* Dusty Rhodes writes about one of the most over-looked issues of the impasse - the real danger to university accreditation…
During the recent state budget impasse, Illinois colleges and universities have been forced to scrape by without state funding, except for stop gap money designed to keep them open through the fall semester. But that may not satisfy accreditation agencies. James Applegate, director of the Illinois Board of Higher Education, says the Higher Learning Commission may just home in on the fact that Illinois schools are missing what schools in other states have: a solid budget.
“As grateful as we are for getting money so we can stay open — a half year budget — when they read it at the regional accreditor office, that aggravates the problem, because they’re saying, ‘They couldn’t even get a full year budget together,’ ” Applegate says. “Because the accreditors are not looking at next semester or even next year. They’re saying: Are institutions financially able to serve students they enroll for four or five years? And I would not be surprised if we continue to garner attention from regional accreditors.”
The IBHE is proposing a plan where schools would promise certain outcomes in exchange for the state providing a basic level of funding for three years.
Accreditation is necessary because if a school doesn’t have it, students cannot get federal students loans and their credits won’t transfer to other accredited institutions.
* This next Applegate quote is all over the place, but check it out anyway…
“Obviously it’s welcomed in the sense that it helps our institutions stay open into the fall, but it certainly is not the solution. This doesn’t help us in terms of being able to plan for an academic year. It leaves us in a state of flux and uncertainty, and even with this funding and the April funding, if you were to look at what the higher ed system received in (fiscal year) ‘15, before all this started, even after that budget was cut toward the end of the year, and you just said, ‘Well let’s assume a reasonable budget would be in (fy) ‘16 and (fy) ‘17 we had that ‘15.’ So ‘15 times two. The current amount of money that’s been given to our universities is less than half of that. So this is supposed to carry them for 18 months. Then it is good that we finally paid the bills for the MAP (Monetary Awards Program) students last year, but there’s no certainty for next year, and ISAC (Illinois Student Assistance Commission), who administers the MAP program, is saying MAP applications are significantly down. So there are thousands of students who are just deciding why bother? Why should we go to college?”
In other words, it’s less than 9 months of revenue for 18 months of operations.
Fewer words, please.
*** UPDATE *** Uh-oh…
Chicago State University has been notified it could lose accreditation within a year because of its unstable finances.
The Higher Learning Commission, the agency that oversees public colleges and universities, also dinged the South Side college on long-term planning. But it primarily blamed the school’s woes — significant program and staffing cuts — on the year and a half impasse between the governor and Legislature.
“The institution’s financial situation in FY2016 has been unstable due to the state budget impasse,” the agency wrote in a July 11 letter to CSU leadership.
“The University continues to have diminished financial resources and is accounting in its planning for continued diminution of its resources in the near future. As of the date of this action, the State of Illinois has yet to pass a comprehensive state budget for either FY2016 or FY2017 . . . thus further exacerbating the financial challenges and lack of financial predictability,” the agency wrote.
CSU was given until June 2017 to prove financially stability, or lose accreditation, which would jeopardize ability of students attending the school to transfer credits to other institutions.
* Semi-related…
* Summer slump: SIU on-campus enrollment dips 14 percent as more opt for online classes
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:22 am:
His degrees are in Communications, lol.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:24 am:
–The IBHE is proposing a plan where schools would promise certain outcomes in exchange for the state providing a basic level of funding for three years.–
Proposing the whom? Who is the “state” in this sentence?
You would think the possibility of state universities losing accreditation would be a critical problem.
Anytime before January 2015, it would have been.
- Anon - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:25 am:
Can this agency point to its leadership on these important issues during the past 12 months?
Did they really try to do anything or just wait for the Governor’s lead? They are not a cabinet agency and apparently showed no independence during a crisis. This public statement is not very reassuring.
- Joe M - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:28 am:
I posted this before. Although the numbers given point out a slightly different formula, at least this statement from WIU was framed a little more understandable than the Applegate statement:
“ ‘If we look at this as an 18 month cycle (Fiscal Year ’16 and six months of Fiscal Year ’17) – normally we look at 12 but look at this as an 18 month cycle – normally we would have expected to receive about $72 million during that time. Now we’ve been appropriated $46 million,’ said WIU Budget Director Matt Bierman.”
