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Republican legislator wants SC to take down its Confederate flag
Monday, Jun 22, 2015 - Posted by Rich Miller * Rep. David McSweeney (R-Barrington Hills) has introduced a new resolution. From the synopsis…
Full text of the resolution is here. McSweeney has 8 co-sponsors, 7 of them Democrats.
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- Reality Check - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:12 pm:
News report says SC Gov Nikki Haley will call for the flag’s removal.
- walker - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:12 pm:
It is the battle flag of a force that tried to destroy the United States of America. Always been that simple to me.
For all the same reasons we respect and honor the American flag, we should shun the stars and bars.
Especially in Illinois, who carried a lot of the leadership burden of winning the Civil War.
Not sure SC business is our GA’s business though.
- Gooner - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:14 pm:
I suspect Dan Proft is already drafting an ad to use against Mcsweeney for this one.
- chi - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:14 pm:
It’s an American swastika. Take it down and keep it down.
- Bluefish - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:18 pm:
Hopefully McSweeney ends up with 117 co-sponsors.
- Give Me A Break - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:24 pm:
Have never understood why some want to display and celebrate the symbol of a group of traitors who took up arms against their own country.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:27 pm:
Way to go McSweeney!
- Michelle Flaherty - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:28 pm:
Doesn’t involve workers comp or prevailing wage so HGOP will end up voting present.
- A guy - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:29 pm:
While I agree with the sentiment, and think the state of SC would do itself a great service retiring the flag and using it as an opportunity to put something positive on their official banner…I don’t think a resolution in the Illinois General Assembly is how this gets done. Even strikes me as a bit goofy. Are we going to look at every other state, district or municipal flag and pass further judgement?
I think they’ll get there without McSweeney.
- Slick Willy - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:36 pm:
Why is the IL GA worrying about a flag being flown in SC? Must not have anything better to do.
- VanillaMan - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:38 pm:
IF they don’t remove the rebel flag, we’re going to go down there, and take back our jobs!
- yes - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:40 pm:
Where’s the anti-union poison pill?
- The Dude Abides - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:44 pm:
It doesn’t matter whether or not any of you or I think the Confederate flag should come down in SC (for the record I do think it should come down).
This is the business of the citizens of SC, not Illinois, we need to keep our noses out of this, it is none of our business.
- Stones - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:47 pm:
Agree 100% but as much as I’d like to see the Confederate flag removed I don’t think Illinois has any business dictating to another state.
- Skeptic - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:47 pm:
“Are we going to look at every other state, district or municipal flag and pass further judgement?” Considering how long it took to retire Chief Illiniwek (and there are still calls to bring him back) you may be right that we’re in no place to throw stones.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:48 pm:
This man is going places.
- Rufus - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:50 pm:
@Walker -”Not sure SC business is our GA’s business though.”
Agree. - We have enough issues in Illinois to keep the GA busy.
- Mr. Morris - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:51 pm:
=Have never understood why some want to display and celebrate the symbol of a group of traitors who took up arms against their own country.=
A rebellion is always legal in the first person, such as “our rebellion.” It is only in the third person - “their rebellion” - that it becomes illegal.
- Jaded - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:52 pm:
Just like everyone else, McSweeney is trying to get press in the wake of a terrible tragedy, otherwise why wouldn’t the resolution also call for Mississippi to change its flag design? If the stars and bars are hateful, they are hateful everywhere and not just in South Carolina. McSweeney is just trying to get his face on the cable news scene.
- Jimmy CrackCorn - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:57 pm:
Is this a cheap publicity hit, that will have no effect on the outcome of the flag coming down? Yes.
Do I care? No. Good on you, Rep. Sweeney.
While it isn’t as bad in Illinois, many in both parties (but especially in the GOP) are too spineless to take a stand and say “enough.”
- Skeptic - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:57 pm:
“A rebellion is always legal in the first person, such as “our rebellion.”” Also a valid point. George Washington was a rebel.
- Skeptic - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 2:59 pm:
But that said, it’s not the rebellion that’s the issue, it’s the racial hatred that the flag implies. We didn’t hate the British because they were British.
- chi - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:00 pm:
=This is the business of the citizens of SC, not Illinois=
The devaluation of human life the confederate flag represents has caused the states of the former confederacy to create an economy founded on cheap labor and a powerless working class. It effects Illinois every time a company moves south for lax safety and environmental regulation and cheap, powerless labor.
