91 Comments - MSIX - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:09 am: =“Unless we’re going to get rid of higher education in large parts at the state, close major universities or stop providing health insurance to new (public) employees, there’s not going to be enough cutting that can be done to balance the state’s budget,” he says.= That may indeed be “The Plan.” - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:12 am: ===“Unless we’re going to get rid of higher education in large parts at the state, close major universities or stop providing health insurance to new (public) employees, there’s not going to be enough cutting that can be done to balance the state’s budget,” he (Msall) says.=== Welp… When Rauner closes Chicago State AND Eastern… then discredits Western so the “glitch gets fixed” and Souther is asked “You get one campus, pick”… a budget can work. Why won’t Raunef just say, “I want state universities closed?” I mean, Rauner has Raunerites in the General Assembly, the represent Western or Eastern voting against their universities. If the towns that host universities think this isn’t real, then I’m sure someone like Rep. Hammond, who votes against Western, will sleep easy… not just in weekends. Once a university closes, it will be too late. - Fusion - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:12 am: ==close major universities or stop providing health insurance to new (public) employees== I’ve always thought a tax increase was a must. But if our “leaders” truly lack the political will to increase taxes, you gotta do what you gotta do. - Langhorne - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:13 am: But, but, term limits. Madigan, bad. Bad, bad, bad. Dems are bad. We will solve all problems after the election, they promised. - wordslinger - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:13 am: –“Unless we’re going to get rid of higher education in large parts at the state, close major universities or stop providing health insurance to new (public) employees, there’s not going to be enough cutting that can be done to balance the state’s budget,” he says.– I’m pretty sure the wheels are already in motion on that. Those kind of thing don’t happen by accident, even if certain politicians words don’t match their actions. - VanillaMan - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:14 am: Yeah - but we just enact everything in the Turnaround Agenda, we’ll gain 1.4% and Brucie promised magic would follow! Right Brucie? Right? Thank heavens that Brucie is a persistent rascal! You believe in magic? Move over Roland! There’s a new magic man in town! - Federalist - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:17 am: “Unless we’re going to get rid of higher education in large parts at the state, close major universities or stop providing health insurance to new (public) employees, there’s not going to be enough cutting that can be done to balance the state’s budget,” he says. Interesting that public universities and state employees were specifically targeted in this report. That pretty much tells one the direction the Civic Committee would like to take. And by the way that that won’t even come close to covering the budget gap. I feel rather confident that Rauner agrees with them and I doubt that Madigan or Cullerton care either when it comes right down to it. - Honeybear - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:17 am: Bottom line: Rauner refused to negotiate a budget unless the “reforms” of the Turnaround Agenda were passed. Irrefutable fact The “reforms” of the Turn Around Agenda were mainly to destroy Labor, which in turn would cripple the DEMS. It had very little to do with economic growth by their own admission only increasing growth by 1.4% Irrefutable Fact THUS the pain and destruction of a year and a half without a budget which was added to an already dire financial situation (Yes brought about by Madigan, Quinn, Blagovich, and the DEMS) has brought us to financial ruin. At the start of the Rauner administration there was a choice. Rauner chose Ragnarok, the final battle which destroys the world. All because he believed that the rebirth would be possible. Ragnarok, Gov. Rauner is a Norse myth. As is a rebirth from this destruction. Things are a lot worse than people are being told. We are witnessing the collapse. All for Rauners’ dream of the destruction of Labor - South of Sherman - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:17 am: Thanks, Captain Obvious! Seriously — everyone with the ability to affect this issue knows this already. They just don’t care. - Anon - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:17 am: It’s not that we’re digging a hole. The people of Illinois agree that the services we’re paying for are essential which is why they haven’t been cut, and courts agree that pensions ’shall not be diminished.’ Digging a hole isn’t the right metaphor. We have a hole and we’re refusing to get the dirt to fill it — and not only that, some of our elected officials don’t believe in the shovels and trucks required to transport the dirt to our hole. The metaphor of digging a hole suggests that we were on level ground to begin with. We weren’t. Meanwhile, every day I get mailed adds by the GOP telling me that their candidates will balance the budget and oppose new taxes because they apparently don’t think ethics, honest, or our institutions matter as long as they get a W. ===Why won’t Raunef just say, “I want state universities closed?”