112 Comments - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:37 am: Dunn’s title for this section of his newsletter was quite telling… “WTH” - SAP - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:39 am: Maybe the community colleges came up with the crazy idea that their associates degrees would actually be of value to prospective students by showing that they would not be locked into an Illinois school that could fail during the 2 years they spend enrolled in a community college. - Oneman - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:39 am: If we are going to promote community colleges as part of the affordability plan for college (which seems like a good idea for me) than the more systems that make the transition as easy as possible. I would suggest the SIU look into taking Iowa CC credits in such a way. - OneMan - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:40 am: The other part of this is there are kids in HS who get dual credit with their CC (for English classes for example) this helps them out as well. - Cubs in '16 - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:43 am: It’s a leap to surmise this was on the ICCB’s “to do list”. However, with the Gov. of IL willfully starving state universities it would be unethical for the ICCB to not entertain these types of articulation agreements. They’re in the students’ best interest and that’s where the focus should be. - Honeybear - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:45 am: I’m thankful that an arrangement exists. I’m also thankful to Iowa for making it. I think people need to get out of their “fee fees” and think about making sure our students have options. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:46 am: “See me after my term if SIU is still open” - Fake Bruce Rauner. To the Post, Iowa and Iowa State have publicly made the policy that Illinois high school seniors are as much of a priority as Iowa high school seniors. The purposeful and direct connections that make both Iowa, in this specific Post, and Iowa State work tirelessly to poach. Wait until Eastern has to write another letter “reassuring” a state higher educational institution will… exist… while Iowa here makes significant inroads, while Southern is perplexed. Don’t blame Iowa, don’t be upset with Iowa State, Wisconsin, or any SEC school. I’d be upset that state universities are missing out here… and “things” like this help Rauner’s want to close a university… … in Charleston … in Carbondale, or Edwardsville … in Macomb Good on the Community Colleges. Maybe they know something we’re ignoring? - Enlightened - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:47 am: Smart move for Iowa. Illinois students get burned all the time trying to transfer credit from community colleges to public universities. - Almost the Weekend - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:50 am: Dunn’s email is incredibly short sighted. Majority of these students after graduating at Iowa, return to Illinois to live and work there, which helps fund higher ed. Dunn should be worried about retaining college graduates in Carbondale instead of leaving for Chicago or leaving the state. UIUC is doing it with Research Park, why can’t SIU? Illinois Community College Board and SIU have different duties. Worry about what you can control. By making SIU an attractive place to go to school and live after graduation. - Bogey Golfer - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:53 am: So the SIU President would rather make it harder for community college students to transfer to an out-of-state university. Yeah that’s the way to solve the the problem. - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:53 am: I can understand that Dunn is honked, but the ICCB is just doing right by its students. That’s the right priority. The SOI, by it’s actions, has been very clear that it doesn’t want them; Iowa does. - The Captain - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:53 am: I empathize with Dunn’s frustration but the needs of the students have to come first. Helping students with a seamless transition from their 2 year program to a 4 year program is the best thing that the ICCB can do for their students. - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:54 am: We export students in part because we have so many. We have up to 4x the population of our neighboring states. As SIU’s President acknowledges, lots of IL kids go to Iowa anyway and always have. They are aggressive marketers, believe me I know firsthand with a kid looking right now. Why not make it easier for them? As for SIU’s situation, yes the funding situation here hurts, no question, but some of our directional schools especially have other issues they need to address as well. The Edwardsville campus is doing quite well I understand, all things considered. - anon - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:56 am: Smart by Iowa and right move by the community colleges for their students. - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:56 am: Iowa can “poach” from other states because the state has a low population and needs out of state students to fill it’s universities. If we had any regard for the “best interest of our own students” we’d do whatever it took to keep the best ones here. But that’s not happening. Iowa lured many of my child’s friends (and him) by rewarding his excellent achievements monetarily. University of Illinois could not have cared less and practically spit at us in an orientation session (exaggeration—-but they passed up an excellent contributor to this state). Same cost after merit scholarship. One treats you with respect and welcome—-other treats you like dirt. Where would you go? What’s with our leadership snubbing education? Since when is education a dumb thing? The anti-education governor! - vole - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 9:58 