A union overreach?
Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 - Posted by Rich Miller
* I could be wrong (again), but I think we may be seeing the same sort of wildly exuberant union overreach in Chicago that we saw in Wisconsin a while back. You’ll recall that the unions managed to recall some Wisconsin state legislators, then failed to recall the governor.
CTU’s success at winning its 2012 strike has it thumping its collective chest during contract negotiations this year. The union held a big rally in Grant Park last night…
Chicago Teachers Union leaders exhorted thousands of members gathered for a rally in Grant Park on Monday to confront the city with the threat of a strike in the face of contract talks that have dragged on for more than a year.
“Now it’s time for us to act. We’ve been here before,” CTU President Karen Lewis, who led a seven-day strike in 2012, told the crowd at Petrillo Music Shell. “No teacher wants to go on strike. We prefer to be in front of our students. But we know that when we must, we will withhold our labor.”
While the union has yet to announce a strike authorization vote, a required step before a walkout can occur, organizers urged members to give them additional leverage.
“We want to remind people in this crowd about sometimes what it takes,” CTU Vice President Jesse Sharkey said in his speech to the red-clad crowd. “You will have a chance very soon to answer the question of how much resolve you have. And when you do, the answer will be ‘Yes.’”
And…
In front of a screaming crowd of thousands who braved a frigid night to show their strength, and joined by legislators, pastors and other labor leaders, Lewis said, “It is time for us to act.”
“We must show the city, the mayor’s handpicked Board of Education and even our students and parents that Chicago’s public school educators will stand up for what is just and fair, and together we will fight to protect our professions and our classrooms,” Lewis said.
Despite its phony “practice strike vote” earlier this month, I don’t doubt that the union can convince at least 75 percent of its members to hit the bricks.
* What I’m not so confident of is whether the public will support the teachers like it did in 2012.
Chicagoans are being hit with record property tax hikes, with more likely on the way. The CTU has refused to support a bill sponsored by Senate President John Cullerton that would help alleviate the disaster…
“I don’t know the logic of the teachers’ union being opposed to the bill,” Cullerton said. “I think it’s maybe because, you know, the Board of Ed is for it and, therefore they have to be against it. That’s all I can figure, you know? The mayor’s for it, they’re against it because they had a fight with him in the past.”
Remember the 2012 teachers’ strike? That’s the fight Cullerton is referring to. And there’s been talk of a second teachers strike under Emanuel over the district’s current finances.
“Of course this would avoid a strike,” Cullerton said. “There wouldn’t be any need for them to lose their pension pick-up in their contract negotiations. There wouldn’t be any layoffs. I don’t know what else they’re striking about.”
“Three-eighteen is not about stopping a strike. Three-eighteen is about destroying our school system,” said Stacy Davis Gates, the legislative coordinator for the Chicago Teachers Union.
* And the union is resisting all give-backs on pay and benefits…
Negotiations are stuck because the Board of Education is broke and is asking teachers to pay more for health insurance and pensions. That would mean lower take-home pay.
“$653 million dollars of cuts coming out of the pay, coming out of the pockets of people who make the schools go,” said CTU VP Jesse Sharkey.
Chicagoans may be looking for a bit more equity these days. We’ll know soon enough, but the CTU can easily be painted as obstructionists and the real problem now.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 10:41 am:
CTU timed it perfect last time.
Like I say to AFSCME, CTU, you strike, you lose.
Poor timing, along with the very good points Rich makes in taxes in the City…
This strike could turn out to be “Rahm’s Revenge”, and CTU will have stepped out just a lil too far.
Last night, that’s about as far as they can go before voters say, “Enough”?
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 10:42 am:
We’ll see. But the powers-that-be seriously underestimated public support for teachers last go-round. That was a beating.
And what kind of credibility does Emanuel have with the public given the state of school finances and the hand-picked crook he put in charge there?
- walker - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 10:43 am:
==wildly exuberant union overreach==
Knew before reading further it had to be CTU.
When will they numb the public to anything they say? I’m pro-union, and have come to discount CTU as a responsible member of that category.
Must still play well with teachers.