=== OW, I think he’s discovered that he can say whatever he wants and do whatever he wants and the consequences to those actions aren’t severe. There’s no penalty for lyin’ to the public and no reward for being honest. He said it himself — he learned his lesson. He needs to improve his message. Meanwhile, millions of people in Illinois are happy to believe that their giant hole can be solved by some other means than filling it. Gambling in this state is treated like some sort of magic revenue fairy in spite of all of the evidence that demonstrates it’s a net economic loss for the communities that rely on that revenue. - wegotduped - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:18 am: I’m just surprised at how many people that feel that Rauner is doing the right thing. I was in a conversation last week with a pro-Rauner person and I asked him just how will his turn around agenda save the state money? No answer of course. I think the reason the masses haven’t risen is just the general all-around flustration with the state, the country, and polititians in general… - Truthteller - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:18 am: And surely closing or shrinking these universities which are major, if not the major, employers in their communities will shrink the unemployment rate. Right? - RNUG - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:19 am: == or stop providing health insurance to new (public) employees, == They’re just going to stop paying for employee health insurance … - FED UP - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:25 am: The thing is, those premiums still come out every two weeks for Ins. and pension. - Honeybear - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:26 am: “Now the thought Both of lost happiness and lasting pain Torments him; round he throws his baleful eyes That witnessed huge affliction and dismay Mixed with obdurate pride and steadfast hate: At once as far as angels ken he views The dismal situation waste and wild, A dungeon horrible, on all sides round As one great furnace flamed, yet from those flames No light, but rather darkness visible” Milton’s Illinois - Emily Miller - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:26 am: Yup. - Fusion - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:28 am: Property tax receipts will go down significantly in Charleston, Mattoon, Macomb, and other towns that will be affected when these schools close. For most of the people in those areas, their home is the most valuable thing they own. And it’s value is about to decrease significantly if this happens. Businesses in those towns will go under. Many, many ripple effects to closing down those schools. - RNUG - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:30 am: -FED UP-, I’m not referring to the current mess where they delay paying the claims. I’m referring to the apparent goal that the State wants to reduce it’s portion of the employee health insurance premium to as little as possible, say maybe $100 or $200 a month or possibly even zero. Part of the fight over the AFSCME contract is the increases to the employee and dependent payments, plus higher deductibles and co-pays. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:32 am: ===There’s no penalty for lyin’ to the public and no reward for being honest.=== That’s pretty doggone good right there. But here’s the nuance… Rauner’s “truthfulness”… or lack thereof… is a tick. Rauner could be truthful and it could be great, but even THEN… Rauner shows he just can’t tell truths. But your line there… that the politics of Rauner, maybe not all his nuances persona, but that’s the politics. Well said. - Earnest - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:33 am: >I’m just surprised at how many people that feel that Rauner is doing the right thing. I was in a conversation last week with a pro-Rauner person and I asked him just how will his turn around agenda save the state money? No answer of course. I think the reason the masses haven’t risen is just the general all-around flustration with the state, the country, and polititians in general… Agreed. I had the same conversation yesterday, though it came around to wanting to stop Madigan from having so much power. I do understand people being frustrated with him. Ironically, though, this conversation occurred at a fundraiser for a human services organization. - A Jack - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:35 am: He might try to stop health insurance for state employees, but then the state would have to pay a hefty penalty under the Affordable Care Act. The penalty is $2620 per employer if just one employee qualifies for a health insurance subsidy, so $100 million or so. - Jocko - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:39 am: I’m tired of getting campaign fliers from candidates that say “REFORM!” when the really mean “RENEGE!” - Sir Reel - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:42 am: Time to retire the phrase, public service, when referring to politicians. They’re not doing anyone a service. - Federalist - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:45 