-from: http://tspr.org/post/stop-gap-funding-measure-far-cure-all-wiu
- Biker - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:34 am:
The issue is that there are multiple forms of fallout. MAP Grants are a great way to retain local talent. Local Colleges are a great way to retain local talent. A strong graduating class year after year is a great way to retain local talent. When you screw with this formula it has decades long impacts on communities, colleges, and individual students. Change happens, but putting MAP grant risk directly on students is low and intentionaly pushes students either out of state or out of college. Either way, Illinois loses.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:34 am:
“If I can’t close Eastern or Western yet, welp, if I discredit them, that’s just like closing them… ” - Fake Bruce Rauner.
Charleston and Macomb especially…
Understand, Rauner saving your economic engine is not in the game plan, the game plan has been to destroy, or in this case “discredit” your economic engines.
Governors open and fund Higher Education, the don’t accelerate a forced discrediting when the can’t close schools.
Meanwhile… local Raunerite members of the General Assembly… unless pressed… don’t care. It’s just not important to these Raunerites.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:39 am:
Applegate takes his orders from Beth Purvis. Her staff even reviews and edits his newsletter. If you look at the latest audit, they can’t properly manage their own funds. The public universities would be better off if IBHE went away and its funding went to the schools or even ISAC.
- Langhorne - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:44 am:
Without any coherent rationale or analysis, rauner wanted to cut higher ed 30%, just because. Instead, thru “starve the beast”, rauner has cut higher ed 50%. Flattening the spending curve. Winning–right, jim and christine?
There is no plan behind “higher ed reforms” beyond “admin is top heavy”. Just starvation and damage that will last for a generation or more.
- Illinois Bob - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:52 am:
On line classes at major universities are the wave of the future and the cost savings grace for public higher education.
On line classes also have personal contact with instructors. My kids have taken them at ASU and JCs over the summer and found the level of instructor support and o9rganization far superior to that in “live” classes. Even kids on campus often take them because of scheduling issues.
My only complaint about them is the cost. They should be far less expensive than “live” classes because of less facility and direct instructor need. There are test banks for the classes to ensure integrity. They still charge the same in most cases as the “live” classes, however.
If we had an efficient and honest K-12 system in Illinois, we’d be using this on line technology a lot more for many JH and HS students to reduce costs and bloated payrolls.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:58 am:
The foundation of Illinois is being infested by “termites”- budget impasses (now more than one on the books), cuts, contract freezes, delayed payments, and…well it’s been well discussed and cussed over here and elsewhere. The trouble with “termites” is that most times you don’t find the damage until you remodel or try and hang a picture and the wall caves in. The stopgap was far from a solution to this process. More and more issues are going to see the sunlight as the General approaches. The revenues, tax hike and otherwise, are going to be the “fumigant” necessary, and it will have to be bipartisan. There is just no way around this unless you let the “termites” keep on eating away until 2018. If that happens, then sections of the house that is Illinois will be reaching condemnation.
- Honeybear - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:58 am:
Loving God my friends lets not feed it today. Please please please ignore it.
- Old and In the Way - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:05 am:
Illinois Bob
Online classes are great for some courses and areas of study. So? What does that have to do with IBHE and accreditation? You are of course that online classes and programs must be approved and accredited before they are offered as part of a degree program. Still, as good as they are they are not a solution to lack of IBHE leadership. You have a point but if you comb your hair right way it won’t show.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:05 am:
Bob - those online classes won’t be worth anything if the universities lose their accreditation.
- Name Withheld - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:06 am:
Sorry - Anonymous @ 10:05 AM was me.
- Old and In the Way - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:11 am:
Of course aware……..small keyboard old fingers.