It effects Illinois every day, and it is our business.
- Ottawa Phil - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:00 pm:
Empty gesture; albeit an obvious one. Similar to a resolution from a South Carolina legislator encouraging Illinois to get its financial house in order. Both are obvious … and each respective General Assembly should tend to their business.
- redleg - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:04 pm:
For the last 25 - 30 years, the only flag I have been concerned about is the one in the most trouble.
The Stars and Stripes.
- Makes sense - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:05 pm:
The symbolism carried by the CSA flag that flies in South Carolina, and worse yet, the stars and bars that are integrated into Mississippi’s state flag transcends state borders. These symbols say something about all Americans, not just those who live in these states. It is everyone’s job, duty, to express revulsion in the strongest possible terms, so McSweeney has done a good thing here. And he and others shouldn’t stop at South Carolina. Mississippi, by having the Confederate flag integrated into the state flag, as opposed to simply flying a Confederate flag at a monument, is even worse. Sure, Mississippi had an election to decide what to do with the flag. Not surprisingly, the measure to remove the Confederate symbol from the Mississippi state flag failed by a 70-30 margin. Thirty percent of the population was black.
Stuff like this needs leadership, not an election. If elected leaders in the South Carolinas and Mississippi’s of the world can’t get their you-know-whats out of their you-know-what on this issue, then Illinois and every other state should express their abhorrence in the strongest possible terms.
It’s not an issue of state’s rights, it’s an issue of human rights, tolerance and human dignity. The Civil War ended 150 years ago. It’s time for people to get over it and join the 21st century.
- JoanP - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:06 pm:
While I don’t disagree with the sentiments, I think the Illinois General Assembly has other things on which it should be spending its time and energy.
- 1776 - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:12 pm:
Breaking news… The South Carolina legislature has introduced a resolution calling on Illinois to balance it’s budget and adjourn.
- Willie Stark - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:13 pm:
The “Land of Lincoln” has more than a casual interest in this subject, and so should national and state Republican parties - the party founded by Abraham Lincoln who gave his life in service of the cause of freeing humans from bondage. The preservation of slavery is what the stars and bars stands for; it belongs in a museum, not in a place of honor. Three cheers for Rep. McSweeney and his co-sponsors; all members should join them.
- Wordslinger - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:16 pm:
– Are we going to look at every other state, district or municipal flag and pass further judgement?–
Having a hard time, are you, reaching a conclusion on the symbol of racism and slavery, here in the United States in 2015?
Amoral.
- Amalia - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:21 pm:
yep, the Gov. says do it to the SC Leg. but she also says that people are free to fly the flag on private property. sorry Nikki, you just said that people are free to be racists. read up on your SC history of why your state was in the confederacy. it’s all about the people of SC back then believing that they should own people. shameful.
mississippi…you are next. the offensive battle flag is an actual part of your state flag.
- William - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:26 pm:
This is pandering. Real leadership would have called for this flag’s removal long before last week’s senseless tragedy.
- Huh? - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:31 pm:
I had this discussion with my youngest daughter last night. I took the opposite view in that there are people in the South who could view the stars and stripes as the symbol of oppression.
While there were people who fought for slavery, there were others who saw the union armies as invaders into their homeland. They may have been agnostic to slavery, but fought for their homes and farms. The people of the south lost a terrible war and suffered for many years.
The American flag can be seen as a symbol of horror and oppression by the native Americans who are still suffering to this day. Does that mean that the flag should be removedfrom the state capital buildings?
The other thing to remember is that the racial oppression was not limited to the south. Nor was the racial oppression limited to the blacks. American history is strewn with the stories of oppression.
History is written by the victors.
Rather than remove the flag, use it as a reminder of the horror of war and a symbol of what not to do to people of other races, ethnicities, financial means or genders.
- hisgirlfriday - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:34 pm:
not surprised to see a member of the Illinois GOP posturing to inoculate himself from potential political fallout from this tragedy and the perception of the GOP brand with moderate suburban swing voters in this state by reminding them how southern the Republican party is nowadays.just surprised it’s not mark kirk doing it.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:37 pm:
Illinois has no moral authority to chide another state for its sins. I wish we did. Let’s get our house in order.
- Michelle Flaherty - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:39 pm:
McSweeney is sporting a new bracelet and philosophy: WWJFD
What
Would
Jack
Franks
Do
- Wordslinger - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:40 pm:
What happened in Charleston wasn’t a “tragedy.” Car accidents and cancer are tragedies.
