122 Comments - DuPage - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:37 pm: When a company selects location by minimum wage, they are indicating that is what they intend to pay their workers. - DHSJim - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:38 pm: Good riddance. Illinois doesn’t need employers like that. - Tommydanger - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:38 pm: Hard to miss any company that is happy to be paying $7.25 hour. - Angry Chicagoan - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:39 pm: The companies that are race-to-the-bottom companies broadcast it much more loudly than those that aren’t. Is this type of operation really worth Illinois’ time pursuing, when even Walmart pays close to double that in their grocery distribution facilities? - How Ironic - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:42 pm: I think it has less to do with RTW, and more to do with the $7.25. Hooray! They are moving to Indiana, to pay the workers less! And next year, or the year after the tax incentives go away…they’ll move to Mexico where wages are $4.00 hour. And then India, where they are $2.00 hour. Then bangladesh where they are less than $1.00 hour. And Raunerhood want’s to compete with that? Really? - Liberty - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:42 pm: CHICAGO – Edsal Manufacturing has been cited with a $75,000 penalty by the U.S. Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration for nine violations, including one repeat, for allowing stored materials to impede exit routes at the Chicago industrial furniture production facility. “Edsal Manufacturing is putting workers at risk by allowing exit routes to be blocked,” said OSHA Area Director Gary Anderson in Calumet City. “Companies must be aware of the need to keep emergency routes free of hazards and should take all possible precautions to minimize the risk of injury.” After receiving a complaint alleging unsafe work practices at the facility, OSHA began its inspection in April and determined that the company failed to provide unobstructed exit routes. In April 2011, the same violation was cited at the facility. A repeat violation exists when an employer previously has been cited for the same or a similar violation of a standard, regulation, rule or order at any other facility in federal enforcement states within the last five years. The company was also cited for eight serious violations, including failing to train workers on the use of personal protective equipment; have a hearing conservation program and respiratory protection training and medical evaluation; implement engineering controls to reduce exposure to particulates; and prevent exposure to powder paint particulates in excess of permissible exposure limits. Several violations involve the powder coating spray areas and include combustible dust accumulation; poor housekeeping; use of nonapproved hand spraying equipment with ordinary wiring; lack of approved receptacles to capture nondeposited powder; releasing powder into the atmosphere; and using spraying equipment that was not interlocked with the ventilation systems. A serious violation occurs when there is substantial probability that death or serious physical harm could result from a hazard about which the employer knew or should have known. Since 2003, the company has been cited for 16 OSHA violations. The company manufactures metal industrial shelving, racks, furniture, cabinets, benches and desks. The Chicago facility employs 1,000 workers. https://osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=24795 - lincoln's beard - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:43 pm: How times have changed since 2010: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-10-11/business/ct-biz-1011-on-the-job-edsal-20101011_1_family-businesses-big-happy-family-factory-family - Carhartt Representative - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:43 pm: It’s ironic that they want the freedom to pay $7.25 an hour while locating close to Chicago. I think if they really want to race to the bottom, they should move everything to Gary. - Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:43 pm: Their website states they have 1,500 employees and 7 facilities. They have been in operation for over 50 years. Yup. Don’t need these types in our beloved Illinois. (snark) - Downstate - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:44 pm: The point you miss when you say “Good Riddance” is that full employment means that employers will necessarily be forced to increase wages all around to keep a good labor force. Hence, even though they are adding minimum wage jobs - the available labor pool will shrink and employers will have to pay more. The best illustration of this supply/demand effect was that McDonal’s paid $15/hour with starting bonus to find workers in North Dakota. Create a demand for workers and you’ll see wages increase. - How Ironic - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:45 pm: @ Louis G Atsaves, Well if you think it’s such a tragedy a bottom feeder that want’s to pay it’s workers the least amount as possible (as defined by law), perhaps you should apply? If this is ‘progress’, I’ll pass. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:46 pm: - Louis G. Atsaves -, If you’d like, we can take, oh, 10% of your wages, just lower what you make, and everyone else is making, then we can keep them here. You make too much - Louis G. Atsaves -, so give up your money, we can keep them! - Team Sleep - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:49 pm: L. Beard - to be somewhat cynical, the founder (Ed Salzberg) passed away four years ago. Not to compare every company to Wal-Mart, but it’s amazing how much different a parent can be than a child. I believe the line from Batman Begins is, “My…the apple has fallen far from the tree.” - anon - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:49 pm: Maybe, just maybe, they don’t want to deal with $15/hour wages. Companies do need to make, uh, you know, a profit. Yep, 300 people spending their money in a state next to ours versus in our state is a good thing.Definite snark. - Taxman - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:57 pm: Cheep labor for a cheep business. They should move everything to homophobic