Question of the day
Wednesday, Apr 6, 2016 - Posted by Rich Miller
* From RNUG’s comment today on what the Democrats should do with the budget this year…
The way you get around that is pass a complete budget, put the school funding in a separate bill, and send all the bills EXCEPT the [K-12] school funding one to Rauner. Once he signs all the other budget bills or let’s them become law without his signature, THEN you send the school funding bill to him.
That is the one major point of leverage the GA has. Çullerton just demonstrated how it works with his now lifted hold on the Chicago Police Pension fund bill; think that was SB777.
More on that development here.
* But his idea inspired a strong warning from Anon221…
The one thing, though, that Rauner will seize on if the K-12 funding is held up until he addresses the rest of the budget (in your scenario), is that now he has the power to point at the Dems for the reason why the schools can’t open in the fall because now THEY aren’t submitting a plan. I have a feeling he’d love that scenario, and would just sit back and grin all the way to November.
* The Question: RNUG or Anon221? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.
panel management
- Abe the Babe - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 10:52 am:
While I mostly agree with RNUG’s insight here, it muddy to water further as to who is causing the stalemate.
Keep sending appropriations to the second floor and you will keep reminding voters that the governor is standing in the way. Withhold some bills and you play in the same mud as Rauner.
- Rufus - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 10:55 am:
Yes, the people that are governed occasionally get in the way of political diplomacy.
- Curious Georgina - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 10:55 am:
I have to agree with Anon221. I think Rauner would love to be able to blame the Democrats in the General Assembly for schools not opening in the fall. If they try RNUG’s approach, I’m afraid it will backfire. Badly.
- Ambrose Chase - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 10:55 am:
I vote Anon221. Put all the appropriations in one bill. Let Rauner make the cuts.
- Huh? - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 10:57 am:
I would like to propose a twist and a merger of the 2 proposals.
Present the education funding bill after all the other bills have been sent to 1.4% with a poison pill that the only way education funding bill becomes law is if all the others become law.
If 1.4% blames the GA for the schools not opening in the fall, the GA is the necessary CYA.
- Ole' Nelson - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 10:59 am:
I agree with RNUG that it could be an effective way to end the impasse, but feel like it would come at a heavy cost to Democrats. I feel like they have the high ground (if there is such a thing in Illinois politics) currently, but would lower themselves to the governor’s level if they use this tactic.
- bwana63 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:00 am:
With a rational actor as gov, the right move would be to hold K-12 spending. Rauner is irrational, so don’t give him another reason to dig deeper.
- SAP - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:00 am:
I am with RNUG, although I would avoid Anon221’s hazard with a minor tweak. I’d pass k-12 first, but make it contingent on the enactment of the rest of the budget.
- Hi Maze - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:00 am:
Wrong ANON, if the bills have passed Senate and House, then there is evidence that they HAVE a plan, they just havent sent it to Gov yet.
- Daniel Plainview - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:01 am:
Anon. Withholding the K-12 funding strengthens Rauner’s hand, it would be a disaster.
- Wensicia - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:02 am:
Anon221.
This would not only play to Rauner’s PR game, it would let the ILGOP completely off the hook going into elections. They’ll sit back and enjoy the fallout while doing nothing as usual.
- Bronco Bahma - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:02 am:
I agree with RNUG because the legislature WILL sent the K-12 bill to the guv. That has to be part of the plan going in.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:02 am:
I agree in many ways with RNUG but Anon221 is correct in what Rauner would do and that would just make matters worse.
- Langhorne - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:04 am:
I like RNUGs approach, bec it has the GA PASSING A BUDGET. To actually be a winner, some repubs would have to be onboard. And it would have to include revenue.
I am waiting for Madigans spring surprise–maybe millionaire income tax CA. If it is on the ballot w redistricting, both pass w 80%
- G'Kar - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:06 am:
I didn’t vote, because, honestly, I don’t know which is best! Both options scare me!
- East Central Illinois - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:07 am:
This is all assuming that schools will NOT open in the fall if no K-12 funding is approved. What if schools open in the fall and then the school districts’ money runs out about December??? To me, not coming back from Christmas break would send a bigger message to Springfield, whether that message is delivered to the Dems or GOP or Rauner. Most school districts will receive property tax monies in July, August, September even if state monies are not forthcoming. But if/when that property tax money runs out about mid-November and there still is NO K-12 budget - - - then watch out - - school districts will be at severe crisis mode.