am: FYI, The Illinois State Budget in Brief for FY 1970: $4,447 million of which $2,907 was from GRF: Appropriations below are from GRF: K-12 962 million Health 256 million Higher Education 606 Public Assistance 719 million Public Safety 65 million. Other State appropriations 485 million Population 11.1 million Cumulative rate of inflation- 520% from 1970 to 2016 Would be interesting to do some comparisons of today’s budget except it is so difficult to get a real budget. - Anon221 - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 10:48 am: Rauner Wins… in his mind, every day in every way. No re-up of the tax increase- he wins a leverage point. ILGA standing by as he freezes all contracts- he wins a leverage point. ILGA members ignoring their constituents in social services and higher ed- double score! ILGOP leaders buying the “pain means gain” mission statement- BIG returns on little investment. Trashing the State of Illinois, then promoting bonds sales- well, somebody(ies) wins there… Being a Hobbyist CEO of Illinois instead of Governor- priceless to Rauner, devastating for much of Illinois. If the ILGA, in total, allows this to play out until 2018, regardless if Rauner is re-elected or not, those who believe in his “religion” of no compassion until the competiveness is complete, then he will have successfully shifted the burden of “legacy” solely onto their shoulders. He has absolutely no skin in this game. And that is all it is to him, regardless of his statements otherwise- a game to be won. The ILGA, again in total, won some “ground” with the stopgap, but it is ground that is a swamp Rauner is happy to sell to them. So, Go Around or Go Through, but realize that the Turn Around will always be there in some form or another blocking advances. - Robert the 1st - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:00 am: So we’re going to have tier 3 employees? Lousy retirement and no health insurance? Suppose IL will still be on the hook for $2k per employee due to ACA. - Magic carpet ride - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:10 am: Like anon221 outlined rauners plan is starting to come together. Destroy any state entity, blame Madigan and move to the next destruction. When there is no defending our entities rauner wins. Heck the legislature won’t even fight for their own constitutionally protected pay. - James Knell - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:15 am: What is this??? Grim Friday at Capitol Fax? If you don’t like what’s going down, get off your butts and go knock on some doors. It’s a nice day out. - DuPage Dave - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:21 am: The problem seems easy enough to solve. First, agree on some cuts. Second, raise revenue. Third, elect a different governor. Repeat until solved. - Honeybear - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:23 am: –So we’re going to have tier 3 employees? Lousy retirement and no health insurance?– Nope, the workforce will collapse. What competent person would want to work for the state right now? Seriously, every job, every employee, is precious and provides a hedge from that collapse. Destroying the workforce is something a Venture Capitalist does. No sane CEO would intentionally cause the collapse of his/her workforce. Maybe LOL Illinois is the business community realizing that? - Robert the 1st - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:42 am: Honeybear- I’m not sure about the Metro-East, but in central IL there are still lots of people more than willing to accept tier 2 positions with the state. No insurance could change that I suppose. - Blue dog dem - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:43 am: I hate to be repetetive, but the electorate wants significant spending cuts before significant tax increases. Since the courts have mandated so much of our spending, it is indeed going to be painful to both state employees and those needing social services to get that blend. But the TA should not be part of the equation. - Deft Wing - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:46 am: –So we’re going to have tier 3 employees? Lousy retirement and no health insurance?– The above is an expression of disingenuousness or ignorance. State employees have Cadillac-like benefits; disproportionately higher than those funding them, i.e. mostly private taxpayers. It’s time for market-based benefits. And that’s coming, one way or another. - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:47 am: ==but the electorate wants significant spending cuts== Yes, but give them a list of what they want cut and that “significant” turns into very little. Everybody wants cuts . . . as long as it doesn’t affect them. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:49 am: ===State employees have Cadillac-like benefits; disproportionately higher than those funding them, i.e. mostly private taxpayers.=== And these Cadillac-like benefits are? Be specific. - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:49 am: ==State employees have Cadillac-like benefits;== My mom worked in the private sector and had benefits equal or greater to what state employees have. You say they are “cadillac.” What should they be? ==It’s time for market-based benefits== What does that even mean? Again, what should those benefits look like? - AC - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:50 am: ==I hate to be repetetive, but the electorate wants significant spending cuts before significant tax increases.