- Earnest - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:13 am:
Rauner’s genius at work: unlike any Governor in the past, this won’t be hung on him. It will not be: you’re the Governor and this is happening on your watch and you are responsible. There will be no counter-narrative to force a discussion of what the future of higher education should look like and how we prepare for it. These are the purest of his business skills: run something into the ground, pull what money out of it you can and free up the expense. Agree with him or not, he is running circles around most everyone.
- Dr X - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:13 am:
You can bet the “outcomes” will look like progress and real numbers, but if you dig deep enough you’ll find nothing but squishy data and incorrect assumptions.
To Bob: If instructors are using test banks ,then I would avoid the course at all possible costs.
- Lynn S. - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:18 am:
Old and in the way @ 10:05–
If he styles his hair into a bouffant, his point will be even larger and more obvious!
- Langhorne - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:20 am:
“Bloated payrolls”, not much different than “top heavy admin”–no analysis or evidence to back it up.
- thunderspirit - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:20 am:
Illinois Bob: wanting everyone he doesn’t deem “worth it” to make less since forever.
- Roger Dorn - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:28 am:
Interesting that Chicago State’s accreditation would be more at risk due to its finances rather than its academic results. 14% graduation rate over 6 years is really … something.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:29 am:
Rauner “finally” closing Chicago State University and discrediting Western and Eastern… and closing one of the Southern campuses…
…
… those will be touted as Rauner “Accomplisments”
That’s real.
“Why? How can you say that?!?”
A governor doesn’t idly sit and watch state universities close, get discredited, or fail to grow… on accident.
The job and role of governor has never worked that way.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:30 am:
Roger Dorn - how do you think the grad rate would look at UIUC if they had the CSU students and vice versa?
- Formerly Known as Frenchie M - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:35 am:
—
My only complaint about them is the cost. They should be far less expensive than “live” classes because of less facility and direct instructor need.
—
Nope. They should be the same. On-line instructors are expected to be available 24/7 (for the most part). Students expect immediate responses to emails and text messages. If they don’t get it, they complain — and the complaints of response times are often reflected in course evaluations. Plus, faculty burnout is very, very high. (I know this from my own experience and talking with colleagues. “Incessance” is the word often used — and it’s a definite issue online (onsite, too, but online sees more of it).
As someone who has taught 8+ years at several online schools, the amount of work is staggering — especially when students are firing off questions one after the other. Plus, there are some classes that aren’t suited to online — at all. Freshman comp writing, for example. Very difficult to teach writing online.
In my overall experience, I’d say online is nowhere near as effective as in-person, in-class learning. Good students stay good, bad students stay bad, and there’s rarely a crossover from bad student to good student online.
I realize online learning is the inevitable way many classes will be taught moving forward — but the technology and support is not there yet.
- Joe M - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:35 am:
CSU serves a lot of part-time students. Adults and those who must work. Also mostly commuter students. That type of student body will often not be graduating at the same pace as traditional on-campus, full-time student bodies.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:35 am:
The day of reckoning for the badly mismanaged Chicago State University is drawing near. CSU has a colossal campus with a dwindling student population. Rauner is going take a hit if CSU finally closes its doors, but Quinn deserves as much blame for permitting the politicians carte blanche to run university into the ground because they were his supporters at election time.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:40 am:
OW- “The job and role of governor has never worked that way.”
But the “role” of CEO of Illinois does.
- staffer - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:47 am:
IBHE? This agency has failed to have any significant leadership in the past five years. They don’t report to the Governor and have an aging and out of touch board. At the helm is a guy who said he wasn’t going to go down with the sinking ship so I’m not sure his quotes carry much weight. Have to agree with Anonymous at 9:39 “they can’t properly manage their own funds.” They’ve been under investigation for misuse of funds, and then investigated themselves and found nothing wrong. They have made no significant changes for higher education in the past five years because they don’t have the strength to do so. I’m not even sure what they do. They certainly are not part of any solution.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:49 am:
Students’, traditional or not, straight out of high school or returning to school in their 30’s or later, lives are going to be (and have been) thrown into potential chaos. NPR had a good interview the other day on the fallout of student debt. Any student who is in the process of earning a degree in Illinois, especially at CSU, EIU, WIU or any other higher ed institution that is being harmed by our Great Mess, may have a lifetime setback in overall earning power for themselves and their families.
http://wglt.org/post/im-student-debt-slave-howd-we-get-here
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:51 am:
===Rauner is going take a hit if CSU finally closes its doors, but Quinn deserves as much blame for permitting the politicians carte blanche to run university into the ground because they were his supporters at election time.===
Nope. Sorry….
