nice take down of Lord Bruce in this column though.
That being said on occasion he pens other things which are quite well written. I’m thinking of some unsigned editorials I suspect he wrote.
There are times though in his columns where he seems to believe the world revolves around him. Instead of “Sneedless to say” it would be “Steinish to say”.
I’ve never met either candidate and can go only speak from public persona. Quinn has been at this for nearly 40 years and shows it. He’s comfortable being Pat Quinn. Rauner strikes me as too thin skinned for public office. Being a CEO is one hell of a lot different than dealing with Madigan et al. If Rauner wins, and I hope he doesn’t, he may find he doesn’t like dealing with people who don’t have to pucker up to his posterior region.
- Team Sleep - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:42 pm:
I spent some time with Governor Quinn during a couple of Christmas parties and the 2011 inauguration. I like the guy. As I have stated before, he certainly is not much different when the circumstances change.
I just don’t get that vibe with Bruce Rauner. But that doesn’t mean that “keeping it real” is really all that important.
- Snucka - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:45 pm:
“State Worker” may well be the first person I’ve seen who worked for the state under Blago and describes him as a “nice guy… dedicated to running state government “.
- Not it - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:46 pm:
If we are voting for the person I would most like to have a beer with then Rauner wins hands down….but instead of beer can it be wine?
- MrJM - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:50 pm:
“So, Mr.JM isn’t voting for governor this year, I guess.”
To tell the truth, I’ll probably vote against the guy who dragged pediatricians into federal court to protect his children’s pesticide business.
But I’ll bet you already knew that.
– MrJM
- IrishPirate - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:51 pm:
- Snucka - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:45 pm:
“State Worker” may well be the first person I’ve seen who worked for the state under Blago and describes him as a “nice guy… dedicated to running state government “.
Does anyone know if federal inmates have internet access?
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:01 pm:
I’ve liked all the folks who run for office, some more than others. But what matters isn’t likeability what matters is getting the job done.
Quinn is in trouble because he is a likable failure as governor. The multiple millions he has wasted telling voters that his opponent isn’t likeable is irrelevant to the decision we need to make.
We need to vote based on how well Quinn has done. He won’t suddenly get better. If you think things are going well, reelection him.
If not, then vote for change.
- Ducky LaMoore - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:08 pm:
@Vman
Ever met George Ryan or Jim Oberweis?
- SonofSuperAbe2014 - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:08 pm:
This is not an election but an I.Q. test. Illinois is a corrupt, high tax state that cannot deliver basic services. If that works for you, then vote Quinn.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:12 pm:
- VanillaMan -
===I’ve liked all the folks who run for office, some more than others. But what matters isn’t likeability what matters is getting the job done.
Quinn is in trouble because he is a likable failure as governor. The multiple millions he has wasted telling voters that his opponent isn’t likeable is irrelevant to the decision we need to make.===
I think you’re missing the whole point Rich is making in this very specific posting…
- IrishPirate - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:13 pm:
Hinz over at Crain’s has a new column on Rauner.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141022/BLOGS02/141029923/what-one-rauner-business-deal-says-about-the-candidate
I think I’ll stick with Quinn. In private equity just as in life there have to be lines you don’t cross. I don’t claim to be perfect, but if being worth Rauner money means doing some of the stuff his companies have done I think I’ll stick with my comparatively meager net worth.
- admin - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:13 pm:
I’ve met Rauner and I don’t think he is a nice or good man. I think he feels entitled to the office and I also think he is a vindictive man who goes after people who get in his way. That much is clear.
- Black Ivy - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:18 pm:
Thank you for being fair and objective with BOTH candidates, Rich. There is great value in our perspective. #hopefullyillinoiswins
- Black Ivy - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:22 pm:
Sorry, I meant “there is great value in RICH’s perspective.” The rest of what I posted remains the same…
- Louis G Atsaves - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:24 pm:
Thanks to Senator Geo-Karis when she was around, I was able to meet and talk with Governors Thompson, Edgar, Ryan, Blagojevich and Quinn (as Lt. Governor). I did run into Quinn last December when he was coming out of the Greek Islands on Halsted. He is pretty warm and a great retail campaigner, even though he couldn’t quite place me and I reintroduced himself at that time.
