On logrolling
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2015 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Greg Hinz…
The good news for Blagojevich—and, frankly, for politicians everywhere—is that horse-trading, the exchange of one government favor for another, not only is not illegal but is at the core of how democratic government works.
“A proposal to trade one public act for another, a form of log-rolling, is fundamentally unlike the swap of an official act for a private placement,” the three-judge panel ruled. “Political log-rolling has never before been condemned as extortion.” […]
“A proposal to appoint a particular person to one office (say, the cabinet) in exchange for some else’s promise to appoint a different office (say, the Senate) is a common exercise in log-rolling,” the decision states. “We asked the prosecutor at oral argument if, before this case, log-rolling had been the basis of a criminal conviction in the history of the United States. Counsel was unaware of any earlier conviction for an exchange of political favors.” […]
Adds the decision, “Suppose that Blagojevich had asked, instead, that Sen. Obama commit himself to supporting a program to build new bridges and highways in Illinois as soon as he became president. Many politicians believe that public-works projects promote their re-election.”
Under the prosecution’s argument, the court reasoned, “If a governor appoints someone to a public commission and proclaims that appointee ‘the best person for the job,’ while the real reason is that some state legislator had asked for a friend’s appointment as a favor, then the governor has committed wire fraud. That’s not a plausible understanding” of the law.
* From Common Cause Illinois…
“Logrolling may not be illegal but it certainly is unethical. In a state that has been mired with corruption and back room deals, we need to aspire to a political culture that breaks down voter disenfranchisement and special interest control.”
”For too long the people of Illinois have been victims of ineffective and inefficient government that has resulted in crumbling schools, poor healthcare, and high unemployment.”
“I hope that the ruling today is a reminder to everyone that we need ethical elected officials that work for the people to solve our state’s important problems. And we need this now more than ever as we are in the midst of a grave fiscal crisis in Springfield and in communities across our state.”
Thoughts?
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:18 am:
Geez, sounds like Lance is moonlighting at Common Cause.
- SAP - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:18 am:
I think the court is correct on this one. As to a different type of logrolling, can anybody explain how prevailing wage and property tax legislation fit on the same bill without violating the single subject rule?
- Chicago Cynic - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:19 am:
It’s an interesting distinction. I generally agree though you can see plenty of scenarios where it steps over the line. It won’t matter to Rod.
BTW, I’ve never heard that term before and am curious if others have.
- Abe - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:20 am:
If you know much about Lincoln and his GOP effort to end slavery (while being fought hard by the Dems), Logrolling was key to the success. To take it to the extreme (I know we are not to act in the extreme) if you are against logrolling then you think slavery should have lasted longer.
- Lycurgus - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:22 am:
Thank god common sense prevails at the appellate court. Can’t criminalize what amounts to garden variety politics. Puts too much power in the hands of prosecutors, who are also politicians in many instances.
- Under Further Review - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:29 am:
I felt that Blagojevich was guilty of a variety of petty offenses related to fundraising — cannot overlook how he handled the horse racing legislation and sought to turn it into a cash cow for his campaign fund.
As objectionable as “logrolling” is, it is politics. More to the point, if it were a criminal act, why aren’t all of those who promoted Valerie Jarrett as Obama’s US Senate replacement also in the stir?
Off topic, I wonder if it would have been better for the USA if Jarrett were in the Senate rather than serving as Obama’s advisor at the White House. Hard to say.
- Facts are Stubborn Things - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:29 am:
I think passing unbalanced budgets is unconstitutional, along with multiple topic bills. Might seems to equal right.
- Robert the Bruce - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:31 am:
We need more logrolling to get the budget passed.
- Rafa in Lincoln Park - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:31 am:
Wikipedia on Logrolling ( not the sport version)
Origins[edit]
Davy Crockett by William Henry Huddle, 1889.
American frontiersman Davy Crockett was one of the first to apply the term to legislation:
The first known use of the term was by Congressman Davy Crockett, who said on the floor (of the U.S. House of Representatives) in 1835, “my people don’t like me to log-roll in their business, and vote away pre-emption rights to fellows in other states that never kindle a fire on their own land.”[6]
The widest accepted origin is the old custom of neighbors assisting each other with the moving of logs. If two neighbors had cut a lot of timber which needed to be moved, it made more sense for them to work together to roll the logs.[7][8] In this way, it is similar to a barn-raising where a neighbor comes and helps a family build their barn, and, in turn, that family goes and returns the favor, helping him build his.
