Oy
Friday, Jul 8, 2016 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Sorry for the delay this morning. Like many of you, I was up late last night watching the horror unfold in Dallas and had trouble getting going today. Use this as an open thread while I pull some posts together, but do your best to keep your anger to a minimum, please.
…Adding… From the governor…
“The ambush attack on Dallas police officers is outrageous. The men and women who work every day to protect everyone, including those exercising their right to free speech, deserve our respect and support. The shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota that led to last night’s protests, are deeply distressing. All of these events speak to the lack of unity and trust in many of our communities and underscores the urgency in addressing that lack of trust. Diana and I pray that the victims, their families, and our entire country find strength, healing and peace to rebuild trust among our neighbors and communities.”
- Ronnie Coffee - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:32 am:
The events that are going on lately are not good. The unspoken anger that people have for each other is reaching the tipping point. Rich vs Poor, educated vs uneducated, black vs white, immigrant vs non immigrant, and here in IL union vs right to work fights are hurting business and peace. Will the adults of the world stand up and offer love and peace?
- Downstate GOP Faithless - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:33 am:
It seems today would be a good day for reflection and sorrow, as opposed to worrying about the goings on of Illinois’ political landscape.
- Trolling Troll - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:36 am:
Thoughts and prayers to all.
- oldman - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:37 am:
Tragic situation. I just saw Joe Walsh’s comments about this being the start of a war. Pathetic and sickening.
- Honeybear - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:37 am:
–Will the adults of the world stand up and offer love and peace?–
Unfortunately I think that’s impossible until we digest and process the myriad oppressions that our nation has been stuffing away and not dealing with. This is karma coming for us. We’ve got to face it and process it. To quote Dr. West “justice is what love looks like in public”.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:43 am:
I’ve already deleted three comments. Banishments will commence.
- illini - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:43 am:
“Will the adults of the world stand up and offer love and peace?”
I wish I could be optimistic, but the reality is that the adults seem to be the ones that foment and promote the distrust and hatred we see today.
My prayers for all the victims and their families.
- BigDoggie - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:43 am:
Prayers for everyone affected and involved, and for police officers everywhere. oldman, as for the Walsh thing, what we really need these days is for the news media to stop idiotic things like Walsh’s comments to the top of the news cycle constantly. Unfortunately the bad and controversial stuff sells, so that’s what we hear nonstop. But it is the last thing we need at times like this.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:45 am:
BigDoggie is onto something here. Joe Walsh is an ex-congressman who is now an absolute nothing. I decided this morning to unfollow him on my Twitter feed. Gonna do that now.
- Illinois Bob - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:45 am:
I think they’ll find out a few things as the investigation proceeds:
1) The plans for this were well in this were well in the works prior to the tragedies in Minnesota and Baton Rouge.
2) The shooters were well trained and have killed before.
3) The unfair and incendiary remarks from the Minnesota Governor played no role in this, although they were incredibly prejudiced, ill-informed and ill-conceived.
4)There is a fairly large support group behind the shooters, and the group responsible will come as a surprise to many.
One of the often ignored fears of terrorism in the US is the damage that could be done by a small number of people against soft targets like this.
There are likely hundreds, if not thousands, of people willing to commit heinous acts such as those in San Bernadino, Ft Hood, Orlando and now Dallas. How do we prevent and deter these acts?
I really hope Obama is up to that task, but based on the past I’m not optimistic…
- wordslinger - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:48 am:
–It seems today would be a good day for reflection and sorrow,…–
If that’s the case, there have been 1,002 such days for reflection and sorrow on mass shootings in the United States since Sandy Hook on Dec. 14, 2012.
“Reflecting,” on what, exactly? What does that, or “thoughts and prayers,” actually mean? These massacres are uniquely common, regular occurrences in the United States.
The fact is, any nuts or nihilists or terrorists or losers can easily arm themselves to the teeth in this country, legally or illegally, pick up as much load as they want at WalMart and start spraying at the location and time of their choosing.
That’s the price to be paid for a certain kind of “freedom” and “liberty,” we’re told. You just hope every day it’s not one of your loved ones paying the price.