Geo-Karis was great with names and faces, even knowing the names of spouses, children and parents. She beat all of them hands down in that department.
They are all engaging individuals and have good people skills. Of those governors, Thompson, Ryan and Quinn were able to be down to earth, let down their guards and show a bit about their inner selves. You could crack jokes with them. They seem to appreciate being treated normally at times instead of living in their political cocoons.
I’ve met Rauner multiple times now and have had a number of real conversations with him on issues facing Illinois. He is eager to listen and learn. He is a fast study. He can be convinced and is also convincing in those conversations. He understands government is not a business, but it does need some business discipline in certain areas to succeed in its mission. He is extremely down to earth, not something I expected when I first heard about him and his background, and later met him. I believe he dresses down because he is most comfortable that way. He got into my 13 year old Jeep with 324,000 miles so he could check the odometer, and then laughed when I told him it wasn’t for sale. I would put him in the Thompson/Ryan/Quinn category on being that down to earth and likable.
The last time I saw him in Libertyville I teased him with “What are they going to accuse you of next, funding ISIS?” and he genuinely laughed out loud.
He seems to be learning on the campaign trail pretty quickly that candidates have to be careful with their comments, or those little trackers will record something that will be twisted and contorted. The first time I saw him speak in public well over a year ago, he was a disaster, now he looks pretty damn comfortable and engaging.
Why is he running and subjecting himself and his family to all kinds of abuse? Deep down, he wants to help and give back. Deep down he believes he has the capability of “turning the State around.” That’s my impression of him. And it still remains a positive one.
Edgar was always polite and somewhat reserved towards me, and was careful about letting his guard down. He let his guard down with Geo, but was more careful with me.
Blagojevich was simply in love with himself and with his position and I always came away thinking he was the type who could turn on the charm when he needed to. Geo would bawl him out and he would play the role of a hurt little child, but it was clearly an act when compared to the other Governors she would dress down.
The most effective politicians I’ve run across always had good people skills. They listen. They appear concerned. They try to take some action on those concerns if they can. Both Rauner and Quinn fit that description.
My 2 cents on this. I agree with Rich Miller. “These two guys aren’t cartoon characters. One isn’t evil and one isn’t wearing a white hat. Like all human beings, both men have their flaws. But they also have many, many redeeming qualities. Sometimes, it’s helpful to remember that.”
- Team Sleep - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:25 pm:
Ducky -
I’ve spent a considerable amount of time with Senator Oberweis over the years. I really like the guy. He’s very pleasant.
- Soccermom - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:26 pm:
Yeah, Snucka —
“I have had an opportunity to work for Ryan, Blago and Quinn. They were/are nice guys. All three were dedicated to running State Government; however, they are corrupt.” Apparently we did not work for the same Blago, who was neither nice nor dedicated… (there’s an understatement…)
- Norseman - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 1:32 pm:
Snucka - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 12:45 pm, my thoughts as well.
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 3:22 pm:
Yes. I met Grandpa Ryan.
I said I liked them all, some more than others. I would classify him and Jim Edgar as an “other”.
I have not met Rauner. But he cannot be the ridiculous stereotype Quinnsters make him out to be. He can’t be worse than Blagojevich.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 3:50 pm:
maybe Bruce is a bit different since the summer. based on what he does in his business life, I hope not to meet him cause now he seems like a bully. Steinberg’s valet comment nails the impression.
- Killer Man of Leisure - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 4:14 pm:
I met Govenor Quinn at a performance of ‘Million Dollar Quartet’ at Chicago’s Apollo Theatre years ago. He struck me as a Chicago precinct captain that had been picked for the job because he’d do whatever the bosses told him to do. I have seen nothing since then that altered that opinion. No heart, no head.
- Carl Nyberg - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 5:03 pm:
I knew someone in the Navy who probably should have been prosecuted for murder if the Cook County States Attorney was competent.
He was very talented and nice.
- Rufus - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 7:44 pm:
Great post Rich! Just damn great! One of the best I have read from you.
- Angel's Sword - Wednesday, Oct 22, 14 @ 10:26 pm:
VanillaMan,
I think Quinn’s number one failure is that he’s attempted to gut the state pension system. But Bruce Rauner says the pension reform “didn’t go far enough.”
What’s a voter to do?