47 Comments - Robert the Bruce - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:18 am: I don’t understand the advantage of adding a mileage tax rather than upping the gas tax. I always thought the reasons for the gas tax were understandable environmental concerns, while it is large trucks, rather than passenger vehicles, that cause damage to highways. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:20 am: Somewhere… under the Dome, …Slip and Sue is nervously looking through her email contacts for the next person to email to see if they’ll “hire her”. I’d recommend another PI lawsuit, but Illinois is way late paying all its bills, so towns hosting Evelyn, don’t say I didn’t warn you. Waivers. Lots of waivers. - PublicServant - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:25 am: The road damage caused by a prius traveling 10000 miles over illinois roads is much less than the damage done by an F-350. Straight miles driven lets the gas guzzlers off the hook, while penalizing green tech. Factor in a discount for smaller vehicles, and add a premium for heavier models and I’d consider it. I’m worried about the big brother implicatons too. - Just Sayin' - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:27 am: For the mileage tax, if needed, why not just impose it on electric or hybrid cars? Also, i’ts easy to impose gas tax on gas purchased in this state. What about miles traveled outside of the state (IL wouldn’t get those gas taxes for gas purchased on a trip outside of IL). - NoGifts - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:27 am: “while ensuring that no district would receive less state money than it did in the 2015 – 16 school year” Isn’t 2015-2016 this state fiscal year? Have they received all the funding they expected this year? - NoGifts - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:31 am: Even regular cars are getting much better mileage, and the market penetration of electric and hybrid right now is small. It makes sense to switch from a road use tax based on gas consumption to a road use tax based on actual road use, now that we have ways to figure out road use. It is possible to use GPS to figure out mileage traveled in Illinois, but I don’t think anyone wants to go down that road. It is much more intrusive, complicated and expensive. The gas tax was implemented to raise revenue to maintain roads, not because of environmental concerns. - Six Degrees of Separation - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:35 am: Public Servant, the difference in “road damage” by a Ford F350 as compared to a Prius is a rounding error. The real differential is between “less than 8000 lb.” vehicles and fully loaded semi tractor-trailers, which are exponentially more damaging. The harsh environment and poor roadbed soils of Illinois, and the public’s insistence on having clear-as-possible roads during the winter by using rock salt and brine, also exact environmental damage on the state’s roads without even considering the effect of vehicles. As far as the gas tax, there are two proposals out there. One sponsored by Heather Steans, would increase gas taxes by 30c a gallon, along with this one to begin collecting a mileage tax. Vehicle fuel efficiency is a victim of its own success, and either unpopular proposal is proving to be the third rail of Illinois politics. - Mouthy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:35 am: The mileage tax is just as stupid as a soda tax. Is the legislature that clueless? How about a progressive income tax and quit dinging the middle class. - Amalia - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:43 am: of course Maine Township officials were there protesting getting rid of townships. their head trustee runs their support program for low income individuals that costs WAY more to operate than they give out to the needy. At last check they provide pensions and health care for their trustees, even those who already have a public pension. Their ethics officer, a trustee, was suspended from the practice of law for misrepresentation during a run for judge, a losing effort. of course they are there. they are the poster children for why townships are problematic. - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:49 am: There is a third choice but nobody wants it because it would be too visible; raise the license plate fee. - Amalia - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:56 am: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150909/news/150908879/ Townships and the gross imbalance between funds for the needy and spending on administrative costs. Note that Maine Township is described in this article as are others. Not for profits have to maintain a low percentage of administrative costs. I’m quite familiar with constantly lowering costs to increase the percentage that actually goes to need. Townships, what the what?!? Maine Township should be ashamed. - Bogey Golfer - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:57 am: “I don’t understand the advantage of adding a mileage tax rather than upping the gas tax.” By 2025, the EPA is mandating new vehicles attain 50 mpg. Therefore lower gas consumption means less revenue to build and maintain roads. While there are issues with the mileage fee, it’s an improvement over the status quo. - Federalist - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:58 am: here’s a new push to tax you based on the number of miles you drive. Gas tax revenue has fallen in Illinois, so this would be a way to make money off everyone, including hybrid and electric car drivers. But some critics worry about how the government will monitor the miles you drive. […] So it is my understanding that ALL vehicles, and not just electric and hybrids, would be subject to this tax. If so, the hybrids/electrics would still be using the road while paying the single tax and other autos would get a double whammy- at the pump and with this tax. So hopefully I am reading this wrong. - SAP - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:02 am: Federalist: ==Drivers would get a refund for the taxes paid at the pump.