It was mass murder by a white supremacist who took as the symbol justifying his political actions the flag flying at full staff on the grounds of the state Capitol at Columbia.
- Amalia - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:42 pm:
@Wordslinger….word!!!!!
- William - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:56 pm:
I’ll stand by tradegy. What’s great about freedom (and blogs sometimes) is we’re both entitled to our opinion and word choice. And if you think a flag drove these actions, you’re more superficial than I thought.
- Anon2U - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:57 pm:
Will the Confederate soldier honorin’ Rep. Ives be signin’ on?
- Huh? - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:03 pm:
Just to be blunt, in no way do I condone what happened in South Carolina. There is no justification for murder.
My argument above is to present a different point of view. That the same argument can be used against the stars and stripes.
Both flags represent oppression and heinous acts done in the name of racial superiority.
So the people of the south, the civil war is still recent history. There are still living children of civil war veterans. I think there are still a few widows as well.
- Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:04 pm:
===And if you think a flag drove these actions, you’re more superficial===
As we’ve seen time and time again, flags are very potent symbols. We suffer through long, heated national “debates” every time some yahoo burns an American flag, or even talks about it.
If you don’t recognize the power of flag symbolism, you’re more naive than you think.
- Cheryl44 - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:08 pm:
They didn’t even start waving that flag on SC state property until the 1960s. It’s not about tradition or heritage or even the Civil War. It’s a symbol of segregation.
- Wordslinger - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:09 pm:
William, nice superficial straw man. Show me where I wrote that the flag “drove these actions.” Symbol, justifying his actions.
And “what’s great about freedom” is not symbolized in any way by the Stars and Bars.
The moral relativism and laziness among some here is pretty shocking. I’m guessing that if a Swastika or ISIS black flag were flying proudly on the state grounds at Columbia you’d all go apey.
What’s the difference?
- William - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:09 pm:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’d rather see the issue debated seriously, not with a hashtag.
- Precinct Captain - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:37 pm:
==- Huh? - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:31 pm:==
The ignorance is astounding. Confederate soldiers were well aware of what they were fighting for. See McPherson, James What They Fought For 1861-1865 or McPherson, James . What you are spouting is ahistoric nonsense.
- Precinct Captain - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:37 pm:
==- Huh? - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:31 pm:==
The ignorance is astounding. Confederate soldiers were well aware of what they were fighting for. See McPherson, James What They Fought For 1861-1865 or McPherson, James or Cause and Comrades: Why Men Fought in the Civil War. What you are spouting is ahistoric nonsense.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:39 pm:
To the Post,
The confederate flag as a rallying symbol, and what the flag represents isn’t about rallying all for a greater good. It’s rallying a few for beliefs and causes that our own flag stood opposed to on the field of battle.
That’s its symbolism. Today, as it was when it was unfurled in the war between the states, it’s representing the isolated minority angered by those pointing out where it’s failings lead as a symbol.
Anything else is making an excuse for a romantic ideal sold that never existed but only to hide the true symbols that those would rather ignore.
- Amalia - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:40 pm:
I don’t think people are entitled to be racists.
- anonymous1001 - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:43 pm:
To quote Wikepedia: ‘Supporters of the flag’s continued usage view it as a symbol of Southern ancestry and heritage, as well, as representing a distinct and in dependent cultural tradition of the Southern United States from the rest of the country.’
Others view the Army of Northern Virginia battle flag as a symbol for rebellion or dissent, no less then, when the crew of the Pueblo used the ‘Hawaiian good luck sign’ during their capitivity in North Korea.
My view parallels that of General George Casey, who MIGHT have said: “Our diversity, not only in South Carolina, but in our country, is a strength. And as horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, I think that’s worse”
- Demoralized - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:44 pm:
==There are still living children of civil war veterans. I think there are still a few widows as well.==
What? You know the Civil War ended in 1865 right? And it’s 2015 now. Those people must have aged remarkably well.
- Georg Sande - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:46 pm:
The flag should come down and it appears Gov. Haley and others in South Carolina are addressing it. That’s good. How about McSweeney get to work on Illinois’ issues … there are lots of them, after all.
- A guy - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:49 pm:
-===Wordslinger - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 3:16 pm:
– Are we going to look at every other state, district or municipal flag and pass further judgement?–
Having a hard time, are you, reaching a conclusion on the symbol of racism and slavery, here in the United States in 2015?