Indiana, yesterday. - anon - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 3:59 pm: 300 workers times $2/hour savings on wages times 40 hours = $24,000/week. Add on Fica match and other taxes and WC,say 15%, and now you have $27,600/week. On an annual basis $1.4 mil a year. - AC - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:04 pm: Has Rauner shelved the idea of ripping out the economic guts of Indiana? If this trend continues, there won’t be any $7.25/hr jobs left in Illinois. Yes, my post is intended to be snarky. While we need as many jobs in Illinois as possible, if we have to miss out on an employer, I’d pick one that put such a high value on how little the pay their employees, and how few rights they have. - chi - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:06 pm: Congratulations to Illinois on avoiding the costs associated with employers whose employees aren’t paid enough to afford healthcare or childcare and other costs associated with living decent lives. We don’t need, or want, welfare queens like Edsal. - anon - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:08 pm: Don’t focus on the $7.25, focus on a wage that will be lower than IL. So, if they have to pay $14/hour or $15/hour in IL, likely they will pay less in Indiana. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:09 pm: This should increase the amount of Illinois dollars the Feds pump into tax eater Indiana every year to provide food to their low wage workers. Hoosier pride! - Very Fed Up - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:09 pm: These are the sorts of jobs Indiana likes to brag about. Let them have em. - Team Sleep - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:12 pm: Very Fed Up - I agree with you…to an extent. Gary’s most recent unemployment figures are staggering. I may be assuming here, but given the numbers in the link below there will be no shortage of applicants for any and all positions. http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.in_gary_md.htm - Stones - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:13 pm: I hope they go the same way as the Edsel. - Juice - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:17 pm: From the AP. “Liss said several municipalities wanted their business, but they chose Gary because of its eagerness for new business and cost savings. Gary officials plan to offer tax breaks, which the City Council has yet to approve.” - Tough Guy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:17 pm: Good luck with that Indiana. You just added to your food stamp and Medicaid rolls for the working poor. Sad when taxpayers have to subsidize companies because they won’t pay a living wage. - olddog - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:19 pm: If they’re going to pay $7.25 an hour, their employees are going to be on welfare. Let Indiana subsidize them. http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public- assistance/ - Jorge - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:19 pm: That’s not going to help Indiana much just after ticking off the entire western world recently. - olddog - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:21 pm: Fixed the link at 4:19 p.m. http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/ - Nick Danger - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:22 pm: “Those grapes as probably sour anyway…” - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:27 pm: Louis at 3:43 - if you’re going to praise job creators that relocate so they can pay the bare minimum to their workers, then Indiana can have all those types of jobs it wants and provide the incentives as well. I think Illinois actually saved money off this deal in the long run. - Wensicia - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:28 pm: For a company proud to offer poverty wages with zero benefits, can’t say I’m sorry to see them go. - anon - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:29 pm: And not one person has commented about how much the company saves by paying $2/hour less in Indiana than IL. Guess businesses are benevolent organizations—who knew? - Anonin' - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:31 pm: One would think the BVR posse would vet their stories before pitching…announcing the “loss” o a a company with a boatload of OSHA violations seems non-smart BTW it turns out the NY firm hired to manage BVR “blind trust” did tell federal regulators they do do biz in IL. - gopower - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:35 pm: Is there a factory anywhere that pays every employee the minimum wage? Of course not. This plant includes dozens or scores (or even hundreds) or foreman, managers, skilled machinists etc, all of whom have “good jobs at good wages.” And it will buy supplies from other nearby Indiana locations which will, in turn, support other employees. And with a good toehold already, who’s to say that the Hoosiers won’t be able to pull more (or all) of the company’s Chicago area operations over the border? Yep, Illinois dodged a bullet. - Cheswick - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:36 pm: Who’s rippin’ whose economic guts, now, Bruce? — Mike Pence. (I don’t know, that’s all I could think of.) - gopower - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:38 pm: Here’s a fun activity: Print up and distribute flyers around Chicago advertising 300 jobs at $7.25 an hour. Then, when the 1000-plus people show up to apply, tell them that there are no such jobs. And that Illinois will never allow them to exploited that way. Then stand back to bask in their… gratitude. - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:47 pm: pretty sure a majority of the 300 new hires will make the bare minimum, the machinists will not be union so will also make less. and since they move to Gary to be “close to Chicago operations” they may continue buying their supplies here, or not. and yes I’m sure if you put a flyer in Chicago people would take those jobs. but is that something we should be proud of? being proud to pay workers the bare minimum? if I was Indiana I would not be so proud to announce this one today. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:48 pm: === This plant includes dozens or scores (or even hundreds) or foreman, managers, skilled machinists etc, all of whom have “good jobs at good wages.”