== - Mouthy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:03 am: RNUG - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:49 am: Correct. Or better yet a progressive license fee based on the value of your car. A 1% fee on a $70,000. car would generate $700. Use the 1% rate all the way down to $10,000 where the minimum fee of $100 would be the floor. Anything above $70,000 (as a random example) would also pay a luxury fee of an additional .5% on the value over. Makes sense. Those struggling with a maintenance prone car wouldn’t be paying anything more and those who drive the nice, expensive luxury cars, and who can afford it, will be paying more. Far better in my opinion than a repressive millage tax. One thing they will conveniently not say on a millage tax is what relief there will be when the price of gas, and tax revenue, goes up like it’s prone to do. The reason is simple. There will be none… - Anon - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:18 am: ===Drivers would get a refund for the taxes paid at the pump.=== The cost of administration of this would be ridiculous. You’d need new returns and then folks would have to save physical receipts that are never reported to any authority anywhere to claim. It’d be near impossible to enforce without audits or manually reviewing dozens of receipts for every return. How much of the new revenues would go into the processing millions of new annual returns? - Earnest - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:24 am: A gas tax would capture revenue from people out of state passing through. I don’t think a mileage tax would. Still, we’re going to need new revenue from somewhere. - winners and losers - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:26 am: ==no district would receive less state money than it did in the 2015 – 16 school year.== False. Hold Harmless of $400 Million is ONLY for one year. ==Senator Manar says Wednesday’s vote is a great step forward in changing “the least equitable system of funding education in the nation.”== False. Two other States are worse by that measure, but the Manar bill does little to change that. $5 Billion in NEW money would have to be found to make a real difference in that measure, and then even if $5 Billion is found, the highest spending school district would still spend MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH as the lowest spending district. - Anon221 - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:34 am: When Cullerton made the statement that his bill was “Because….Prius owners”, I took a deep breath and tried to count to ten. Senator Cullerton, please stop the hate!! ( only partail snark). I have always had long commutes, round trip over 100 miles per day. I have purchased gas efficient cars for over 20 years mainly because of commuting. This law is not necessary. Too many problems just with implementation and maintenance. I agree with RNUG- raise the license fee instead. - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:34 am: Mouthy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:03 am: How would you deal with antique / collectible cars that don’t generally rack up many miles? Exempt any vehicle over 25 years old? Or some other method? - SAP - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:40 am: On the Lite Guv issue, I have a small problem with eliminating the office and having the party of the Governor shift if the Governor becomes incapacitated or disqualified. I’d rather retain the Lite Guv, but give her an actual job to do such as the director of a State Agency. - SAP - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:42 am: 221: President Cullerton drives a Tesla. He is part of the problem. /s - DuPage - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:45 am: Before adding any new tax, first quit using highway and vehicle taxes for other things. Jesse White gives libraries money out of fees collected from drivers. That should be stopped and that money used to pay rent and utilities at the drivers license facilities. - Honeybear - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:45 am: Love the Franks stuff. Transparency is a must with these tax credits that are draining the coffers dry. - Mouthy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:47 am: - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:34 am: $100. for collectible cars. I believe these cars are usually limited to 5,000 miles to maintain their insurance would be one method. Another would be to use as a basis the insured amount of a total loss of the car. - winners and losers - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:57 am: The school funding problem (as Manar even sometimes admits) is that Illinois funds less than 30 percent of PK-12 education, while almost all other States pay more than 50 percent from State funds. Until you change that, you will not solve the problems that Manar claims his bill is solving. - South Central - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:58 am: Township government survives because of the lobbying from the collar counties, where their officials make a nice living from the positions, with little to show for it. Promoting townships as valuable because they are local is a red herring. In my experience graft can still exist in township government in the rest of the state, too. Also, our roads (our most important township function) suffer because each township gets only the funds it’s tax base and road designations support. If there is only farmland, tax revenue is low. Then, consider that some townships are actually 1/2 townships–meaning just 18 sections (square miles) of land. Yet, the half townships must support the same amount of equipment to maintain the roads as a larger township. And , just try to find a competent, honest person to be the road commissioner! The answer is eliminating townships, which are costing us more than they give back. By giving these duties to county government, we can actually have better roads for less cost. This change is way past due. - Judgment Day - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:07 pm: A ‘mileage tax’. Really? Administered by the State of Illinois? ——————- OK, let’s think about just a few of the administrative spin-offs that can come from this. First off, you have to have these physical