57 Comments - Dread Pirate Roberts - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:46 am: And both sides think their bases will blindly blame the other side with them. That’s why it is important that the citizens of Illinois recognize that this is a failure on all sides - and vote accordingly. - Saluki - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:46 am: That should be etched into a stone tablet and delivered to every legislators door. - The Captain - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:49 am: I think that most legislators recognize that it’s going to take 90 brave souls voting for something they hate that could potentially cost them their political careers to get out of this mess and most of them are desperately hoping to be among the 87 that don’t have to. Also, while it’s clear that both the legislative and executive branches are responsible for this impasse moving the legislative branch forward requires consensus of a two-chamber, two-party body while moving the executive branch forward simply requires one person to put an end to his force-a-crisis-for-leverage plan. - Humane Guy - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:49 am: “When elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers.” Kenyan Proverb - wordslinger - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:50 am: So… how’s about dropping pre-conditions for passing a budget? - AlabamaShake - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:54 am: **“Both sides suffer under the delusion that it’s OK that real people get hurt as long as the other side gets blamed for it.”** You know, Jack Franks is right. But he’s one of those suffering from delusion. He actually thinks that he can make sure people don’t get hurt while refusing to vote for revenue. Franks is one of the most delusional of them all. - pool boy - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:54 am: Agree 100 percent. We have lost the humane in humanity. - Omega Man - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:55 am: Everyone in Illinois please join with your Labor, Community and Religious brothers and sisters at the March and Rally tomorrow (Wednesday, May 18th) to LET RAUNER KNOW THAT HIS POLICIES ARE WRONG FOR ILLINOIS! We will assemble at 11AM at 5th Street & Washington Street in Springfield. From there we will march down 5th Street, circle around the Governor’s Mansion and then head to the Noon Rally in front of the State Capitol on 2nd Street! Hopefully the legislature will hear us and realize that they can be part of the solution! All are welcome to participate! Please come! http://bit.ly/1s8lai7 - Henry Francis - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 9:59 am: Rauner has spent more time and energy demonizing Madigan than he has governing and trying to find solutions. Anyone disagree with this? Madigan is no prince, but c’mon man. - XDNR - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:00 am: Unfortunately, either by design and/or ineptitude Rauner has failed in his responsibility to govern. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:02 am: XDNR, you are exactly the type of person this post is aimed at. I clearly failed. Sleep well. - Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:02 am: Glad to see the thoughts expressed in Rich’s post are being so rapidly taken to heart in the comments section. Yikes. - Earnest - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:03 am: I can cheer for Republicans to get positive reforms passed along with a budget in collaboration with Democrats. I can’t find it in me be be anything but anti-Rauner. He has the power and has had it all along and has used it to intentional destroy higher education and human services. If he ever takes any actions that show he values social services, higher education and a stable, balanced budget for Illinois, I am willing to re-evaluate my stance. - Sangamo Sam - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:03 am: As usual, Kent Redfield offers a good perspective on how we got here. With this cast of irrational characters it’s hard to see how they resolve this shameful situation. http://wuis.org/post/past-due-crisis-can-spur-decisions-are-they-good-decisions#stream/0 - JS Mill - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:04 am: Rich +1 - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:05 am: Rich, where is the LIKE button? I guess more importantly there should be a call to action on this as well. Illinois citizens should be voicing their disgust at each responsible player here and not stop until there is action — meaning, put a budget bill (or “reform” bill) on the floor and allow debate and a vote. - Downstate Dem - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:06 am: Jack Franks is right on target. This Springfield game has gone on too long and both sides need to compromise. I’m a Democrat. When organized labor holds its rally tomorrow in Springfield, I want to hear what their solutions are — not just Rauner bashing. When business interests join with Rauner, I want to hear solutions and compromise. By both sides. Interest groups take a back seat. Parents of school children, social service agencies, average people take a front seat. Lobbyists take a back seat. Egos take a back seat. Yes I am an idealist. - illinoised - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:09 am: I’m with Downstate Dem. - illinois manufacturer - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:15 am: Organized labor has a solution but it fell a few votes short. Both sides have known this for a long time. With all the income heading to the top for the last 30 years and stgnation below one of the most regressive tax states was going to have structural issues. Bur Edgar pkayed politics with it against Netche and Madigan realiated and its been politics and patchwork and a bunc of unworkable or uncontitutional schemes and look over there blame like the pension bill. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:16 am: The actors involved in this are both to blame and are heartless, calculating and far removed from the pain so many are facing. Neither side, publicly, are working to push the narrative of finding common ground that will lead to functioning government. Yes, Rauner can’t get 60 or 30 for some thing, most things, but there are plenty of votes, not leveraged votes, actual “I support this” votes. Otherwise we’d see the overwheling support, on either side, to move someting to end this whole ball game. Yes, Madigan is trying over and over to prove the poison pill death knell. Got it, thanks. Where in the process will cobbled votes, working legislation to build continual good will and trust, and allowing trust within the Branch, no matter the party. The purposeful rhetoric brings out the worst in governing. There needs to be honesty in the process and in accepting truths. There also needs to be a purposeful way to give wins, for the greater good? Not caving, not selling out, but horse trading, and compromising. Find the way. People aren’t leverage. No one gets to decide how much pain is enough, or who should feel pain because of who they are. Enough. - A guy - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:16 am: ===And the minions out there on both sides need to stop cheerleading this war.==== this is so true. I’d simply add that if there were ever a “war” that was unnecessary; this is it. - tobor - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:16 am: Show me the Rauner compromise. - Chicago Cynic - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:17 am: Agree 100000%. I know who I blame but it doesn’t matter at this point. We can fight that out in the fall. For now, we need to FIX THIS MESS and stop hurting people. - Captain Illini - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:22 am: The rest of Jack’s comments as heard on WLS this morning were even more to the point. I’m paraphrasing, but in essence - “a solution to this mess will happen when the rank and file legislators take responsibility for their seat and act in the best interests of their constituents and not just take orders” - something I’ve been saying for a long time… - Honeybear - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:22 am: - I want to hear what their solutions are — not just Rauner bashing.- Tomorrow is totally for Rauner bashing, not solutions. But to quote Alinsky, “The goal of conflict is to bring about a constructive alternative”. I’m just a state worker (caseworker) and an AFSCME steward. But if it were me. Here’s what I’d do. I’d have a salary freeze for all employees with over 5 years. Step increases would stay the same for those with less than 5 years. Keep the health insurance the same. No outsourcing, no privatization, no erosion of labor rights. Basically the same contract except for the freezes and steps. The issue with the steps is that we’ve got to keep the best new employees. Many many senior employees are retiring or going to get out. We’ve got to backfill those folks. You get what you pay for. Already the new ones are poorly paid. Let them move up with the steps. There are the solutions that I can suggest. - Georgeatt - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:24 am: In regard to Rauner’s anti-Union stance: if AFSCME offered Rauner a 4 year no wage increase contract and keep all else the same, I have a feeling Rauner would turn it down. He does not want an agreement; he wants obliteration. - Sir Reel - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:33 am: Blaming someone else is so important because legislators top priority is getting reelected. Was there ever a time it wasn’t? Nah - Annonin' - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:33 am: Somehow leading off with preachin’ from Jack tends to leave the reader movin’ on before gettin’ to whatever message you hoped to deliver better luck next time. - Thoughts Matter - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:33 am: I agree Rich, but I have no solution to offer. We have to get an agreement, but I don’t think we can until the legislators decide they have to go around Rauners TA and implement a budget, any budget. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:37 am: ===Somehow leading off with preachin’ from Jack tends to leave the reader movin’ on=== LOL You got me there. Agreed. However, the message is still spot on. - A guy - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:37 am: ==But to quote Alinsky, “The goal of conflict is to bring about a constructive alternative”.