But someone’s loved ones will be praying the price again, very soon.
- Diogenes in DuPage - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:48 am:
Our national political polarization has reached a point where too many of us are “on edge.” I doubt that we can reduce the violence until we reduce the polarization. “Seek first to understand, then be understood.”
I fear we must experience much more bloodshed until we come to our senses.
- Juvenal - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:48 am:
See “Unsolicited advice.”
Tired of officeholders offering nothing more than their prayers.
Zika virus? How about gun violence first.
Govern.
- Wensicia - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:49 am:
The Governor’s statement is correct; there is a lack of unity and trust among many Americans, but our nation and state leaders need to recognize they mirror the same in their rhetoric and negative responses for their political opposites after each violent episode. They need to lead by example. They need to show us we can live and work together despite our political and cultural differences. Please.
My sincere condolences to the Dallas police officers and their families.
- illini - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:49 am:
Bob - I’m glad you are so prescient. No comment to this now or later.
- wordslinger - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:52 am:
–I really hope Obama is up to that task,–
Your baseless speculation aside, what is the task at hand, specifically, Bob.
- illinoised - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:53 am:
We all need to be up to the task. The nation is divided. Add in easy access to weaponry and you have a recipe for what we are seeing in recent days. Everyone must be willing to look inside themselves and do their part to change.
- Illinois Bob - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:53 am:
This is not the time for the activists to incite anti-police hatred as has been happening so far. I haven’t read any twitter from Walsh, but what I’ve heard from the activists n the media has to be at least as damaging. Both sides need to cool off here before spouting off, but given the hatred and selfishness on both sides I doubt that will happen. Hatred and racism sells, sad to say.
- AlfondoGonz - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:55 am:
Sometimes I think it is the messaging that needs to be changed to improve race relations. So often we hear people comment about the positive things different communities share: love for family, faith, sports, ambition…
Perhaps it is time we unite around a less positive reality: life is hard. Life is very hard for people of every persuasion. We all suffer heartbreak and sorrow and we all lose things that we hold dearest. If we, as a people, can look towards others that we don’t understand with the knowledge that their lives are hard and their wants, for the most part, are minimal, perhaps then we will have a bit more empathy.
It is also time to stop painting in broad strokes. Not everyone who shares a trait with someone else wants to be blamed if that someone else is a bad person.
It all begins at the smallest gatherings, though. From the home, to the block, to the neighborhood, to the city, to the state, to the region, to the country. We have to tie ourselves together from the inside or it is bound to collapse continuously.
Be good to one another.
- Aldyth - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:55 am:
Thoughts and prayers don’t seem to be preventing violence, as far as I am able to observe.
I’d rather our country made it difficult for anyone to be able to get their hands on weapons designed for the military - designed to kill human beings rapidly and efficiently from a distance. I’d like to see the ammunition for those death makers stop being readily available.
I remember the summer of 1968. I thought we learned something from it.
- Diogenes in DuPage - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:55 am:
===That’s the price to be paid for a certain kind of “freedom” and “liberty,” we’re told. You just hope every day it’s not one of your loved ones paying the price.=== @Wordslinger
I continued to be amazed how Wordslinger can frame most issues on this blog. Thank you.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:56 am:
===I haven’t read any twitter from Walsh, but what I’ve heard from the activists n the media has to be at least as damaging.===
It’s not. Please stop.
Stop.
- Allen D - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:56 am:
nothing more than can be added to the sorrow and horror of the evening and the ever growing unrest in our country other than our POTUS make assertions before investigation have even begun…
I hang my head today and have fear at what may grow in the weeks to come, and wish everyone could just take a cold shower and wake up and see what we are doing to each other.
As a nation we are tearing each other apart, from the very fabric the binds us together. I honestly am shaken to read and or watch the news and explain it to my grandchildren ( as their parents are oblivious and do not watch anything that unfolds unless it directly affects them right now.)
We are so sad right now - - - -
- PMcP - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:59 am:
We’ve offered prayers and condolences for decades, perhaps a new strategy is in order?