- Chicago taxpayer - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 10:43 am:
The Big Question: with so much at stake for their members–jobs, pensions–why in the world aren’t they joining CPS in Springfield instead of attacking a broke school district?
CPS released data last week showing its students get only 15% of state education funding despite having 20 percent of the statewide students. You would think that would get the CTU off their duffs and downstate, instead of rallying about striking in Grant Park.
- Carhartt Representative - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 10:55 am:
CTU has been negotiating with CPS since November 13 of 2014. They thought they had an agreement this past summer and then Claypool came in and took it off the table. CPS is talking about making changes that for a 6th year teacher like my wife would cut her lifetime earnings by about $350,000.
CPS wants CTU to go with them to Springfield and ask for a pension holiday for CPS. This will only make matters worse.
There’s a reason 97% of the teachers supported a strike and it’s not that 97% of the teachers are lazy. Teachers don’t want a strike, but they don’t see an alternative.
- mokenavince - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 10:58 am:
A prolonged teachers strike would be the straw that broke the camels back. It may back fire and end up looking like Rham’s the hero .
- Chicago taxpayer - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 10:59 am:
==There’s a reason 97% of the teachers supported a strike=
See above–Rich Miller’s link to the story about it being a phony strike vote. Never happened.
And CPS made clear last week they’re not after a pension holiday; they’re after equal funding to the rest of the state. Why in the world wouldn’t CTU be for that!??
- Original Rambler - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:03 am:
I’m in agreement with Rich. This is not the time for any public employee union - teachers, administrators, public safety - to be posturing in this manner.
- Carhartt Representative - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:04 am:
==See above–Rich Miller’s link to the story about it being a phony strike vote. Never happened.
And CPS made clear last week they’re not after a pension holiday; they’re after equal funding to the rest of the state. Why in the world wouldn’t CTU be for that!??==
In 2012, CPS ran a very similar practice strike vote with 4 questions and the numbers came out very close to the number on the actual strike vote. The same thing will happen this time.
The legislation CPS is supporting includes a two year pension holiday and also ends the block grants for Chicago with nothing to replace them. I think CTU would be very amenable if that was ironed out.
- Liberty - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:08 am:
This is a reaction to the extreme governor pure and simple.
- Chris - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:12 am:
“The Big Question: with so much at stake for their members–jobs, pensions–why in the world aren’t they joining CPS in Springfield instead of attacking a broke school district?”
CTU’s position (via Karen Lewis) is that the district isn’t actually out of money, and is manufacturing the crisis. The public position is that mean old Rahm is just trying to screw the teachers. They can’t maintain that position and support CPS asking the state for more.
- hisgirlfriday - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:13 am:
The 2012 strike effort was aided by its timing in connection with Obama’s re-election effort and extra pressure on Rahm to achieve labor peace so as not to bring negative headlines for Obama. No such pressure on Rahm is still there. Tread carefully, CTU.
- Don Ames - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:16 am:
CTU members only pay 2% of their salary towards their pension. Since 1983 Chicago teachers have seen a 500 plus percent increase in their salaries, the highest union wage growth in Illinois and yet when you dare to suggest that everyone help out a little, you get the CTU Pavlovian response of threatening a strike.
- Very Fed Up - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:23 am:
Doubt there will be a lot of support when the public realizes the members do not have to pay into social security and only contribute 2% of their salary to pensions. People can see their rising property taxes and connect the dots.
- cdog - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:24 am:
I am pro-union in most cases but find teachers mostly intolerable.
They are the most entitled bunch one can come across these days. And, the ones I know well are the whiniest bunch of adults I know. #thereisaidit
As we listen to their lists of pities, remember that they don’t work a 2080 hr work year, like most people, but receive salaries like they do. Assuming they do stay in the building for 40hrs/wk during school, they might work 1500 hours a year. And please don’t tell me they work after hours. Who the heck doesn’t?
In the district that my real estate taxes support, nobody even answers the phone after 3:30pm, during the 8-9 months school is in session.
Chicago should be codifying a 12 month school year and get these kids on track. Quit living in a bubble CTU.