=== Ms. Bear, I’m not sure quoting Saul is a big help to you. - Almost the Weekend - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:38 am: I would add that all of the leaders are so isolated from what is actually happening to the most vulnerable they have no idea how much harm they are inflicting. I highly doubt any close family member amongst the leaders are dependent on a social service program paid for by the budget. - Triple fat - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:39 am: Personally I feel it is irrational to demand non-budgetary, let us all return to the gilded age reformswhich are totally malicious in nature, as a precondition to budget negotiations. Rich, chide me if you want… But it is also irrational to espouse a false equivalence narrative. There is only one actor holding the budget hostage. Asking the Governor to take a reasonable approach involving revenue along with cuts, in my eyes, makes the Speaker far less culpable in this travisty. When is it rational to agree to irrational demands and preconditions? - Omega Man - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:42 am: Tomorrow’s Rally is not just Rauner bashing. The main point is to communicate to the legislature that with just a few more votes, they can start to make a difference. Just one example is the upcoming opportunity to override the veto of HB580. Doing that would send both parties back to the bargaining table (where AFSCME has wanted to be all along). This would get rid of Rauner’s bogus attempt to force an impasse! The pressure to be “reasonable” would FORCE BOTH SIDES TO BARGAIN IN GOOD FAITH! Failing to bargain in good faith would be looked on unfavorably by an arbitrator (if either side called for it) and could result in the “bad bargainer” losing out, whatever side that was. That being said, I agree with Honeybear’s ideas for the AFSCME bargaining committee. - DGD - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:47 am: **Ms. Bear, I’m not sure quoting Saul is a big help to you.** +1 - Rod - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:51 am: Should Madigan resist any and all attempts to reform collective bargaining, workers’ compensation and prevailing wage in relation to a new state budget? Or should he try and find a way to compromise? Apparently Rich you believe that the majority of us who voted yes are culpable for prolonging the budget crisis. That’s interesting. Because it was you Rich who posed the question in such an extreme way, it’s your right it’s your blog after all. But I think there are a lot of us, and not just unionized state workers by the way, who have looked at the language from the Governor that was posted on this blog on “reform” of collective bargaining and realize it would be at the discretion of the governmental body to fully ban bargaining or limit its scope in some way. The Governor has been very clear up to now that he believes governmental bodies should have full authority to contain their labor costs using this supposed reform mechanism. If he has withdrawn that proposal and is willing for example to entertain the idea of salary and benefit increase limitations linked in a relevant way to the CPI for these public sector workers please let us know, because as far as I know he has not. I suspect the vote total would be different had Governor Rauner publicly entertained a less dramatic position. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:03 am: ==it’s OK that real people get hurt as long as the other side gets blamed for it== He is close. Some in both parties believe it is more than OK. Some believe it is actually GOOD. Good for themselves, good for their party, good for their grip on power. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:15 am: ==I highly doubt any close family member amongst the leaders are dependent on a social service program paid for by the budget.== Particularly in the wealthy Rauner and Madigan families. The two at the center of this ==war== are perhaps the most removed from its consequences. - Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:16 am: ===XDNR, you are exactly the type of person this post is aimed at. I clearly failed. Sleep well.=== I am trying really hard to understand the point here. Yeah, they all stink at their job. So now I have to point out that Mike Madigan stinks at his job every time I say Censored stinks at his job? Can we just assume Mike Madigan stinks because I don’t want to be obliged to point it out every time Censored says or does something I think is immoral, unseemly, untrustworthy, or politically inept. - @MisterJayEm - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:17 am: “Ms. Bear, I’m not sure quoting Saul is a big help to you.” ad ho·mi·nem adj. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. A logical fallacy. – MrJM - Mama - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:20 am: == XDNR - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:00 am:== XDNR +1 - Georg Sande - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:21 am: Jack Franks. Lol. - Anon221 - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:27 am: There is compromise, and there is capitulation. Rauner wants capitulation. And, I did vote for Madigan to compromise, but I do not expect him or any other legislator to capitulate when that may not in the best interests of their constituents. Poison pills are capitulation. - Mama - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:28 am: ==Downstate Dem - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:06 am:== “When organized labor holds its rally tomorrow in Springfield, I want to hear what their solutions are — not just Rauner bashing. When business interests join with Rauner, I want to hear solutions and compromise. By both sides.” Downstate Dem, this would help a lot. - Mama - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:51 am: == Omega Man - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 10:42 am:== “Tomorrow’s Rally is not just Rauner bashing. The main point is to communicate to the legislature that with just a few more votes, they can start to make a difference. Just one example is the upcoming opportunity to override the veto of HB580″ Honey Bear & Omega Man, The message at the rally should include the message of passing a budget that ensures the state workers will get paid for their work. The courts can not help you to get paid after July 1st. - Mama - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:53 am: - Anon221 - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:27 am: Anon221 +1 - DGD - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 11:58 am: **ad ho·mi·nem adj. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. A logical fallacy.** Perhaps you are looking in the mirror when referencing ad ho·mi·nem ? HB did in fact quote Alinsky, and Alinsky is a negative anywhere this side of Bernie Sanders. - Ghost - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 12:29 pm: Rich with all do respect pick a lane. Walking down the middle and shouting at both sides to do something aint gonna do anything. The main issue is the reform agenda. Declaring compromise is a magic beans call. Pick a path, describe actual comprmise, or clarify why the anti union stuff should be accepted in exchnage for a budget…. which was rauners declared goal, hurt the poor tomforce anti union change. Here ill start, agree to the no strike provision, BUT add in that any financial increase must be approved by the GA to be in effect. absent GA approval, the contract remains status quo, no colas or steps, no increase in health insurance or other costs. so it goes to arb, if the arb supports the union, and grants economic increases the. it goes to the GA to approve the awrd. if its not approved the contracts stands as in and is frozen - Omega Man - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 12:40 pm: To “Mama”, I’m sure that lots of different viewpoints will be present at the Rally, including a call to keep paying state employees after July 1. If (for some insane reason) all state employee paychecks stopped after July 1st, it would be the equivalent of a lockout of almost all state employees and it might actually help get things resolved quicker. - Honeybear - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 12:42 pm: I love Saul Alinsky! Rules for Radicals taught me so much. DGD you should now that the “rules” can be used by conservatives just as easy. As a matter of fact the book was required reading at some REALLY conservative think tank. Try it you’d like it. Pick up a copy. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 12:44 pm: ===Pick a path, describe actual comprmise, or clarify why the anti union stuff should be accepted in exchnage for a budge=== I have been proposing specific solutions for months. So, with all due respect, bite me. - Honeybear - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 12:49 pm: I’m sorry I spoke for others. My bad. I will be Rauner bashing tomorrow. But my main focus actually is introducing my union sisters and brothers and allies to Katie Stuart who is taking on Dwight Kay in the 112th. I want my forces to meet her and be inspired by her and her message (since she’s speaking tomorrow) That’s goal number one. My people are going to be wearing out shoes for her and it happens pretty naturally once you get to meet her. We’ve got a great candidate. Goal number two is getting time with my activist sisters and brothers from Leadership School to discuss our tactics and share ideas. It’s going to be an incredibly busy day. It’s so much nicer to coordinate in person then online. - @MisterJayEm - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 12:59 pm: You’re suggesting that people read Alinsky’s books before judging them, Honeybear? Madness!!1! – MrJM - Thunder Fred - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 1:26 pm: The Dunning-Kruger super posters prove the point once again. - A guy - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 1:49 pm: Mr.JM, you’ve taken a break from brief thoughtfulness today. I’m occasionally amused by you. It’s only today that I’m disappointed. I’ve read the books. Had to force myself to in order to complete a class. Quoting him is not a winner. Especially to folks on the fence. - Honeybear - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 2:03 pm: Oh come on, A Guy. How could you argue with * RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. * RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.) * RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.) Gold solid gold - Honeybear - Tuesday, May 17, 16 @ 2:05 pm: Rauner is violating rule 11. He doesn’t have a constructive alternative. He has a destructive alternative. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.