am: Can we just wipe out the border and have Iowa residents support Illinois community college districts with their property taxes? - Ghost - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:07 am: this is not complicated. Rauner hates higher education salaries and budgets. a guy who makes way way more money himself begrudges university employees their meeher incomparison pay. he wants to damage them as much as he can, just like the unions - Brendan - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:07 am: ICCB: “You do your job. We’ll do ours.” Dunn: ” . . . “ - RIJ - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:09 am: It’s a transfer agreement. All it means is that ICCB and the University of Iowa figured out what Gen Ed Illinois CC students meet coming into Iowa and what gaps they still need to fill. This is done at all levels - the individual degree I worked for had many agreements, with everything from individual programs to entire institutions. A transfer agreement simply clarifies and simplifies. It does not replace the work of recruitment. As far as encouraging out-migration of Illinois’ college age students, the real responsibility lies with Governor Brucie. - JS Mill - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:10 am: I do not see this as poaching at all. In fact, students at Illinois CC’s (or any other state for that matter) that are following the national CC Accreditation Standards should receive acceptance without a specific agreement. Each college could/should have some course requirements and their own GPA requirements (common for colleges to have different requirements) but acceptance, as long as the national standards are followed, should be universal. Good on Iowa for opening the door for more students. It also increases the value of the CC experience for Illinois students. - iwillquoteyouonthis - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:12 am: I don’t think whining about poachers is helpful for SIU. They, like all public universities in Illinois, are victims of the ongoing hostage negotiation, but assuring students and parents requires a posture of strength. From a wider view, I think this year’s enrollment numbers prove that unlike (most) state agencies, public universities face a direct market test that rewards and punishes accordingly. That test is recruitment and retention. So tasking universities with compliance, enforcement, and record keeping of a million and one unfunded mandates designed to control state agencies (which have no direct market test), is inappropriate and incredibly costly. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:15 am: ===Good on Iowa for opening the door for more students. It also increases the value of the CC experience for Illinois students.=== With a fear of becoming an Owl… “Who” is cut out when CCs and Out of State schools (this time Iowa) make it easier to blur where staying in state can make sense? For students and CCs, this is awesome. - Joe M - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:19 am: WIU has reached a similar agreement with at least one Iowa community college district. https://www.eicc.edu/future-students/transfer-programs/transfer-guide/western-illinois-university.aspx - JS Mill - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:22 am: @OW- Your point is well taken and a valid one at that. I see it as separate topic but related issue. College options in Illinois are being drastically diminished. One could say “hey, look enrollments have been on downward trend at some state schools.” But it is also fair to state that has really come in tandem with reduced state support that has forced schools to raise costs, which in turn closes the door on some students. Even at CC’s. Rauner did not start this cycle but he sure has played a hand in accelerating the problem. - Oneman - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:25 am: Anonymous, amen on that. My daughter looks at UIS since they had the program she was interested in. Her GPA and ACT we high enough that she would have gotten some help from them (not as much as Kansas gave her). She was scheduled to meet with a faculty member and the day before they called and canceled the meeting and didn’t offer up another faculty member to meet with or anything else. When she did the tour the tour guide was busy looking at her phone for most of the tour. Keep in mind her GPA and ACT we both well above the average for UIS. We also have family down there so could have arranged some housing options that would have worked out great for her. When I sent an e-mail first to admissions and then the chancellor about how the experience completely killed any chance for her to go to UIS neither entity bothered to get back to me. You can blame this on Rauner (well in part folks here blame everything on Rauner) but the attitude of kids in this state about the state schools is not something that has developed over the last 2 years. Lots of my daughters classmates went to Iowa (she almost did as well) and so far at least, they love it. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:26 am: - JS Mill - Your specific points are also given, well said to what has indeed happened, abc what has indeed needlessly accelerated. Thanks for your insight. Appreciate your take as always. - striketoo - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:27 am: This was inked by the same folks who do our trade negotiations with China. - Earnest - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:29 am: Good on Iowa. Shame on Rauner for his destruction of the Illinois higher education system while distraction from his intentions. Shame on the leadership of the Democratic Party for failing to frame the debate on this. Shame on both for not making a planful effort to maximize the attractiveness, effectiveness and efficiency of our higher education system. - Trstmay - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:36 am: The agreement is for the benefit of students, especially financially disadvantaged students. Why make them victims for living in the State of Illinois? - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:38 am: -From a wider view, I think this year’s enrollment numbers prove that unlike (most) state agencies, public universities face a direct market test that rewards and punishes accordingly.