Look, if the US wants to re-create the wheel to fix gun violence and the issues that perpetuate these tragedies that’s fine. But every other comparable nation has successfully dealt with the type of violence that causes and results from these events. It’s about time there’s a concerted effort to stop gun violence against EVERYONE.
- Flynn's mom - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 9:59 am:
This is one time I wholeheartedly agree with the governor. Prayers for all who were killed or injured and prayers for peace in our country.
- State Worker - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:02 am:
What one man’s truth is to another “unfair and incendiary”.
- cover - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:02 am:
= Will the adults of the world stand up and offer love and peace? =
Yesterday was Ringo’s birthday, and that’s exactly what he asked for. Too bad it’s not what he got.
Also, my daughter showed me that horrible tweet from Joe Walsh last night. I wish everyone would treat him as completely toxic from now on.
- Jocko - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:03 am:
I’m beyond tired of partisan politics and news as entertainment…distracting at best and fear/hate mongering at worst.
Rather than sulk at the post-Newtown inactivity, I’m hopeful to see what happens in Hawaii.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:03 am:
I can only imagine that the horror, fear, and pain that the national consciousness has felt the last three mornings is what the segregated and unconnected communities on the south and west sides of our state’s largest city feels every day.
I hope we can use our horror, fear, and pain to increase our individual and collective empathy going forward. Gotta be the only way to solve our problems.
- Chicago 20 - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:05 am:
People are frustrated.
There is very little trust.
Programs are cut and eliminated to save money.
Things are getting worse, not better.
Many are responsible, few are accountable.
- Diogenes in DuPage - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:06 am:
And the man asked God, “Why didn’t you answer my prayers?”
And God responded, “I gave your the ability, but you insisted upon just praying.”
- illinois manufacturer - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:06 am:
I am worried we will find it was a certain Middle Eastern outfit that has understood all our tensions far better than we have understood theirs because this looks like something we have not seen before.
- illini - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:07 am:
Aldyth - “I remember the summer of 1968. I thought we learned something from it.”
My memories go back that far as well. To the song - When will they ever learn!
- Give Me A Break - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:07 am:
I keep asking myself what the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has to do with allowing people to own weapons not designed for hunting game but designed for no other purpose than killing large numbers of humans as fast a possible.
We don’t allow people to own and fly F15 fighters equipped with bombs so why do we allow military weapons to be purchased by the public?
- Jose Abreu's next homer - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:08 am:
sorry, I was late to the game on Walsh. Busy day at work. Feel free to delete Rich
- Illinois Bob - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:08 am:
@OW
“No justice no peace”
Figure out what that means, OW, and maybe you’ll get a clue about what’s going on. It’s not about peaceful protest.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:13 am:
===No justice no peace”
Figure out what that means, OW, and maybe you’ll get a clue about what’s going on. It’s not about peaceful protest.===
So you agree with Joe Walsh, the former Congressman. Good to know.
The officers in Dallas were taking selfies with those marching, showing solidarity, and frankly, the officers weren’t in any way combative with the marchers, and the marchers were appreciative of the officers.
Please stop. Stop.
- Aldyth - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:14 am:
Perhaps the best way to deal with a former Congressman Who Shall Not Be Named is to ignore his existence. That would frustrate him to no end.
- Marvin Gaye's Ghost - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:15 am:
Mother, mother
There’s too many of you crying
Brother, brother, brother
There’s far too many of you dying
You know we’ve got to find a way
To bring some lovin’ here today, eheh
- wordslinger - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:15 am:
–I hang my head today and have fear at what may grow in the weeks to come, and wish everyone could just take a cold shower and wake up and see what we are doing to each other.–
What are you talking about, “everyone” and “we?”
To appease a vocal, small minority of one-issue gun owners, this country makes it easy as can be for the fraction of the fraction of whack jobs who are willing to commit mass murder to load up.
These maudlin, weepy, generic comments only serve to ignore that fact.
- Honeybear - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:15 am:
The most important concept I learned in seminary is the reactions to helplessness/shame as understood through the lens of the Chicago school of self psychology. It goes briefly like this.