- Arizona Bob - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:25 am:
It’s well past time that Madigan and Cullerton brought Illinois into the 21st century by amending the Education Labor Relations Act to prohibit, or at least limit, teacher strikes to protect the children and taxpayers. This is done in 41 other RATIONAL states that actually care more about their kids than the educational bureaucracy.
Reasonable limitations would include:
1) prohibiting strikes against school districts that have debt exceeding certain limits and that do not have current revenues to increase teacher spending,
2) Prohibiting teacher strikes in districts where over 65% of operating expenses are spent on teacher salaries, stipends and benefits, and
3) Prohibiting strikes against districts for which average teacher salaries and benefits are greater than 10% above state average.
While incarceration for striking is probably politically infeasible (just kidding folks), having teacher certification revoked for striking certainly is, as is the case in Texas.
If there is a teacher strike because Madigan and Cullerton fail to protect the students and taxpayers in Chicago by amending the act, they need to be held accountable for selling out the children for union support.
Oh,and for those Chicago folks who choose to work against the public interest and SUPPORT the union in a strike, a fund should be set up by which they may contribute so that they can have their money go directly to teacher salaries.
My guess is that they’ll give very little because they want SOMEBODY ELSE to pay the bills for their kids…
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:31 am:
We’re discussing union overreach on this post, Bob. Not some regurgitated talking points.
Real trollish.
Try again.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:33 am:
My advice to my union siblings is to keep your head down and work quietly.
Rauner wants a fight to justify his ridiculous unproven anti-union ideas.
Rauner is the issue. Keep him the issue. He is a loser on this.
- Anonymouth - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:35 am:
Ironically, a CTU strike could strenthen Rauner’s position with the public.
- nixit71 - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:41 am:
The pension pick-up is valued at 3.75% of salary. Add to that the typical 2-4% yearly increases bargained for in recent CTU contracts. Add to that automatic step increases of 3-5%. That’s 8-10% of additional income in every CTU member’s pocket compounded every year over a long period. Not bad.
Put all this together, and you have a compensation increases that - in non-inflationary and recessionary times - have served CTU members quite well. The question remains, how much is enough? And who will pay the bill? And when taxes are indeed raised, why do YOU get that money?
- Ghost - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:42 am:
to me this is a horrible idea. they need to appear reasnable if they want a good defense of attempts to effectively wliminate them. this is not a good defense, falls into the hands of anti union rhetoric of greed.
sigh
- Steve - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:44 am:
Don’t count Karen Lewis out. She knows Chicago is a union town. Lewis also knows there isn’t a rampant anti-union movement with any political power in Chicago or the state legislature. Illinois is a special place where taxpayers come last most of the time.
- anon - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:48 am:
If UAW strikes Ford the workers loose their pay for the time on strike. When teachers strike they add the days on the end of the school year and the teachers get all their pay. Might as well strike!
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:49 am:
What is your support for the contention that public employees should accept cuts in pay and benefits for “equity.” What do you mean by “equity?” Do you have any proof (non-anecdotal) that private sector employees in Chicago have suffered massive wage cuts over the past few years? If not, you need to drop the “shared sacrifice” sham. Just because someone is employed in the public sector does not mean that they have any equitable or other obligation to suffer the brunt of decisions by public officials. The only real “equity” is a general public tax.
- blue dog dem - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:56 am:
Dont think for a minute that the ‘booze brothers’ havent been thinking about this when they were cracking open a bottle of MD2020.
- Teve DeMotte - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 11:57 am:
“Ubi Est Mea” in Latin means “Where’s mine.” Utimately for CTU it is all about more money for teachers which means more money for their substantial political coffers. They also very adept at using CPS students as political shields to advance their cause. Case in point, last night they said they would strike to protect the kids. Yet, CPS had to effectively pull out $600 million from the classroom to pay teacher pensions last year. CTU is as much responsible (which they will never admit) for fiscal crisis as anyone. CTU manages their employees pension fund and no one holds them accountable for the poor performance of their pension fund.
- DuPage - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:03 pm:
@Very Fed Up 11:23 =Doubt there will be a lot of support when the public realizes the members do not have to pay into social security=
The CTU members also do not get any social security from working at CPS.