- This is very true. Our oldest gets probably a half dozen pieces of physical mail a day, some from places I’ve never heard of. This doesn’t include all the e-mails. Schools these days can’t rest on their laurels, innovate, compete, distinguish yourselves, or be left behind. - Joe M - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:40 am: I should add that a number of individual programs at WIU have also expanded on the transfer agreement with the Eastern Iowa Community College district. This is just one example. http://www.wiu.edu/news/newsrelease.php?release_id=10879 - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:42 am: Anon@ 9:56——-To answer your question, which school would you attend between Illinois and Iowa, the answer is ILLINOIS because it is a superior university academically. If you base your college choice if someone is “nice” to you versus a school is the correct choice academically, I really don’t know what to tell you. - vole - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:43 am: Needless to say, but this just represents another of the numerous ways capital and resources leave the state. Residents of Illinois have too much invested in these students to have a philosophy of austerity at the top sending too many of them away. Heck of a way to grow the economy there miser Rauner. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:46 am: ===Why make them victims for living in the State of Illinois?=== I think you just made them victims all by yourself. Agreed that parents are “shopping” schools for ease of transfer to 4-year schools from CCs and if you add the financial incentives too that some offer with a transfer, the Rauner Administration forcing state universities to wonder if they are staying open for the whole year isn’t “helping” - JS Mill - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:46 am: =Anon@ 9:56——-To answer your question, which school would you attend between Illinois and Iowa, the answer is ILLINOIS because it is a superior university academically.= Not an empirically true statement. It is program and fit dependent. A good fit for one student is not a good fit for another. It is a very personal choice if you are doing it right. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:49 am: - Piece of Work - Illinois - full tuition and room and board and fees Iowa - option of reduced tuition, and aggressive merit scholarships Both B1G schools. Parents seem to like saving $20-30K in tuition. Snobbery doesn’t pay student loans. Just sayin’ - Federalist - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:54 am: Goes hand and hand with destroying public universities in Illinois. Nice fit! - wayward - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:57 am: Seems like SIU might want to pursue similar relationships with CCs in Indiana, Kentucky, and Missouri. - Anon Downstate - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:00 am: Face it, our university system has to compete for potential students. And we’re not very good at it. We’re far too busy making excuses. Look, Iowa has been doing a far superior job marketing to potential students than Illinois universities have been. As an example, consider something….. Do a Google search on “ISU Entrepreneurship” (looking for Illinois State University Entrepreneurship”) and see what happens. And then from the results, look at the comparable websites. My results came up a 4-2-4 (Iowa-Illinois-Iowa) on the first page. And remember, a high percentage of Google search users never go beyond the first page. And that’s just one tiny example…… And it’s been like this for a long time. Truth of the matter is that Illinois higher education is ’stuck in the mud’ in the ways we ‘market’ our product. It’s not just about money. It’s more about creativity. And from up close, it’s lacking in the Illinois university system. - Annonin' - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:14 am: Sadly most who leave the state do not come back after graduation. Dunn makes good points The better point is why BigBrain and his SuperStars have done nothing but pulverize colleges and universities. Very curious path a crew that wants to restore prosperity to the state. H* BigBrain can’t even get his super task force (you know the “hey look at me not Andy Manar” group) to add higher ed funding to their “to do” They are pitiful - My New Handle - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:18 am: The ICCB is chaired by a Rauner appointee, as are a few other board members. They had to approve this agreement, so apparently the governor is okay with this. Many community colleges have transfer agreements, similar to the one with Iowa, in place with regional universities. As pointed out above, cynically perhaps, there is real uncertainty about continued availability and viability of some public universities. If this Iowa agreement helps students further their education at a university that they know will be around for next few years, then students benefit. Too bad Illinois public universities and their potential students have to live with this uncertainty. It is too costly now and will be moreso in future. - City Zen - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:18 am: ==This was inked by the same folks who do our trade negotiations with China.