When we are infants one of the first emotions that develops is helplessness. We’re hungry and we cry out for nourishment. What develops quickly and deeply are two basic reactions to helplessness, lashing out or lashing in. Overtime prolonged exposure can ossify into shame, a profound helplessness. What we are seeing all around are people both lashing out and lashing in. The Orlando shooter lashing out at the LGBT community. Trace it back to shame/helplessness. Poor uneducated Trump supporters, lashing out. Trace it back to shame/helplessness. The Dallas snipers, lashing out. Trace it back to shame/helplessness. Those who lash in feel profoundly that they don’t deserve nourishment. PTSD from combat can cause this and we see a huge increase in military suicide.
We must address, process, and do something about the most common causes of shame/helplessness. We need to address poverty, racial justice, income inequality, we know the list. But we have to stop discussing and educating and DO SOMETHING. It makes Rauners damage all the more egregious. We have to help people. We have to do things to help people.
Trace the shame/helplessness and address it at the root.
- Snucka - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:18 am:
Violence against officers is wrong. Police also kill black men in disturbing numbers. Both can be true. Both can be addressed.
- Publius - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:19 am:
All I have to say is that I am in shock with this horrible tragedy and the events that occurred in the last few weeks. Now is the time to unite and not be divided. I said this online elsewhere but this year is reminding me of 1968.
- AnonymousOne - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:19 am:
This lack of unity has been cultivated carefully and willfully. Everyone’s in their corner, identifying themselves as a specific and special group. No wonder it’s an us against them mentality. Politicians love pandering to special groups for the almighty vote. And this divisive attitude creates the problems we’re seeing. We are one nation made up of individuals to be sure. But we need to see ourselves as Americans first working together. The more the differences amongst us are played up, the more hostilities toward each other increase.
- MrJM - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:20 am:
May I suggest that we each, as individuals, ask ourselves:
1) How have I, personally, been part of the problem?
And then ask:
2) How can I, personally, contribute to a solution?
I would further suggest that you cannot intelligently answer the second question until you’ve honestly answered the first.
– MrJM
- Snucka - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:24 am:
On another note, it seems like the Dallas PD is handling this really well. Usually, we would have pictures and names of the suspects, and everyone would be drawing conclusions before the investigation even really begins. It seems like they’ve got their stuff together, and it’s keeping the speculation under control a bit.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:27 am:
This link goes a long way to explaining where we were to where we are today.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/oct/28/facebook-posts/viral-meme-says-1956-republican-platform-was-prett/
- RNUG - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:29 am:
As I see it, a major part of the problem is authorities and perceived authority figures go off half cocked (no pun intended) without knowing all the facts about a given incident. We’ve seen too many rushes to judgement that were later proven wrong.
The people in charge should be trying to de-escalate things. It would be much better if the authority figures on all sides simply expressed condolences, call for calm, and pledge a full investigation into what happened instead of immediately condemning one side or the other or recommending actions that may cause further incidents.
- southern16 - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:30 am:
Seems sad and a bit foreboding that more than a few of us ate likening this time to the summer of 68 and feeling an almost sense of deja vu. Sure feels eerily similar to me.
- Original Rambler - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:32 am:
First Joe Walsh goes over the top - even for him - and then Illinois Bob decides to walk way out on a limb. I anticipate seeing most of IB’s speculations debunked throughout the day today. And your 9:53 post is downright ignorant as well as inciteful. SMH.
Just a sad day all around. I do believe we are better than this. And props to Rich for dumping Walsh. I anticipate doing some un-following when this is done.
- Demoralized - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:32 am:
==Please stop. Stop.==
Indeed. And perhaps the best way to do that is to finally, once and for all, ignore him. If nobody responds to his off the wall diatribes and constant antagonism perhaps he’ll go away. One can hope.
To the post -
This was a horrible tragedy committed by a madman (or madmen). As with all things, people are now trying to turn this into commentary on particular groups of people. We’ve got racist comments from the likes of Walsh and I’ve seen numerous other comment sections on news sites with equally racist commentary. Enough is enough.
- wordslinger - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:33 am:
After he’s done praying, perhaps the governor could address an enforcement plan to ensure that the 50,000 Illinoisans found in a court of law, under the law, to be mentally unfit to possess guns are no longer armed.