Here is an example of the term’s original use:
“A family comes to sit in the forest,” wrote an observer in 1835. “Their neighbors lay down their employments, shoulder their axes, and come in to the log-rolling. They spend the day in hard labor, and then retire, leaving the newcomers their good wishes, and a habitation.[9]
The Choice to Logroll
Human beings, whether ignorant or informed, rational or irrational, logical or illogical, determine individual and group action through choices. Economics studies these choices, including the choice to logroll, and their particular influence within the market sector (Schwartz 1977[10]). In America, political and economic decisions are usually made by politicians elected to legislative assemblies, and not directly by the citizenry (Buchanan and Tullock 1962[2]). Although legislative votes are recorded and are available to the American public, legislators can exchange their votes on issues they do not care much about for votes on other issues that are more important to their personal agendas (Holcombe 2006[4]). In The Calculus of Consent, James M. Buchanan and Gordon Tullock explore the relationship between individual choice in the voting process and in the marketplace, specifically within logrolling. Logrolling vote trades, like any activity within the marketplace, must be mutually beneficial (Buchanan and Tullock 1962[2]).
- Lincoln Lad - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:31 am:
Be interesting to see if Kagel reduces the sentence. I wouldn’t be optimistic, but think some reduction is warranted.
- Team Sleep - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:32 am:
There’s a marked difference between horse trading to make something happen (i.e. a capital bill or a major policy shift) and horse trading to benefit pretty much only yourself. Blago did only the latter.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:37 am:
Common Cause is as silly as ever. Wonder who used to run that organization
- Chicago Cynic - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:41 am:
“- Under Further Review - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:29 am:
Off topic, I wonder if it would have been better for the USA if Jarrett were in the Senate rather than serving as Obama’s advisor at the White House. Hard to say.”
What a great point. Yes, she would have been far less harmful had she been in the US Senate where she was just one of a 100.
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:42 am:
“Logrolling may not be illegal but it certainly is unethical.
Logrolling isn’t unethical either. The sole purpose of a governing body is to do deals. Logrolling is how much of this is accomplished. The General Assembly is not Wal-Mart where you get a receipt for each purchase.
Talk about confusing citizen democracies with market mentality!
In a state that has been mired with corruption and back room deals, we need to aspire to a political culture that breaks down voter disenfranchisement and special interest control.”
What has logrolling got to do with any of that? Would the writer of this nonsense blame the cost of auto insurance on how auto deals are made?
”For too long the people of Illinois have been victims of ineffective and inefficient government that has resulted in crumbling schools, poor healthcare, and high unemployment.”
Got nothing to do with logrolling. Once again, this group of people think government should be ran like a Burger King where you can have it your way and upside it as a combo - then hand in a coupon at the drive-up window and get a receipt.
This Common Cause group seems very to lack common sense, doesn’t it?
- Rod - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:42 am:
For better or worse this type of deal making has been part of the political process I the USA since our foundation. The decision was well reasoned.
- Not Rich - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:42 am:
wouldn’t you love to see Blago and Rauner in the same room discussing Illinois politics and negotiating with the Speaker?? LOL
- see the forest - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:46 am:
Not a fan of Blago’s, but I thought it was unfair that Blago got a much longer sentence than Ryan, who has the blood of the Willis children on his hands.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:51 am:
UFR, you’re willfully missing the point.
Blago was told he’d get nothing but a “thank you” for appointing Jarrett. There wasnt even logrolling. That’s what prompted his “bleeping golden” tantrum.
You watch a lot of cable news,I take it.
- A guy - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:54 am:
It’s very hard to distinguish these kinds of things.
It appears there’s a line, but you can only find it in court.
- Exasperated Teacher - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:00 am:
Although VanillaMan makes some great comparisons in how Common Cause has reached here, I think Team Sleep makes an important distinction between appointments vs. policy. Although appointments have to be made as part of politics, legislation and rules are to benefit the greater good. Unfortunately, it seems that many strive for appointments to satisfy their own ambitions. I know this is hard to prove, but don’t most agree that Blago was about Blago? And doesn’t it seem that our current leaders, Rauner and Madigan, seem to care more about their “tinkling contest” (as Rich put it yesterday) than the harm they are causing? Or in Madigan’s case, helped to cause via decades of fiscal mismanagement?
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:02 am:
===It’s very hard to distinguish these kinds of things.===
No, it really isn’t. If you trade a public action for another public action it is log-rolling. If you trade a public action for a private gain, like campaign contributions, a job for a spouse, home repairs, etc., then it’s corruption.
It’s not hard to make this distinction at all.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:02 am:
To the Post,
Here’s what I know;
Rod sealed his own fate by his words and his own actions.
Playing up to the masses isn’t a great way to get leniency from any judge, let alone a Federal jurist.
