Indiana booster resorts to red-baiting
Monday, Dec 1, 2014 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Allan Katz unfavorably compared Illinois to Indiana in the Northwest Indiana Times…
British Prime Minister Margret Thatcher said, “The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” That’s what happened in Illinois. The voters know it, and the election of Rauner is a grassroots storming of the gates of Springfield.
Socialism? Really?
* It just so happens that TheStreet.com published a new study over the holiday weekend…
Socialism at its core is a political term applied to an economic system in which individual property, like money, is held and used in common, within a state or a country as an attempt to equalize the standard of living for the average citizen. […]
But if America is really turning into a more socialist country, then where can we see evidence of this happening? Are any states becoming socialist before our eyes? And if so, how do we define the most socialist state, you ask?
In order to measure the degree to which different states reflect socialist principles, we determined state expenditures and state GDP as the best indicators because socialist states tax and spend a higher percentage of their GDP. We used data on the total state expenditures for fiscal year 2013 from the most recent National Association of State Budget Officers report and pulled 2013 gross domestic product by state data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
The math? Simple. The FY2013 state expenditure divided by the state’s 2013 GDP.
* Illinois comes in as the 10th least Socialist state in America…
Total State Expenditures (FY 2013): $66.4 Billion
Gross Domestic Product (2013): $671.4 Billion
Expenditures as Proportion of GDP: 9.90%
* Indiana comes in as the 7th least Socialist state…
Total State Expenditures (FY 2013): $27.8 Billion
Gross Domestic Product (2013): $294.2 Billion
Expenditures as Proportion of GDP: 9.44%
Barely a difference there.
- Anyone Remember - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:32 am:
Truth 1, Chicken Little 0.
- kimaye - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:32 am:
with corporate democrats lurking under every rock, there is no socialism in this country.
- Bill White - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:37 am:
West Virginia comes in at #1
Wisconsin comes in at #10
= = =
This quote from page 4 of the full report gives one pause - but remember Indiana allows local income taxation:
= = State governments have specific functional responsibilities that vary among states depending on the role of local governments in providing services. For example, in many states, the funding of elementary and secondary education is considered primarily a local function. Some states are exceptions, such as Hawaii where state government fully funds elementary and secondary education. A more complete understanding of programs and service levels within a given state would require comparisons of spending by both state and local government, which is not the purpose of this report. = =
- Cheryl44 - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:47 am:
We could use a little more socialism around here.
- Steve - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:48 am:
According to the OECD after France, America has the second biggest welfare state.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/robert-samuelson-our-giant-welfare-state/2014/11/25/28f815bc-74c1-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html
- Wordslinger - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:48 am:
Sillly and superficial.
- Tom - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:53 am:
The more statistical driven studies that come in, the more it becomes clear that Illinois is not the overtaxed, big government mecca the Civic Committee and their mouth pieces at the Tribune like to portray. Wouldn’t it be nice if Illinois-based media outlets actually came up with some fact-based analysis of our state’s economy and tax policy? Naahhh, that would require actual work. It’s so much easier to just regurgitate he-said/she-said talking points without bothering to check if what you are reporting is actually true.
- William j Kelly - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:56 am:
The term socialism is not correct because socialism is simply an economic theory. The term that would be far more accurate is Bolshevik.
- Bill White - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:05 am:
What Tom said at 9:53 a.m.
+1
- anon - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:14 am:
Because Illinois is already a low-spending state, with the smallest state bureaucracy per capita, Rauner will find it extremely difficult and unpalatable to cut his way to a balanced budget.
- William j Kelly - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:18 am:
Icymi, Bolshevism is the ignorant, nasty, corrupt implementation of said economic theory.
- Jimmy Jazz - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:29 am:
“Socialism” has become a bogey word for the Right; few know what it means, but most grasp that it is suspect, which explains its value as a pejorative to describe any unwelcome government action.
Redistribution and regulation are not socialist per se; indeed, historically, the larger political wisdom in redistributionist policies in a private economy is that they reduce the inequities that, left to fester, feed revolt.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:35 am:
“Socialism” is the new dog whistle, since “welfare” became socially unacceptable.
- Sir Reel - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:52 am:
Research, statistics, data, science … nah!
Katz will continue to base his analysis on Fox News, Rush and other Nobel Laureates.
- Andy S. - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:10 am:
There are two separate issues here that render comparisons across states difficult. First, as Bill White pointed out earlier, states differ greatly as to the relative size of state level vs. local level government; I strongly suspect that if you were to look at current state and local government spending as a % of state GDP, Illinois would rank at least in the top half of states, albeit probably not in the top 5. But another issue is that Illinois state taxation and spending is so high currently primarily because it must now make up for a century of undertaxation and underfunding of its pensions. There is nothing inherently socialist about repaying debt. So if you want to measure how socialist a state is, you really need to average many decades worth of data.
