Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar » *** LIVE VIDEO *** Chicago pension case
SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax      Advertise Here      About     Exclusive Subscriber Content     Updated Posts    Contact Rich Miller
CapitolFax.com
To subscribe to Capitol Fax, click here.
*** LIVE VIDEO *** Chicago pension case

Tuesday, Nov 17, 2015 - Posted by Rich Miller

* From our pals at BlueRoomStream.com

Good morning: www.blueroomstream.com will offer LIVE web coverage today in high definition of the following Judicial event from Springfield: 09:00 am - Illinois Supreme Court Oral Arguments (Jones v. City of Chicago) Springfield

***NOTE*** The Chicago Pension Case Will Be the Third Case of Four Heard Today By The Supreme Court

Click here for the live video stream.

       

9 Comments
  1. - Archiesmom - Tuesday, Nov 17, 15 @ 11:59 am:

    The city appears to be going down in flames.


  2. - Keyrock - Tuesday, Nov 17, 15 @ 12:34 pm:

    Steve Patton did a remarkably good job. He at least sounded like he believed his argument. (Carolyn Shapiro had more trouble with that in the State’s argument last time.)


  3. - anon - Tuesday, Nov 17, 15 @ 1:27 pm:

    City is going down. Affirm!


  4. - CrazyHorse - Tuesday, Nov 17, 15 @ 2:31 pm:

    The city has absolutely no chance of winning this argument. Their position boils down to a person who stiffs paying a plumber and saying I promised I’d pay but I never said my checkbook had to have the funds to cover the payment. Nice try.


  5. - Keyrock - Tuesday, Nov 17, 15 @ 2:57 pm:

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/1108963/il-supreme-court-questioning-city-pension-deal-signals-bad-news-emanuel


  6. - Andy S. - Tuesday, Nov 17, 15 @ 4:12 pm:

    I watched the hearing and read the Sun-Times article via the link above. It is clear from these that the key question is whether the City (and the State) are legally required to pay benefits to the members if/when the pension funds run dry. The city claims that according to some statute that predates the 1970 Constitution, they are not, so because a city funding guarantee is included in the pension legislation, this funding guarantee more than makes up for the benefit cuts in said legislation. Thus, on balance, the legislation does not diminish benefits.

    However, given that the Pension Protection Clause in the 1970 Constitution logically would have to supersede the older statute to which the city refers, I just don’t buy the argument that the city is not on the hook to pay under current law - and neither, apparently, do many of the Justices, based on the questions they asked. This is simply the old Sidley Austin argument that only the funds themselves, and not city and state taxpayers, are on the hook to pay benefits. If that were really true, then local and state governments could simply refuse to provide funding to the pension systems, and the pension protection clause would not be worth the paper it is printed on. Surely this is not what the framers of the Illinois Constitution intended.


  7. - Jack Retired Water - Tuesday, Nov 17, 15 @ 5:20 pm:

    Well, this one seems to be cut and dried. Not so sure about the healthcare issue though.


  8. - RNUG - Tuesday, Nov 17, 15 @ 11:08 pm:

    To cover from some more recent decisions what - Andy S. - wrote about, it is clear the courts expect the benefits to be paid; they just haven’t yet said WHO specifically has to pay.

    McNamee (1996) said ” …that article XIII, section 5 creates an enforceable contractual relationship that protects only the pensioner’s right to receive benefits.”

    In Sklodowski (1998), “While the Court recognized that article XIII, section 5 of the Illinois Constitution created an enforceable contractual right to benefits, such a right could not be divined to enforce the level of state contributions …”

    So the courts have consistently said retirees have a right to receive the earned benefits. What the courts have not yet clearly said is exactly HOW the benefits get paid IF the funds go broke. However, in various arguments about funding the pension systems, the courts have noted that the State has multiple alternatives, including switching to a “pay as you go” process … which most people interpret to mean just pay the pension benefits (checks) monthly out of GRF.

    If it were to get to that point, I would expect the courts to order the Treasurer and Comptroller to cut the pension checks and leave the messy details of where the cash comes from to back-fill the hole to the legislature or other responsible government entity for pensions not under SERS, JRS, GARS, SURS or TRS. That’s pretty much what has been done in legislatively forcing funding for IMRF. So various non-IMRF government entities with independent pension funds (Chicago for example) appear to be on the hook to pay, one way or the other, for their pension fund shortfalls out of their revenue sources like sales and property taxes.


  9. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 18, 15 @ 2:16 pm:

    Appellate Court in recent County treasurer stipend case held that it did not violate separation of powers for Court to order payment out of General fund when legislature had failed to appropriate enough money to the designated fund to cover the payment required by the Constitution. Further precedent for City must pay even if it lets the pension checkbook run out.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


* Reader comments closed for the holidays
* And the winners are…
* SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Update to previous editions
* Isabel’s afternoon roundup
* Report: Far-right Illinois billionaires may have skirted immigration rules
* Question of the day: Golden Horseshoe Awards (Updated)
* Energy Storage Brings Cheaper Electricity, Greater Reliability
* Open thread
* Isabel’s morning briefing
* SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Today's edition of Capitol Fax (use all CAPS in password)
* Live coverage
* Selected press releases (Live updates)
* Yesterday's stories

Support CapitolFax.com
Visit our advertisers...

...............

...............

...............

...............

...............

...............

...............


Loading


Main Menu
Home
Illinois
YouTube
Pundit rankings
Obama
Subscriber Content
Durbin
Burris
Blagojevich Trial
Advertising
Updated Posts
Polls

Archives
December 2024
November 2024
October 2024
September 2024
August 2024
July 2024
June 2024
May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004

Blog*Spot Archives
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005

Syndication

RSS Feed 2.0
Comments RSS 2.0




Hosted by MCS SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax Advertise Here Mobile Version Contact Rich Miller