=== It’s 300 total jobs. They left for the wages. ===He also cited the Hoosier state’s right-to-work law, which makes it more difficult for unions to organize and keep members, as well as a state minimum wage that stands at $7.25 per hour, the federal minimum.=== Bruce Rauner wants lower wages for all, to hire more people. Bruce Rauner wants to cripple unions and, with unions, collective bargaining. So, in a nutshell, take a 10% cut in your own pay, non-negotiable, and then we hire more people at a minimum, non-negotiable, and all the wages are stifled, for corporate profits. That’s what Rauner wants. - Arsenal - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:54 pm: “From the AP. “Liss said several municipalities wanted their business, but they chose Gary because of its eagerness for new business and cost savings. Gary officials plan to offer tax breaks, which the City Council has yet to approve.”” Aaaaand the penny drops… - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 4:57 pm: at $7.25 an hour, housing and food is where most of that money will be spent. not really going to contribute to the consumer economy in Indiana at those wages. and if these workers need government assistance how is that helping Indiana’s economy? you can barely call this job growth. - PublicServant - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:00 pm: anon, you’re a small business owner who has chosen not to disclose which general type of industry segment you occupy, however, I’ve noticed how any discussion of minimum wage seems to peak your attention. Your increased profits, come at the expense of increased wages for your employees, who now have less to spend, while the owner,s increase in profits are much less likely to be spent dollar for dollar. This hurts the general economy, and other businesses who now have consumers who are poorer. Also, you fail to take into account the increased employee turnover and training costs associated with that turnover in product quality as well as opportunity costs associated with trained workers needing to spend a greater percentage of their productive time training the new employees. If you are one of those bottom-feeding companies, please leave Illinois sooner, rather than later. This country, and in particular, this state, doesn’t need your kind. In my opinion, if the only way your company can turn a profit is to stiff your employees as much as you can, you don’t deserve to be in business. Please move or declare bankruptcy. Others who are more efficient will be glad to take on your customers, because we don’t play that game here in Illinois. I’ll say it again. Leave. Go bankrupt. We don’t need bottom-feeding companies like that, no matter how many desperate people they temporarily hire. Oh, and, as I’ve said before, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. - Toffee - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:03 pm: It’s hard to begrudge a thimble-full of good news for Gary, of all places. But anyone on either side of the border who regards this as a model for economic development is insane. - grumpy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:04 pm: So the lesson learned is that Illinois should reduce the incomes of low paid workers even further to equal Indiana? - Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:12 pm: Arsenal nails it. Gary is willing to provide tax breaks for $7.25 an hour jobs, Illinois doesn’t even have enough tax revenue to provide ventilators for kids on life support or care for kids with autism, let alone corporate tax breaks for businesses. - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:13 pm: Those who view this company going to Indiana as good riddance are in effect saying nobody paying minimum wage belongs in Illinois, and no jobs are better than minimum wage jobs. With the need for an expanded tax base in Illinois, is that view really pragmatic? - Last Bull Moose - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:14 pm: So for many here; no job is better than a low paying job that qualifies you for Federal benefits. - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:21 pm: Not to mention all the ancillary businesses and jobs the operation of the company represents. Plumbers, electricians, suppliers, restaurants, etc. all benefit from any business coming in, and many of those so affected will make more than minimum wage. The ripple effect to an economy goes far beyond just the direct wage paid the employee. Enough ripples going far enough stimulate more jobs that tighten the labor market, which will eventually drive up wages….Econ 101. - BlameBruceRauner - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:35 pm: I have a hard time believing that they will be able to court good help to Gary the armpit of America. I’ve worked in that third World city. Yikes. Good Luck Edsel, and make sure you put a fence with razor wire around everything, otherwise it will be stolen and scrapped! - The Way I See It - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:36 pm: YDD, there is always money for corporations. Not for kids on vents or who have autism. - Alexander Cut The Knot - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:37 pm: So all who voted yes this morning on cooperating with Indiana should be on board with Rauner on raising the federal minimum wage rather than do a State-by-State or city-by-city increase, right? - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:38 pm: Econ 101? you think a majority of people making $7.25 an hour are eating at restaurants all that much, and not really counting the dollar menu variety ones? yes those jobs contribute to the tax base, but if those workers qualify for gov’t assistance because their incomes don’t cover it, guess where that assistance comes from — taxes. - PublicServant - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:39 pm: Consumer spending represents 70% of economic activity, bot business to business spending. Also, in local economies that have increased the minimum wage, the economy has prospered. I realize that there are a few ideologues here that attempt to spew abundantly disproven talking points, but facts are facts. When the consumers (your workers) are better off financially, and have a secure enough safety net when needed, the local economy benefits. It’s the consumer that wags business’ tail. Not the other way around. Get a clue. - Wensicia - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:39 pm: ==With the need for an expanded tax base in Illinois, is that view really pragmatic?