== Have you seen UIUC’s enrollment lately? That ink dried long ago… https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/01/07/u-illinois-growth-number-chinese-students-has-been-dramatic - Last Bull Moose - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:20 am: Cheers to the ICCB. Fewer students are going to spend their first two years at a 4 year college. Don’t complain. Adapt. Develop strong majors and have people finish at your school. Maybe develop a 3 year bachelor’s /master’s degree. You might go to a 7 year M.D. degree (Oxford has done this for years ). Part of marketing is creating something people want. That’s different from selling what you have. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:26 am: What’s exciting and heartwarming for me with this are the calls for universities to do better now, as Gov. Rauner funded state universities at a level of zero. Other than Rauner not finding state universities, please state universities, do better. - 100 miles west - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:34 am: Did this transfer long ago. Was painless, and the folks in Iowa City actually wanted you to go to school there. They were friendly. At the time the in-state schools were not particularly interested or friendly to CC graduates. This was the reason for SSU and GSU. No Illinois schools wanted CC graduates. I hope that has changed. - Mr. Smith - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:40 am: The Illinois Articulation Initiative was created to help students move from community college to a 4-year institution (see their website at http://www.itransfer.org/). So parents and students need to be smart when thinking through options and use the system that has been set up to benefit them. And the cost savings in finishing those two years at a CC are significant versus a 4-year institution. At my institution, those 60 credit hours will cost you and your student about $9,000 in tuition and fees (not counting books). That’s less than the cost of 1 year at a 4-year institution. And the quality of instruction at my institution measures up well against what they would get at a 4-year college - comparisons of academic performance of our transfers vs. students who started at the 4-year college have been consistently favorable. Now if BVR will put money where his mouth is and fund us at something more than subsistence level, we can make sure we keep our quality high. The community colleges and ICCB want students to be successful wherever they get their bachelor’s degree from. It’s all about students. If we don’t keep them and what they need in front of everything we do, then who is to blame if they don’t come to us? - Oneman - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:43 am: POW – To answer your question, which school would you attend between Illinois and Iowa, the answer is ILLINOIS because it is a superior university academically. If you base your college choice if someone is “nice” to you versus a school is the correct choice academically, I really don’t know what to tell you. Having just gone through this process with my oldest and watching her friends do the same I think you give new high school graduates a lot of credit for the evaluation of where they want to go to school in terms of pure academics. But lets take your statement at face value. There are situations where that may not be the best choice. For example if you want to go to medical school… Wait, wait why wouldn’t you want to go to the best undergrad program possible if you want to go to medical school? Because medical schools give virtually no weight to the ‘quality’ of the school you went to as a undergrad, they weigh it about the same as if you grew up in a urban vs rural area. They care about your grades and your biochem grades and your GMAT score. My daughter was in a program that a local doctor runs that draws kids from all over the country about attending medical school and one of the biggest things he said was “Go to the school where you have the best chance of getting the best grades” and also don’t apply your AP credits or any transfer credits from HS take those classes in college and get the A instead. But hey medical school that’s a bit of a fluke…. But even all that aside, I want my kid to go someplace where they feel genuinely wanted. Be it a school or a job or anything in life. Heck U of Chicago has reached out more to my Sophomore than all the state schools did combined to my daughter who is now a college Freshman. Our experience with the state schools was basically meh at best during the whole process. The state schools just didn’t seem to be putting out much of a effort. - Ret Professor - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 11:51 am: SIU has a nice database on articulation from Iowa schools to SIU… transferring gen ed is rarely a problem. Courses in the major generally are more difficult. http://tss.siu.edu/PROD/campus/articulation/articulation/step2.php?step=1 - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:05 pm: Instate tuition at UIUC is $15698, which is frozen for 4 years. Out of state tuition at Iowa is $26464, so you would need scholarships of $10,766 at Iowa for it to be a wash versus Illinois. US News 2016 rankings have Illinois at 44, Iowa 82. There you go Willy, now keep up bro!! - Keyser Soze - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:06 pm: Public universities in surrounding states have been clobbering Illinois schools for years. Maybe this will inspire a some competition. - the Patriot - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:23 pm: Randy, I live 20 miles from SIU. Your admissions office rarely contacts the tope 10% of students in our school and I know of specific instances where top 10 students don’t get a letter or a call from SIU. We are worried about a few kids going to Iowa when your making no effort to lock down student in your back yard. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:33 pm: ===US News 2016 rankings have Illinois at 44, Iowa 82.