“Faithful execution of the laws” is a Constitutionally fundamental power and responsibility of his office.
I bring this up after every mass shooting, so…. lots of times, with many more to come, no doubt.
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/the-watchdogs-police-failing-to-ensure-mentally-ill-dont-have-guns/
- Allen D - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:49 am:
==Honeybear - Friday July 8,16 @ 10:15 — Poor uneducated Trump supporters, lashing out.
That is pathetic and offensive to lump half of the country in with these shooters who ambush and kill people like this. I may have had my differences along party lines but never to these extremes to lump liberals in with actions like this…. that is an extreme insult that I would not have expected from you.
- Federalist - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:56 am:
The MSM loves headlines and many have their own separate political agenda to promote those headlines. This only makes for more bad situations, Of Course, you can’t stop the media from doing what they do as that would be even more dangerous.
Obama does not help by going on to national TV with selected incidents that he personally views as being more reprehensible than others. I could give him a laundry list of issues related to the murder of people that are quite important and that he would chose to exclude. He always tries to give a little sermon and is often judge and jury before all facts come to bear.
Each situation, his list and mine, should stand on its own merits/demerits. Too often the situations are very different and more complex than what we read or know about. Obama should, as a supposed legal scholar, know this.
- Zoe - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:59 am:
exactly:
- RNUG - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:29 am:
As I see it, a major part of the problem is authorities and perceived authority figures go off half cocked (no pun intended) without knowing all the facts about a given incident. We’ve seen too many rushes to judgement that were later proven wrong.
The people in charge should be trying to de-escalate things. It would be much better if the authority figures on all sides simply expressed condolences, call for calm, and pledge a full investigation into what happened instead of immediately condemning one side or the other or recommending actions that may cause further incidents.
- Federalist - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:13 am:
“It would be much better if the authority figures on all sides simply expressed condolences, call for calm, and pledge a full investigation into what happened instead of immediately condemning one side or the other or recommending actions that may cause further incidents.”
Yes it would, But that does not make headlines or advance an agenda. Little or no mention is being made of the fact that the officer who shot the person was Hispanic. Today even after this situation that fact will basically be glossed over or not covered by much of the MSM.
Let’s be clear, the implication given out by the media was that this was a White- non Hispanic officer who shot the Black. Does anyone seriously doubt that wss the impression portrayed and absorbed by the public?
Did Obama know this before he want to TV. If so, would he have chose that incident for his televised event. You be the judge.
- steward - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:16 am:
I believe wordslinger has been extremely on point in this thread.
More generally, let’s focus on getting efficient instruments of death out of the reach of the general public. We regulate access to so many other efficient means of killing, that it is mind boggling to me that a high powered high capacity rifle is given this special sacred place in our culture, society, and law.
- illini - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:20 am:
Allen - you are quickly becoming another Bob.
There are those of us on this site that have learned when to reply and when to ignore the openings you and others seem to try to give those of us that respect this site. I will not acknowledge you by replying to the “points” you are desperately trying to make.
- gdub - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:32 am:
Guns again….
C’mon people, EASY access to guns are a problem! Conceal and Carry IS NOT the answer and the second amendment didn’t give you the right to, the NRA lobby did. I can’t believe our supposedly “Christian” nation allows people access to guns that are built for one purpose; to kill people. SERIOUSLY!?
- Mama - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:34 am:
- Federalist - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:13 am==
“Little or no mention is being made of the fact that the officer who shot the person was Hispanic. Today even after this situation that fact will basically be glossed over or not covered by much of the MSM.”
Federalist, the last thing they need is to make this about racism! No one should care that the police officer was an Hispanic heritage or an Irish or German heritage, etc..
Our police officers all over the country need better training in handling stressful situations. Period.
- Mama - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:40 am:
Violence against officers is wrong. Period.
It is also wrong for police officers to kill people based on their color.
Americans need to learn to respect one another again. The media needs to rise up an do a better job in helping to defuse violent situations.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:40 am:
Discipline and punish rogue cops whenever it is appropriate.
Stop arguing that every convicted felon was arrested, tried and imprisoned solely due to societal or institutional racism.
