122 Comments - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:08 am: This is in addition to dozens of positions left unfilled. - Saluki - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:09 am: Rauner’s march to irrelevance continues. November cannot get here soon enough. Do the super stars in Gov. Moneybags office not realize the damage they are doing to private sector business when Universities announce layoffs like this? It’s amazing that they think this is a winnin track to be on. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:10 am: Macomb, Western Illinois Community, “Vote Accordingly” If you keep giving Raunerites a Pass, how long until Macomb loses Western? How long are you willing to pretend Raunerites are trying to close your school, and Eastern, and Chicago State? Had enough? “Vote Accordingly”… Oh, let’s remeber Ron Sandack today… @RonSandack: I’m frustrated 2, but taking steps towards reforming IL more important than short term budget stalemate. Remember, Macomb, remember Western, layoffs and decimating Western is A-OK by Ron Sandack. Oh, he’s frustrated, but Ron Sandack thinks people being laidoff is worth 1.4% growth and $500 million in revenues. Don’t forget, and don’t forget to “Vote Accordingly” - walker - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:12 am: Public concern is spreading. Three friends have recently told me they are encouraging their kids to avoid Illinois public universities. - illinoised - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:13 am: The Run Aground Agenda ‘ s negative effect on our economy and higher education and our state reputation grows daily. - allknowingmasterofracoondom - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:15 am: Does anyone know the WIU total annual budget? I am trying to understand what their goal of $4MM in savings represents. - Roadypig - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:15 am: #winnin’? - Nick Name - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:17 am: @9:09 a.m.: “Do the super stars in Gov. Moneybags office not realize the damage they are doing to private sector business when Universities announce layoffs like this? It’s amazing that they think this is a winnin track to be on.” I agree with Wordslinger that the governor does realize the damage this causes, and that for him, this is exactly the winning track. - olddog - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:18 am: @ all-knowing master — Did you look here? (really like your nickname, BTW): http://www.wiu.edu/Budget/budget_pdfs/FY16%20Appropriated%20Internal%20Budget%20Book.pdf - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:21 am: ===I am trying to understand what their goal of $4MM in savings represents.=== Aw, this is easy. Rauner, Raunerites, and Ron Sandack want Western discredited and force the loss of certain majors, certain colleges in the university, consolidating Illinois universities, leading to Western facing closure, like Eastern or Chicago State, but doing it by ruining the institution, not its economics. Western? They are bleeding and trying to salvage their university before buildings close, majors ends, enrollment drops start leveling off so Rauner and Raunerites can’t say “too few people go, no accreditation, Western needs to go.”. That’s why $4 million is at play. Now, keep in mind Ron Sabdack is frustrated too… Right? Exactly right. - Big Joe - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:22 am: Willy, you beat me to it with the Sandack quotes. I wonder how strong he is in his district. The people in his area must be embarrassed to have him spouting that stuff. Hang in there, Jack in Macomb. - Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:23 am: If you want to vote against anyone who failed to appropriate enough money for higher education there would be no one left in Springfield. Voting for spending and not revenue is a shell game and should be condemned by fair minded people. - illinois manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:24 am: Noreen Hammond….vote accordingly….when veto override comes up because people are voting accordingly …see recent primary that Gov Denile cant see. And dont be cute tgat you had some other idea that has no hope of passing….we are watching and voting accordingly - Facts are Stubborn Things - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:24 am: If only there was some constitutional and legal way to check a Gov. that refuses to set down and negotiate a budget without insisting on his personal reforms which the people of Illinois have not embraced — super majority of dems in house and senate. I have searched everywhere and I think the only option is in three years when he is up for election? - illinois manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:25 am: 500 are eligible to retire out of about 1500 employees and the need to do that - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:26 am: Sandack won’t get beat. Sandack will win handily. Uihlein will see to that… Now, if Sandack wants to run statewide in 2018, Charleston, or Carbondale, or Edwardsville… …Sandack wants these town’s economic engines gone… we’ll see what happens. It’s up to towns like Macomb to vote accordingly where they can. - allknowingmasterofracoondom - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:28 am: Thanks olddog…for some reason I could not find that link. Looks like their savings goal was roughly 3%. Meh, not a bad effort for a public institution, although their tuition/costs to attend for in state students has risen on average 5.09% per year for the last 10 years. It just costs to much to send kids to college anymore. Their has to be a better way. - Magic carpet ride - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:29 am: So many “taxpayers” feeling the “winning” of our governor. With threats to state facilities closing