- CrazyHorse - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:08 am:
It would be absolutely brilliant if they sent the K-12 bill with Pro-Union poison pills to give Rauner a taste of his own medicine. They won’t of course because let’s be honest, they really aren’t interested in strengthening unions as much as they are fearful of alienating their voter base.
- RNUG - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:09 am:
I think I’ll abstain from this vote.
I do like the suggestion of Huh? of imbeding a contigency poison pill in every funding bill. Rauner would just remove it with an AV, but it would show the D’s are serious about crafting a complete budget.
- Nick Name - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:10 am:
RNUG. When pressed, Rauner tends to cave, and he’s already shown (by signing the K-12 ed budget last year) that he doesn’t want to take on the teachers’ unions (or angry parents).
- Facts are Stubborn Things - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:12 am:
The dems are not going to pass a balanced budget with a tax increase on their own, and be blamed for it, and they are not going to pass a balanced budget without a tax increase, and be blamed for all the cuts. I vote for no more funding of anything (other then what is required by law) until a budget gets passed. The dems need to call on the gov. to negotiate with them on a balanced budget with cuts and revenue now. If Ranuer does not want to do that then he owns the whole mess.
- cdog - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:13 am:
variations.
Cullerton and Madigan should not even call a bill on either, the larger budget or the school funding, UNLESS THERE ARE PROMISES OF GOP VOTES!
Throw in there a requirement of GOP bill to reinstate the 5%, with the 1.25% dedicated to the bill backlog created by Rauner’s less than inspired intransigence!
- One to the Dome - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:14 am:
The Gov will blame Dems on holding up the childern as hostages. Also, both points give GOP members a pass on supporting ANY budget bills. Rank and File GOP have not proven to break from the Gov yet…and I dont see that happening anytime soon. Its not likely the Dems will pass budgets knowing the Gov will veto them before a general election.
- lake county democrat - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:14 am:
RNUG — Free the “hostages,” end the damage to the state, and have faith that the voters aren’t so stoooooopid that you can’t make a case to them as to why you had to raise taxes. With power comes responsibility - use some of it for the public good rather than saving your sorry hides.
- illinifan - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:18 am:
RNUG as the legislator will have voted on the bill so they did their job. Once the governor does his half of his job, then they can move the passed bill to him, and he could complete the other half. I figure at this time the governor is too overwhelmed and can only complete his job in pieces.
- Facts are Stubborn Things - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:19 am:
seems to me the top .1% (Billionaire Rauner) is holding the bottom 1% (those most vulnerable to not having a budget) hostage in order to hurt the middle 50% (bust the unions). The dems need to call him on in and demand a budget summit to “let my people go”.
- Corporate Thug - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:20 am:
I dunno. Tend to agree with RNUG, but I just think that might be trying to get a little too cute. Might even backfire.
Just keep passing budgets and let him keep vetoing them or not. They’ve put multiple budget bills in front of him and he’s only signed one. So be it. If the Dems are trying to fund things and he doesn’t want to, fine. Just keep giving him opportunities. Put the ball in his court. You don’t want to be the one with the ball still in your hands when the clock hits 0:00. Especially on K-12 Ed. Remember the R’s took one on the chin last year on this. Don’t think they want to do it again this year.
- Honeybear - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:20 am:
Real Politik is the game these days. The “strong will do as they will and the weak will suffer what they must”. Anon221 is right in my opinion. Rauner would use this to clobber the Dems. RNUG is they way it should be played hard. But alas we are in the days of Ragnarok, the final battle.
- Facts are Stubborn Things - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:22 am:
What Rauner does not grasp, or does not care, is that he (Rauner) must win a state wide race in three year, and MJM and the dems must only win in their respective districs.
- Mr. Smith - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:23 am:
I don’t like either, but I would choose Anon’s idea, I think. Though honestly, I think that the GA should pass the budget NUMBERS as proposed in the budget for 17, including redistricting as a carrot and a contingency poison pill stick, and sent it to Da Gov. Make him veto his own proposed figures.
- Bill White - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:25 am:
== I do like the suggestion of Huh? of imbeding a contigency poison pill in every funding bill. Rauner would just remove it with an AV, but it would show the D’s are serious about crafting a complete budget. ==
Article IV, Section 9 is interesting reading.
