* Matt Dietrich at Reboot writes about the governor’s promise of “long-term gain” in exchange for short-term pain as it relates to MAP Grants…
The prospect of “long-term gain” is meaningless to a college student who’ll miss the coming semester because he/she had a promised state grant snatched away. The very concept of long-term gain is a cruel hoax if the end result is a state with universities irreparably damaged by an extended state funding drought and thousands of young people who have given up hope on attending college.
The same applies if this is allowed to happen in the interest of protecting the standard of living of the middle class. Many MAP recipients need college aid because they aspire to get into the middle class.
Rauner on Jan. 27 will deliver his second State of the State Address. If the MAP situation stays as it is today, an awful lot of young adults in Illinois will be a week or so into what would have been their spring semester as Rauner speaks in Springfield.
For them and the thousands of other Illinoisans affected directly and immediately by the Illinois budget crisis, this is no abstract exercise in political theory.
Well said.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:05 pm:
> The prospect of “long-term gain” is meaningless to a college student who’ll miss the coming semester because he/she had a promised state grant snatched away
Too true, and anyone not literally made ill by this thought has a heart made out of stone.
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:08 pm:
I can’t wait to hear what he has to say on the 27th!
- Honeybear - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:10 pm:
THAT
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:11 pm:
The minute all students are either sent home from state universities, students are denied continuation of their studies, or the towns of Carbondale, Macomb, DeKalb, B-N,… Champaign see kids driving out of town and their money with them…
The minute that happens… is a minute too late.
Remember, this is for a $510 million dollar plan Bruce Rauner can’t live without.
$510 million.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:12 pm:
Cutting programs and funding delays will hurt young people as Mr Dietrich explains.
Raising taxes will hurt those same young people as they work their way through school and establish themselves after graduation.
Borrowing from our children and forcing them to pay the bill is no better.
Sounds like compromise from both Rauner and Madigan is the order of the day.
- Frenchie Mendoza - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:12 pm:
—-
I can’t wait to hear what he has to say on the 27th!
—
I know exactly what he’s going to say on the 27th. He’s gonna smile and chuckle and say the GA didn’t send him a balanced budget and he’s sick about it, that there’s a moral imperative to fund social services, that education and especially college students are the backbone of Illinois, and that AFSCME bargained in bad faith.
And that his Turnaround Agenda will save billions.
That’s his SOS speech in a nutshell.
- Saluki - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:13 pm:
Bruce Rauner has become a political Kamikaze pilot. Willing to crash the state of Illinois in order to sink the democratic party. it is very disturbing.
- Formerly Known As... - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:13 pm:
With more than $2 Bill in the bank, if Champaign sends kids home their leaders will have many unpleasant questions to answer.
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:17 pm:
Frenchie - Exactly correct - my feeble attempt at Snark. Sorry.
- Frenchie Mendoza - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:24 pm:
Whoops — bad comment. Meant to post on another story here.
Sorry, Rich. Please delete.
- Disgruntled Former College Students - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:27 pm:
—-The prospect of “long-term gain” is meaningless to a college student who’ll miss the coming semester because he/she had a promised state grant snatched away—-
Considering the MAP grants don’t help a majority of college students, because they do not receive them. Students who have to pay the full tuition and take out several thousands in loans because their parents makes an insignificant amount more than another students parents should be in favor of this move by Rauner. Look at the post Rich had about how bloated University spending on administrative things that do nothing to increase the quality of education.
Although, as Larry Dietz at ISU said at the beginning of this budget impasses, and I’m paraphrasing, “Its not about educating the kids, its about employing administrators.” And I think that’s the problem…
- Annonin' - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:30 pm:
Think of the high school junior sittin’ around thinkin’ of college. Border state schools already offerin’ in state tuition. Now the bonehead hostage scheme. Be lookin’ for enrollment to be a little down in the fall.
Wonder if Mr. ReBoot Jr has a kiddo at a state school or using MAP to help with a private.
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:32 pm:
Disgruntled - you are trying to shift the focus and the direction of this conversation. Administrative overhead is a legitimate topic to discuss on another forum, but is irrelevant to this topic today.