the anger level is growing daily. This strategy is going to backfire on the GOP come November. Its time to turnarund the turnaround. Time is running out for so many in our state. - Gert Frobe - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:44 am: BVR - “Today I’m announcin’ a new part of my turnaround agenda. All our state universities are teamin’ up with the University of Phoenix so our young people can get their fancy book learnin’ degrees without leavin’ their homes!” - Jack Stephens - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:45 am: Just a reminder the Franchise $5 Pizza/Sandwich shops will be closing too. Notably, none of the Prisons in and around Macomb are being shorted in their budgets. - Former Hoosier - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:49 am: NPR Illinois Issues In-Depth discusses the fact that many seniors in high school are having to change their educational plans because of a lack of MAP funding. Some are going out of state, some are going to community college, some aren’t going to go to college at all (although they had planned on doing so). - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:50 am: === Voting for spending and not revenue is a shell game and should be condemned by fair minded people.=== “Fair minded people” believe a governor should propose an Approp to fund Higher Ed. “Fair minded people” also recognize a veto can only be delivered by a governor, and “fair minded people” also know when a governor vetoes, it’s on that governor to find a way to get the Approp passed, or start over, honestly, and fund Higher Ed… “Fair minded people” ubderstand governors own their actions too… - East Central Illinois - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:54 am: @ Lucky Pierre Open. Your. Eyes. - Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:56 am: ==November cannot get here soon enough.== Regretfully, it is unlikely much will change imho. I thought new Democratic members might end the impasse after being sworn in. But even if Democrats added multiple seats, or even just Stratton, where does that leave us? Right where things are now. Picture 2017. Rauner and Madigan still refuse to compromise. At this point, does Madigan use his restored supermajority to override Rauner’s veto and unilaterally force a budget containing another tax increase? Call me pessimistic, but that seems doubtful. Both Rauner and Madigan want the other to, at minimum, share the jacket for any new tax increase. Adding more Democratic seats may not make much difference unless Madigan is willing to use them, but doing so positions Rauner and Republicans for large gains in the 2018 elections. Illinois will then have another tax increase, likely very few reforms, and a midterm election with lower turnout than general election years. As long as these two stick to their guns, adding more seats to Madigan’s majority changes very little in this context. - Ducky LaMoore - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:58 am: === Voting for spending and not revenue is a shell game and should be condemned by fair minded people.=== Tell that to every republican ever. Uh… and by the way, you can pass an unbalanced budget and then figure out how much revenue you need to balance it. - Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:59 am: fair minded people would hold the GA responsible too OW Shared governance requires compromise a novel concept in Springfield I missed the revenue plan to fund the higher Ed spending from the Democrats. Can you explain? I think your John Wooden quote applies the Senate higher education bill - illini97 - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:59 am: “Fair minded people” know that the legislature has worked with every Governor in the State’s history to get a budget in place. And now we have no budget. What changed? Or who? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:00 am: - FKA - So you think the members who have Western, Eastern, U of I, Southern, you think they should get a pass for voting against their districts and their districts’ economic engines? That doesn’t sound like you. You’re sounding like a victim resigned to let Raunerites destroy their districts, no repercussions? That’s not you, and I mean that with great respect. “Vote Accordingly” is THAT important. Accountability is THAT important. You know that. - Whatever - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:02 am: Lucky Pierre @ 9:23 am Voting for spending and not revenue allows the universities to share in the pool of existing funds rather than being shut out entirely, and is supported by fair minded people who actually understand government finance. Fixed it for you - cdog - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:04 am: “Voting for spending and not revenue is a shell game and should be condemned by fair minded people.” Voting for appropriations is not voting for spending. It is a vote to give contracts standing. Those who are providing services need to work to get this approp signed. Then, at least, you can get your day in court. In addition, only the Gov spends for HIS agencies, and he says he doesn’t need a “massive tax hike.” He has magic beans to cover HIS exploding backlog. - East Central Illinois - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:05 am: @ Whatever @ 10:02 a.m. Standing ovation on your comment! - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:05 am: ===fair minded people would hold the GA responsible too OW=== Article VIII, Section 2, (a) Get back to me. That’ll cover the rest of your comment. Also, Ron Sandack makes clear, nothing but pain, purposeful pain… until… Please keep up. - Gert Frobe - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:07 am: “Because of the corrupt bargain we can’t afford to provide anyone with an in-state college education. Any student who has already