Amoral.====
Since you’ve appointed yourself as the Moral Adjudicator for the rest of the country, no problem for you. I’ve already stated that I “me” thinks it’s time to retire that flag. Heck, I even signed an online petition stating as much. Do I think the Illinois General Assembly has any business passing a resolution to this effect? No. Do you want any other state opining on our state laws, flowers, flags, vegetables, or anything else?
I’m not a fan of the stars and bars. Never have been. I have heard plenty of people state with conviction that it doesn’t stand for what you suggest it stands for. Our nation slaughtered a lot of Native Americans under the Star Spangled Banner and relegated many others to reservations with no option. The US Flag doesn’t symbolize that to me. Slavery existed under our flag as well.
The stars and bars should go, and should do so by action of the State Legislature it symbolizes.
- Tournaround Agenda - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 4:49 pm:
Demoralized: It’s true. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/special-features/2014/11/141111-veterans-day-150-anniversary-civil-war-memories/
- Amalia - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 5:00 pm:
@Turnaround Agenda, thanks for posting that story. that some still call it the war of Northern aggression and use the term overcome in that context is indicative of how much work there is to do to move forward. I think we cannot point out enough times the hateful words used by, for example, the leaders of South Carolina in those times, about the importance of slavery and their opinion on the position of African Americans. totally shameful and their reason for the fight, preserving their “way of life.”
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 5:16 pm:
The stars and bars was born through war, its symbolism as a flag is sewn together from what the Confederate states rallied around and their institutions.
It’s symbolism of representing an existing sovereign state ended with the war.
Those few years, those war years, were the only years, of arguable relevance.
- Six Degrees of Separation - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 5:19 pm:
the Gov. says do it to the SC Leg. but she also says that people are free to fly the flag on private property.
I have seen it “flying” in IL also, mostly in the rear windows of pickup trucks downstate, but even in the collar counties every once in awhile. Not often, but you notice it when you see it.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 5:38 pm:
The dukes of hazard racist?
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 5:45 pm:
===The dukes of hazard racist?===
You can make a strong case that “The Dukes of Hazard” was a mocking parody of the South in the 70s, feeding stereotypes of outlaw moonshiners constantly on parole, (how many times did the Duke boys and Uncle Jessie talk about not braking their parole?), the only way to make a living is… braking the law… corrupt public officials, sexism of their cousin/niece, and and the “rebels” are heroes, as long as you look past a few things.
It’s literarly mocking a region. The show laughed at the South, not with it.
- Willie Stark - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 5:57 pm:
To those who say lawmakers have more important things to worry about: the legislature can consider multiple issues simultaneously, and this one is unlikely to consume much bandwidth.
To those who say they don’t want South Carolinians commenting on our vegetables and flowers: let them comment, and sad for you if you think there is an equivalence.
To those who say the United States has done bad things, but we still fly and revere its flag: has the United States done good things (like help liberate the world from fascism in WWII?). What good things did the Confederacy do? It’s reason for existence was to keep human beings in bondage.
- Tourés Latte - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 6:10 pm:
That McSweeney. Solving problems all over the country. What a dynamo.
- Tammie Souza Fan Club - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 7:20 pm:
Saw him on Fox with Flannery (before this subject of course.). Completely unimpressive. Rome is burning here and he’s worried about some other state’s problems. Typical politician, mugging for the cameras.
- skeptic - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 8:08 pm:
What if it were the flag of ISIS? How many of you would still say Illinois should mind its own business?
- Soccertease - Monday, Jun 22, 15 @ 9:08 pm:
===To those who say lawmakers have more important things to worry about: the legislature can consider multiple issues simultaneously, and this one is unlikely to consume much bandwidth.
To those who say they don’t want South Carolinians commenting on our vegetables and flowers: let them comment, and sad for you if you think there is an equivalence.
To those who say the United States has done bad things, but we still fly and revere its flag: has the United States done good things (like help liberate the world from fascism in WWII?). What good things did the Confederacy do? It’s reason for existence was to keep human beings in bondage.===
Agree, but SC needs to decide this, not IL. And IL doesn’t have much credibility these days anyway.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 23, 15 @ 7:54 am:
Take a look. SC did it on their own, in a bipartisan way, without the assistance of McSweeney and the Illinois legislature. Whatever remnants of this symbol remain in public will have a very short shelf life. Walmart, unilaterally pulling any merchandise with the stars and bars on it was a big assist from the private sector.