95 Comments - Deft Wing - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:13 am: “I think both sides should be at the bargaining table” = I want to be left alone. - Stones - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:18 am: This is what the Governor was seeking all along - - way to impose his contract. If AFSCME cannot prevail in court look for more mass retirements & resignations. It may make smaller government advocates happy until they have to wait 6 months to get a FOID card. - cdog - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:22 am: I find this comment to be very odd. “On the day that the Rauner team decided the talks were deadlocked, AFSCME had proposed adding language requiring that bids from private contractors would have to “MEET THE STANDARD OF GREATER EFFICIENCY, ECONOMY OR OTHER RELATED FACTORS” — language that the administration already had made clear it opposed.” What standard did Administration propose? Less efficiency? Less economy? This is an ominous rejection of common business principles. - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:28 am: In most cases, when it is the State dealing with its’ own employees, the federal government stays out of the dispute. In that sense, state employees have less protection and rights than an employee of a private firm. So I don’t look for the NLRB to get in the middle of this one. But I do think we might see a permutation or two on the health insurance, because not all the employees affected are “state” employees. Those that work for the various school districts, including community college districts, may be deemed to be a separate class from those who work directly for the state. Going to be interesting things for a while. - AC - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:28 am: From the top to the bottom of the ticket, members of union households created this situation. To those who wouldn’t listen when I (and many others) spent our time volunteering on behalf of union friendly candidates, they that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind. Hard times are ahead, both for those that listened to their fellow union members, and those who somehow knew better. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:35 am: –Springfield-area lawmakers said the contract should be resolved at the bargaining table.– Did they hit their head on something hard? Look up the definition of “impasse.” One of the parties has asserted that no progress is possible at the bargaining table. The ILRB has concurred. Now it’s on to the courts. By the way, the phrase “budget impasse” is just completely inaccurate. It’s ridiculous to keep asserting that there’s a “budget impasse” (there’s not; they don’t even talk about the budget) and then urge people to negotiate. - Chicagonk - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:40 am: Does anyone else find the process itself frustrating? There will likely be two more sets of judges making a determination on the impasse and from previous court cases that I have read, they can review the case from scratch. The judiciary in this state tends to avoid the intense scrutiny of other branches of government, but if we are honestly going to reform as a state, we will need the judiciary to reform as well. - Liberty - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:43 am: ILRB abdicates should be the headline. - Allen D - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:45 am: How AFSCME looks to the public: we bargained for 2 years demanding what we wanted, we didn’t’ get our way. We went to Labor Review board judge and then the Review board, still didn’t’ get our way…. We will show them now, we don’t get our way, let’s go to court over it, we want it our way this is the way it has always been, find the money we want it all. Sorry AFSCME status quo has just ended…. the sooner everyone starts to realize this… the sooner we can start to build our state back up, financially secure and viable once again… You don’t always get what you want… This is called LIFE - deal with it. (AFSCME Union Card carrying Member) - Captain Illini - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:48 am: The article seems to validate what I said yesterday, in that the ILRB - rather than consideration of the administration judge’s advice merely punted because of “uncharted waters” code for “work”. That will not fly with an appeals court judge, and I’m still very interested in their (ILRB) written explanation. RNUG is right…interesting times lie ahead. - AC - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:53 am: Allen D, can you explain how removing the cost comparison requirement for contracted out work helps rebuild the states finances? As a taxpayer, costs are important, and I don’t particularly like the idea of paying more for the same services. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:54 am: I have a feeling that Honeybear will be on here soon. Honeybear - sorry for not replying to you yesterday. You are quite welcome for the commendation/recognition. I know you worked hard for Ms. Stuart and you should be commended for both your efforts and the eventual outcome. We may be on opposite sides of the coin but there is no reason to be on opposite sides of respect and decency. - Leave it to BVR - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:57 am: My guess is Rauner’s sneaky lawyers have advised him not to impose his terms right away and instead say he’s considering f his options while hoping that the statute of limitations runs out on AFSCME’s appeal. Then when the union files its appeal on the last day team Rauner will go into court and say they haven’t imposed their last, best final offer. I really hope I’m wrong about this. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:58 am: AC - but that would happen with a tax increase. Right?! If we have an income tax increase and maybe some sales/service tax increases imposed on us then we are paying more for the same. This is especially true if real cuts - and not smoke-and-mirror cuts - are agreed upon. We will as a whole be receiving LESS services for MORE contributions from the taxpaying public. - Nick Name - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:00 am: Thank you for the empty words, Rep. Jimenez. I’m sure all state employees in your district are glad to know you (don’t) have their backs. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:03 am: Guys, it’s too late. You can’t get the bullet back in the chamber. The mass retirements and defections from public service have been going on for months. I’ve been saying it for months. You cannot force out all enlisted ranks except for Seaman and Seaman recruit and “fight the ship.” All operations require competent trained personnel. Rauner in his venture capitalist wisdom has followed his procedure. Buy it Break it Sell it Step two is just about wrapped up. Problem is that Government is not a Corporation. Good job- you just killed the workforce. It doesn’t matter what happens with the union. (Well it matters to me and others but not the point I’m making) State function is going to quickly go to a crawl and then STOP! Strike or not. - Obamas Puppy - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:05 am: Wow Rich do you have to lead every AFSCME story with a IPI venom and vitriol? Since when did they become a legitimate “news” source. Come on man! - Deft Wing - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:06 am: Allen D. hits the PR angle exactly right. - Allen D - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:09 am: @ AC with regards to contracting our work, the facility in question would bid with private companies for the best price on work, for time and cost effectiveness. Many state facilities are overburdened and have been for years, this isn’t a new thing. contracting out some jobs would free up workers for jobs that just sit and waiting, this could create better efficiency in the State as a whole. we sublet work all the time now here where I work for efficiency and money… this too is not a new thing… we do it when we need to and it is cheaper all around most of time. - Jon - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:12 am: —What standard did Administration propose?— I would suspect the administration primarily objected to the “other related factors” standard, but I see issues with the efficiency and economy standards as well. The sub-contacting clause could be nullified by grievance rulings interpreting the language very broadly. Unless the terms were defined elsewhere, I can’t see a reasonable employer willing to accept such a major portion of the agreement with arbitrary standards included. - Last Bull Moose - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:12 am: The union grievances over volunteers damaged the union. What a way to win friends and influence enemies. I would have told the union to take the managed competition proposal. The work involved in structuring the managed competition bid would have slowed outsourcing while giving union members a chance to keep the job. Analysis of cost competitiveness is imprecise. The real operational gains may come from flexibility in assignment, work rules changes, and getting rid of a few poor performers. These are hard to prove in advance. - Cubs in '16 - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:12 am: If the ILRB is going to declare impasse when management refuses to budge on extreme ideology, job security in this case, then why have collective bargaining at all? Management will have free reign to remove any rights/protections it chooses without impunity. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:14 am: Team Sleep- YOU SEE ME IN THE LINE ACROSS FROM YOU? I’M WAVING MY SPEAR AT YOUR SORRY BUTT! Ha! See you in the middle ground my friend. I’m going to lick your tears! (yeah, I know, I need to work on my trash talk. Best I could do today) - justacitizen - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:16 am: === “MEET THE STANDARD OF GREATER EFFICIENCY, ECONOMY OR OTHER RELATED FACTORS” — language that the administration already had made clear it opposed.”=== I know from my experience negotiating with AFSCME at a large state agency that vague language like that is troublesome unless each of those terms is specifically defined. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:17 am: Honeybear - haha! I have no idea what you look like so I guess I could pull a Harrison Ford and grab everyone by the shirt collar while yelling, “ARE YOU HONEYBEAR?!” - wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:18 am: Allen D, how did you get that sweet gig speaking for “the public?” Who knew that “the public” was unanimous on anything? How do you determine the opinion of “the public?” Or is it just whatever pops into your head is automatically a universal truth? Try to have a little more confidence in your own point of view view that you don’t have to claim everyone thinks the same way for it to be credible. - Jimmy H - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:20 am: - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:28 am: RNUG, thank you for all your well-reasoned posts on the CAPFAX. Could you elaborate more on why you think the health insurance would be different for school employees? School employees are offered the same health insurance as State workers at the same cost. Why would that change? I think most school employees are under contracts that specify that they will have the same health insurance benefits as State workers. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:21 am: =then why have collective bargaining at all?= You still have your option to strike, always have. AFSCME first tried to change the rules of the game (arbitration bills) and is now dragging their feet. Why not strike if you’re on the right side of this? - G'Kar - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:24 am: RNUG@9:28 “Those that work for the various school districts, including community college districts, may be deemed to be a separate class from those who work directly for the state.” We in the community colleges are already a separate class. Our health insurance is controlled by the individual college Board of Trustees and we have no connection to the health coverage of state workers or university employees. - Jimmy87 - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:30 am: Would it really be that big of a deal for Sara to be Sara “R-Springfield” instead of Sara “R-Leland Grove?” Seriously. There are subdivisions in Springfield with a larger population than Leland Grove. If you live in Leland Grove you still have a Springfield mailing address, the same as if you live in Grandview or Southern View. It just seems silly to me. - Cubs in '16 - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:32 am: ===Why not strike if you’re on the right side of this?=== Personally, I would vote to strike but it’s not good for employees and it really isn’t good for people who depend on state services. You have someone like Rauner who digs in his heels against basic labor protections and we’d see a strike every 3-4 years. That’s no way to run a state. - Small Town Girl - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:34 am: What does everyone think about the fact that the administration’s Last, Best and Final all but eliminates bumping rights? Does this seem fair for the administration to be able to pick and choose tier 1 employees to lay off? or replace with contractors? - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:41 am: –you still have your option to strike, always have.– But why do that when we can make you eat the lies you’ve been purveying? You triggered the collapse. Why give you the chance to blame someone else for it. Look AFSCME has always been in the front rank. I knew I was going to get taken out in the othismos. What I can do is to not allow you to claim victory or disperse blame for the carnage YOUR SIDE CAUSED! Rauner alone has wrecked the economy of Illinois. All to destroy labor and to set up privatization. For Profit. Buy it Break it Sell it For Profit. Govenment is not a corporation A mistake that costs us all - Maximus - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:42 am: Allen D is stating things correctly in terms of perception. The state workers need private citizens to relate to them so we can all be seen as “workers”. The problem is in the private sector the workers have 401k plans, no steps, no lanes, no guaranteed raises, a 40 hour work week, etc etc. It’s hard to relate if we aren’t feeling the same. Add to that the reports of pension spiking and other nefarious ways to grab extra money from tax payers and there isn’t a feeling of unity between private workers and state workers. - Jimmy H - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:49 am: Thanks G’Kar. I had assumed all school employees were in the same boat as University employees. Does anyone know if K-12 school districts also have health insurance separate from State workers? - Demoralized - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:52 am: ==The state workers need private citizens to relate to them so we can all be seen as “workers”.== That implies that the state workers aren’t “workers.” It’s the same weird argument that tries to distinguish taxpayers from state workers. ==he problem is in the private sector the workers have 401k plans, no steps, no lanes, no guaranteed raises, a 40 hour work week, etc etc. == I wasn’t aware we had a guarantee of equality. I know individuals in the private sector that get stock options, Christmas bonuses, paid gym memberships and other things. Good for them. Every job has different benefits and perks. I don’t understand this attitude of “I don’t have it so neither should you.” - Norseman - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:52 am: === Springfield-area lawmakers said the contract should be resolved at the bargaining table. === After winning with the help of Raunerbucks, you’d think they would stop with the subterfuge that they care about their state employee constituents. Actions speak louder than words. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:57 am: I think AFSCME has every right to be angry. The Governor wasn’t willing to bargain on much of anything, but given what I directly know about negotiations Roberta Lynch didn’t do here members any favors in how she approached negotiations. The entire process was a fiasco because both sides made it that way. As for striking, I think AFSCME needs to move off of that idea. The point of a strike is to drive negotiations to a conclusion. There is no longer any need to negotiate. The state won and the contract is what it is now. Sad as it is, the game is over right now. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 10:58 am: People, try to avoid attacking each other and stick to the topic at hand. - DuPage - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:01 am: @ RNUG 9:28 === Those that work for the various school districts, including community college districts, may be deemed to be a separate class from those who work directly for the state.