== Does anyone making $7.25 an hour pay state or federal income taxes? Yeah, way to expand the tax base. - justthefacts - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:40 pm: IL should invade and annex northwest IN - Lefty Lefty - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:41 pm: Kind of related to the comments: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/04/economic-collapse-prediction-minimum-wage-raise - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:41 pm: ===Plumbers, electricians, suppliers, restaurants, etc. all benefit from any business coming in, and many of those so affected will make more than minimum wage.=== “Plumbers, electricians…” They would normally be Union jobs, but without collective bargaining and Union rates, they may make less. Remember, Rauner wants lower wages, from all of us, for new jobs. Understand what’s going on…” “…suppliers, restaurants, etc. all benefit from any business coming in, and many of those so affected will make more than minimum wage.” Again, now you have waitresses making even less, more on tips from people, you guessed it, making less too… Please pay attention, before Rauner lowers your own pay and you can’t afford to pay attention; it’s all about lower wages, higher profits, society, welp, good luck with all that, as collective bargaining goes away, and the market will be more about more workers making less, more corporations profiting more, and the median dropping. I do not want to bring in 10% less, especially for more lower than before jobs, and depressed growth that won’t raise my earnings. It’s Raunerite thinking, not Republican or Democratic, it’s those not worried about growth or opportuity outside corporate growth or opportunity. Embarassingly pathetic to think; “Agree with me, you make way too much.” - yikes. - Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:41 pm: I’m now officially confused. Who says the new 300 jobs created in Gary ALL will pay $7.25 hour? I know leaping to conclusions is what many do here, but where does that appear in the article? 1,500 employees. 7 facilities. Facility No. 8 will open in Indiana creating 300 new jobs. And far too many are calling this company a disgusting bottom feeder and are inviting them to leave Illinois a.s.a.p? it would be good for Illinois to have them leave? Insane! That is “Sonny” talk x 10! - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:45 pm: where does it appear in the article that the company is moving to Gary to pay high wages? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:50 pm: Oh - Louis G. Atsaves -, only a Rauner is Sonny Corleone. Please read… ===He also cited the Hoosier state’s right-to-work law, which makes it more difficult for unions to organize and keep members, as well as a state minimum wage that stands at $7.25 per hour, the federal minimum.=== Sounds like THEY love the $7.25 an hour. Loved it so much, want it for employees. They said it, themselves. Being a shill has to be tough I bet, but reading, I’m sure, shouldn’t have to suffer. - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 5:59 pm: OW- Not everyone can start out in the corner office making big bucks. As far as “…bringing in 10% less…”, tax hikes on a shrinking or stagnant tax base necessary to maintain current spending will have the same effect. The Law of Diminishing returns applies to taxes too. And since some cuts will have to be a part of the budget solution, the effect will be higher taxes along with diminished services and infrastructure. So yes, continuing to do what we’re doing could hurt all (who remain)to the tune of 10% or more. Any job where value is created and a wage paid benefits an economy to some degree, and if enough business comes in, the benefits snowball to a large number of other businesses and workers. - Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:01 pm: Oh Oswego Willy, pay attention. Where does it say every single job will pay the minimum wage? Including foreman? Shop supervisors? Plant managers? Office staff? Live in your little fantasy world. Continue your stupid name calling. I suggest you watch a few different movies. I’m watching 300 new jobs being created across the border. What are you watching? - Captain Obvious - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:06 pm: Did anyone here take Economics in college? The higher you set your artificial price, the less competitive you are. Period. - How Ironic - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:08 pm: @ Louis G Atsaves: “Oh Oswego Willy, pay attention. Where does it say every single job will pay the minimum wage? Including foreman? Shop supervisors? Plant managers? Office staff?” Jeez, they must have a different work model over there in Indiana. What do they run 5-10 supervisors and admin staff for each front line worker now? They pay 5 guys $7.25, the rest are making 5x that? I think you’re the one in fantasy land. Where every corporation that states they are moving where the minimum wage is the lowest, so they can pay their workers more? What exactly are you smoking while you type? You’re not watching 300 NEW jobs being created. You’re watching 300 new TANIF and Food Stamp applications being filled out, to subsidize the poorly paid workers who can’t afford to feed themselves or a family. While the company sits back and enjoys tax breaks and incentives paid to them by the taxpayers. It’s disgusting, and Illinois is lucky to have them leaving. - foster brooks - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:09 pm: Indiana caN pay their welfare benefits - MrJM - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:13 pm: Illinois needs to repeal child labor laws so that we can compete for great employers like Edsal!!1! – MrJM - former southerner - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:13 pm: Labor isn’t the only place they are saving money. I bought several of their industrial steel shelving units about 12 years ago and I am very happy with them. I picked up 2 more of the same model last month and was very disappointed. I assumed they had shifted production to China given the poor quality but I guess that wasn’t the case. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:14 pm: - Louis G. Atsaves -, I guess shills don’t understand what they read? They are moving for lower wages. They say so. Rauner hates people making money. Workers here make too much. Rauner days so. Look, wait for your approved Raunerbot talking points, but let’s be clear; they moved specifically for no collective bargaining, and lower wages. They said so. Not watching anything now, but reading what a shill has to type, ’cause, well, Sonny needs his “buttons” pressing his issues. Right? Exactly right. lol - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:25 pm: - The Whole Truth -, So you WILL take 10% less? Right? Rauner says, in PowerPoints, people make to much money. Take that cut! - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:27 pm: The Pew studies indicating Illinois ranked 5th worst among the states for highest property taxes and for highest total taxes were much maligned here on a separate thread a couple of days ago. Rich pointed out, correctly, that the income tax had decreased since the one study came out, so that the ranking for overall taxes was off. However, the ranking for highest property taxes appears accurate at #5 or #6, depending on whether you look at home value or income. The overall tax ranking would go back to #5 with re-instatement of the tax rate that just sunset. Given those rankings and the dismal financial condition Illinois is in (5th highest property tax, but school districts are going under) and comparison to the condition of many other states with much lower tax rankings, the need for re-evaluation of what we’re doing is apparent…it isn’t working and will continue to worsen our predicament. Expanding the tax base is the most practical and least painful avenue. Continuing to raise taxes with the expectation that alone will fix the problem is fantasy. Some may not like what is necessary to expand the tax base, but the alternative would likely be even less pleasant. - foster brooks - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:29 pm: I worked for one of these bottom feeder companies while I was working my way through school…the plant superintendent lived down the street from my parents in a $50 grand home - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:31 pm: how are you expanding the tax base when more low paying jobs are keeping people on government assistance? - don't let the door hit your ... - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:34 pm: This will be short lived. Edsal Manufacturing in their greed is only using Indiana for their end game. After they bleed economically naive Indiana of various corporate welfare subsidies and giveaways they will later move manufacturing operations overseas to China or some other third world country to further their race to the bottom. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:38 pm: Rich’s headline nails it. This is race to the bottom, in a nutshell. We don’t need laws that push wages and benefits down, especially because they’re promoted by the super-wealthy. Per a report, Indiana’s poverty rate increased 29% since the Great Recession. Indiana’s median incomes reportedly dropped 12% since 2007. Indiana’s unemployment rate has essentially not moved in the last year. http://www.fox28.com/story/28781960/report-indiana-has-more-jobs-but-poverty-rate-increases Whoever thinks this one relocation has large economic implications that support pushing down wages and benefits, I probably don’t want what they’re smoking. As much as I don’t want to lose this company, this does not even remotely justify pushing down wages and all the benefits that union contracts provide. - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:41 pm: Pool Guy- If people aren’t working, they’re already likely on public assistance. If they are working and producing something, there is added value introduced to the economy that wasn’t there before that will benefit everyone. If some public assistance is still needed for those working, so be it. The need for that assistance may well be lessened with the value their efforts are adding to their own income and the economy as a whole. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:46 pm: - I’m watching 300 new jobs being created - You’ve inspired me, Louis. Let’s change the pay for members and the chair of the Workers Comp Commission to $7.75 an hour and hire a couple hundred more of them. That work for you and the missus? - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:48 pm: “how are you expanding the tax base when more low paying jobs” You got it. Indiana has a revenue deficit projection in part because of “lower than expected” wage/income growth. Growing income inequality has also negatively impacted Indiana’s revenue growth over the long term. http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/04/16/state-revenue-forecacast-dips/25879391/ - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:48 pm: the economics of low expectations. I hope Illinois strives for better, not what Indiana will settle for. can’t believe a Republican Governor of Indiana would be ok with “so be it” for public assistance and giving the company tax breaks at the same time. it’s depressing. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:49 pm: ===If some public assistance is still needed for those working, so be it.=== The “Let them eat cake” ideal. Pathetic. ===The need for that assistance may well be lessened with the value their efforts are adding to their own income and the economy as a whole.