paid for this semester will receive a voucher for Trump University.” - Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:09 am: If more legislators understood government finance maybe we would have a balanced budget. Instead we submit appropriations but not revenue plans. We discuss cuts but don’t say where or how much. We are too chicken to raise taxes on anyone except the 1%. No profiles in courage these days down in Springfield but there sure is a lot of name calling - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:11 am: This is another big lesson to learn in wanting change. Wanting change for change’s sake can be brutal. Acceptance of change with few details can be devastating. Sorry but I don’t want change because of “blind” outrage. Pat Quinn is a rock-solid statesman and Nobel prize humanitarian next to this. - cdog - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:11 am: “I missed the revenue plan to fund the higher Ed spending from the Democrats. Can you explain?” Sweeps is a revenue plan? riiiiiight. There are not enough funds to be swept to cover the exploding bill backlog. There are not enough funds to be swept to cover basic state functions in Rauner’s agencies. Period. End of story. checkmate. - Norseman - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:11 am: Great story: Illinois Issues: Budget Impasse Blurs Future For The Class of 2016 http://wuis.org/post/illinois-issues-budget-impasse-blurs-future-class-2016#stream/0 - anon - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:17 am: The legislators who represent WIU, EIU, and SIU call themselves advocates for their universities. Yet they vote to sacrifice those institutions in the name of the turnaround agenda. Pitiful. - Emily Miller - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:18 am: Thank goodness we’re all still #winning. - @MisterJayEm - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:21 am: “I agree with Wordslinger that the governor does realize the damage this causes, and that for him, this is exactly the winning track.” This is the Plan. – MrJM - Tone - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:23 am: Illinois simply has too many public universities. Either WIU or EIU should be scrapped. - Tone - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:24 am: Chicago State should have been closed years ago. - Jimmy H - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:25 am: - Whatever - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:02 am: Exactly as you say. Thank you! - Tone - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:26 am: “Government Finance” you mean decades of deficit spending? - atsuishin - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:33 am: Close WIU quad cities? - SadTimesInMacomb - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:38 am: Keep in mind that two weeks ago Rauner appointed WIU President Jack Thomas to the IL Board of Higher Education. Jack is now a willing pawn in Rauner’s game. Macomb and WIU have been bought off and sold out, esp. by Rep. Norine Hammond (”who” is up for election in November). As OW says, “Vote Accordingly.” - Hedley Lamarr - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:48 am: More business for the IDES. - illinois manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:51 am: The state has too many centimillionaires in the govoners office …one should be scrapped. - Jimmy H - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:52 am: - SadTimesInMacomb - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:38 am: Thank you for pointing that out. - JS Mill - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:53 am: Sorry, but when Emily Miller jumps in with the snark, well…. you know somebody needs to be taken to the woodshed pronto! I am happy to lay as much of this on the Governor. The fact that this level of damage is being done and no budget for FY16. It is an unprecedented level of fiscal disaster. It says a lot about more about this governor and his failure to govern than anything else. Yes, Madigan et al bare the bulk of responsibility for the debt (is everyone satisfied that he has been blamed as well?.But, he and those he controls (snark) have worked with other governors, not always well but we didn’t have a calamity of this nature. That is an empirical truth. I get that some believe the Rauner has to go nuclear to make changes (some think he is not an insider or politician but he is) but the truth is that real change takes time, only children think that the change fairy will come over night and make it all different. You don’t have to destroy lives to get change. Real leaders lead people to the right decisions, bring them along, build for the long view, have a positive vision that does not denigrate (in this case) any of the citizens he represents. How many times has he ripped large segments of our citizenry, you know, taxpayers? Almost daily. How many of Rauner’s kin went to CSU or WIU? My guess is none, where is the shared sacrifice he talked about? He isn’t doing this for Illinois, he is doing it to Illinois. I say pants on fire, Governor. - Not Norine - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:59 am: Looks like a plan to keep the University going till the Fall. Western has all its basic bills covered, including salary for 9 month contracts, but can’t cover the spread for a few months for 10, 11, 12 month contracts (approx. 1 mil per month) in August/Sept. These layoffs enable the Univ. to cover those contracts and make it through the Fall. - East Central Illinois - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:03 am: @ Tone = = Either WIU or EIU should be scrapped = = Why don’t you drive to Macomb or Charleston and tell the good people of those communities that statement. geez - East Central Illinois - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:05 am: @ Tone == “Either WIU or EIU should be scrapped” == Why don’t you drive to Macomb or Charleston and tell the good people of those communities that statement? Geez - East Central Illinois - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:05 am: sorry for the duplicate - JS Mill - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:06 am: =Illinois simply has too many public universities.