Fun with numbers
Tuesday, Oct 4, 2016 - Posted by Rich Miller
* From the Mark Kirk campaign…
Duckworth Supports $60 Billion Spending Increase For Free Community College
At the Chicago Tribune Editorial Board Debate yesterday, Rep. Duckworth said she wants free community college but could not answer how much it would cost when asked by editorial board members.
Well, we found out how much it would cost: $60 billion dollars.
“Rep. Duckworth has advocated for a new entitlement program without even knowing the cost of it, so we helped her with the research. Duckworth’s plan would cost taxpayers $60 billion,” said Kirk For Senate campaign manager Kevin Artl. “As Senator Kirk said yesterday that while he wants to spend less, tax less and borrow less, Rep. Duckworth wants to spend more, tax more and borrow more, and that is the most important contrast for voters heading into November.”
Except that $60 billion is the projected cost over 10 years.
* And no word yet on how much this would cost…
Kirk, a retired Navy intelligence officer, said he wants the U.S. to create a safe haven for Syrian refugees in Jordan, with the help of the Jordanian government.
Duckworth said the idea “doesn’t even make sense” and would require “a massive increase in U.S. forces.”
“We can’t just be a nation that continually sends troops to war,” she said.
…Adding… Duckworth actually disclosed the cost in a press release at the end of yesterday’s debate…
Rapid Response #9: Tammy Duckworth Would Pay For Tuition-Free Community College By Closing Corporate Tax Loopholes
Today, Kirk Called Tuition-Free Community College For Deserving Students An “Entitlement”
CHICAGO —Tammy Duckworth has proposed how she would pay for her plan to make college more affordable: by closing a tax loophole that allows unlimited write-offs for executive bonuses, by closing the Carried Interest loophole, and by enacting the Buffet Rule to ensure millionaires pay their fair share. She would use the revenue to fully pay for the $60 billion cost of tuition-free community college for deserving students, in addition to making student loans more affordable and strengthening Pell grants.
Republican Mark Kirk on the other hand, today called tuition-free community college an “entitlement.” Tammy Duckworth considers it an investment in our future.
- Saluki - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 11:51 am:
May as well calculate what free junior college would cost for 100 years. Once you give it away, you never get it back…
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 11:53 am:
The students who are successful will pay more in taxes due to their higher income and will rely less on government support so it could be a good investment. However, if someone else is paying the bills, some students will slack off more or just not care and drop out. Make it a loan that is forgiven for those who graduate but must be paid back for those who drop out or flunk out.
- Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 11:59 am:
Like to see a cost comparison on the Syrian refugee issue between setting up something over there versus bringing several hundred thousand of them here.
- Last Bull Moose - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:01 pm:
A safe haven in Jordan? Do we want another Gaza strip?
Mark Kirk is supposed to be smarter than that.
- Louis G. Atsaves - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:18 pm:
Seems like everything can be paid once “corporate tax loopholes” are closed. Sounds so easy.
- Belle - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:19 pm:
11:53 Anonymous—interesting idea! Not sure if it will work but terrific.
- Keyser Soze - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:37 pm:
Today’s magical elixir…….(drum roll)……”close corporate loopholes.” Straight from the playbook for rubes.
- Just Observing - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:40 pm:
I’m not saying community college is dirt cheap or that some don’t have trouble covering the costs (some surely do) — but it is a relative, taxpayer supported bargain compared to most four year universities. How much cheaper can we make it?
- Piece of Work - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:41 pm:
In tyhe left’s world, let’s give away stuff to garner votes, we’ll find middle and upper class people to pay for it.
Their answer for everything from housing, food, phones, schooling, etc.
Does the left realize, or care, that we are facing about $20 trillion in debt with almost 1/2 that added in 8 years under Obama????
- archpundit - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:45 pm:
===’m not saying community college is dirt cheap or that some don’t have trouble covering the costs (some surely do)
It’s not a bad point. I think the biggest barrier is time and money to go to school while not working or more likely working as much. I’m not sure free does much other than take a way a psychological barrier.
My concern is that legislators tend to underfund education and not even keep up with the cost of inflation in many states. This means that while right now, Community and Technical colleges can raise tuition, in this new framework that would be limited or eliminated. That creates some very real problems for sustainability. Managed correctly it could be okay, but I have little confidence in the long term commitment.
- Sarcastic - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:48 pm:
“Deserving students.” I spent 8 years in the military (too young and stupid to take advantage of VEAP at the time) and don’t qualify for assistance from anyone including the state because I have a job and “make too much money” even though I’m living paycheck to paycheck in a small home supporting myself and wife and helping the kids and grandkids my whole life. My guess is if you’re responsible as I have been, you are not going to be Deserving. I wonder who would be? Yes. That was sarcasm because we all know the answer.