- Anon221 - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:36 pm:
On the 27th, I would urge schools, starting with 8-12 grades and all post-secondary, to take time outing their day and have assembly areas available for instructors and students to view the SOS. Then discuss. Rauner wanted can more civics in the schools. Now is definitely the time for young Illinoisans to hear what their future holds. Rauner needs to look them in the eyes as he holds their futures in his hands and explain why they can’t have it.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:40 pm:
===Think of the high school junior sittin’ around thinkin’ of college. Border state schools already offerin’ in state tuition.===
Yep.
Iowa & Missouri are the biggest winners.
Let’s also not forget, what parent wants to hear on a tour…
“Funding might be at a premium for your major, so some classes offered now might not be offered in the Fall… ”
Some parents might be hearin’ just that. Maybe. Not a great way to sell a state university here.
- Chicago Cynic - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:41 pm:
“- Saluki - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:13 pm:
Bruce Rauner has become a political Kamikaze pilot. Willing to crash the state of Illinois in order to sink the democratic party. it is very disturbing.”
That is the best summation of the governor’s strategy I’ve ever seen. Btw, this was a brilliant column by Matt and should lay to rest once and for all the idea that Reboot Illinois is just a tool of Rauner.
- Fusion - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:42 pm:
“Long-term gain.” Please. Just raise taxes already. Someone who makes $50k annually would only have to pay $26 more per paycheck if rates went from 3.75 to 5%. A whole $26. Not exactly life and death.
Let’s give these college kids some peace of mind. Set tax rates at the appropriate levels and start governing like a normal person. This is ludicrous.
- wordslinger - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:47 pm:
The passive acceptance of the hostage strategy by many as “politics as usual” has been very shocking to me.
It’s not politics as usual, not even close, and I’m not easily shocked. We’re not talking pork-barrel projects here, we’re talking Illinois citizens.
To those who accept and promote the “leveraging” of the state budget, the willful infliction of damage on real people in pursuit of a political agenda, let me ask you this:
If Pat Quinn had refused to sign a budget unless same-sex marriage was passed, would you have considered that a legitimate exercise of power?
If Pat Quinn had refused to sign a budget unless the minimum wage was raised to $15 an hour, would that have been a legitimate exercise of power?
If Pat Quinn had refused to sign a budget unless a millionaire surtax was passed, would that have been a legitimate exercise of power?
I have supported all those things.
But if Quinn had used a hostage strategy to try and get them passed, that tactic would be just as illegitimate as what Rauner is doing today, and I’d call him out on it, just as I did with his Banana Republic stunt of vetoing legislators pay.
Good Lord, Rauner’s the governor, not the head of the Outfit.
Using the power of his office to tune up citizens to feed his reactionary zealotry is outrageous and illegitimate.
For crying out loud, did everyone read the “rationales” he released yesterday? It was like a term paper done on the school bus.
And yet, it still demonstrated, by the governor’s own “numbers,” that the ROI on his Turnaround Agenda is a major net loss for the state.
What are we arguing about anymore?
- Earnest - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:48 pm:
I’d like to see a financial analysis of the long-term gain versus the long-term pain. The short-term pain is destructive enough.
- @MisterJayEm - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:50 pm:
“Rauner’s the governor, not the head of the Outfit.”
I respect you, Wordslinger, but on this one I think we’re gonna have to agree to disagree…
– MrJM
- former southerner - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:50 pm:
Pretty soon everyone in the state will have an immediate family member or close acquaintance negatively impacted by his eminence the ideologue. And some of these people will actually care while others are so hardened they would characterize Mr. Potter of It’s a Wonderful Life as being far too soft.
Short-term pain isn’t some magical medicine that always leads to long-term gain. The result is often short-term pain followed by even greater long-term pain and cost-a concept too difficult to understand for those who only seek simple answers to complex questions.
- Boss Tweed - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:51 pm:
“Students who have to pay the full tuition and take out several thousands in loans because their parents makes an insignificant amount more than another students parents should be in favor of this move by Rauner.”
No, they shouldn’t. I’m old enough to remember when the Republican Party said, “you don’t make the poor rich by making the rich poor.”
- UIC Guy - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:51 pm:
If you want long-term gains, invest in education (including post-secondary, but certainly not only that).