… No.
Governors own, ask Candidate Rauner.
“Pat Quinn failed!”
CSU closing on Rauner’s watch is a Rauner failure…
… but Rauner and Raunerites will tout it as an accomplishment… along with Eastern and Western discredited.
That’s how the job works, especially when Rauner cheers and roots for Higher Ed to be destroyed.
(Hat tip to - Anon221 - )
- BK Bro - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:52 am:
What happens if these school lose the accreditation?
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:53 am:
“On line classes at major universities are the wave of the future and the cost savings grace for public higher education.
On line classes also have personal contact with instructors. My kids have taken them at ASU and JCs over the summer and found the level of instructor support and o9rganization far superior to that in “live” classes. Even kids on campus often take them because of scheduling issues.”
Online courses can be good choices if a student knows how to learn and how to discipline themselves to take part in the class. I’m guessing your kids fit that bill, but for many students who are first generation or simply haven’t learned to be disciplined in studying, they often need in person classes. In many schools we are seeing students pushing for in person choices to remain.
They also don’t save that much money, if any., but that’s a longer issue.
- Chicagonk - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:53 am:
CSU’s current six-year graduation rate is 11%. That’s awful and frankly embarrassing.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:55 am:
===What happens if these school lose the accreditation?===
Welp, first, getting students to attend a non-accredited Higher Education institution… how do think that goes?
That’s for openers…
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:55 am:
Even if Rauner is stopped, he’s done exactly what he wanted to do–weaken public (collectivist) institutions. I don’t expect the colleges and universities will come back as strong in many cases and those, like CSU, that were improving are losing that progress.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:58 am:
Rauner could just come out and say
“CSU needs to close!”
“We have too many state universities and besides reducing majors, schools need to close!”
Wonder why Rauner won’t?
I know…
“Office Space” has the answer…
“We fixed… the glitch”
Capiche?
- Warthog - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 10:59 am:
In business, do you mail agreements and invoices or do you send them electronically and receive funds electronically? If you want efficiency and speed, you do things online.
Same as online classes for students. If I was in college these days, I would try to take 30-50% of courses online. Even if you are UIUC, many times they will accept a course taken online at a community college. Save a lot of $ and graduate earlier.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:00 am:
BK Bro- these might help answer your question-
http://www.collegesanddegrees.com/accreditation
http://graphics.wsj.com/table/ACCREDITlost
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:06 am:
===What happens if these school lose the accreditation?
Usually probation occurs first, but some of the biggest things are students are no longer eligible for federal financial aid, the classes don’t transfer to anywhere else, and other colleges/grad schools don’t recognize the degree.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:10 am:
===In business, do you mail agreements and invoices or do you send them electronically and receive funds electronically? If you want efficiency and speed, you do things online.
Again, I’m not against online learning, but people need to understand that online courses aren’t a magical elixir. Learning isn’t just content and not all students learn well in an online environment. Magically claiming efficiency doesn’t make it so either. One of the issues online has not solved well is student interaction. In a good class you should be learning as much from your peers as from the professor in collaborative learning. Now, we don’t always do that well offline, but online has not cracked the problem yet. Bulletin boards and posting are somewhat effective, but not entirely.
- Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:27 am:
==Because the accreditors are not looking at next semester or even next year. They’re saying: Are institutions financially able to serve students they enroll for four or five years?==
Students are looking at the same thing. Would you sign on for four to five years at school that might close in one or two? We are losing talent…
- Tommydanger - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:30 am:
Let me toss this idea out for it to be bludgeoned to death.
If the State is unable or otherwise unwilling to adequately support higher education, maybe a number of our universities should close. Those that remain would likely see higher enrollments, which when coupled with greater state support would provide for greater financial stability of the remaining universities.