- OneMan - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:50 pm:
So free community college tuition… Sound like a good idea but.
– Is it going to be means tested in any way? For example I have thought about taking a meteorology class at COD, just for fun and interest really. Would that be covered even though I could easily afford it?
–Is there an age limit?
– Are the feds going to pay retail or some standard discounted tuition
– How are schools going to deal with increased enrollment?
– Some programs may require instructors with specific training or education, there is already a shortage of these folks in some fields (Nursing in particular because the private sector pays much better for an MSN than education). How are you going to address that
– Is there going to be a net credit hour limit?
– Is there a time limit?
– Will remedial classes be covered?
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:50 pm:
Duckworth should not be so flippantly dismissive of Sen. Kirk’s proposal for Syrian refugees.
I want to get out the Middle East the quicker the better. But there are 1.2 million Syrian refugees in Jordan living in atrocious, deadly squalor and the government there simply can’t handle it alone.
It’s a horrible humanitarian crisis and it’s happening on this generation of humanity’s watch.
An international relief effort is a necessity. And yes, it will need to be led by the United States because we’re the only ones in the world that can pull it off.
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:54 pm:
1. No federal program EVER comes in under or at its budget.
2. “Close corporate loopholes” and “tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas” seem to be mandatory drinking game inclusions.
3. I think the free community college concept would be acceptable as long as it has parameters and limits.
- AlfondoGonz - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:54 pm:
Piece of work-
“Almost half that added in the 8 years under Obama”
Translation: Less than half added under 8 years of Obama. Now is a good time to mention that Obama’s predecessor, a certain Mr. Bush, inherited a surplus.
So, we go from a surplus to deep debt, most of which was accumulated (and still accumulating) under Bush.
Should we try trickle down economics again??? It’s bound to work eventually.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:55 pm:
As a former community college instructor, I would suggest that we start delivering on free and appropriate K-12 education before anyone recommends two years of government funded free college. Many CPS graduates are unhappy to learn that they need remedial instruction in English and Math when they enrolled at the college level.
- Federalist - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 12:59 pm:
I am sure HRC would be happy to back her on this ludicrous proposal.
- Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:11 pm:
As a parent of two HS kids looking at college soon, my wallet and I selfishly would love this proposal and Bernie Sanders’ counterpart for 4-year colleges. However, I am reminded of that funny Sanders meme from the primaries with a picture of him saying: “As my first act as President, I will direct the Dept. of Agriculture to plant the magic beans that will grow all the free stuff I’m promising!”
- Higer Ed - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:13 pm:
The community colleges, public and private universities are in a choke hold at the hands of Bruce Rauner who continually proposed drastic cuts in appropriations to the public’s and vetoes funding for MAP that the CC’s and privates desperately need. Now we are going to provide it free? Let’s take care of the huge problem we have now before we get much further over our ski’s.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:18 pm:
Oneman–all good points and I generally agree with the challenges of such a proposal, but I’ll say on this one: How are schools going to deal with increased enrollment?
Given current trends, I think most C&T colleges would be happy to figure that one out on there own.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:24 pm:
===However, I am reminded===
Please. An average of $6 billion a year to measurably improve the lives of hundreds of thousands of people?
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:25 pm:
Ed - this would likely be a voucher system. You would apply like you would for a Pell Grant or a Medicare discount or federally-supported housing.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:26 pm:
Seriously, the federal government spends untold hundreds of billions of dollars every year on the military and people are all of a sudden extreme penny pinchers when it comes to education for our own people.
Spare me.
- Just Observing - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:34 pm:
=== Seriously, the federal government spends untold hundreds of billions of dollars every year on the military and people are all of a sudden extreme penny pinchers when it comes to education for our own people. ===
We overspend in that area too.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:38 pm:
The state once gave free mass transit rides to senior citizens. Then it stopped. Saluki is wrong.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:39 pm:
Having more educated citizens produces more taxable income, the program would pay for itself if properly run.
- PoW - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:44 pm:
I want to be safe and I am willing to pay 3 grand a year to send a kid to a community college. That is why I am okay with spending for the military.
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:49 pm:
1:38 - how many FEDERAL programs have been started and stopped?! I don’t mean some minor program, either. I mean an educational program or healthcare program or safety net program. They don’t end. The programs may be scaled back or more responsibilities might be given to the states but federal programs are pretty much here to stay when they become enacted by law or order.