It appears that the line item veto power applies only to appropriations. See the first sentence of (d):
== The Governor may reduce or veto any item of
appropriations in a bill presented to him. ==
I’m not sure the Governor can AV out poison pills.
- Bill White - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:26 am:
Article IV, Section 9, paragraph (d) of the Illinois Constitution
http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con4.htm
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:27 am:
Neither.
Does anyone think the Democrats will vote to raise taxes so that they can approve a balanced budget to send to Governor Rauner? Seriously?
So whether they pass one spending bill that includes K-12, or they follow RNUG’s path, Rauner will say they aren’t balanced and he’ll be correct.
The flaw in either plan is thinking Democrats will blink first and unilaterally vote for higher taxes. They won’t.
- DuPage - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:31 am:
Rauner recently said about the no-budget problem, “it’s not my fault”.
So I think Rauner will attack the Democrats no matter what they do. I think they should bundle k-12 with the higher education budget and call it the “education funding bill”, including the money owed to map grants, universities, and community colleges from this year.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:33 am:
I also did not vote, and was very surprised to be part of the QoD. I’ve been mulling over RNUG’s response to me on the other thread when this came up. I don’t have a real solution, but I agree with RNUG on Huh’s suggestion. Whatever happens, Rauner will find some way to try and get HIS way, regardless of the pain. Because, you know, we need to feel the pain to grow this state (s). And when the People of Illinois and the Legislators finally realize that they need to out maneuver Rauner, I just hope we have something to salvage.
- Earnest - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:35 am:
I voted with Soon, but only if House Republicans that the Democrats can trust guarantee they’ll vote to override if there’s a veto of any kind by Rauner. Gotta deal with people you can trust to stand by their word. Rauner hasn’t built that yet.
- RNUG - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:36 am:
- Bill White -
Interesting
- Ducky LaMoore - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:37 am:
Don’t send him anything but what is in his own budget with the tax increase necessary to balance it. See what he does then. Will he veto his own unbalanced budget to avoid a tax hike???
- PublicServant - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:40 am:
I like Huh?’s idea modifying RNUG’s initial concept, but do you think they could override the AV of the contingency? I mean even Franks could vote yes for that, since it’s not a vote for a tax increase but just for tying the Gov’s hands to force him to sit down and negotiate on the whole budget.
- Ahoy! - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:41 am:
Voted for Annon because under RNUG’s proposal the Democrats own schools not opening, this sounds like a dream scenario for Rauner.
Also RNUG’s proposal does not discuss the out of balance budget the democrats would have to pass without a tax hike. Can nobody do math anymore?
- downstate commissioner - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:42 am:
If they pass the bill, and don’t send it on, it will be on the Ds, not Rauner, to the public,and count on him using it that way. They have to send it on, but…
The idea of passing a separate bill, without his poison pills, is a good idea. If the Rs don’t vote for it, it will be on them. If he attempts to ammendatorily (sic) veto it, there may be, by that time, enough nervous R votes to override the veto.
- cover - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:46 am:
If the GA were to insert a poison pill into an appropriation bill, the Governor’s amendatory veto to remove it would put the entire bill on hold (the same happens on regular bills), it’s not the same as an item veto/item reduction veto. The GA would have the opportunity to override, but it’s unlike there would be 71 votes in the House to do so, and thus the appropriation bill would simply die.
- Hedley Lamarr - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:46 am:
WWAZBobD?
- Anon - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:46 am:
I like RNUG, but his plan is pretty heavily dependent on Rauner caring about the outcome. Given the lack of appropriations for other essential services, it’s pretty clear to me that he doesn’t care about the outcome.
Don’t play chicken with a guy that doesn’t care about dying, but especially don’t play chicken with a guy that isn’t actually in the car.
- cover - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:46 am:
=unlikely=
- Chicago_Downstater - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 11:51 am:
I like RNUG’s plan, but I have to vote with Anon221.
Rauner’s PR team is too savvy to let him cave. If the Democrats don’t give up on RNUG’s strategy, then schools could close right before the general election and Rauner gets to claim that Dems are holding kids hostage. If the Dems pull back and pass the K-12 bill after Rauner doesn’t cave to avoid school closures, then they make Rauner and therefore the GOP appear stronger at the worst possible time.