devices installed in each vehicle. What happens if the vehicles are registered outside of Illinois, but for whatever reason, are being driven here in Illinois. Are we going to have to have “Vehicle Registration Auditors” who specialize in stopping vehicles with out-of-state plates to verify that the vehicle is just in transit vrs. being ‘illegally domiciled’ here in Illinois. Really neat way to encourage out-of-state tourism here in IL ….. Another ‘feature’ would be is that we could treat this like property taxes, and bring back the old personal property tax concept where vehicles are assigned values based upon the old ‘Blue Books’, and the per mile costs could be adjusted using computers. After all, “With computers, you can do anything” - Right? Just look at how wonderfully the administration of the Affordable Care Act is working. It will be a snap - No problems. Yeah, right. One other thing. Anybody living in boarder areas will likely be looking to domicile their vehicles across the border. Talk about a never ending cat & mouse game. Why don’t we run a test (pilot program) for a limited time period (say 3 years), and limit the program to just the City of Chicago? Yeah, that would work. Old adage in the computer business: “Complexity is easy. Simplicity is HARD”. The Chicago lawyers who though this one up (actually think it initially came out of Oregon) need to be sentenced to run this pilot program. And 2 days a week, they would have to run the counter (Customer Service). They’ll learn. Just as a point, maybe we need to look at all the patronage employees that both Blago and Quinn pushed into IDOT and other places - see if we are getting any value for our money before we go crazy increasing taxes. Remember the employees who were added at IDOT to “plant trees and create spreadsheets”? - Hick - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:15 pm: Townships maintain thousands of miles of rural roads, something that counties cannot do without adding personnel and equipment and wiping out any gains from eliminating townships. - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:19 pm: - Mouthy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:47 am Depends on the plate category, you are thinking of the AV category which is only to shows, exhibitions, repairs and test drives; most those get only a few hundred miles a year. EA is unlimited usage but only 7 months of the year. Insured value would be OUCH because it’s tough to build one cheap these days. And some people who want to drive them whenever have normal plates on them. - DuPage - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:26 pm: Ton-mile tax on all-electric cars. Half rate on hybrid cars, as they still buy some gas and pay tax on it. Regular cars pay gas tax only. Old collectable cars already pay more because they use more gas per mile, so they automatically pay more gas tax per mile. - Judgment Day - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:32 pm: “Townships maintain thousands of miles of rural roads, something that counties cannot do without adding personnel and equipment and wiping out any gains from eliminating townships.” ———– There’s another issue you are going to have, especially in tax capped counties. County boards for the last 10+ years have been ‘adjusting their tax extensions for the different County Highway funds (County Road; County Bridge; & County Highway Matching Tax) to move any yearly tax extension amount increases out of the Highway funds & into the County General (Administration) funds. Which is kind of questionable, but they do it. So, what you would most likely do in some Counties is ending up rewarding the County General fund with more money, while the road funds at the County level get a load more work, and less money. A little unanticipated consequence. - Six Degrees of Separation - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:36 pm: One complicating factor in all of this is that the feds still collect a per gallon gas tax. If there is to be a comprehensive solution, the feds need to be part of it as well as the state. Some people question why we need to collect federal tax at the pump, send it to Washington DC, only to have it returned to the state with whatever strings attached and whatever proportion DC sees fit…an auto or light truck getting 25 mpg and driving 10,000 miles a year pays about $75 each of federal and state motor fuel tax a year. raising the plate fee to a fixed amount (say a $200 a year raise) and eliminating federal and state MFT tax would be very simple to administer, avoid “big brother” syndrome, treat all fuel sources the same, but would benefit high mileage drivers and punish occasional drivers, and would be more difficult for low income owners to come up with every year at once. - titan - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:44 pm: A mileage tax vs. a gas tax seems like something of a wash to me - the car gets so many miles per gallon (yes, it does vary by type of driving). One is a somewhat loose proxy for the other. I am not sure I like the electronic monitoring of it though. It would seem to me to be less intrusive to have one list the year’s starting and ending odometer readings on the tax form. - DuPage - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:52 pm: They could require large cranes to buy truck plates based on weight, as other states do. These cranes put the same wear and tear on the roads as any other heavy truck, but they pay nothing because they are allowed to drive unlimited miles with no license plate at all. - Mouthy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:11 pm: - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:19 pm: I don’t know enough about classic cars to venture forth anything more but I’m certain that those types of vehicles would not be a deal breaker on an overall plan. One thing I’d add is that as a car ages, and it’s value diminishes, the cost of a plate would go down also. Maybe the state could partner with someone like KBB for a comprehensive list of cars, based on average condition for the year, values for use for calculating license fees. - blue dog dem - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:14 pm: I am starting to think that Cap fax readers are afraid to take on the Ag industry. The entire states revenue issues, down to the local levels,can be fixed with fair taxation. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:18 pm: Consolidating the Comptroller and Treasurer would pair nicely with eliminating the lite guv position. Not that MJM has changed his mind on consolidating offices, but that would make for a nice amended bill in fantasy land. - benniefly - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:26 pm: I am not sure the math adds up on the mileage tax if people are allowed to deduct the Illinois gas tax paid at the pump from your bill as per the stories I am reading. For example, typically I fill up my car with about 15 gallons per week. The Illinois gas tax is $0.19/gallon. 52 weeks x 15 gallons/week x $0.19 per gallon equals me paying about $148.20 in gas taxes in a typical year. Generally my car gets around 25 miles/gallon. That means if I buy and use 15 gallons per week, I am driving somewhere around 19,500 miles in a typical year. Under the new per mile tax, I would pay 19,500 miles x $0.015 per mile = $292.50. If I am allowed to deduct the gas tax tax of $148.20 from the $292.50, I would only being paying $144.30 at the end of the year. That is less than what I am paying now but now with the added benefit of the State being able to track me wherever I go. The thing that I find particularly perverse about this is that the math says taht the overall tax savings is larger the worse the mpg rating of your vehicle. For example, if I am still driving 19,500 per year, but this time I am driving something that gets 8 miles/gallon, then my typical gas tax paid at the pump in a given year would be 2437.5 gallons of gas x $0.19/gallon = $463.13. If I get to deduct that from the $0.015 tax/mile for driving 19,500 miles, then I pay nothing or the State will be paying me to drive on their roads. In either case, this is the type of legislation that only an oil company or auto manufacturer specializing in large trucks and SUVs could get behind. - Anon - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:08 pm: A mileage tax would have so many odd features it’s hard to know where to start. If your vehicle gets 10 miles per gallon, it’s equivalent to a 15 cent per gallon tax. If you get 50 miles per gallon, it’s the equivalent of 75 cents per gallon. Don’t Democrats want to encourage fuel-efficient vehicles? Also there is the little matter of climate change. Fuel-efficient vehicles release less carbon dioxide. President Obama at least seems concerned about this. If they’re going to tax by the mile, I assume they’ll charge bicyclists as well. They use the roads, don’t they? The way they address privacy concerns is ludicrous. Say you drive 5000 miles per year and are concerned about privacy. No problemo. Just pay an extra $375 in taxes and you’re good. And if you drive 50,000 miles per year you can just claim privacy concerns and avoid $300 per year in taxes. Others have raised good points: ==What about miles traveled outside of the state== ==A gas tax would capture revenue from people out of state passing through. I don’t think a mileage tax would.== Raising the license plate tax would be highly regressive, and would have no relation to how many miles you drive. But Illinois legislators have shown a real talent for regressive taxes to fund the government, so maybe that would be considered. There is a tax in place that works. It’s called a gas tax. It is directly related to how much wear you cause on the roads and how much greenhouse gas you put into the air. Raise it if more revenue is needed. - Fairness and Fairness Only - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:18 pm: Even Missouri has figured out that they could add an annual electric vehicle sticker for $75 to recoup lost fuel tax and still charge a road usage fee. Keep the rest of it at a gallon tax. Either way, I don’t see spending and repairs on the roads or bridges in my region. Every time that I fill my tank I wonder where the money goes. - NoGifts - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:39 pm: They have a pilot vmt charge program in Oregon http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/RUFPP/pages/index.aspx You can see how they address the questions raised. - Beenthereseenthat - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:01 pm: On the “mileage” tax, wouldn’t it be easier to just impose a non-petroleum fueled vehicle an annual road use fee? Why put the rest of us through a bueaucratic hassle. And impose a fee on bicycles over a certain size as well. They use roads too. - SAP - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 4:13 pm: Fairness: Are you saying that you don’t like the Illinois regime of $35 for 2-year license plate renewal for electric vehicles (compared to $101/year for internal combustion powered vehicles)? - Anon - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 5:05 pm: ==Fairness: Are you saying that you don’t like the Illinois regime of $35 for 2-year license plate renewal for electric vehicles (compared to $101/year for internal combustion powered vehicles)?== If that’s true then it seems like a simpler approach is just to charge the same fee for electric and conventional vehicles. Then raise the gas tax if needed. - blue dog dem - Friday, Apr 15, 16 @ 4:51 am: Weren’t these silly toll roads around the Windy City supposed to accomplish the same thing? - Fairness and Fairness Only - Friday, Apr 15, 16 @ 12:48 pm: SAP and Anon @ 5:05, yes, I am saying that the combination of lower license plate renewals plus diminished (or zero) fuel tax is too much of a discount for vehicles that still use the transportation network, even if they’re zero or low emissions. I don’t agree with the proposed miles-driven approach. I’d agree with a fee approach, which would still allow a lower total cost to the low or zero emission vehicles. I was amazed to see the local STL market news coverage regarding the mileage. Generally, coverage of the budget impasse and turnaround agenda seems very limited. But the thought of big brother watching the mileage driven had people in fits. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.