=== “Feel better, you have a job. Now you are working poor. Congrats!” That’s what My Party wants, to be the party encouraging the expansion of the working poor? The party that thinks Reagan Democrats have it wrong? Goodness Gracious, the way to Raunerite prosperity is increasing the numbers of the working poor, no collective bargaining, and Reagan Democrats are just too blue collar and want too much? - PublicServant - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:52 pm: If consumers, whose activity represents 70% of economic activity, are making more, then business sells more. I’d consumers (employes) make less, the economic activity decreases and businesses make less, because they sell less, because people have less income to buy. Since its a fact that consumer spending represents 70% of the economy, government should promote increased consumer financial health, for example, through increases in minimum wages which in turn increased upward wage pressure for those managers and supervisors salaries that Louie is so concerned about. - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:56 pm: Anon- The problem with your premise is the “couple more hundred of them” would not be producing any additional value over whatever value the fewer number create now, no matter what you pay them. Jobs have to create something, a good, a service, something to be of value. Paying more for the same amount of value or even less is a large part of why we’re so far in the hole. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 7:01 pm: YDD, the state does have money for corporate tax breaks. Just last week the governor signed off on $100 million in tax breaks for the likes of Capital One, EBay and CDW, all enormously profitable companies. This move has definitely produced a press release, which is the only sure thing at this point and the real goal of the Gary tax breaks. Again, I’d recommend the January 3 Crains for a deeper look at the largely fictional Illinois/Indiana border wars. Companies move between the two states and always have, but even after the “Illinoyed” marketing campaign, the net impact has been basically a push. But for you youngsters keeping score at home, here are some real numbers from a March 27 BLS press release. Total Employed 02/15 IL: 5.92M IN: 3.02M Jobs added since 02/14 IL: 79,800 IN: 58,000 And for those into that whole “state economy” thing…. Gross State Product 2014: IL: $742B, #5 IN: $326B, #16 As as aside, the media chowderheads’ other favorite Midwestern whipping boy, Michigan, has a considerably larger GSP than Indiana, at $449B. Most of Indiana’s manufacturing base is on the peripheries of Chicago and Detroit. Indiana might have half the number of jobs that we do, and produce much less than half of the goods and services that we do, but you have to admit, they can churn out the press releases. - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 7:11 pm: Word great stats. would also add Lake county Indiana has a 1.5% county income tax, bringing total income tax to 4.9%, versus the current 3.75% Illinois income tax. so this company went to Indiana to pay higher taxes. - Ultimata - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 7:11 pm: Downstate: Big business can’t move the oil and gas fields from North Dakota to another state or country, that’s why there is (was) a shortage of workers in the area. However, this is merely a temporary situation as higher wages will attract more workers to North Dakota, causing wages to fall back to their equilibrium state (the minimum wage in McDonald’s case). And the equilibrium state, in a world that is run by capitalists, necessarily involves the creation of surplus labor to maximize profits through the manipulation of interest rates, outsourcing of labor (when this possible), and other means. The prosperity of North Dakota is temporary because the current economic boom is being driven by the exploitation of fossil fuels — a limited resource. After which, North Dakota will be stuck with ground water pollution and several superfund sites that will make it one of the least desirable places to live in the United States. But even before this happens, wages can be expected to fall for the previously state reason. Labor in a given area isn’t a fixed quantity, as your reasoning incorrectly assumes. - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 7:20 pm: Pool Guy- Keep looking and be patient. Maybe Indiana will eventually raise their property tax and overall tax burden to Illinois levels. Afraid Illinois has a pretty big head start though. Check for yourself. http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/top-10-states-with-the-highest-taxes.html/?a=viewall http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/top-10-states-with-the-highest-taxes.html/?a=viewall - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 7:22 pm: sorry the whole truth, i was being snarky, thought it showed, my bad - PoolGuy - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 7:27 pm: and Indiana will have to eventually raise its taxes if their wages keep going down - foster brooks - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 7:57 pm: I’m dying to move to Gary Indiana! - Gooner - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 8:04 pm: At those wages, most of those employees will be on welfare of some sort, which means the people of Indiana get to pay part of what the company should be paying. Indiana is basically giving the company a handout. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 8:24 pm: Word, you conveniently left out the total populations of each State. I’ll wait for your further analysis that shows percentage growth and employment. Minimum wage savings is pennies to what they’ll be saving in Work Comp insurance. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 8:34 pm: TWT, do you have a link to that Pew study? It’s not under “taxes” or “state and local government” at Pew’s site, and doesn’t come up on a search of Cap Fax. Your link is kind of whack. It’s average dollars paid, not percentages. More income, more dollars paid. Look at your link and check out the adjustment for cost of living. See? Prior to the Illinois income tax rollback, the Tax Foundation had total state and local tax burdens at: IL — 10.2 percent, 13th nationally IN — 9.5 percent, 22nd nationally Per capita income: IL — $45,664, 13th nationally IN — $35,592, 41st nationally Seriously. — why do we want to emulate Indiana? We share the same location, the same lake access, the same farmland, pay about the same in taxes, yet their economy is less than half our size and they’re in the backwaters of the country on income. Enough, already, with the fiction. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 8:40 pm: Total populations, let’s see. Um, Indiana is a much better place to live and work than its neighbor Illinois. That explains why Indiana’s population is less than half that of Illinois. Is that the analysis you’re looking for, Einstein? - Illinois Manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 8:57 pm: You are all missing the point so many were arguing about yesterday. This is a manufacturing company that has to compete with the international bottom of the barrel. I am just pleased these jobs survived the wonders of Globalization - lost in the weeds - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:00 pm: A look at Kansas http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/04/we-know-whats-the-matter-with-kansas/#comments - Illinois Manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:02 pm: BTW I am trying to bring 40 manufacturing jobs to Illinois I have no issue with our min wage I could care less about right to work . I am concerned about workmans comp BUT I would like some help with relocation and cant cant seem to find anyone home! - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:04 pm: WS- Try these links again. The property tax is indeed computed as a percent of income. As far as emulating Indiana, or any other State, it can’t be done completely, nor should it be. The point is virtually every other State in the Union has lower taxes than Illinois, and yet somehow has managed to keep out of as deep a financial morass as Illinois. Your statistics on per capita income etc. are interesting, but neglect to account for the debt the states have made their respective citizens responsible for. The fact our present course is only worsening Illinois debt and increasing future costs as we speak indicates we have to change what we’re doing sooner rather than later. http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/the-10-worst-states-for-property-taxes.html/?a=viewall http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/top-10-states-with-the-highest-taxes.html/?a=viewall - lost in the weeds - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:05 pm: Next year Illinois may be the winner with its 25 percent income tax cut. http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/04/state-government-tax-collections-summary-report-2014/ Note that Indiana’s gross receipt and sales tax reduced more last year than Illinois’. Indiana also had a reduced income tax receipts in 2014 versus 2013. What is happening in Indiana? - Louis G. Atsaves - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:15 pm: @anonymous, your trolling in bringing up my wife on two consecutive days is noted. Knock yourself out coward, it will not shut me up. But then if newly created jobs are created in Indiana and not Illinois, the eventual outcome would be my 30 year State employee wife would have no work to do and she would be out of work. And that would make you happy. Now go anonymously attack some other spouse. Coward. - lost in the weeds - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:18 pm: - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:04 pm: WS- “Try these links again. The property tax is indeed computed as a percent of income. As far as emulating Indiana, or any other State, it can’t be done completely, nor should it be. The point is virtually every other State in the Union has lower taxes than Illinois, and yet somehow has managed to keep out of as deep a financial morass as Illinois. ….” Illinois ranks second lowest in the nation of return for federal taxes it gets from the federal government. The top ten on the link list shows that those that get the least return on federal tax money also have the highest taxes per the cheatsheet link. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/03/27/which-states-take-the-most-from-the-u-s-government/ - Shemp - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:23 pm: Wow, we are all just assuming that all the jobs are minimum wage. Okay. Couldn’t possibly just be low skill or entry level stuff. This place is as good at assumptions as a TRS roi assumption maker. Let’s focus on that one angle and forget all the other factors, least of which is our unfriendly work comp system. - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:29 pm: Lost- I don’t disagree, but doubt lobbying for a greater share of federal funds would be successful, nor make any difference to the structural problems we have if it were. Realistically, we have a deep financial problem that requires we dig ourselves out. Expanding the tax base seems the most practical way to do that. Merely increasing local tax burdens will not help, only ultimately hurt. - Illinois Manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:31 pm: Our taxes are not high that is the appeal in for us - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:41 pm: - But then if newly created jobs are created in Indiana and not Illinois, the eventual outcome would be my 30 year State employee wife would have no work to do and she would be out of work. - Yes Louis, with almost twice the number of employed individuals than Indiana, I’m sure she’s on the verge of running out of work. And with her salary alone, you’re a real profile in courage for applauding a lower minimum wage. I envy the stones you must have. - Illinois Manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:43 pm: http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2014/10/09/343201.htm our workers comp rates seem right in the middle. A little higher than the neighbors but looks like past reform did help - Wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:55 pm: Lost in woods, good luck on fhe refurn of federal funds. There’s an institution called the United States Senate, in which every state gets equal representation. California! 