I’m a pragmatist. I believe in working out the best deals with the lowest chances of the deals following through.
I also understand why this case will make it more difficult to prosecute logrolling cases in the future.
- Percival - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:04 am:
In retrosect, a mistake by the U.S. attorneys to push that issue, as they had Blago cold on the other crimes. Now they have a court opinion endorsing log rolling for one’s own benefit in terms of office, which will only increase the practice. Uncertainty on the legality of the practice might (might) have created some restraint. I’m quite sure that few Illinois pols knew of Earl Warren and Dwight Eisenhower. But a prosecutor goes after all that’s there.
- Just Me - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:04 am:
Blagojevich wasn’t logrolling a public act in order to get something to benefit the public good, he was log rolling public acts to do something to help himself politically.
- Steve - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:05 am:
Blago got into politics to make money. It’s that simple. Every job was for sale. What was the most valuable thing he had to sell?? That last casino license. Horse trading ? Come one. Anyone who thinks that Barack Obama’s Senate seat was what motivated Blago is dreaming. You’ll notice the court didn’t wipe out the other counts on which Blago was convicted. Just a reminder.
- paddyrollingstone - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:05 am:
Vanilla Man said it better than I ever could. I always wonder why some people, Commom Cause for one here, think that government and politics should work according to different rules than the rest of the world.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:06 am:
“…he was log rolling public acts to do something to help himself financially.”
Fixed.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:06 am:
Is there a logrolling competition at the State Fair? if not, construct a giant pool and let’s get some legislators to enter!
it’s politics, and now we are clear, it’s legal.
- Team Sleep - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:09 am:
Amalia - great idea. RP Lumber could sponsor it.
- Soccermom - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:10 am:
I am horrified to learn that the Soccerfamily has an unethical relationship. Because it is not uncommon for me to say, “Okay, I will go to that stupid, stupid party tomorrow night if you promise to help me clean out the basement on Sunday.”
I guess that Common Cause is right — the only ethical way to get anything done is to have incredible insights into those things that are best and then act only in accordance with furthering those things.
- Steve - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:11 am:
Blago miscalculated the odds. It’s not like he hasn’t had experience with numbers.
http://abc7chicago.com/archive/6559104/
- @MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:13 am:
“Logrolling may not be illegal but it certainly is unethical.”
Begging the Question is an informal logical fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true.
In this case, the statement is built on an implied definition of “logrolling” as unethical deal-making. Because nothing is offered as proof that logrolling is necessarily unethical, the remainder of the statement is, as Vanilla Man notes, a series of naked claims and non sequiturs.
Nevertheless, I’m sure it was an effective fund-raising device.
– MrJM
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:13 am:
===he was log rolling public acts to do something to help himself politically===
Very common.
For instance: No budget until Turnaround Agenda passes.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:15 am:
47, I have a friend who did work for Rezmar at the Blago house. He was surprised one morning in his driveway by a couple of FBI agents who wanted to question him.
He took a lawyer with him a couple of days later, and got the impression they were trying to link up the actual value of the work at the house with what the Blagos claimed they paid Rezmar.
They also gave him the best advice for anyone confronted by the federales: “When we ask you a question, assume that we already know the truthful answer.”
- Writer's block - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:25 am:
Got to love “not only is not illegal”
Almost a triple negative.
- Sue - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:41 am:
Although few will be sympathetic to Blagos plight(I do feel sorry for his family’s)how can the Ct of Appeals know whether the jury might have found the Governor guilty on any other counts had they been told his “horse trading” was kosher? The senate job exchange for a cabinet post was a huge part of the case and got the lions share of media attention. If that was legal , the jury findings on other counts might have been very different- just saying
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:45 am:
===The senate job exchange for a cabinet post was a huge part of the case and got the lions share of media attention.===
Yes, but don’t forget that Rod was also entertaining the idea of naming Jesse Jackson Jr. to the Senate seat in exchange for $5 million in campaign cash. Under anyone’s definition, this would have been illegal, and Rod was actively conspiring to make it happen.
- Doofman - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:46 am:
I know this is a state blog and I don’t want to sidetrack the conversation with federal issues, but this highlights one of the reasons the ending of federal earmarks was a mistake. Those “pork projects” we’re the fat that greased the wheels of government to keep them moving, and I’d gladly “waste” 0.5-1% of any government budget (state or federal) in log-rolling deals if it means our government can actually function instead of reeling from one shutdown crisis to another.
- Roll With the Changes - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:55 am:
Rich, Rauner’s turnaround is not political, but rather public policy. Not an apt comparison.