- Demoralized - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:15 am:
“Socialism” is the battle cry for the ignorant who have no other argument other than to say people who don’t subscribe to their particular line of political thinking are socialists. Dopes.
- plutocrat03 - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:18 am:
The statistics in this case may not be valid because there is a mountain of functions that other sates include in their GDPs that Illinois has farmed out to the huge number of non-state taxing bodies.
Illinois has nearly 7000 taxing bodies performing the same functions that other states do with fewer bureaucracies. Their spending is not reflected in this statistical method.
To more accurately make this comparison, all the expenditures made by the ancillary governmental bodies should be included in the State GDP. This would also put to rest the false story that Illinois is a low spending state.
- Demoralized - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:18 am:
==the election of Rauner is a grassroots storming of the gates of Springfield.==
That statement also shows what a moron this guy is. Sure, Rauner won. But the GA is still solidly in the D’s camp. If this is “storming the gates of Springfield” then their army sucks.
- anon - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:26 am:
== This would put to rest the false story that IL is a low-spending state. ==
Two things are true: 1) State government in Illinois is relatively low spending, and that’s what the study measures. 2) Illinois also has the most units of local government, by far, than any other state.
It’s instructive that while Republicans have been complaining that the State is spending too much, they don’t want to discuss abolishing townships, where so many GOP elected officials hold office. In other words, Republicans want to slash the unit of government that is already slim — with the smallest burocracy of any state — while protecting the bloated local government sector.
- Bill White - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:27 am:
== This would also put to rest the false story that Illinois is a low spending state. ==
Nonsense.
Other studies do aggregate total state and local tax revenue and Illinois is middle of the pack even after the 5% income tax was enacted.
- JS Mill - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:38 am:
“Barely a difference there.” Bingo! Other than Illinois’ economy is more than twice the size of Indiana’s.
- plutocrat03 - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:43 am:
“State government in Illinois is relatively low spending”
We don’t know that.
That is because of the large number of bureaucracies (with their own revenue streams), that are doing many of the jobs that other states do.
Add in the spending done in Illinois by these taxing bodies and you will see Illinois shoot up in the rankings of State spending per capita.
- k3 - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:53 am:
If there was a “grassroots storming of the gates of Springfield” wouldn’t the HGop have picked up a seat in the General Assembly? Just one maybe? Nice try.
- Wordslinger - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:28 pm:
The Tax Foundation does rankings by state and local tax burden.
Illinois is 13th at 10.2 percent of state income, Indiana is 22nd at 9.5 percent. Not exactly a clash of Ayn Rand vs. Karl Marx.
By the way, our loudmouth friends from New Jersey and Wisconsin are, respectively, second at 12.3 percent and fifth at 11 percent.
Christie and Walker are going to get pounded for that by their GOP presidential rivals, particularly Walker, who has had a GOP legislature for four years and done nothing to lower one of the highest tax burdens in the nation.
I can’t copy links with this gadget, but you can find the list by googling “states ranked by state and local tax burden.”
- Andy S. - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:41 pm:
Another interesting point to emerge from the Tax Foundation rankings: Illinois ranked 13th on per capita income. Indiana and Wisconsin were 41st and 25th, respectively. We may disagree on whether higher taxes constitute socialism and whether they are good or bad, but I think all but a tiny minority would agree that when it comes to income, higher is better.
- William j Kelly - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:42 pm:
Where is Nixon when you need him?! Warning this video contains AWESOMENESS! http://youtu.be/c88ACshubGM
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:53 pm:
As usual, Wordslinger is correct.
Again, the charge of “socialism” has less to do with economic theory and more to do with race.
DuPage County is every bit as byzantine as Cook County, and yet you will never hear conservatives complain.
- Wordslinger - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 1:51 pm:
Steve, your Samuelson link is a laugh riot.
Do you, yourself, Steve, consider private employer health plans and IRAs as part of the “welfare state?”
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 2:37 pm:
Apparently, Word, Steve did not get the newsletter.
We no longer say “welfare state” to invoke Jim Crow images.
The term is now “socialism.”
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 2:46 pm:
The grassroots storming of the Springfield gates is bearing Trojan gifts: tax increases. Rauner knows of Illinois’ dire financial state, and no matter what business reforms are proposed, some sort of big tax increase is necessary.
- walker - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 3:30 pm:
Steve: Thanks for the link.
Of course by the definitions used for “welfare” in the article, where it includes services and benefits provided by private companies, it is not about “socialism” at all.
- ZC - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 3:45 pm:
“British Prime Minister Margret Thatcher said, ‘The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.’”
The problem with capitalism, apparently, is you eventually run out of Yale-educated CEOs who know who to spell their political idols’ names properly.
- ZC - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 3:51 pm:
Or know -how- to spell their names, see 3:45 above. Ack, I’m not carrying the spelling flag here very well.