RNUG’s plan is satisfying in a tit-for-tat way, but the risk is too great for an ill-timed blowback. Maybe if it wasn’t an election year, then RNUG’s plan could work.
- Norseman - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:07 pm:
Bill, You’re describing extra authority limited to appropriations bills. That doesn’t prevent him from an AV of the effective date since there is no exclusion on the bills he can AV. See the AV provision in the constitution:
(e) The Governor may return a bill together with specific recommendations for change to the house in which it originated. The bill shall be considered in the same manner as a vetoed bill but the specific recommendations may be accepted by a record vote of a majority of the members elected to each house. Such bill shall be presented again to the Governor and if he certifies that such acceptance conforms to his specific recommendations, the bill shall become law. If he does not so certify, he shall return it as a vetoed bill to the house in which it originated.
- No Use For A Name - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:10 pm:
Holding the funding and opening of K-12 schools hostage would not be the best idea come November. The backlash against Democrats at the ballot box would be legendary.
- JB13 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:12 pm:
I find utterly fascinating the machinations underway to try to position the situation in such a way to persuade voters that the same bunch that gave the state a 67 percent income tax hike a few years back suddenly have no desire to raise taxes, but Rauner is forcing them into it.
- OFFM - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:15 pm:
Voted with Anon221 b/c when engaged in a war, it’s bad policy to paint a target on your forehead, and that’s pretty much what RNUG’s suggestion does. People are in no mood for game-playing by anyone.
- winners and losers - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:16 pm:
ENOUGH GAMES. No one is winning, and no one will win these games. Many people are now dramatically affected, and threatening to close (or not fund) K-12 is a movement in the wrong direction.
- im aok - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:19 pm:
I voted RNUG - how much worse can it get - Rauner is already blaming the Dem’s for everything
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:20 pm:
Anon221.
RNUGs logic is sound, I understand his game plan, but I won’t get in the gutter.
As angry and sick of this willful misanthropy as I am, I paid too much attention in Sunday school. This too, shall pass.
I won’t support threatening Illinois children to trump the extortionist tactics of the elected governor of Illinois.
I won’t become a gangster to beat a gangster. I won’t harm children to stop reactionary misanthropes from harming others.
If the people of Illinois don’t make it known that they soundly reject these despicable, extortionist tactics, then so be it. You deserve what you get.
If the Illinois Republican Party of 2016, through their elected officials, remains unanimous in this course of action, then so be it. Remember, and act accordingly.
For the rest of us, we should take a lesson and have the guts of the kids from Niles, who obviously read their Thoreau, Gandhi and MLK.
Splendid behavior.
- TweenRushvilleMonmouth&Colchester - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:25 pm:
I like RNUG’s idea, but had to vote Anon221 (not that he offered a better approach). Instead of feeling the heat, this Guv would club the Dems over the head with that gimmick.
Still, I salute RNUG for his creativity. Maybe there’s some combination of political truth, gimmickry and Third Branch engagement that will Fund Our State. Good people are being hurt as the Gov dithers…
- cdog - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:32 pm:
Why execute any bills where a veto is expected and part of the plan? There is no super majority until January 2017.
All approp/funding/budget bills must have GOP votes placed on them. No Rauner bricks. Madigan and Cullerton should not call any approp/education/etc bills that are only going to have Dem votes. Put this out in the grapevine.
This destructive and strange un-American partisanship, brought to you buy an extreme .1%er and the uncompromising obstructionsts, needs to end.
The Illinois GOP knows the time has come that they have to be reasonable about budget issues. Rauner, Radagno, and Durkin have said that this week.
Stick it to ‘em.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:33 pm:
Anon 221.
RNUG’s logic is sound, but I won’t get in the gutter with the governor and the GOP. I won’t harm children to keep them from harming others. I won’t become a gangster to beat a gangster.
As tempting as that is, it’s just wrong and illegitimate. I paid too much attention in Sunday school.
If the people of Illinois don’t soundly reject this extortion masquerading as politics, then so be it. You deserve what you get.
If the Illinois GOP of 2016, through their elected officials, remains unanimous in supporting the elected governor’s willful misanthropy, then so be it. Remember.