CPS also does not pay into social security. This saves CPS about 6.5%. CPS uses the money saved from NOT paying into social security to instead pay into the pension system.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:05 pm:
Bob:
There are 863 school districts in Illinois. Since 2010 there have been 16 strikes. It seems to me that the school districts and the teachers unions are doing a fairly good job at limiting strikes. You just don’t happen to like the outcomes.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:08 pm:
Why do you think it is the personal obligation of a CPS teacher to pay for the education of our City’s children by diverting their pension benefit to general operating costs? Before you call the teachers greedy, show me empirical evidence that private sector employees are suffering wage/benefit cuts for financing the public good.
- Union Man - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:09 pm:
Asking Teachers to give the County $653 Million is outrageously crass and selfish.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:11 pm:
AB, I thought you were on the trail of all those terrorist acts and crimes committed by refugees?
Done with all your research already?
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:17 pm:
Can you imagine the howling if it was proposed that Social Security payments for Chicago residents be increased by several percentage points for the purpose of paying operating costs for CPS? Tell me again about “shared sacrifice” and “equity.”
- Not it - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:19 pm:
Completely agree with the post. Chicago and Cook County raised taxes to balance a budget. The public was with the teachers last time, twice is too much, at least in 2015.
I believe the union should have taken the one-year extension when they had the chance and fought next year, but they got greedy and wanted a bunch of stuff in return for just extending the current contact one year.
- Jockey - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:20 pm:
Not a Raunerbot, but, How is it fair to vilify the Guv about childcare funding, went Ms. Lewis is leading the charge to shutdown schools in freezing January? These schools are a refuge for many poorer students, and for some, a place to get a hot meal.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:28 pm:
“- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:11 pm:
AB, I thought you were on the trail of all those terrorist acts and crimes committed by refugees?
Done with all your research already?”
Your post is inappropriate for this discussion. I support the public school teachers and am also against bringing the refugees to this country.
- Me too - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:32 pm:
Anon, that’s not how social security works. I really thought the comment threads were for intelligent discussion. Well, my response is that no I cannot imagine it because an increase in social security payments would have to be authorized at the federal level for all covered employees, and the additional money would go into the social security trust fund. Listen, the schools saved money by having a qualified plan. They could provide a better benefit at a lower cost. The problem is those payments weren’t mandatory like SS, so whenever the city felt like it they contributed least amounts. Taxes would have been raised years ago if teachers got SS. The city couldn’t welch on those payments. The pensions aren’t unsustainable anymore than the outstanding bond debt is. Both are repayments of borrowed money, and until the State defaults on bonds, they won’t be defaulting on pensions. If taxes have to be raised dramatically, it will not be because of pensions rather the irresponsible borrowing of the politicians we elected. Ironically we punish pols for increasing taxes, so they are inclined to make up the shortfall some other way. In the end it is really the fault of the people.
- Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:35 pm:
Can you imagine the howling if Chicago residents who contribute 6.2 % of their wages (along with the employers 6.2%) contribution for an average retirement benefit of $1,300 a month realized that Chicago teachers ( who are some of the highest paid in the nation ) contributed only 2% of their pay for a pension that totals $71,000 a year for a recent retiree?
That pension is higher than the average HOUSEHOLD income for an average Chicago family whose taxes just went up to find the pensions.
- cdog - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:37 pm:
Be a little creative with a name/handle;
Anonymous is losing any credibility it may have had on a good day.
- burbanite - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:45 pm:
CTU gives unions a bad name. Their behavior at a time when decisions are being made as a result of fiscal realities is a major turn off.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:45 pm:
The absurdity of the Social Security example was an attempt to get other commenters here to parse why they think teachers should bear financial responsibility for the pension crisis and not the taxpayers as a whole. Turning the tables as a rhetorical device to say, hey what if YOUR ox was getting gored? I am serious though about the question of this notion that it is “equitable” to expect public employees to sacrifice themselves, think of the children, blah blah blah, when the end result is that the commenter is hoping to evade his/her share of responsibility as expressed in the general tax.