=== Let’s start here. That’s out of 310 universities. That puts Illinois in the 14 percentile, not even in the top 10% Iowa? They’re in the 26 percentile. So, the 26th percentile is awful? Illinois outside the top 10 percentile is… better? Oh, you have me on all that in-state out of state thingy, but if you’d learn a thing or three, Ipwa has the program… you take part-time hours for 12 months, then attain Iowa residency So after the 2nd year, it’s $8,325.00 You also neglected those pesky merit scholarships. Peruse these. Iowa makes sure Illinois students know them, especially the ACT and GPA ones where getting through the first year is the goal… financially. If being a snob for a non top 10 percentile college where the next 3 years you pay double what students pay at Iowa, by all means, go for it. If tell you to keep up, but you’re not even in the race, lol - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:35 pm: Here are those merit scholarships. You seem to have real problems with the Google - Piece of Work -, so, “you’re welcome” - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:35 pm: https://admissions.uiowa.edu/finances/scholarships-first-year-students - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:36 pm: – Sadly, most who leave the state don’t come back after graduation.– You’ll have to show your work on that one. That hasn’t been my life experience. The Chicago metro remains the biggest employment port of entry for Midwest college grads, Illinois natives and those from other states. Last week, the Redeye listed “official alumni bars” on the North Side for college football season. There were a dozen, each, for Iowa, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Michigan and Michgan State. A bunch each for Iowa State, Ohio State, Purdue, Indiana, Missouri and Minnesota. You don’t see that sort of thing in Milwaukee, Indy, Des Moines, Detroit, St. Louis and Cleveland. - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:52 pm: I don’t agree with Word much but I do 100% on his 12:36 post. Walk around Wrigleyville, Lakeview, etc. on a football Saturday and it is impressive how many different college bars there are. - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 12:59 pm: Willy, if you are that desperate to get a degree from the University of Iowa that you basically want to game the system, have at it. Why don’t you use that Google thingy, go to US News and let everyone know where Iowa compares to the other Big Ten schools. Maybe there is a reason why their tuition instate is $8300. On a different note, do the Giants scare you, just a little? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:10 pm: ===Willy, if you are that desperate to get a degree from the University of Iowa that you basically want to game the system, have at it.=== It’s not gaming the system when I gave you University of Iowa links. It’s there for even you to see, lol They want Illinois students. ===Why don’t you use that Google thingy, go to US News and let everyone know where Iowa compares to the other Big Ten schools. Maybe there is a reason why their tuition instate is $8300=== 1) No one is stoping you from making your point, I’m not your Google. 2) Nary a word on that 14 percentile and 26 percentile. You made a huge deal on that, but if I’m saving at least $24K and Iowa wants me, and merits scholarships can save me huge too, I’m in. ===do the Giants scare you, just a little?=== I preferred the Mets. The road won’t be easy after, Nats and Dodgers? Ugh. - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:27 pm: Enrollment figures at UIUC and applications to the school, every year, indicate students and parents WANT Illinois. But, you keep donning that Iowa cheerleader outfit. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:32 pm: ===Enrollment figures at UIUC and applications to the school, every year, indicate students and parents WANT Illinois.=== Again, snobbery isn’t paying the additional, possible $20+ thousand dollars of student loans, which is why Illinois as a state has more students going to Iowa and other states for students’ education then staying in-state. “Look at me, I’m overpaying!” ? - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:36 pm: Northwestern Michigan Illinois Wisconsin Penn State tOSU Purdue Maryland Minnesota Michigan State IOWA - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:39 pm: 74% of ALL other national schools… rank lower than Iowa. Your rationale, the lowest ranked Ivy League school is terrible, lol - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:42 pm: “Yes, Biff, Brown IS a good school I guess, if you aren’t going to the other 7 schools, I guess, right Babs, sweetie?” - Dr X - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:42 pm: I can’t believe Rauner made a pact with those collectivists to the West. Income tax = 8.9%, Corporate tax = 12%. med high property tax of 1.47%. Record enrollment at UI and ISU. For most majors, where you go doesn’t matter. It is what you do with your degree after. - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:45 pm: Seriously, that is your comeback??? If Iowa could charge $15K for tuition and have outstanding application and enrollment numbers, they would. They can’t which is why they apparently try to entice students with cheap tuition. Maybe you are one of those guys who buys his suits at Walmart and furniture at a flea market. Bravo for you. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:46 pm: Did ya forget Indiana, Rutgers, and Nebraska, or… - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:48 pm: ===If Iowa could charge $15K for tuition and have outstanding application and enrollment numbers, they would. They can’t which is why they apparently try to entice students with cheap tuition=== Cite, please? Or is that opinion? ===Maybe you are one of those guys who buys his suits at Walmart and furniture at a flea market. Bravo for you.