= What metric are you using to arrive at that conclusion? Hint- ignorance is not a metric. - illinois manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:06 am: WIU should be able to make it to Norines forced retirement. Votevaccordingly - Jimmy H - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:12 am: The loss of revenue from greatly reduced enrollment will be devastating. Enrollment for Fall semester is happening now. The situation with Higher Ed. is decimating enrollment and soon no amount will make them whole. There will be a permanent loss of jobs, destroyed lives, which will extend to the communities in which these Universities reside. R members that represent these communities need to start representing their communities and help Higher Ed. appropriations get the 71 they need. Are there any R members representing these University communities that haven’t been bought? Because their actions are giving the voters in the communities the idea their reps. have been bought. - Tone - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:20 am: declining enrollment at our state universities is a good indication that we don’t need as many as we have - Not Norine - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:21 am: In my conversations (in district) with Norine supporters, many are mounting the whisper campaign that she has no choice. A few have stated they will not vote for her again, but many have blamed Rauner 100% and then Madigan 70% (numbers approx.) - Past the Rule of 85 - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:21 am: This news and other daily assaults on the state sickens me. OW and others tell us to vote accordingly. I’ve lived in the same district for almost 20 years and don’t recall ever having a choice for Rep or Senator. I’m so disgusted I even checked into a run as an independent just to give notice the serfs are angry. I found out that since I did my civic duty and voted in the primary I can’t even do that. - Norseman - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:22 am: JS Mill, well said. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:26 am: - Tone - Students are choosing to leave Illinois due to the deals they can get for their attendence. It’s not there’s too many, Illinois is losing out to “ridiculously” generous packages. Decimating more universities will not keep Illinois seniors here for their college experiences. - Norseman - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:28 am: === … many are mounting the whisper campaign that she has no choice. === She has a choice. Her choice is to stick with the Rauner money to help her get re-elected. If that fails, then she’ll depend upon him to get a cushy appointment. Her choice is for her future, not the WIU community’s future. Vote accordingly. - Federalist - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:32 am: I do not see anywhere that Western Illinois University is planning to stop using general fund dollars to support the athletic department. According to their Internal Budget $1.9 million was appropriated for FY 2014 as well as for FY 2015. Is this being stopped? If not, it had better be on the chopping block and soon. - Aldyth - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:33 am: Vitales makes a great pizza, Sunrise does a fantastic breakfast, Yen Ching is the only place I’ve ever been that makes tofu taste good, and the Red Ox is a favorite of families and college students. How many will survive Governor Rauner? - illinois manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:33 am: Norrine has 3 prisons too vote accordingly and we will have a budget next year. - Federalist - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:34 am: Norseman - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:28 am: === … many are mounting the whisper campaign that she has no choice. === She has a choice. Her choice is to stick with the Rauner money to help her get re-elected. If that fails, then she’ll depend upon him to get a cushy appointment. Her choice is for her future, not the WIU community’s future. Vote accordingly. That sums it up! We all make choices this is hers. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:35 am: - Federalist - Hmm. Wonder if the Sports programs generate revenue too? Check on that, get back to us. - Not Norine - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:36 am: WIU laid off the Mens Tennis Coach for next year. Savings…7,600 in appropriated funds. - Old and In the Way - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:40 am: She has no choice? Really? Seems to me she has made a choice and it’s about her and not her constituency! If you can’t or won’t vote for her opponent just write in “present” on the ballot! She did the same for her constituents……… - ArchPundit - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:48 am: EIU: 8,500 WIU: 11,000 Chicago State: 6,100 So different people want to close those schools. Where do the students go? If you want to close them, you need to find spots for the students. - illinoised - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:49 am: Norine Hammond so far has chosen to support Rauner instead of WIU, Macomb, and western Illinois region. Vote her out of office! - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:50 am: This is real “simple”… If your member(s) of the General Assembly represent a town/county/region that houses a state university and the member(s) continually vote to