The closed sites could be repurposed to be high tech or business incubator locations. The properties returned to tax roles to offset some of the devastating impacts on the local economies.
Enrollments have been declining at many, if not most, of our public universities and has only been accelerated by the recent budget misadventures. Education, after all, is a product and the supply of that product currently far exceeds the demand for it in Illinois. Do we have the resources, commitment and sustained creative will to reinvent that product and make it more attractive?
If not, then maybe we should make lemonade out of these lemons while we still have the chance. Otherwise the contagion of falling enrollments might claim more universities than would have otherwise occurred if we were proactive and acted to reinvest in and support the most viable institutions.
Start swinging…
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:31 am:
tax rolls, ugh!
- Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:31 am:
With respect to on-line classes saving money, experience has show that this is not the case. As pointed out above, the qualities that people value (such as instructor interaction and 24/7 access) are the features that cancel out any cost savings.
Money can be saved by using videos and automatically graded assignments, but you lose the valued features and make cheating much easier.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:39 am:
- Tommydanger -
With respect,
If Rauner wants to publicly own that stance, that would be a huge movement, and also Rauner owning the closing of Higher Education institutions.
Further…
Owning your premise? Rauner needs a ROI to explain to Charleston, Macomb, even Chicago, beyond “Busuness pluses”
You can’t close and board up Higher Ed buildings on a premise not proven with an ROI, or a plan ready to begin immediately.
You can’t convince these college towns “business should be coming if we close the school and set up …”
Otherwise, Rauner would’ve tried this already.
Again, with respect.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:45 am:
OW: Your points are well made and well taken. I’m not sure if there is any recent/significant history of public universities closing in any state. There experiences would be instructive.
I’m not so much advocating for their closures as I am sounding the alarms that at some point with such small enrollments they reach a tipping point where their closure becomes self fulfilling and inevitable.
- Tommydanger - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:45 am:
that was me at 11:45
- staffer - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:04 pm:
IBHE’s Applegate has a spotlight on only ONE of 5 core criteria that HLC considers for accreditation and in so doing only serves to create more panic than what people already feel. While financial stability is a factor in accreditation there are 5 core criteria on which an institution’s accreditation is maintained. Those can be found at the HLC’s website under the criteria for accreditation. However, there are other criteria for accreditation which revolve around mission, integrity, teaching and learning-quality, teaching and learning-evaluation and improvement. Certainly loss of accreditation is taking place in our state: CSU was put on probation at the end of June. But CSU but it had more than just financial problems. HLC has said they will check in with all higher education institutions again during the next year and institutions will most likely need to submit another status of their financial situation. The point being that institutions can find themselves in trouble with the HLC for reasons other than finances. Issues with any of the five criteria that HLC considers can put an institution’s accreditation at risk.
- Mama - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:07 pm:
“If we had an efficient and honest K-12 system in Illinois, we’d be using this on line technology a lot more for many JH and HS students to reduce costs and bloated payrolls.”
K-12 teachers do a lot more than just teach their subject lesson. This method of teaching would be a disaster in grades 6-12. When was the last time you spent time in the classroom or talking with a teacher?
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:20 pm:
He says they will promise to produce better student outcomes if they state agrees to provide more stable funding, as if the schools weren’t doing anything about student outcomes previously. IBHE has carried this attitude for awhile that the schools don’t care about outcomes but that’s probably because most of the IBHE staff has no experience working on a campus. Most of their senior staff don’t even hold an advanced degree.
- Pawn - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:29 pm:
Come on, people! Online classes are not a panacea! How do you teach a lab class online? Teach a nursing student how to draw blood? Dissect a pig? etc. etc. Sure, some things are suited for an online class but some things simply need hands on, face to face instruction and access to specialized equipment. Put a little thought into your knee-jerk reactions.
- TownGown - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:01 pm:
“Fewer words, please.”
Says anyone who has ever had to listen to Applegate talk about anything…. I am frankly surprised he didn’t find a way to work in the fact that he used to work for the Lumina Foundation. Some of us have a drinking game based on that propensity..