- A guy - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:48 pm:
Karen Lewis never had more than one pitch. Her control used to be less spotty. That fastball has lost a lot of mph, and the control is more spotty than ever. She doesn’t hear the crowd.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 12:50 pm:
Reduction to absurdity is a time-honored argumentative technique. In this instance, teasing out the self-interest of those who want teachers to “share the sacrifice,” be “equitable,” “think of the children,” blah blah blah, when the net result is to evade their own sharing of responsibility through a general tax. No one has provided any answer for why wage/benefit cuts for teachers is an “equitable” solution to pension underfunding and other legislative bad acts instead of a self-serving shifting of blame and responsibility.
- Downstate Hack - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 1:04 pm:
The CTU has to realize they are in a poor position. Relatively high pay and benefits and very poor performance in their schools.
- Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 1:08 pm:
In 2012 the required pension payment was $204 million.
This year it is $697 million.
It is not fair for the teachers to not “share this sacrifice” by increasing their contribution from their current 2% of salary.
- From the 'Dale to HP - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 1:11 pm:
It’s not about pay, it’s about jobs and charters. So CTU will be viewed fairly sympathetically still.
And what Chicago taxpayer is eager to support CPS which just handed out at least $20m in corrupt contracts? Which changes CEOs every other year? And has a mess on its hands with charters like UNO, which CPS will be dragged into, that could break any day sending thousands of kids back to neighborhood schools. And the City doesn’t have a plan to fix the mess that is CPS, they’re plan is to beg for more money.
CTU isn’t THE problem and many voters in Chicago get this. It’s not innocent either of course. But CPS cannot continue to open charters left, right, and center without the money to pay for or the students to go to those charters. CTU is going to argue against this and present a plan to fix the system (which will probably turn voters off, but that’s another issue).
- From the 'Dale to HP - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 1:14 pm:
hisgirlfriday: what’s in March? Who is running for the Dem nomination and just happens to be from here and have major connections to Rahm?
- Arizona Bob - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 1:40 pm:
@ Vanilla
=We’re discussing union overreach on this post, Bob. Not some regurgitated talking points.=
I guess if you don’t understand that teacher strikes, illegal in 41 more enlightened states that care more about their kids than supporting union greed, is “overreach”, You’ve got the “union label” so far up your posterior that it’s affecting your thinking.
- Proud - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 1:55 pm:
WE hear a whole lot about the pension crisis exists because of skipping payments. Why this is very true could this be because the payments could not be afforded/sustained as the pension is too rich? That is why almost all businesses- and CPS and Govt also are subject to rules of revenue vs expenditures, have frozen/discontinued the practice.
- nixit71 - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 1:55 pm:
==No one has provided any answer for why wage/benefit cuts for teachers is an “equitable” solution to pension underfunding and other legislative bad acts instead of a self-serving shifting of blame and responsibility.==
It has been noted that, from 1990-1993, the Chicago Teachers Union agreed to have the Legislature transfer pension funds to its regular operating budget to pay for teacher raises and bonuses.
Since we’re on the topic of equity, has CTU paid back the 25 years worth of lost 8% compounded interest on whatever amount CPS would have paid into CTPF yet was redirected to wages?
CTU chose payment today (1990) over retirement benefits later. Now they are asking for payment again. That does not sound equitable.
- From the 'Dale to HP - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 1:58 pm:
Proud: pension fund was 100% funded in 2001. CPS/Daley decided not to fund the pension system. Fast forward to now, and it’s 52% funded. Not a benefit issue.
- Proud - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 2:06 pm:
FDTHP
I get that. Issue is it affordable now? Why do you think Unions fight all 403B for new hires. Because most can draw a significant pension starting in there 50’s- way before they are too feeble to keep working. I think the push back from the general public is why should govt workers get something that I don’t get that I have to pay for.
- Carhartt Representative - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 2:07 pm:
CPS was actually skipping required payments prior to 2001. Beginning in 1995, CPS started using the return on the pension fund’s investments in the booming stockyard to cut the amount they paid in.