39 million people, two senators. Wyoming, 584,000 people, two senators. When it comes time to write formula for distribution of funds, all those senators, regardless of party, from all those smaller states, pounds lumps on the wealthier, more populous states. Always been that way. Plus, back in the day of the super-powerful committee chairs, those Southern boys grabbed all of the defense payroll that they could that didnt need to be on a coast. - Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:57 pm: Too bad even though we have the President , the Number 2 Democrat in the Senate, not to mention a former speaker of the house and also Rahm Emmanuel, Illinois can’t do better than 2nd worse in Federal money coming back to our state - Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 10:08 pm: Illinois Manufacturer did you read the workers comp data you posted? We went from 4th highest in Workmen’s Comp in 2012 to 7 th highest in 2014. Hardly “right in the middle” but it is an improvement. Companies don’t just move for a lower minimum wage obviously. The total package- taxes, regulation, infrastructure, quality of workforce and stability of the government are all factors. There are many more. I do think we are kidding ourselves that a 15 dollar minimum wage will work. It is a minimum wage- no one will pay my 16 year old daughter the equivalent of $30,000 a year for her first job. - rilt - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 10:33 pm: MY first job at 16 paid 2.35 a gallon of gas was 17 to 21 cents a mcdonalds hamburger was 12 cents. Gas is now 2.45 per gallon ten times more so your daughters minimum wage job should now pay around 20 dollars per hour. Right to work for less - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 10:36 pm: == do you have a link to that Pew study? == - word -, I think you can find a link to it on the IPI site. I first saw the Pew report referenced in a IPI press release about 10 - 12 days ago. - Illinois Manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 10:40 pm: You are right I looked at the map not the chart. Some of the downstate rates I have seen don’t seem so bad. Also spot on, on minimum . We are talking about a range of jobs in my example. Another big issue is energy costs . While the legis sent workmans comp in the right direct What about energy? one last point on Workers comp. ….How is ND so low with the Bakken ? - Illinois Manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 10:48 pm: http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a - The Whole Truth - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 10:49 pm: RNUG/WS- See 9:04 and 9:09. - Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 10:56 pm: Minimum wage is more complicated than just raising it to 15 bucks an hour and having all the politicians pat themselves on the back saying what a great job they just did. I do think huge companies should be required to pay a much higher minimum wage than the neighborhood pizza joint etc. No reason why full time workers for huge companies should be subsidized by taxpayers for food, healthcare and housing It is good news that the pressure has raised wages at these companies. Paying $15 dollars an hour for someone to lick stamps will just result in higher unemployment. The early results from Oakland after they raised their minimum wage are disappointing. These lower paying jobs are supposed to be entry level, temporary jobs. The idea is to acquire some basic skills like showing up on time and finishing your work before learning a skill to get a higher paying job. - GraduatedCollegeStudent - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 11:43 pm: ===Minimum wage savings is pennies to what they’ll be saving in Work Comp insurance. === Between the OSHA violations and the Gary locale, one could see how this would be important. - The facts - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 12:19 am: Rauner takes office… 4 months later company decides to put expansion in Indiana. If they believed in Rauner and his great plan for Illinois… they would have stayed and built here because the future is so bright. Headline: Rauner’s new approaches forces company to flee the State. So much for a “Turn around” plan… more like a “Chase out of town” plan. - PublicServant - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 4:51 am: Just look to Kansas if you want a real world case example of the effects of Rauner’s austerity, err “turnaround” agenda… - Anon - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 6:17 am: Leftist economic observer Doug Henwood has noted that the only thing worse than being exploited by corporations is not being exploited by them. The jobless in Illinois are not being exploited. But are they better off? The Rauner agenda may not be desirable for the vast majority of the state, but do his opponents have the right to impose their views on everyone in every region of the state? It seems like a reasonable topic for debate. - Lucky Pierre - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 6:26 am: The facts- so now Rauner is anti business? I can’t keep up - PublicServant - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 6:29 am: Under the Rauner turnaround agenda, the jobless are definitely not better off, since the operative phrase is “You’re on your own.”. - Thomas Stell - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 6:40 am: Our legislators need to pass laws to tax coporations who relocate to exploit cheap labor and sell their goods back to illinois instead of trying to hoodwink workers in il, to work for less. More revenue, and worker protections. Its that simple. - Aldyth - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 6:56 am: Sounds like they are looking for a bottom of the barrel workforce so they don’t have to compensate them well or provide them with good benefits. You get what you pay for. - VanillaMan - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 8:20 am: It isn’t even about the employees, their benefits or them - at all. They make a product which will be made at home with 3D printing in another decade or so. Remember how fast everyone got a microwave? Well, get ready for the big 3D revolution. Jobs assembling plastic parts is going the way of the newspaper. So if this company wants another decade before they diversify into something entirely different, or simply go out of business - they will need to have as low an entry level wage as possible, and as low an overhead cost as possible. These people might be living in Chicago, but how they earn their money depends upon a working environment a lot less world-class. Claiming their decision to move to Gary was based on the cost of wages only seems to suggest a complete lack of understanding from those doing the complaining. It isn’t about wages. - anon - Friday, Apr 17, 15 @ 8:48 am: PS is so worked up that he posted at 4:51 this morning. Just couldn’t sleep buddy? Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.