== Based on years of polling reported here on the Capitol Fax blog, it’s safe to say that the electorate wants expanded services and tax decreases, which helps explain how we ended up in this mess. - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:50 am: ==mostly private taxpayers.== And that’s just a silly statement. There are taxpayers. Period. Doesn’t matter where they work. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:51 am: - Demoralized - I see I’m not the only one wondering what’s behind these “buzz words” - Blue dog dem - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:52 am: Dem/AC. I agree. Its the hypocrisy of the world in which we live. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:53 am: How do we distinguish “private” taxpayers from… what? I’ve yet to have the State or the Feds ask in a tax return if I’m a “private” taxpayer… I’ve yet to purchase anything and the sales tax was then put into a “private” or … what… tax pool. - Robert the 1st - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:55 am: =And these Cadillac-like benefits are?= There’s some make believe going on by several people today. The state spends something like $18,000/year on health insurance per employee correct? My employer spent just under $5k on mine in 2015. And I’d argue I have good insurance. - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 11:56 am: Robert: So since you don’t have what someone else has then they shouldn’t either. Got it. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:00 pm: ===So since you don’t have what someone else has then they shouldn’t either. Got it.=== This. The more people look at this as “well, I don’t have… ” Then go work for the State. One of the reason pensions are guaranteed in the Constitution is because “well, we’ll just take that away” No. It’s guaranteed. - Blue dog dem - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:01 pm: Since we started talking insurance…what gives with these rate increases this year. - Robert the 1st - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:01 pm: Bit me D. I’m happy with my insurance. My point is there’s probably room for savings and to pretend there’s no difference between state employee insurance and most other’s is playing make believe. - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:03 pm: Great argument Robert. Very adult like. You’ve made an argument. So back it up. What should the benefits look like? I don’t care if someone has better insurance or if they have insurance that is worth. Unlike you I’m not going around whining about it. So, what should the insurance look like. Give us some numbers. - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:04 pm: “insurance that is worse” - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:06 pm: ==pretend there’s no difference between state employee insurance and most other’s is playing make believe== And nobody said there wasn’t a difference. What has been said is what that insurance should look like if you are so angry about it. Tell us. - Ghost - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:06 pm: It has a gross and misleading error. prior ronthe state sunsetting the tax increase all current operations were being paid and there was extra miney being applied to the backlog of bills. also it completely ignore the economic collapse and implies the only teason for economic problems is state spending. The teo biggest sources are the economic collapse and the sunsetting of the tax increase. somone needs to brave up and actually point out a good starting point is to restore the prior tax rate. - Deft Wing - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:08 pm: –And these Cadillac-like benefits are?– In summary, they are defined benefit plans with compounding cost of living increases … which are really just guaranteed rates of return. Show me an equivalent private sector benefit plan. Please. Additionally, highly subsidized health insurance, sometimes even “free” for actives and even retirees. Oh wise OW, PLEASE show me where a non-governmental worker (yes, a “private” one) can get some of that action too ! Here’s a link identifying and analyzing, in DETAIL, public vs. private compensation/fringe benefits. I am counting out loud on the coming ad hominem attack on the authors of the piece because … when you can’t argue facts, attack! http://rebootillinois.com/2015/06/14/americans-for-prosperity-study-illinois-public-workers-benefits-make-them-better-paid-than-private-sector-counterparts/ - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:12 pm: - Deft Wing - Go work for the state. Who’s stopping you? If it’s that much greater, go apply online. - Blue dog dem - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:13 pm: Kinda like a double stuffed Oreo. Double posting. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:15 pm: - Deft Wing - If your current job has a mirror in a state government position, then apply. More salary? Great Better benefits? Awesome Better retirement? Outstanding Then do it. Why won’t you? - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:16 pm: ==Why won’t you?