- Chicagoman - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:53 pm:
Love the work at Reboot. Tough but very balanced.
It’s a shame they didn’t take over the Illinois Radio Network instead of the Illinois Policy Institute. Reboot would’ve been truly great stewards. IPI will just be shills for the administration.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:54 pm:
IBHE is harping on and on about increasing enrollment and graduation so that 60% of the population in Illinois has a degree yet they have nothing to say about this?
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:54 pm:
Willy - to your point, my youngest niece will be completing her BS in less than 3 years at ISU and will have to go out of state to get her Masters ( mandatory in her field ).
Illinois has totally missed the mark when it comes to adequately funding post-secondary education with our available resources.
Granted the Chicago and Northwestern will continue to excel, but I fear for the UIUC, my Alma Mater.
- illinoised - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:55 pm:
OW mentioned one of the towns in which I live. I had a conversation with a local businessman who gleefully opined that Rauner was shaking up things. That individual appeared clueless that his business will go down the drain when students leave and never return, followed by faculty and staff. I am amazed at his shortsightedness.
- illinoised - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:56 pm:
P.S. I have already planned my exit.
- CD Sorensen - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 1:56 pm:
Thank you Boss Tweed. I pity a student who would think that its to their advantage, either now or in the future, that other students couldn’t attend their university not based on their academic excellence but instead on the rug of promised payment being pulled out from under them by politicians they’ve likely been too young to vote for.
- Former Hoosier - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:01 pm:
My daughter is a junior in high school so we are in the process of looking at colleges. For obvious reasons, she will not be applying to any state schools in Illinois. I’m assuming many other in state and out of state parents feel the same way.
Because of cuts to higher education throughout the country, part of my due diligence is to look at what is going on financially with the schools my daughter is interested in. Here is sample of what a google search of Illinois pulls up: “Illinois public colleges reach 100 days without state funding” and “Illinois public universities are in a financial crisis”. Information about the financial state of our public colleges and universities will cause many to look elsewhere. I’m afraid we will have a real brain drain in our state as families look to out of state schools for their children.
- Jeeves the Cat - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:02 pm:
The Governor’s office or, in other terms, “Those Relatively Recent College Fraternity Members Who Already Have THEIR Degrees Who are Now Paid a Tidy Sum to Produce Words for Him so He Doesn’t Have to Speak Them Himself in Public” already clearly framed this debate earlier this week. While the Senate was wasting everyone’s time talking to actual people about the actual consequences of losing MAP grants, Mr. Rauner’s men deftly turned it into a conversation about bloated staffs, out of control budgets, and years of gouging students and parents to support them (see above). Students would be better off just not going to school at all than to continue to be abused by the evils of higher education in Illinois’ institutions.
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:04 pm:
Wordslinger - Using the power of his office to tune up citizens to feed his reactionary zealotry is outrageous and illegitimate.
I could not agree more - and even many of his former “true believers” are beginning to tire of his games, except, of course those in the GA who need or are afraid of what he will do with his $239 million slush fund.
- X-prof - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:04 pm:
In my estimation, Rauner has surpassed Scott Walker in inflicting damage on his state, but he seriously lags Michigan’s Governor Snyder who appears to be culpable in decisions that led to the lead poisoning of the entire city of Flint. Don’t give up Bruce, you have momentum and 3 years to catch up. I don’t make light of any of this, but all three share similar philosophies and are playing from the same book.
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:08 pm:
Sorry - my typo - should have been $29 not $239 million. And I have not even had my first glass of wine today!
- kimocat - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:10 pm:
Very well said wordslinger. And you make it extremely clear that the ideologue who takes this approach is more interested in achieving his unpopular goals than making the state a better place to live. The fact that he seems totally oblivious to the impacts on Illinois citizens shows an almost incomprehensible level of hubris and a pathological lack of empathy on his part. The people of Illinois are going to feel the negative effects of Bruce Rauner for a long time. Too bad I didn’t win the Powerball this week Gov. — I would have made your war chest look paltry.
- wordslinger - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:10 pm:
–I’d like to see a financial analysis of the long-term gain versus the long-term pain.–
Rich posted the governor’s promised analytics yesterday.