Politicians: stop grandstanding and expressing opinions before investigations and court processes are completed.
Mobs want immediate action, trials take time. While not perfect the justice process usually works, but it takes time.
- lake county democrat - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:42 am:
Michael Brown’s parents had the right idea: focus on something productive that might save lives and lower tensions: mandatory body cameras. I would add there should be a presumption of guilt if a police officer kills someone and the camera isn’t functioning - the odds of that happening are very slight and conceivably on the chance the malfunction wasn’t caused by the officer there may be a way of establishing it.
- Honeybear - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:43 am:
Allen D - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:49 am:
Your right, my bad. Apologies to Trump supporters. I was writing too fast and you were right to call me on it. I hope I got my point across despite my error. Thank you for calling me to the mat Allen D.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 12:05 pm:
@11:40 a.m. “Discipline and punish rogue cops whenever it is appropriate.” How about charge and convict police who break the law or kill people?
The Castile killing in Minnesota was carried out under the cover of “Duty to Inform” provisions in Minnesota’s concealed carry law. Duty to Inform with criminal penalties was placed in Illinois’ carry bill by the NRA, so be careful, because it will happen here.
If memory serves, the only Reps. who opposed DTI were Chicago area Black Caucus members like Will Davis. When Davis was debating conealed carry bill sponsor Brandon Phelps on the house floor in 2013 about the dangers of DTI and profiling for blacks, Phelps said, “It hasn’t been a problem in other states.” (!!)
- Robert the Bruce - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 12:05 pm:
1) Mandatory body cameras
2) Citizen review boards
3) No “Cool down/get your story straight” period for police officers that others don’t enjoy
4) De-escalation training
5) End the Blue Code of Silence, which enables abusive officers to become more violent.
It’s not this simple, I know, but there are tangible actions that police departments can take.
- Federalist - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 12:14 pm:
Mama,
I agree.
But certainly you are political enough to notice that is not what is being done and when Obama goes on the air it is always one agenda among many types of murders that occur in this violent nation.
So no I don’t need any your insight or mini lecture.
- Federalist - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 12:16 pm:
@Robert the Bruce.
You have outlined a number of really good proposals. This needs to be explored at the state and local level immediately.
- Groucho - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 12:37 pm:
There’s battle lines being drawn
Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
All through the day, I me mine I me mine, I me mine All through the night, I me mine I me mine, I me mine.
- Federalist - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 12:53 pm:
@ Honeybear - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 11:43 am:
Allen D - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 10:49 am:
Your right, my bad. Apologies to Trump supporters. I was writing too fast and you were right to call me on it. I hope I got my point across despite my error. Thank you for calling me to the mat Allen D.
Congratulations for having the courage and decency to publicly backtrack your statement. Not very often done.
- cardsmama - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 12:56 pm:
No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend’s
Or of thine own were:
Any man’s death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
John Donne
:-(
- cardsmama - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 12:57 pm:
“Europe” is easily replaceable in this poem…
- Southwest - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 1:11 pm:
Robert Bruce did have good suggestions but it was one sided. What proposals are there for the people who don’t respect the police? Walsh’s tweet was despicable and he should be called out, but he’s was the only stupid “conservative” post in my feed. I read so many tweets calling for the death of policemen that I was sickened. Two hours ago a ballwin policeman was shot on the neck during a traffic stop. And please, I’m not willing to unarm to stop the criminals from getting guns.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 1:13 pm:
I-Bob: It might be worthwhile for you to take a week, come back to your comments today, and review your initial reactions to see if they turn out to be accurate. Just a suggestion. We often dive in with passion, before we can see the bottom clearly.
Been heartbroken over all of these related events over the past three days. No answers right now. Only a belief that we must focus more on the human beings, and their losses, more than on general concepts.
Rich: Good job as always.