== Because they prefer to lament about what someone else has. Apparently they are preaching an “Equality Doctrine.” I don’t have it so you shouldn’t either. Or should we call it the “It’s not Fair” doctrine. - Deft Wing - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:20 pm: Sort of an ungracious concession, OW. You asked for details and then got them. Our state’s a financial mess and its compensation plans for state workers is a part of that mess — pensions particularly, where unfunded liabilities exceed $115 billion. The state’s health care plan is absolutely a black hole of unnecessary expense that is simply far too expensive and nowhere near market-level. But those are pesky little details which you often times ask for but then ignore … because it appears your time is better spent issuing smug replies. - Robert the 1st - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:21 pm: Extra defensive today huh D? It couldn’t possibly be people trying to have a rational discussion on how tax dollars are being spent in a financially failing state? No, it’s just jealousy. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:28 pm: Not a concession at all. You said they are better, you made a “point” they are better… albeit “averages” and not specific, job to job, but let’s say “Job A” mirrors your job… You didn’t make the point… they aren’t warranted. That’s the rub. If anything, me pointing out to you how “great” it is, instead of looking for state employment, you’re complaining. You’re complaining, but they aren’t unwarranted. You should be thanking me. You can apply online. - wordslinger - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:30 pm: DW, the state has not paid a dime in group health insurance coverage since Sept. 2015 (although they continue to deduct the employee share of premiums). Yet there’s still an $8 billion deficit in FY17. Is that the kind of market solution to fiscal problems you’re looking for? - Robert the 1st - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:32 pm: Willy, this is a political blog, no? Deft Wing believes that part of IL’s problems is employee compensation. You asked for examples. He provided. You told him to get a job with the state and join what he believes is causing some of the problems. Not good on you. - City Zen - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:32 pm: =Go work for the state. Who’s stopping you?== Isn’t the reverse true? What’s stopping someone from leaving their job with the state? What’s preventing a CTU teacher from teaching outside Chicago? I don’t mind if state employees get better benefits than me. That is, if it’s affordable. We’ve got a $110B pension debt that says otherwise. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:34 pm: ===…pensions particularly, where unfunded liabilities exceed $115 billion.=== Comstituionally guaranteed. You know that already… ===The state’s health care plan is absolutely a black hole of unnecessary expense that is simply far too expensive and nowhere near market-level.=== Contractually argued and agreed. Rauner won. He wants things lowered, negotiate with Labor. That’s how it works, you know. ===But those are pesky little details which you often times ask for but then ignore … === Nah. I understand that pesky constitution is there to be adhered to, and I know that negotiated agreements with Rauner seem to be stalled. I don’t think I was ignoring anything, lol - Deft Wing - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:34 pm: You just reminded me of the late, great George Carlin’s point about end-game of arguing with an idiot, OW. I’m out. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:39 pm: - Robert the 1st - With respect, CMS and what they are paying employees depends on the labor contracts for some, and for others, the structured scale CMS itself has for employment. Job A pays … Job B, a union job pays… Then there’s Veterans’ preference, to name but ONE consideration. My point is… things are never as simple as… “They make too much! They get too much! I pay taxes!” Have you forgotten, AFSCME… I said and say often… “Elections have Consequences” It’s as though this jealousy of what others “have” makes people forget what “hurdles” are actually there. - golface18 - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:42 pm: Deft. Don’t know what line of business your in but I can tell you I made twice what I make now in the private industry prior to joining the state with the same job with slightly better benefits. So I traded salary for benefits, which was my choice. So not all jobs are as you speak of. - Robert the 1st - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:45 pm: All that’s true Willy. But it’s becoming quit the trend here when someone tries to discuss sensitive issues like state employee benefits other posters childishly and immediately turn the conversation personal and accuse them of jealousy and tell them to apply for the state. Very nonconstructive. - JS Mill - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:52 pm: =It’s time for market-based benefits. And that’s coming, one way or another.= =nowhere near market-level.