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:09 pm:
===I am sounding the alarms that at some point with such small enrollments they reach a tipping point where their closure becomes self fulfilling and inevitable.===
- Tommydanger -
Respectfully,
Nothing like that becomes inevitable as it is teetering now unless a governor outright refuses to fund Higher Ed and MAP…
There’s the rub.
With respect, as always,
OW
- staffer - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:23 pm:
===- TownGown - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:01 pm: “Fewer words, please.”
Says anyone who has ever had to listen to Applegate talk about anything…. I am frankly surprised he didn’t find a way to work in the fact that he used to work for the Lumina Foundation. Some of us have a drinking game based on that propensity..
===
Applegate loves to hear himself talk.
- Just Me - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:47 pm:
Can they wait until mid-November to resolve this issue? I’m told all of our state’s problems are expected to magically disappear around that time.
- illinois bob - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:00 pm:
I’ve been part of accreditation evaluations at both the HS and college level, and the process really does take the overall effectiveness and competency of the services provided into account. I had to provide examples of tests and assignments, as well as my syllabus, over to the accreditation team.
If they weren’t up to snuff, we wouldn’t have been successful.
I taught at popular schools that didn’t have to “cut corners” to keep poor students in, but if a school had a “dumbed down” curricula I could see how a school, or at least a few programs, could be at risk.
I suspect that the folks in charge failing to properly develop and execute curricula is more of a problem here than just finance. We’ll see.
- Anon - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:21 pm:
The single digit graduation rate so often touted about CSU is based on 7% of the students (first time full time freshmen). The bulk of the student population is transfer. Their graduation rate is significantly higher and on par with the graduation rates of other schools. It is also true that there are many part time students and stop outs (students who have to drop out temporarily to care for family or pick up extra jobs).
- jerry 101 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:29 pm:
As someone who reads through resumes and interviews college kids as part of his job, if someone takes one or two online classes, I probably won’t blink. If you take a lot of online classes (or, worse yet, you went to an online ‘university’), I’m passing you or your resume by in favor of someone who actually went to college. No different than not wanting to hire someone who went to DeVry when I can hire someone who attended ISU.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:32 pm:
Illinois Bob, what in the world do you mean when you say accreditation evaluation at the HS level?
- jerry 101 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:38 pm:
BK Bro - for a school like CSU, where a large portion of the student body likely depends on federal student aid (pell grants, loans, etc), I would expect enrollment would drop dramatically…approaching zero, I would expect. The Feds don’t award financial aid to students who are attending unaccredited Universities.
So the University would close. Students lives would be thrown off course, many may never get on course again. The credit hours they’ve received from CSU are tainted by the fact that CSU is no longer accredited, so there could be issues with transferring credits.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 4:08 pm:
“The point being that institutions can find themselves in trouble with the HLC for reasons other than finances. Issues with any of the five criteria that HLC considers can put an institution’s accreditation at risk.”
While technically true, the financial status is often a leading indicator for problems in the other areas. It also is an indicator that the institution is on a path to Heightened Cash Monitoring which adds restrictions to federal student aid which has real consequences in how you are able to manage student accounts and liquidity.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 4:22 pm:
“I suspect that the folks in charge failing to properly develop and execute curricula is more of a problem here than just finance. We’ll see.”
That’s not really where places are getting hit. Curriculum itself is a fairly low bar to pass. Where most colleges are having problems are in tracking overall learning and program outcomes that are over and above individual classes. So if a student take Program A, how do you know if students are meeting the program goals at the end of the program. Same thing with co-curricular programming (another reason why more and more staff is needed outside the classroom, but that’s a different issue).
“BHE has carried this attitude for awhile that the schools don’t care about outcomes but that’s probably because most of the IBHE staff has no experience working on a campus”
It sounds like they have remarkably little experience with what accreditation involves now as well.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 9:49 pm:
Chicago State University has more than a few alumni members serving as elected officials in state and local government to call upon for help.
Maybe that is part of the problem with state and local government in Illinois.