- pundent - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 1:49 pm:
I think we could afford to take $6B a year out of the defense budget and re-deploy it to education. I suspect we could do a lot more than that but that’s probably the “magic beans” I had for lunch talking.
- Federalist - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:11 pm:
Kirk, a retired Navy intelligence officer, said he wants the U.S. to create a safe haven for Syrian refugees in Jordan, with the help of the Jordanian government.
Duckworth said the idea “doesn’t even make sense” and would require “a massive increase in U.S. forces.”
So what would make sense as it relates to dealing with he Syrian refugees? Any specific suggestions if you don’t like Kirk’s proposal?
- IllinoisBoi - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:16 pm:
The Gerald R. Ford, lead ship in the new class of aircraft carriers, is expected to cost $14.7 billion. The U.S. government spends about $11 billion EVERY DAY. We can’t reallocate a few hours worth of federal spending to enhance education for millions of Americans?
- Terrible Towel - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:20 pm:
Kirk was definitely low-key, but I can’t help but wonder how someone like Duckworth, who is a veteran and sits on the Armed Services committee, doesn’t understand or even know about the 6th fleet and its function…
- Galena Guy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:20 pm:
“Seriously, the federal government spends untold hundreds of billions of dollars every year on the military and people are all of a sudden extreme penny pinchers when it comes to education for our own people.
Spare me.”
Hear hear Rich! Truer words were never spoken. Those on the right are always able to find the money to feed the bloated military-industrial machine. When it comes to improving the lives of citizens who really could use help….well not so much….perhaps cuz they don’t “deserve” it (snark).
- Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:23 pm:
I’d rather spend it on free community colleges than on defense contractors.
- @MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:24 pm:
“how many FEDERAL programs have been started and stopped?! I don’t mean some minor program, either. I mean an educational program or healthcare program or safety net program. They don’t end.”
The Works Progress Administration was formed on May 6, 1935.
It’s initial appropriation was $4.9 billion ($84.4 billion adjusted for inflation). The WPA had an annual budget of $1.3 billion ($22.6B inflation adjusted). During its existence, the WPA spent $10,500,000,000 ($184,600,000,000 inflation adjusted) and employed 8.5 million Americans.
On June 30, 1943, the WPA ceased to exist.
– MrJM
- Cable Line Beer Gardener - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:26 pm:
“Today’s magical elixir…….(drum roll)……”close corporate loopholes.” Straight from the playbook for rubes.”
This rube thinks the first loophole closed should be the one that allows amnesty for 20 years of federal taxes for those who lose money during an uptick.
- @MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:28 pm:
“So what would make sense as it relates to dealing with the Syrian refugees?”
This is a legitimate question.
I sincerely wonder if it has an answer.
– MrJM
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:31 pm:
Mr. JM - good catch. I wasn’t quite thinking back that far.
- DD - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:33 pm:
** Having more educated citizens produces more taxable income, the program would pay for itself if properly run **
You have to have jobs for them first. We already have a glut of kids with 4 year degrees flipping burgers because there aren’t enough jobs for them.
- Touré's Latte - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 2:51 pm:
Closing loopholes. I love that story.
- Last Bull Moose - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 3:01 pm:
Mr JM, The WPA funds were promptly transferred to the bloated War Department.
The Syrian refugee problem cannot be solved outside of a solution to the civil war in Syria. Now that Russian military are fighting alongside the Assad government, that solution is harder to achieve.
No group in Syria is willing to have another group in power over them. And they have good reason to be afraid.
Some form of weak federation is the best government for that benighted land.
- Federalist - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 4:04 pm:
“I’d rather spend it on free community colleges than on defense contractors.”
A wiser choice with the government $18 trillion in debt would be to spend it on neither.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 4:47 pm:
–Seems like everything can be paid once “corporate tax loopholes” are closed. Sounds so easy.–
Not as easy as drawing on that fat direct-deposit state paycheck while Catholic Charities, Lutheran Social Services, rape crisis centers, homeless children’s centers, Meals on Wheels, etc., are being Trumped down to pennies on the dollar on their state contracts in the name of “reform.”
Am I right, Louis?
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 5:19 pm:
How are we going to pay for it? Maybe if Donald Trump starts paying his taxes.
- Last Bull Moose - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 5:44 pm:
Collectively, we have wasted a lot of money on private yrade schools. Many of those institutions have folded when cut off from government loans. Not sure if that equals $6 billion per year.
- DuPage Dave - Tuesday, Oct 4, 16 @ 6:41 pm:
So many of you folks hating on people who want to learn something. Sad to see this on the CapFax.
- PoW - Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 7:43 am:
Dupage Dave, never in the history of this nation has it been easier to “learn something.”
Desire and discipline are good things.