=== So… After Illinois, at 44, no school is “Good”? What the cutoff? 50? 56? Nothing past 71? Your snobbery is showing. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 1:52 pm: You also realize, $8,325 or $15,000, or ANY amount of money is real, right? Saving $24K with one child may allow another child to GO to college? You think about that? Why do ALL 14 B1G schools tout the conference? It helps them ALL? Ever looked into Iowa’s medical school(s) Learning is more than ignoring prices and thinking Chief Illiniwek is the cat’s pajamas. There’s a reason MAP is being fought for too. Costs matter to students. You’re arguing “a list”. - Southern Dawg1 - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 2:00 pm: Community college employee here for over 10 years. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet cause I do confess to not reading every single comment, but ICCB is doing the right thing. I’ve personally written articulation agreements with SIU and I would rather bang my head on a wall than do it again. The only thing stopping SIU from forming similar agreements with ICCB is itself. Also just want to add that Oswego Willy is spot on in his first comment. - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 2:18 pm: Piece of Work @ 10:42 When being nice is backed up with a good amount of cash, why would you pay big bucks to go to a school that makes you pay significantly more and treats you as if you’re invisible? Apparently you’re not paying those tuition dollars. I’m not giving my dwindling paychecks to (can’t say the word). - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 2:22 pm: By the way, Anonymous at 2:18 is a UIUC alum. It’s most definitely not the school I graduated from so I had no problem with my kids choosing a different Big Ten school. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 2:24 pm: (Tips cap to - Southern Dawg1 -) ===If Iowa could charge $15K for tuition and have outstanding application and enrollment numbers, they would. They can’t which is why they apparently try to entice students with cheap tuition=== … or maybe having affordable higher education at a state university is a priority, and that includes not gouging out of state students, but allowing them to get educated at a reasonable “price” That MAY be part of it too. If cost is the… measure… of a school’s demand, all those gouging for-profit schools closing due to alleged fraud must be academically up there with Harvard and Stanford and better than Illinois? - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 2:28 pm: There you go again Willy. Why don’t you list tuition at the other Big Ten schools. Start with Michigan and Wisconsin. All of us await your next post with this info. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 2:34 pm: - Piece of Work - 1) I guess I’m spot on since you won’t refute my points. 2) if you have a case to make, make it. No one is stopping you. 3) “There you go again Willy.” There’s no “go again” without whatever you think your point is. Reagan would have a point, you se to think that IS a point. - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 2:42 pm: Anon@2:18 I paid those $ myself at UIUC long ago and I paid for my kids in the last 10 years. My kids had great experiences and they didn’t mention once people not being “nice” to them. So, been there, done that. - ArchPundit - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:00 pm: Working at a Community and Technical College (outside of Illinois), let me give the scenario that is the most likely. In state schools feel that students should just take the credits they give them and come to their school. U of Iowa saw the opportunity to attract more students and found a way to count more credits and make the transfer process seamless. In-state schools didn’t. I can get an articulation with some of the private schools in my area done in a week, but anything with an in-state is like pulling teeth. The question is not what is good for SIU, it is a question of what is good for ICCB’s students. If SIU is upset, pursue a similar agreement. - ArchPundit - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:04 pm: ==I empathize with Dunn’s frustration but the needs of the students have to come first. I have none whatsoever. Make it easy to transfer as many credits as possible to Southern instead of complaining about another state doing a better job. - ArchPundit - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:09 pm: ===Community college employee here for over 10 years. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet cause I do confess to not reading every single comment, but ICCB is doing the right thing. I’ve personally written articulation agreements with SIU and I would rather bang my head on a wall than do it again. The only thing stopping SIU from forming similar agreements with ICCB is itself. Preach. While I haven’t worked with SIU, I know the exact kind of place. The sense of entitlement to students without any effort to attract the students and constant barriers to accepting credits. We had one four year college challenge us why we weren’t sending students. We pointed out the four year accepted too few courses and they were offended. - Oneman - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:18 pm: Just enjoying this rare instance of agreeing with OW…. Guess Iowa has a good rep in SD 308, we send a lot of kids there. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:34 pm: - Oneman - My 308 friend, glad this makes your day. I had heard when attending the Oswego - Oswego East game (Oswego varsity won 21-3) that Oswego East’s RB was an Iowa commit. - Skeptical - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:38 pm: When making a college choice, cost matters. To make price the major factor, however, is short sighted. Illinois is ranked 10 among national public universities - Iowa 33. My daughter just graduated from Illinois and her experiences included a summer of field research in India and a summer internship at the U.S. Embassy in Paris. Iowa is a good school and has a better football team. Illinois is a world class institution. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:42 pm: ===My daughter just graduated from Illinois and her experiences included a summer of field research in India and a summer internship at the U.S. Embassy in Paris. Iowa is a good school and has a better football team. Illinois is a world class institution.=== So… you’re saying Iowa doesn’t have a study abroad… …can’t get anyone interning in the embassy system? That’s interesting. - Yesterday's Chairman - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:45 pm: You know, Illinois’ public universities have not really valued community college students for decades. The U of I and SIU in particular have created artificial barriers for students wanting to transfer. ICCB’s main interest is in its students and their opportunity, not in somehow padding the enrollments of Illinois universities. If Illinois students want to go to Iowa, it’s ICCB’s job to help facilitate that path through these articulation agreements. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:46 pm: Iowa at 33 puts it in the 75 percentile of 133 schools rated. Top quarter? Hmm. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 3:48 pm: It appears Iowa has study abroad… https://international.uiowa.edu/study-abroad - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:00 pm: After reading through this… lengthy… back and forth on the merits of these two fine public universities, I move that our two combatants be forced to sit through a full admissions presentation for both schools. Having done this a few times recently (for both in-state and out of state schools), I can say they do get pretty mind numbing after a while. - JS Mill - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:01 pm: =Illinois is ranked 10 among national public universities - Iowa 33. My daughter just graduated from Illinois and her experiences included a summer of field research in India and a summer internship at the U.S. Embassy in Paris. Iowa is a good school and has a better football team. Illinois is a world class institution.= Eureka College does the same thing. Does that make it world class? Admit that this is highly subjective and move on. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:03 pm: - Ron Burgundy - Will there be pie? I’ll only go if there’s pie. I have to guess visiting universities, must be, as you say, mind numbing. Lots to learn about. - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:04 pm: Funny how Willy minimizes or all together dismisses the views of people who had kids graduate from UIUC and/or the poster personally graduated from the school. It’s okay to pretend you are the smartest person in the room on most things, but you have to know your limitations man. - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:06 pm: -I have to guess visiting universities, must be, as you say, mind numbing. Lots to learn about.- I wish these were campus visits. That would be interesting. The locales for what I am describing have been high school auditoriums and hotel ballrooms. - ArchPundit - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:07 pm: Most of us who work in Higher Ed don’t take rankings too seriously other than admissions folks who are a different breed. The methodologies are fairly flawed and it really comes down to what is the best fit for the student. If you are doing engineering, Ag, some other areas of STEM, I think University of Illinois is probably great for most students. In other areas, like social sciences students may have a good experience, but they also might be lost in the numbers. U of Illinois also tends to have courses that are barriers. Calc was often that way though I have no idea if it still is. Other schools take different approaches. What I would suggest is that students and parents should really look at the student and how the succeed the best and feel most comfortable more than a ranking or a reputation. - ArchPundit - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:11 pm: ===I have to guess visiting universities, must be, as you say, mind numbing. Lots to learn about. Ron has a good point here–the presentations are pretty mind numbing overall. The few good ones really stick out. Visiting is often much better, but you have to start somewhere. Yesterday’s Chairmen–exactly. SIU’s complaint ignores the role SIU had in creating the incentive to go with out of state universities. Beyond that, each student should have the opportunity to look for their best fit in-state or not. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:11 pm: - Piece of Work - Make a case. Don’t make it about me. Otherwise you have no case. - Trapped in the 'burbs - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:11 pm: While gridlock in Springfield damages the state universities in Illinois, other states continue to attract Illinois students. The damage done by this impasse will last decades. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:32 pm: To the Post, What is happening with the CC and Iowa isn’t the Community Colleges deciding that students need to make sure their credits are going to work to become students of Typewriter Repair at the Rocco-Clubbo School. Iowa is a B1G university, offering a reasonably priced education towards a 4-year baccalaureate and using this stars as a feeder for students. The snobbery of “value” and the pride of expense and even generational pride doesn’t dismiss… Rauner isn’t funding state universities. Universities outside Illinois are continuing to pounce. SIU is perplexed. … and Iowa isn’t a bottom shelf institution, arguably in the top quarter of similar measures universities in America. Dismissing that Iowa isn’t “Illinois” when Illinois is also facing serious funding issues currently, while the state sends more students out of state if fool hearty. This agreement continues to say… “Find the best deal elsewhere, and get a quality education outside Illinois with our own CCs helping that cause.” - Oneman - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:34 pm: OW — yeah, we will get Oswego next year for sure…. The growing trend of kids going to school out of state didn’t start in the last two years folks. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:41 pm: - Oneman - They call it a trend for a reason, this isn’t new or just in the last two years, but these last 18 months, it’s become apparent to people looking at state universities, they know that our state universities aren’t getting state funding, purposely. News reports of grass not being mowed, professors moving on, local news even talking about the crunch being felt in the towns themselves. The acceleration is artificially being done. The trend has been continual and constant for longer than the past few years. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 4:42 pm: - Oneman - I’ll look forward to that game next year. Oswego East will beat Oswego, it’s now just “when”. Much respect. - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 5:04 pm: Yet, UIUC has had back to back record freshmen enrollment classes. Don’t let facts stop you. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 5:15 pm: And yet Iowa State continues to add and break enrollment records… with Illinois residents as their main target. Oh I won’t let the facts get in the way, thanks. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 5:18 pm: Then there’s this - Piece of Work - https://capitolfax.com/2016/08/26/weve-been-a-sorry-state-for-long-time/ Let’s not forget Rauner zeroing out funding for Illinois universities. Yep, I won’t let facts like these and this agreement with Iowa get in the way. At all. - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 5:28 pm: In addition to Iowa State, UIowa continues to increase it’s incoming freshman class every year and students entering have higher high school GPAs and ACTs every year. They’re on the upswing. - Skeptical - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 6:08 pm: Of course Iowa has study abroad - but neither of the experiences I mentioned in my prior post were study abroad programs. Anyone can sign up for study abroad. These were competitive - and Iowa had no students at the Embassy. Being in the top quartile is good, but some students aim higher. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 6:21 pm: Aim higher? Hmm. Higher enrollment. I tried to be polite. But, holding this off… sorry http://ow.ly/zd52304Wbfx Looks like those high standards were lowered? From the link… Novermber, 20… 2015. “After years of pursuing higher-paying international students and watching in-staute enrollment fall, the University of Illinois’ flagship campus shifted course this year, increasing financial aid for students from Illinois but also taking the unusual step of accepting lower test scores.” More, but not… “higher” So, lowering scores, I don’t recall Iowa lowering scores. Don’t let the facts… get in the way of lowering standards? - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 6:34 pm: Compare crime rates on both campuses. Where would you want your child to attend? There’s far more to the picture than winning competitions for embassy assignments. - Flyer - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 7:05 pm: Maybe the GA will realize that continued under funding of higher Ed in Illinois is only going to make out of state options even more attractive. - Skeptical - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 8:12 pm: Iowa average ACT 26, Illinois 28. As per the article, Illinois made a decision to admit more students from under-represented groups. Iowa made the decision to attract higher ACT scores with scholarships and it’s still lower than Illinois. If crime was the issue, who would attend the U of Chicago? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 8:15 pm: No, - Skeptical -, Illinois lowered its standards. That’s what happened. Lower to that quartile. I guess Illinois is aiming lower. Don’t let the fact… of lowering standards be explained away. - Piece of Work - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:50 pm: Skeptical, no matter how many facts you present, no matter how many first hand experiences we all have and how many experiences we hear from other parents and students, it doesn’t matter. We are dealing with the Dos Equis man, the most amazing man in the world. I don’t think Al Gore invented the Internet, it was Willy!! - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 6, 16 @ 10:56 pm: - Piece of Work - Illinois lowered its standards, and raised its numbers with the lower standards. I tried to be polite, but the ignorance to that, and this ignoring that Iowa is poaching with CCs help, even after lowering standards. You really need to keep up. It’s not about me. You need arguments that don’t include me. You refuted none, asked if I shopped at Wal-Mart for suits, and yet every time you thought you knew… Don’t let the facts, get in the way of you making it about me, lol - Chucktownian - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 8:23 am: You’re just trading one 500 person 100-level class experience for another. If you call that higher education, have at it I guess. - Anonymous - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 8:52 am: As a UIUC alum, ranking or not my kids had a far superior experience at UIowa in every way shape and form than I did at UI and their friends at UIUC are having now. Sorry. After you get that great job (that my Iowa kids got) out of college, no one cares where you went. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.