- Honeybear - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 1:21 pm:
Thank you for acknowledging that Federalist. I try to apologize for my failings. I also try to correct my mistakes and I learned something in that transaction. I screw up quite a bit with my casework processing on these old legacy systems. At work I get a lot of practice apologizing. My coworkers now tease me playfully when they have to mop up the blood, but because they now I am sincere and try to correct, they grumble, throw some snark shade, (gently, I’m rather sensitive as you know) then help me process it. But the dynamic has changed from when I got here. They would publically rebuke, demean, and refuse to help. Now they hold me up, realize that I didn’t get the training, and keep helping me to learn. My coworker across the way says “mmmmm,mmmmm,mmmmm, baby you just can’t get you no act right today, come here and let me show you.”
Here’s my learning in light of the times we live in, hubris will get you alone and hated. Sincerity will eventually win. And don’t stop trying to improve yourself and help others.
Humility
Sincerity
Perseverance
- Huh? - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 1:48 pm:
We have lost the ability for civil discourse. When people can speak without fear of being attacked. What ever happened to agreeing to disagree?
We have lost respect and deference for people in positions of authority. When a US Representative feels free to call the President a liar during the State of the Union address.
We have lost respect for others. When everyone is viewed with suspicion, that innocent motions are viewed as hostile.
People are feeling helpless about their lives because they don’t feel cared for by friends, family or their government.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 2:04 pm:
@Robert the Bruce- 1) Mandatory body cameras. Great idea! When the SB1304 Body Cam bill passed last year, police unions opposed criminal penalties for deleting footage, and got it bargained down to a “departmental charge.” Basically encouraging cops to destroy evidence.
5) End the Blue Code of Silence, which enables abusive officers to become more violent. Great idea! Pass a bill making it a crime for police NOT to report criminal conduct on the part of other officers.
Require police to carry their own liability insurance and allow units of government NOT to pay criminal or civil lawyer bills for police, and 90% of criminal police shootings go away overnight.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 2:37 pm:
The media needs to step up its game also, but no one calls the press out. Give us the facts!
Seriously, in order to find detailed coverage, why is it necessary to read foreign newspaper reports?
The shooting in Minnesota must be fully investigated. The viral video is extremely disturbing and raises many questions about the officer’s conduct. But after reading a news report from Europe, why was the motorist driving a vehicle? He had sixty plus arrests and forty plus convictions. How did he have a firearm given his background?
I am not minimizing the need for an investigation of the police officer, but Governor Dayton when a patrol car sees this guy’s plate number on the computer how do they not make a traffic stop?
- Amalia - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 2:56 pm:
talk about “people tone it down, ” the horrible incidents of this week show that. there were a few heroes last night from that march….a couple of young men come to mind with their balanced discussion….but “our people are being hunted.” no, that would be the officer in the midst of the pillars yesterday being literally hunted. “police are just doing their job” nope, killing unarmed citizens who have not done anything is not that. the media has taken “hands up don’t shoot” hook line and sinker. that victim started as a convenience store robber and progressed to almost killing a cop before he met his demise because he tried to take the gun. it makes other cases look problematic when they are not and police are at fault. the rhetoric of some of the BLM folks is ridiculous, pigs in a blanket, etc. meanwhile, over on Second City Cop, they are blaming the Dallas tragedy on the President. Yep, because he weighed in with a comment on Minn and Biloxi. Now part of his statement I was not crazy about, but come on, Obama is not to blame for the killing of police officers. that 25 year old idiot apparently is. someone dies, express condolences on their loss, end your press conference, and call another press conference if you want to get global with both “sides” of the whole issue. each victim group wants to hear themselves mourned on their own. yes we have to approach wholeness, but start by mourning and honoring apart. and then cops and community, figure out how big weapons and clips can stay out of the hands of people who would turn them on the police. stayed up way too late and cried with a former police friend this am. tragic.
- illini - Friday, Jul 8, 16 @ 4:12 pm:
Developing story from the Metro East - have been listening on KMOX. Apparently a St. Louis County officer was ambushed and shot ( in stable but very critical condition according to reports ).
This happened in Ballwin MO at a traffic stop. Very safe, conservative part of west St.
Louis County. According to the national news there have apparently been 3 other ambush attacks on police.
I have 2 family members that are ISP ( not in uniform or handling these kinds of calls ) but it does concern me.
ALL THIS MADNESS HAS TO STOP. THIS GOES BOTH WAYS!