= You love the “market” nonsense until it works against you. Specifically (something you clearly do not understand) the market for superintendents is one in which there is a declining pool of qualified candidates. Lower supply than demand (market forces), there fore salaries and benefits are growing, yet individuals like you repeatedly rip the compensation level of superintendents. But that is driven by “market levels”, so which is it? The answer is you want to make a choice that suits you not live and die by the same sword. You sir, are an economic hypocrite and coward. You most certainly are not interested in a growth economy, you simply want no one to have more than you. BTW- Our “market” includes State Farm, Country Companies, and Caterpillar. They have such good benefits that our staff with spouses employed by them do not take our benefits. By your rules, I need to up my benefits package. Oh, yes. One other thing. The “market” you refer to would also include public employees and their benefits, so it would be part of what determines the “market”, except in your case you don’t really want a “market”, you just want to stick it to people. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:52 pm: - Robert the 1st - More than fair. Then let’s discuss that pensions are guaranteed and there’s yet a reasonable and constitutional way, “moving forward” to get that “right”, and that pensions from today, and back to 1970 and .., So there’s that… The discussion of “fixing” that needs to start there. Benefits? I’ve said, elections have consequences. When Rauner decides to get that agreement with Labor on heath insurance, other labor didn’t have as a hanging point, then we can see where it’s at… Agreed to also. So, labor peace, like I asked months and months ago… is essential. Those discussions? - Retired Leech - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 12:56 pm: I am retired from the state and now work in the private sector. My insurance benefits, for me and my family, are better and cheaper than what I had as a state worker, and my doctors are paid promptly. - Pelonski - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:03 pm: My view as a state employee is that it doesn’t matter whether I’m overpaid, underpaid, of fairly paid relative to my peers when it comes to the state of Illinois’ finances. The bottom line is that the state has serious financial problems which require tough choices. We are going to need to substantially raise taxes AND cut spending to fix the problem, and it’s hard for me to say my compensation shouldn’t be reduced when that means more reductions need to be made to social service agencies, education, and infrastructure. That being said, it’s not reasonable to ask state employees to shoulder the burden of major cuts in compensation all at once. People have financial obligations which are based on their current compensation. If you start making drastic changes, it is going to put them in financial distress. This is especially true for the lower paid employees who may not have as much of a cushion. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:07 pm: - Robert the 1st - And since we’re worried anout it getting “personal” in the past, hows about no more… “… My 401K isn’t guaranteed… why do state workers…” So when someone fails to recognize we ALL know 401Ks aren’t guaranteed, and that Comstitution guarantees state employee pensions… that’s whining about themselves. Inherently. Thus… “Go work for the state”… instead of childishly and immediately turn the conversation personal wants that as an absolute given due to the job, we know what one has, and what hasn’t. Is that more than fair? - Pelonski - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:10 pm: Having worked in a variety of different jobs in both the public and private sector, my view is that the benefits for highly skilled state workers are no better, and often times worse than what a comparable person in the private sector gets. The benefits for lower skilled state workers are much better than in the private sector because the private sector gives them very little. - Robert the 1st - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:13 pm: Agreed Willy. I never have said anything like that but I have seen that here too. Both angles are childish and not helping. - Arthur Andersen - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:13 pm: Deft Wing and his peers like to trot out the DB pension and “Cadillac health care”-what is that anyway? Does that mean Escalade, CTS, ATS, or what? If you what to deftly debate, learn the correct nomenclature and use it properly. I got nothing for you until you can do so. Many job candidates want to hear about one thing-”how much?” It’s all about the Benjamin’s and the benefits just aren’t as important to millennials as they were to us Boomers. - DGD - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:19 pm: ** I can tell you I made twice what I make now in the private industry prior to joining the state with the same job with slightly better benefits ** Not likely, you forget the state employee database is publicly available. Some salaries may be less, but not half. ** What’s stopping someone from leaving their job with the state? ** Because it is unlikely they would make it in the private sector. Robert - You may as well give up arguing with Dem, he’s a perfectionist when it comes to Alinsky’s rule #5. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:20 pm: ===You asked for examples. He provided. You told him to get a job with the state and join what he believes is causing some of the problems. Not good on you.=== Since you agreed with the case I made, in both instances, I don’t think it looked bad on me at all. (That’s snark) Happy Friday - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:33 pm: ==when someone tries to discuss sensitive issues like state employee benefits == Because the arguments are always “cadillac benefits” and pay that is higher than the private sector. If you believe that then I would continue to ask what those of you that believe that would like to see the salaries and benefits be (other than some undetermined “market level”). - HangingOn - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:34 pm: ==unfunded liabilities exceed $115 billion== All I can say about that statement is that the employees put in their share. It comes right out of their checks, they have no control over it. It’s not unfunded on their end. So if your employer took money out of your paycheck for, say, SS and Medicare, but then doesn’t pay what they are supposed to to the government, it is ok for you to pay it twice? I mean, it’s unfunded, must be your fault, right? - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:35 pm: ==Robert - You may as well give up arguing with Dem, he’s a perfectionist when it comes to Alinsky’s rule #5.== When you start using Alinsky you just make yourself look silly. - Demoralized - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:36 pm: ==Because it is unlikely they would make it in the private sector.== If you can make it I’d bet anyone can. - A Jack - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 1:56 pm: My state insurance co-pays are equal to national averages for health insurance. My premiums are lower, but so is my pay compared to my peers. Give me a 33% pay raise to match my peers and I will happily pay a 33% increase in health insurance premiums. It is hardly a Cadillac policy. My doctor doesn’t listen to my heart with a solid gold stethoscope. - golface18 - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 2:03 pm: DGD. No I have not forgotten about the database. Feel free to research jobs. Not all jobs pay higher in the private industry, but some do. Which was the point I was trying to make with Deft. - walker - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 2:14 pm: Been obvious for at least 18 months. - Deft Wing - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 2:27 pm: I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, that all of the responsive “arguments” for the need to reduce state employees’ fringe benefits to market based levels are either entirely anecdotal or, worse, laced with compelling reason summed up best as amounting to “oh you’re just jealous” mentalities. Good stuff there. As a reminder, below, again, is some analysis emanating from data accumulated from research. Novel stuff, I know. http://rebootillinois.com/2015/06/14/americans-for-prosperity-study-illinois-public-workers-benefits-make-them-better-paid-than-private-sector-counterparts/ Okay, resume with the ad hominem attacks and other diversions. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 2:31 pm: - Deft Wing - So you accept pensions aren’t touched, because they can’t be. You accept that? - illlinifan - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 2:33 pm: “stop paying for health insurance” Rauner will get this if rumors are true that he wants to privatize a lot of state services. - DGD - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 2:41 pm: ** If you can make it I’d bet anyone can. ** Thank you for proving my point. - Joe M - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 2:46 pm: == The state spends something like $18,000/year on health insurance per employee correct?== Last time I checked my online employee information on the CMS site, my state health insurances was priced at $11,000 per year, and of that I paid $2400 and the state paid $8600. My $2400 represents just about 22% of the total premium. The Kaiser Foundation says that the average employee share of health ins premiums for employees of large organizations is 17-18%. I’m go online and double check what I’m paying, but CMS has outsourced all of this to a Canadian firm Morneau Shepell - and I’ve temporarily misplaced the Morneau Shepell registration information. What a great way to build the Illinois economy - outsource to a Canadian firm. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 3:06 pm: - Deft Wing - ===…pensions particularly, where unfunded liabilities exceed $115 billion.=== That’s not changing. The only way that changes is paying on it. The ILSC has made that clear. - Blue dog dem - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 3:27 pm: Deft. Going to try and help out. The gov. Is going to slash social services and higher ed to pay for those crazy, vote buying promises protected by the ILSC. This is what the vast majority of past and present state workes want. I think. - striketoo - Friday, Oct 7, 16 @ 4:26 pm: Well, it’s in the Bible that we have to have 12 state funded universities and you can’t go against the Lord. Oh, I forgot it’s the taxpayer’s job to keep Charleston and Macomb alive. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.