- Carhartt Representative - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 2:10 pm:
==FDTHP
I get that. Issue is it affordable now? Why do you think Unions fight all 403B for new hires. Because most can draw a significant pension starting in there 50’s- way before they are too feeble to keep working. I think the push back from the general public is why should govt workers get something that I don’t get that I have to pay for.==
Without Social Security, having all your retirement savings in a 403B or a 401K is insane. A poorly timed market correction and you have half of what you had budgeted for your golden years. Meanwhile, the city couldn’t afford to make social security payments.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 2:30 pm:
Arizona Bob
Yeah - the problem is “greedy unions”.
Keep on trolling!
- Ahoy! - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 2:38 pm:
– the CTU can easily be painted as obstructionists and the real problem now.–
Yes, and they have also never dealt with the kind of money that will be used on the other side.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 2:41 pm:
==You’ve got the “union label” so far up your posterior that it’s affecting your thinking.==
Well if that’s not the pot calling the kettle black I don’t know what is. Sheesh. I think you’ve got an anti-union label wedged pretty far up there.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 2:45 pm:
When you’ve got people saying . . .
==It is not fair==
and
== why should govt workers get something that I don’t get that I have==
. . . you’ve lost the argument.
Figure out a way to make this as least painful as possible and declare victory. If you strike you’re shooting yourselves in the foot.
- Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 3:09 pm:
How many anti-CTU commenters here have a child in CPS? How many have family teaching or instructing in CPS?
On this very website back in 2012, the results of a public opinion survey were posted that showed that people with such connections to CPS overwhelmingly supported CTU’s strike while the people with the least connections were those who were anti-strike.
It is not simply about money, it is about the dismissive and condescending attitude CPS has towards students, parents, and teachers. Parents and students are the victims of CPS mismanagement and it is why the overwhelming majority supported the teachers in 2012 and why I believe they will do so again if CTU goes on strike in 2016. It’s not like CPS has gotten any better the last few years. If anything, it is far worse.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 3:13 pm:
===On this very website back in 2012, the results of a public opinion survey were posted===
All I’m saying is, don’t fight the last war.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 3:17 pm:
===All I’m saying is, don’t fight the last war.===
On point.
For me, the last strike was framed and positioned to succeed within a narrative the public could sympathize with at that time.
A strike now? Yikes. More risky, for the same rewards(?)
Lots of pushing without looking at the differences.
- Anderson Villy - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 3:21 pm:
==Reduction to absurdity is a time-honored argumentative technique.==
Yes, except here you appear to have crossed the line into a straw man:
==…when the net result is to evade their own sharing of responsibility through a general tax.==
Property taxes have been raised.
- nixit71 - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 3:25 pm:
@Precinct Captain - Excellent point. CTU teachers work under inept management. It’s not their fault the “company” can’t get their act together. For that, I can truly sympathize. I’ve been there.
I think most parents with kids in school, by nature, will side with the teachers. That’s because we and our children interact with them. We know them on a human level. The bureaucrats? Not so much. That’s why I chuckle when the media plays up student support of teachers during strikes. Um, whom do you expect a 12 year old to support…the person they work with every day or the automaton that mostly resembles their parents (ie “the man”)?!
But at the end of the day, someone has to pay the bill. Most CPS parents will side with teachers. But most CPS parents have been shielded from the true cost of their child’s education for a long time. CPS gets $500M more than their fair share in state funds. Plus they get $900M in federal funds on top of that. So the CPS parent pays a mere fraction of what their downstate parental equals have paid.
So the CPS can stand with the teachers all they want. But they need to dig in deep into their own pockets to show where their true allegiances stand.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 4:31 pm:
Exactly. It is not equitable to take back money from teachers (or other public sector employees) because the tax rates now are no longer shielding the true cost of services including educating children. The teachers and public employees are also paying that higher tax bill and do not deserve a double whammy of being penalized again in their wages/benefits.
- Enviro - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 4:54 pm:
I agree with Precinct Captain @ 3:09 pm: “It is not simply about money, it is about the dismissive and condescending attitude CPS has towards students, parents, and teachers.” The Chicago parents and the teachers will support the CTU teachers, and not the CPS school board. It is the CPS school board that has been overreaching with pension holidays, charter schools, and contract demands.
- Enviro - Tuesday, Nov 24, 15 @ 4:56 pm:
@ 4:54 pm, I meant to say the Chicago parents and students will support the CTU teachers.