starve, dismantle, or eliminate the economic engine that IS the state university… … that’s not voting for the town, the district, the region, or the state. Vote Accordingly. Now, if you think the member(s) destroying the towns/counties/regions purposefully is ok or you don’t think Voting Accordingly doesn’t matter, you are a victim of your own laziness and self-awareness. “Simple” It’s now up to the member(s) to choose… before voters choose to Vote Accordingly. - cdog - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:53 am: It is obvious that the universities are economic engines. I don’t think Rauner’s and the ILGOP’s “structural reforms” have the octane to save entire university communities. If Rauner was half the man-ager he thought he was, he would have constructive creative ideas about how to increase national traffic to these awesome institutions of higher learning, not just always acts of destruction. - illinois manufacturer - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 11:53 am: Report to NCAA says sports loses 9 million it should be cut until budget - ArchPundit - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:02 pm: “Wonder if the Sports programs generate revenue too?” While it does generate some, few schools generate revenue to cover their own costs. In this case the generated revenue likely is in addition to the state general funds. If you want to reduce costs for athletics, football is where to start. It is both expensive equipment wise, but also it’s just a big team with more coaches needed. Doing away with it would allow more typical students to participate in a wider variety of sports. - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:03 pm: –Either WIU or EIU should be scrapped = = The plan is probably both, and CSU, too — you know, that place where our erudite governor says they “throw money down the toilet.” At least you’re honest about it. It would have been swell if the governor had been honest and shared his plans for the state prior to the election, so the voters could have made an informed choice. I’m about out of words that pass the rules of the house. I just wish this guy would have picked some other, non-malignant hobby for this third act. I’m sick and ashamed from all these people getting tossed out of work. They didn’t have it coming. - ArchPundit - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:07 pm: “Report to NCAA says sports loses 9 million it should be cut until budget” But the question is whether you save much in the mean time or do you cost more in restartup costs. Without digging into the details it’s hard to say. It’s part of the problem with this kind of disaster brought to Illinois by Rauner. What seems obvious isn’t always and without being able to plan it’s impossible to act responsibly. - thechampaignlife - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:32 pm: I hear rumblings of layoffs coming to the U of I administration. - Louis Howe - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:39 pm: Let’s be honest, Norine was appointed by the republican party and local republicans. WIU has suffered for decades from being represented in the General Assembly by representatives were coat holders, and not advocates for the University. Part of the problem was created locally by electing weak representation. - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 12:48 pm: ==Illinois simply has too many public universities. Either WIU or EIU should be scrapped.== Do you even think before you type or do you just let the voices come through? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:01 pm: ===Report to NCAA says sports loses 9 million it should be cut until budget=== So, lose the athletes, and while a great many may be in scholarship, they are bodies in the dorms, in the classrooms, they generate regional and school pride, help in recruiting students, aid in alum fundraising, and raise the profile of the university to encourage growth, as seen in other schools in recent research. Plus, as said, once you shut it down, the cost to reup athletics is even bigger. - Jack Stephens - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:03 pm: Illinois has too many prisons and wastes Billions of taxpayer dollars on non-violent offenders. - CountingCatch - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:03 pm: –Either WIU or EIU should be scrapped = = Have you ever been to either campus? Where did you attend college? - JS Mill - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:16 pm: =Decimating more universities will not keep Illinois seniors here for their college experiences. = Please forgive me for jumping your post here, but what does research tell us about what happens when students leave the state for college? They tend not to return. Taking with them higher income level (for college grads) and the potential for innovation, job creation etc. But the tinfoil hat wearing set like Tone doesn’t care to think about that. They like to criticize the fire department for not putting out fires and thus they should be eliminated saving taxpayers money. Of course, they created that little peccadillo by cutting the water supply to fire hydrants so they couldn’t put out fires. Kind of like forcing cuts to college programs and increased tuition leading to an exodus of students and then saying we don’t need universities. - Hope Dies Last - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:23 pm: @ArchPundit Please don’t forget NEIU: 9,900 One day every week furloughs for faculty, staff, and administration is not a sustainable plan–though it is planned for the next 5 months. Where do our first-generation, 33% Hispanic students go? - Not Norine - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:38 pm: —So, lose the athletes, and while a great many may be in scholarship, they are bodies in the dorms, in the classrooms, they generate