For the rest of us, we should all take a lesson from the kids from Niles. Their actions yesterday showed they obviously read their Thoreau, Gandhi and MLK.
Splendid behaviour. Those kids are the goods.
- Gary from Chicagoland - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 12:43 pm:
In every previous case RNUG was right on, but perhaps not this as it will be on the voters mind come November. Delaying it could cause voters to point their fingers at the GA for a delay, whereas a Gov veto for a lack of budget squarely places the fault on his shoulders. A new twist, how about passing a budget that is broken up into smaller bills that each come with a payment component that raises the State income tax to pay for each bill separately?
- Annonn'' - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:01 pm:
Picked RNUG cause they are closer to the real answer which cannot be relieved because it wil cause BIgBrain heads to go KABOOOOOOM
- Anon - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:02 pm:
Anon221 because this is less about passing a budget than it is about the politics to both sides.
- Anon - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:08 pm:
All the Dems have to do is pass an actual balanced budget, and they have the upper hand. They’ve shown they don’t want to have to deal with the revenue side of it, though - you know; the actual hard part. So, here we are.
- RNUG - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:11 pm:
-Anon221-
Apparently my forte is logic, not political manipulation. LOL
One way or the other, it’s going to be interesting to see what moves Madigan makes the rest of this year.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:13 pm:
RNUG- It’s brain cramps all the way around:)
- blue dog dem - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:17 pm:
Neither. I personally don’t care if we ever get a budget, higher ed funding, social service funding.or even K-12 funding,unless we get a fair taxing policy. If madigan were a true democrat he would insist on a progressive income tax and if rauner were a true republican he would insist on the ag industry paying its fair share. But they are both cowards. Until then, old blue dog says.”shut it all down and let’s all suffer together!” We are this far into this mess so we might as well fix some things.
- RIJ - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:19 pm:
RNUG. This state is in budgetary disaster - it looks like we won’t have one at all for the current year. More pressure needs to be applied. This cannot continue.
- Just a thought - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:28 pm:
Why not have 1 omnibus appropriations bill?
- DuPage - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:34 pm:
@blue dog dem 1:17 ==…progressive income tax==
The Illinois constitution prohibits a progressive income tax.
- PublicServant - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:43 pm:
Can he AV RNUG’s non-dollar contingency clause? Looks like the constitution specifically intends AV to be used to modify dollar-related clauses?
- Original Rambler - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 1:46 pm:
RNUG-anon221. Why don’t you two get a room!?!
- blue dog dem - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 2:14 pm:
Dupage: change it.
- Harvest76 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 3:12 pm:
Anon221. I’m sure this has been said, but, governor’s own. I see no reason to take that away from him if he wants it as badly as it seems.
- anon - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 3:18 pm:
Rauner plans to blame the dems anyway. He does and he will. The situation continues and I stand with RNUG…what is Anon221’s idea, other than bad idea/no.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 3:34 pm:
anon @ 3:18 pm- Read the other thread.
- peon - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 7:54 pm:
I vote for RNUG’s solution. Insisting on no piecemeal budgeting is an eminently defensible position.
For good measure (for the future) add a constitutional amendment to the ballot that says that if a budget it not enacted by 1 July in any year the previous year’s budget is automatically extended by 12 months, with all discretionary expenditures increased by the inflation rate, and the budget brought into balance automatically by a pro-rated across-the-board cut and an equal matching increase in tax revenue (1:1).
- Jimmy H - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 8:13 pm:
I voted for Anon221. MJM would never stoop to Rauner’s level. That’s what I like about MJM. There might be something in what RNUG is describing, before bills are voted on and it would involve Republican members.
- Jimmy H - Wednesday, Apr 6, 16 @ 8:24 pm:
The announcement of no K-12 appropriations until a new funding formula is enacted; the Ds just gave the R members a whole lot of cover for pushing green. There are no vetoes if a bill passes with veto-proof majority.
- RNUG - Thursday, Apr 7, 16 @ 7:29 am:
Now that we’ve all had some fun with the QOTD, I’ll note that the quote Rich copied above was slightly out of context when you read the original message thread. The quote was answering some comments and providing a possible method to keep Rauner from just repeating his FY16 actions and only signing the school funding bill. If you look at my earlier 9:53am comment, you’ll see I was advocating doing nothing and letting Rauner own the whole mess.