Go back to yesterday’s blog, and you can read the governor’s rationale for his strategy and draw your own conclusions as to its merits and the projected costs/benefits.
I encourage everyone in the state to do so. In fact, I think it’s vital that they do so.
- GraduatedCollegeStudent - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:11 pm:
===Students who have to pay the full tuition and take out several thousands in loans because their parents makes an insignificant amount more than another students parents should be in favor of this move by Rauner. ===
No they shouldn’t, because your educational experience is enhanced by having students with different backgrounds who can bring their experiences to class discussions.
- Because I said so... - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:12 pm:
Bruce doesn’t have a social agenda.
- sideline watcher - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:12 pm:
Amen Wordslinger. Spot. On.
- Disgruntled Former College Student - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:17 pm:
—No they shouldn’t, because your educational experience is enhanced by having students with different backgrounds who can bring their experiences to class discussions.—
And having a diverse population is exactly reform needs to be done so everyone can afford to attend. Right now, working class families can’t afford to attend university, because they are stuck in the middle of people poor and not being affluent enough. I think everyone’s experience and education at college if they were able to afford school.
- Illinoisvoter - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:18 pm:
Earlier another very well informed poster linked
to the institutional totals for MAP grants and
while there has been much discussion on the effects of the loss for the students and for state higher education what about the private
colleges and universities? Some of the totals
were staggering for organizations like DePaul Augustana or Loyola. Why should they be put at
risk for a turn around agenda?
- NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:18 pm:
I think it would be terrific if when, Governor Rauner blasts Speaker Madigan and the politicians, unions and everybody else he controls in his State of the State address,every Democrat just gets up and walks out to prove a point. Leaving only Speaker Madigan and President Cullerton sitting behind him smiling as he starts to stammer and stumble because he is in shock that something like that could happen to him.
- Disgruntled Former College Student - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:19 pm:
I think everyone’s experience and education at college (would improve) if they were able to afford school.
- Handle Bar Mustache - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:21 pm:
Good on Dietrich for writing this.
Note to the IBHE: maybe now’s a good time to say something? Maybe?
IBHE MEMBERS
Karnes, Allan
Hays, Jane
Carter, Jocelyn
Coffey, Max
Ruiz, Robert
Langer, Paul
Anderson, Lindsay
Richardson-Lowry, Mary
Rivera, Santos
Jacobs, Alice Marie
Bergman, Jay
Wiseman, Christine
- olddog - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:21 pm:
What Jeeves the Cat said.
It’s ironic, and it feeds on itself — much of the administrative bloat, high-rolling and spending on sports and luxury dorms has taken place as state support for the public universities’ mission has dwindled. Which makes it easier for ideologues to cut back further on support for instruction.
The upshot: Kids who needed MAP and other government assistance are priced out of the market, and whether our elites intended it or not, we are creating a hereditary aristocracy in America.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:36 pm:
- illini -, the sad part of your connect is that today, the arrow to help all state schools, including UIUC is pointing down as Rauner appears to see no value in state universities, it’s students… and…
- illinoised -,
… even the towns.
You can’t explain to those who want to be blinded.
I fear the towns that host these universities might not realize the real impact outside the numbers they see in doreadsheets that still look dire without making them real.
Rauner supporters think none of the shakin’ will hurt them. That’s even scarier then being blindsided by not realizing the damage at all.
- cdog - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:37 pm:
Rauner will play the VICTIM CARD when he tells us the State of the State in twelve days.
“Springfield has been so mean to me.” sob, sob…
Just another ploy, slight of hand exercise in his CONfidence game he is playing.
I doubt he will speak any truth about the woeful 1.4% ROI ($500m) on his TurnAround in to Disaster Agenda.
- 13th - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:38 pm:
to bad the process to recall an Illinois governor is set up to prevent it from ever happening, especially with his $$$
- cdog - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:43 pm:
–I’d like to see a financial analysis of the long-term gain versus the long-term pain.–
Link to yesterday’s blog article about the ROI of the Turnaround Agenda.
As Word said, important to read this.
https://capitolfax.com/2016/01/14/todays-number-14-percent/
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:45 pm:
With all due respect to those of us talking about MAP grants and “bloated” administrations - the problems faced are much greater.