regional and school pride, help in recruiting students, aid in alum fundraising, and raise the profile of the university to encourage growth, as seen in other schools in recent research. Red Herring: Spend the same scholarship money on academic students and you get all the same benefits + raise standards for the University and save $. Where is this “recent research”? The only research I see is what Archie is citing 9 mil per year of tuition revenue/appropriations spent for Athletics. http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/projects/ncaa/subsidy-scorecards/western-illinois-university - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:47 pm: - Not Norine - Start here http://www.educationdive.com/news/how-march-madness-success-boosted-admissions-for-5-universities/234331/ Or… http://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2013/04/29/the-flutie-effect-how-athletic-success-boosts-college-applications/#5a18001d6ac9 Just start there. You need to look outside to see if done right, how it can impact universities. - CapnCrunch - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:51 pm: “If you want to reduce costs for athletics, football is where to start…….” Chicago State might start by not playing spring baseball in Hawaii. - Not Norine - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:54 pm: –You need to look outside to see if done right, how it can impact universities. I’d rather play the lottery. Seriously, that’s all you got? What about the other 346 schools. Look up Fallacy of Composition for that one. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 1:57 pm: Athletics helps schools, it just does… Sorry - Not Norine - http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/3222/how-fgcus-run-can-benefit-admissions - Downstate - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:04 pm: I’m going to be a contrarian here. Would you go to a medical specialist who provided medical relief only 56% of the time? Probably not. The statistics on some of our state universities are just as atrocious. Go to www.collegeresults.org to see the graduation rates at the various colleges (Western, Northeastern, Chicago State). The SIX year graduation rate at Western is 56%. In particular, if you are black student going to WIU, you have less than a 40% chance of graduating in six years. Now factor in the amount of state money (and student loans) that are fostering these type of results, and we should be outraged. Again, it’s not a four year graduation rate at 56%. WIU’s SIX year graduation rate is that low. I think we deserve better. - ArchPundit - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:17 pm: “Please don’t forget NEIU: 9,900″ Sorry, hard to keep track of all of the universities people want to scrap…;) But that puts us at finding about 35,000 slots at other colleges with just those four. - Higher Ed - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:19 pm: This awful situation is playing out exactly as the Governor planned. This is on him and him alone. My earlier post and feeling about the Governor didn’t make the civility cut. Let’s just say I agree that pants on fire applies to Rauner. The only hope I see if for Republican members to finally say enough is enough. Unfortunately, they are not there yet. I am afraid by the time they see the light, it will be too late. - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:20 pm: ==I think we deserve better.== And decimating the universities financially accomplishes that how? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:23 pm: ===I think we deserve better.=== I don’t remember Rauner running, saying… “You choose… Eastern, Western, Chicago State… Two have to go… Vote Rauner..,” Did I miss something? - ArchPundit - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:30 pm: “Again, it’s not a four year graduation rate at 56%. WIU’s SIX year graduation rate is that low.” So shut it down? Starve it for funding? 57 % is the average at 4 year public institutions. That’s not good enough as someone who works in retaining students at the college level, but WIU isn’t some shocking underachiever. NEIU and Chicago State are lower, but also face demographic factors that are very challenging. There’s an easy way to bump up your grad rate–only accept those you are sure can get through, but then you cut off access to students who most need access. I can guarantee you this sort of impasse is the worst way to retain students as faculty &staff becomes more overwhelmed with less time. - Dale Cooper - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:33 pm: So up to this point, over a year after the inauguration, has “That’s our Bruce” actually created any jobs? Other than for his friends, aka the “superstars”? - Rich Miller - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:33 pm: ArchPundit +1 - ArchPundit - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:36 pm: “Chicago State might start by not playing spring baseball in Hawaii.” Probably not. Sports funding is often through student fees and can’t be diverted especially within a year. Budgets aren’t just big pots of money you can spend anywhere in a government agency. There are things like laws, regulations, policies, etc that determine how money can be spent. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:43 pm: Downstate, compare WIU’s grad rate to other schools that have the same number of low-income or underrepresented students. Compare it to other schools where the incoming students have similar ACT scores. WIU doesn’t look bad at all. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 2:46 pm: Look at this story about how state aid to low-income undergraduates boosts their chances at graduating; http://chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/report-ties-state-aid-to-improved-graduation-rates/110356 Of course we have taken the opposite path in Illinois and gutted state aid. - Downstate - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:07 pm: ArchPundit, So we’re going to saddle these kids with college debt, and think that a six year graduation rate at 56% is acceptable? As another has suggested, it’s almost like a reverse Robin Hood mentality. Encourage them to stay for six years, on the 56% chance that they can graduate. What does the University have to lose? Student takes on more debt and college gets to charge 12 semesters of tuition rather than just 8. Supporting lackluster performance in state universities is akin to paying a 50% premium to a road construction company for delaying the completion of a highway by two years. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:18 pm: Downstate - you don’t understand what a grad rate is or what it represents. Students who come from higher income families and who have high GPA’s and ACT scores are more likely to graduate than other students regardless of where they go to school. Students with lower GPA’s and ACT scores and/or from low-income families are less likely to graduate. Guess which kind of student CSU and NEIU have more of compared to which kind UIUC has more of? Guess what the effect of gutting MAP is on these students? - JS Mill - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:19 pm: =Again, it’s not a four year graduation rate at 56%. WIU’s SIX year graduation rate is that low. I think we deserve better.= Many of these kids have no intention of graduating in 4 years. Many are part time students or are self funding their education and have to take breaks to build up income. they wouldn’t have to do that if say, MAP grants were being paid on time. The pool of support for kids in poverty is shrinking as the pool of students living in poverty is rising. BTW- Jobs for those kids are also becoming more scarce. It is a self fulfilling cycle and appears to be a part of the Governors TA plan. - Federalist - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:31 pm: FYI, I noted earlier that state appropriated funds of $1.9 million were being used by WIU for Athletics. In addition, each student is charged a $17.43 per credit hour Athletic Fee. If one takes a full load of 30 semester hours during the year that amounts to an addition $522.90 per student. This type of information I am providing seems never to get mentioned and never comes up for discussion either in the MSM nor I doubt at the University or Board of Trustees level, - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:39 pm: Downstate: So starving them of funding is the solution? I think some of you twist yourself into pretzels in order to rationalize that what is happening is somehow good. You reach for points that justify the financial destruction of our state universities. If you want to have a discussion about effectiveness, then fine. But trying to tie that discussion into what is happening now is just absurd. - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:42 pm: I would also note that there are all kinds of reasons why a graduation rate may be lower. You have to look at the student make-up (is there a significant population of part time students on a degree path that takes them beyond 6 years for example). - Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:44 pm: @Oswego Willy - imho, they should all be held accountable and none absolved, from Gov Rauner and Speaker Madigan to the youngest mushrooms. However, I am starting to doubt that holding the GA ==accountable== will make much difference in this ==epic struggle==. Replacing Dunkin with Stratton seemed a breakthrough that would enable Madigan to end this impasse with brute force through a veto override early 2017. But looking at 2017, it is questionable whether override power really will end this impasse. Democrats could win every House seat and each member could let Speaker Madigan personally vote their button, but that makes no difference if Rauner continues refusing to sign a tax increase without some compromise on the TA and if Madigan refuses to force a party line tax increase through an override. It seems the only way this impasse ends, even with the new members in 2017, remains a) compromise or b) a successful Madigan veto override that raises taxes, which Democrats should not have to do alone and likely would not do alone because of 2018 considerations. Is there any scenario where Madigan and 71 Democrats increase taxes through an override, without Rauner compromising on the TA and supporting their tax increase? They would be handing 2018 to Republicans. Likewise, is there any situation where Rauner volunteers to support a tax increase without Madigan compromising and supporting some form of the Turnaround Agenda? Rauner would be signing his own political death warrant. I can’t picture either party abandoning the positions they spent 15 months defending without getting something in return. Doing so would be seppuku. - JS Mill - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:51 pm: @Demoralized- you touch on an excellent point. The non-traditional student is becoming a larger segment of the college population every year. Many of them take classes as they go without a specific end date. Schools like CSU EIU and WIU depend on those students for enrollment. - Groundhog Day - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:54 pm: And research has shown that in the ladder up into middle class, the first generation to attend college in a family might only make one or two years, but that the next generation is more likely to graduate. So there is benefit, over time, even for the “drop-outs”. You have to take a long view. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 3:55 pm: - FKA - If the member(s) vote against the state universities and the towns that they reside, saying not to “Vote Accirdingly” with those members… … Bud, that’s messed up. They are voting against Higher Ed, towns in their districts, businesses in text district, and voting to literally ruin towns that they represent. On purpose. Giving a pass for that? No way. With respect, as always. - Downstate - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 4:05 pm: Demoralized, You are correct that my comments were slightly off topic. I am not justifying the squeezing of the universities. But as taxpayers, I believe their performance becomes germane to the long term viability of the institution. Take a look at NEIU. Their graduation rates are atrocious, particularly when broken down on ethnic lines. In particular, African-Americans have a 7.6% chance of graduating in six years. I introduced the dialogue, as I’ve been studying the numbers for the past several weeks and am outraged. - Adjunct Professor - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 4:31 pm: My daughter avoided choosing Illinois school this year. I also wanted to point out that education does not have to be so expensive. Adjunct professors work for almost nothing and often have decades more experience in the real working world. Illinois could consolidate like NY’s SUNY system. The pension system in Illinois is outrageous. Rauner was elected for a reason. The people who are riding the gravy boat don’t want to stop the flow. People need to know how little the state gets for the money it is spending. - olddog - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 4:59 pm: ===Again, it’s not a four year graduation rate at 56%. WIU’s SIX year graduation rate is that low. I think we deserve better.=== According to the National Center for Educational Statistics, the national average six-year graduation rate for students in all public universities is 58 percent. I’d say two points off the national average — in a category that includes more than a few of the best educational institutions in the world — is pretty darn good for a regional school like Western. BTW, there’s a reason why the NCES tracks a six-year (instead of four-year) graduation rate. As state universities have lost government funding, they have had to make up for it by increasing tuition. More and more students can no longer afford to go straight through college and graduate in four years. So NCES has used the six-year rate for several years now. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40 - college_changes_everything - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 5:00 pm: Demoralized, check out this recent report from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center, https://nscresearchcenter.org/signaturereport10-statesupplement/ . Just a few facts from the report as reported on IBHE’s web site: Over 87% of students who enrolled full-time at an Illinois public university had completed a degree within six years. This was seven percentage points higher than the national average (80%). In addition, approximately 5% of students who had not completed were still currently enrolled and pursuing a degree. Illinois was best in the nation in completion rates for students starting part-time at public universities. Its completion rate of 46% was over two times the national average (19%). Illinois was also best in the nation in completion rates for adult learners (defined as students who started college who were older than 24) at public universities and about 50% higher than the national average (63% to 43%). Illinois was third in the nation for full-time community college students completing bachelor’s degrees at four-year colleges. - college_changes_everything - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 5:24 pm: Oops. Meant to address that ^^^ to downstate, not demoralized. My bad. - peon - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 6:53 pm: The Illinois State Museum points the way to what the Governor intends for CSU, WIU, EIU, etc. Cut off funding chaotically, key staff leave, viability lost, institution closes. Governor does nothing serious to prevent destruction. But, CSU, WIU, EIU, etc, closures (or lost accreditation), losses of large charities, and financial harm to vendors are different. if the state museum approach is applied to large entities like this the Governor will lose all political influence over events. - Archpundit - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 7:20 pm: ===comes up for discussion either in the MSM nor I doubt at the University or Board of Trustees level, Not enough. I don’t disagree we need to look at how we support athletics and what the mix should be. I strongly believe in athletic programs, but I’d love to reform how they work and are funded. That said, it’s not a quick fix because often students have passed the fees themselves and to change it you need another vote of the student body. . Also, SIUE, as much as I disagree with the stance, adding D1 helped raise their profile. We have to change the incentives. - Joe M - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 9:26 pm: One can look up the amount that any Div 1 University subsidizes its sports programs at: http://chronicle.com/interactives/ncaa-subsidies-main#id=table_2014 WIU’s athletic subsidization figures are at: http://chronicle.com/interactives/ncaa-subsidies-main#id=details_149772 - Graduated College Student - Thursday, Apr 14, 16 @ 10:16 pm: ===Again, it’s not a four year graduation rate at 56%. WIU’s SIX year graduation rate is that low. I think we deserve better. === FYI, the NATIONAL 6-year graduation rate in 2013 was 59% http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40 /MA: History, Western Illinois University Class of 2014 I didn’t find my education to be deficient. - Tone - Friday, Apr 15, 16 @ 7:58 am: Sounds WIU and CSU are top candidates for an orderly closing. Plenty of other better options. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.