To the person who said that the US Attorneys made a mistake with this, that’s really not the case. They overcharge routinely, with impunity. They bled even more attorney money out of Blago.
George Ryan also had charges related to common politics. Not sure if any of those stuck.
Good decision. Hopefully it will stop these types of charges, but I seriously doubt it. As I said, these prosecutors act with impunity and until someone loses their license, they won’t stop these tactics.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:57 am:
The US system doesn’t work without logrolling. There are simply too many veto points in a system with an independent executive and two houses not to mention a judicial branch. There is no way to get people to agree without bundling their interests often.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t too much logrolling or that it’s always good, but if you want to reduce it significantly, you need a different form of government.
- @MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:59 am:
“Rauner’s turnaround is not political, but rather public policy.”
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” — Marcello Truzzi (1935 – 2003)
– MrJM
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:59 am:
===Rauner’s turnaround is not political, but rather public policy===
Not at all?
C’mon.
- A guy - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:00 pm:
+++47th Ward - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:02 am:
===It’s very hard to distinguish these kinds of things.===
No, it really isn’t. ++++
The court spent a year and a half reviewing the appeal. Too bad you weren’t there. They could’ve sorted it out in 10 minutes.
- Anon - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:31 pm:
I can’t say that I’ve heard this term used much in my 20+ years in politics, but I find the idea that the concept is illegal or unethical a bit ridiculous. So would this apply to a legislator from downtown Chicago with little interest in a technical agriculture bill offering up a “yes” vote on that bill in exchange for a rural member’s “yes” vote on, say, a bill regarding restructuring of the toll highway authority? That’s how government gets things done. Negotiating. One could even argue political patronage isn’t wrong or unethical either, but I’m sure that would cause someone’s head to pop off in exasperating anger.
I wonder if all of this is the product of a disconnect between those who understand how government works and those that prosecute corruption one year and organized crime the next. Regardless, I hope Blago’s sentence isn’t reduced. But I agree with the court.
- Nothin's easy... - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 1:15 pm:
“One could even argue political patronage isn’t wrong or unethical either” - read Justice Scalia’s dissent in the Rutan v. Republican Party of Illinois case.
- Triple fat - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 1:34 pm:
What is striking to me is that the cabinet post was his first offer in the negotiation process. Rod would have settled for Ambassadorship or embassy post at the consulate of Bosia and Herzegovina. A modest request I believe and totally legit since embassies are filled with doner class individuals without any regard to their qualifications. Can you imagine what the noise the right wing press would have made had the Administration negotiated with him? Legal yes but quite a headache politically.
- nobody - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 1:36 pm:
Wish I had a nickel for every “log rolled” in Illinois. I think I would be retired by now.
- nona - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 2:02 pm:
“Logrolling may not be illegal but it certainly is unethical.”
Under this standard, every governor and president is unethical because all engage in deal-making. Should Big Jim be indicted for all the logrolling he did?
- West Sider - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 2:25 pm:
—-Rod would have settled for Ambassadorship or embassy post at the consulate of Bosia and Herzegovina.—
Oh for a Way Back Machine! Much as I loathe Rod, he would have been moderately qualified, and the administration would have long since kicked him to the curb. As a plus, Mark Kirk would still be just a back bench Congressman.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 2:27 pm:
=== They also gave him the best advice for anyone confronted by the federales: “When we ask you a question, assume that we already know the truthful answer.” ===
Best advice ever. Right Martha Stewart?
- Triple fat - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:04 pm:
Du page Dan- Touché
- countyline - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:08 pm:
It’s both sad and amusing to watch the political class trying to justify their sleazy backroom deals. If want to prove that it’s ethical, then you should have to abide by the same open meetings act that every other elected body in Illinois has to.
- Mister M - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:14 pm:
Logrolling Smogrolling
Blago’s trial (the second one) was on a reduced number of offences to keep things simpler and more direct, I presume. So there is all that other stuff. And then there are all the things that he wasn’t charged with but that most long-time state workers encountered every day. He deserves every day of his sentence.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:26 pm:
countyline-like the General Assembly? Most on here prefer that posters know at least something about state government, so the dialogue can be informative
- Under Further Review - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 8:09 pm:
“You watch a lot of cable news, I take it.”
Wrong again, Word.
- Soccermom - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:10 pm:
Apart from everything else — how did Rod not know that ambassadors don’t get paid very much? The reason we put wealthy people in those posts is because they’re expected to pay out of pocket for all that fancy entertaining they do. Ambassador pay is substantially lower than the “inadequate” salary he was making as Governor.
- countyline - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:24 pm:
So, anonymous, when the dems caucus, are those sessions recorded?