Unless the “wise leaders of our state” realize that our prosperous future lies with the students in our Community Colleges and 4 years colleges, we as a State are doomed on the road to the bottom. We, as a state, are losing out on retaining our “best and brightest” and this pains me.
We have tremendous facilities and dedicated faculty ( some of whom we are likely to be losing ) because Illinois refuses to realize the tremendous resources we actually have.
Yet the short sighted, and ideologically driven, leaders of our State are willing to sacrifice our future for their own aggrandizement.
- Filmmaker Professor - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 2:51 pm:
Couldn’t agree with you more illinoised. I’ve been sounding this alarm for years. All the Republican businessman of Champaign are all smiles about Rauner. Just wait till the termination notices start going out to UIUC employees. Then we’ll see how much they smile.
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:00 pm:
Willy - thanks, but you are absolutely correct!!!
Glad I got my degrees in the early 70’s when a degree from UIUC still meant something.
Guess I should have gone to Dartmouth!!!
- Anon - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:09 pm:
Enrollment is already taking a hit; I work part-time at a community college and of the four classes that I was set to teach this semester three were canceled. For four classes, the total enrollment was 23 (each class could have accommodated forty students). Many students did not get financial aid last semester, so they are bailing out now.
- CapnCrunch - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:13 pm:
The minute …”…Champaign see(s) kids driving out of town and their money with them…”
Can’t speak for the other cities you cited but I predict the next time Champaign sees students driving out of town will be on Spring break!
- Judgment Day - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:20 pm:
Since virtually everyone posting here does not appear to have any possible compromise to offer except for the Governor to surrender, which does not look likely.
Here’s an idea which I’m sure everyone will absolutely hate.
Offer the MAP grants to all students who have already declared majors in the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) course areas.
Everybody else, not eligible.
Perfect solution? - No, it’s a compromise. But it’s workable, and otherwise, it’s back to trench warfare.
Realize, it’s increasingly looking like we could be on or very close to the tipping edge of another recession.
Economics are terribly unfeeling. This proposal would cut a fair number of students out of their MAP grants. But it would at least move the discussion forward.
I fully anticipate the screams of outrage, pain, and anguish are going to deafening. But what’s your compromise? You don’t have one.
Just a thought…..
- Boss Tweed - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:23 pm:
“Right now, working class families can’t afford to attend university, because they are stuck in the middle of people poor and not being affluent enough.”
That’s terrible. It won’t be made any better by keeping more kids out of school.
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:29 pm:
Judgement Day - Sorry, but neither you are anyone else can “pick and chose” who will get a MAP grant.
This is not a compromise and is not workable.
And even suggesting this to move the discussion forward is totally disingenuous.
- CapnCrunch - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:40 pm:
Because UI tuition exceeds the max MAP grant, the UI supplements MAP grants from University resources. Parents who borrow money to pay their kid’s tuition to UI probably don’t know that some of that borrowed money goes to pay some other kid’s tuition. It is good to help the less fortunate but borrowing to do so is kind of asking them to share the misery.
- Judgment Day - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:52 pm:
“but neither you are anyone else can “pick and chose” who will get a MAP grant.
This is not a compromise and is not workable.
And even suggesting this to move the discussion forward is totally disingenuous.”
———–
No, this is an attempt to start a conversation.
But when you say this is “totally disingenuous”, you are in effect trying to end the discussion. Case closed.
So, both sides can go back to throwing bricks at each other. Enjoy.
But just remember that when we’re further down the road and still haven’t gotten anywhere, that somebody tried…..
- illini - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 3:52 pm:
CapnCrunch - I am not certain about the veracity of your statement, and I know the tuition is in excess of any MAP grant, I am not certain what other resources you refer to. May be getting a bit dense on a Friday afternoon, but am afraid I am missing your point.
- ZC - Friday, Jan 15, 16 @ 4:06 pm:
It reminds me of a famous quote by FDR’s relief administrator Harry Hopkins, who was once asked whether it wouldn’t be better to get the government out, because the economy could sort itself out in the long run. Hopkins is supposed to have snapped, “People don’t eat in the long run.”