=== K-12 and community college employees are NOT state employees, but they are classified PUBLIC employees that are not covered by NLRB. Federal agencies quickly determine if an employee is a public employee by looking at the employee’s paycheck. If it is drawn on the state, they are a state employee. If it is drawn on a school district they are employees of that school district, (not the state). If it is drawn on a community college district they are employees of that community college district, (not the state). - Allen D - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:02 am: very true Demoralized, the contract is what it is now… let’s move on… - Maximus - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:06 am: Demoralized, Im not saying state workers aren’t workers. Im saying there is a perception that state workers have perks and benefits that generally are not available for a similar job in the private sector. The employer of the state workers (Illinois) is not doing so well financially. When this happens in the private sector it is expected that the employees of the company will have to make some sacrifices when the money is tight. I have the utmost respect for the state workers and I hope this whole thing can end with a fair deal for both the taxpayers and AFSCME. - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:06 am: == The problem is in the private sector the workers have 401k plans, no steps, no lanes, no guaranteed raises, a 40 hour work week, etc etc. It’s hard to relate if we aren’t feeling the same. == Almost all the private sector used to have pensions at one time. In some cases, they used to have health insurance until they reached Medicare age. Unionized private workers used to gain contracts with guaranteed raises, etc. With the connivance of various groups, including the government, and the creative use of bankruptcy laws, the private sector lost most of that. They were lied to, told that things like 401K’s, intended to supplement retirements, were better for retirement than pensions … and some of the workers bought into it. They were told they had to pay more for health insurance or go without, so they agreed to pay more. Now they know they were lied to and are mad about it. (Some of the grievances of the blue collar working class that showed up on election day.) And because they’ve been told that they can’t gain it back, they are envious of the government workers that managed to retain it. So -Maximus- and -Alan D- are correct that the union has a Public Relations problem. They should have given on the relatively little stuff while trying to hold the line on on the sub-contracting. They should have even moved some on the health insurance, say maybe halfway. Had they done so, the union could claim they were the ones being reasonable since all they wanted on the subcontracting was to make sure the State didn’t overpay for services and bring back no bid contracts awarded to political cronies. But they forfeited that claim when they cling to the 40 hour issue, the no increase in health insurance, etc. Maybe the union was holding that back as bargaining chips, but if they were, they sure misplayed their hand. The way I see it, the union is now in a lose/lose/lose situation, even if they do manage a win or two in the courts. - Allen D - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:08 am: to add, in the private sector if the company cannot support those benefits… they go away not become a forever expectation that breaks a company. (kind of like IL) - pool boy - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:16 am: What’s next for AFSCME? I don’t know, but it doesn’t look good. - Anon - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:16 am: Entry level state pay is extremely low. That’s a reason why there have been guaranteed raises. There are people frozen at Steps 1-3 who are making way less than their private sector counterparts and probably will be for the next 2 or 6 years. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:18 am: Demoralized - I think you are missing both the small and the big picture. The labor board didn’t rule on what the contract should be. They ruled that the parties were at impasse and couldn’t agree on what the contract should be. Even though apparently both the ALJ and Labor Board are saying they don’t think the parties are at impasse on either health insurance or wages. But that is the decision we are stuck with. Striking is always intended to break an impasse. That is what it is for. Folks can choose to act like there is nothing to be done if they want but let’s all look in the mirror first. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:20 am: –Sad as it is, the game is over right now.– You may well be right but who knows how long the court stuff will take. Regardless, the whole time the workforce will be actively collapsing. Call me a chicken little. Say I’m crying wolf. But you all don’t work where I work. Those who do can confirm that people are leaving if they can. Work is piling up. We were already critically understaffed. Sure Demoralized we may eat the contract. Do you think anyone in their right mind wants to work for the state? Maybe the unemployed or the low skilled, as we’ve seen from a number of posters. But the number of skilled positions online for the state is staggering. Nobody can afford to work for the state. You’ve been duped into thinking we get great pay and benefits. Not if you’re starting out. Sure, the state may have won…… a smoldering pile of ashes. - Thankful retiree - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:21 am: When I worked for the State my hours were 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. I did not get paid for 2 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch period thus 37 1/2 hours. Tell me how that is better than working 9 to 5. - lake county democrat - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:21 am: It’s interesting to read these comments about health insurance during the open enrollment season - private sector workers (especially those not getting insurance from their employer) are experiencing immense fee hikes or coverage cuts (to keep my bcbs premium increase to $50/mo I have to drop from a silver to a bronze plan - none of the area teaching university hospitals are covered). Nearly everyone is hurting. - Consideration - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:22 am: I think Demoralized has said it correctly in both of his last two posts: Private employees are given many perks that State Employees will never get. I’ve worked for private companies and received such perks/benefits. It does no one any favors to pit state employees vs private employees - we’ll both lose. He also nails it with the Governor never negotiating in good faith - but AFSCME also didn’t approach negotiations appropriately. It’s a loss for everyone. State employees will see a dramatic loss in take home pay and job security - but taxpayers will lose out on quality state employees because of it. Honeybear is right - - Rauner is in Stage 2 — he is breaking government. He is almost ready to move on to step 3 - - sell government to the highest bidder - his friends. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:22 am: It’s one thing if you’re step 8 already but some people are in Tier 2 and frozen at steps 1-3 for the next 2 or 6 years. Entry level state pay is really low. That’s one reason why there have been contractual raises. So maybe Rauner gets his way by getting the longest-serving employees to retire and the newest to bail because of the low pay. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:24 am: We must keep in mind that those who are driving the wedge between public sector and private sector workers, and between social services and Democrats, are super-rich. Rauner made $188 million last year and paid under 3.75% state income tax. He made some or a lot of his money off of middle class government employees. Where is the sacrifice there? Great leaders lead by example. Great leaders are the first in the front lines and in the fight. - Jeep - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:27 am: The contract “is not what it is.” State workers who are people’s neighbors, local church members, buyer’s of goods and services in their Illinois communities show billionaire Rauner that his subcontracting contract isnt going to fly by shutting the state down with a strike. - Nick Name - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:30 am: “You still have your option to strike, always have. AFSCME first tried to change the rules of the game (arbitration bills) and is now dragging their feet. Why not strike if you’re on the right side of this?” Exercising every available option before taking the drastic option to strike is not dragging feet. It’s being prudent and reasonable. - Captain Illini - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:34 am: I disagree with the premise that this is a done deal. The overall contract affects more than just active employees, but retired persons as well - thus the outcry for forced acceptance will be felt in subsequent elections…including any thought of Rauner’s re-election ambitions. I do agree that the sub-contracting aspect was fumbled by AFSCME, but as I see it we’re in the next phase that needs to play out before writing the obituary. - Responsa - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:34 am: ==We must keep in mind that those who are driving the wedge between public sector and private sector workers……..are super-rich.== This may be a dangerous misread of the situation. As several others have pointed out today, it is a fairly organic and widespread disconnect/wedge that did not need any push or PR campaign by “the super rich” to set it in motion. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:35 am: Allen D, you’re currently in a state position (if I remember when you stated it correctly) that will be the first to be outsourced. You’ll be laid off and you’ll be lucky if they let you reapply for your job for less pay and benefits. Just sayin. Not trying to attack or be mean. I could have said more. But I’m making the developments real for you. The best that you can hope for is to be rehired from a temp service for your old job. I’m not even kidding. I had to have a degree and a year training and certification for my job. I have a Masters and a lot of other skills. Dude, you just handed the saw to them and you’re standing on the wrong end of the gangplank. - Piece of Work - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:50 am: Grandson, Rauner paid roughly 6.5 million in state taxes. To criticize that makes you look small, very small. Become more successful and you too can pay a bunch of taxes. To put that figure in perspective, if you made $100k every year for 50 years, at 3.75% you would pay $187,500 in state income taxes total. It would take about 1733 people making $100K a year to pay what Rauner paid in income taxes. - Former State Employee - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:50 am: I left state employment back in February and couldn’t be happier! Allen D. - No one forced you to be a state worker. If you’re not happy, move on. Honeybear - You are the greatest, as always! I wish you nothing but the best! - Louis G. Atsaves - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:55 am: Lost in all the angry debate around here is the fact that the Rauner Administration managed to come to an agreement with 18 other labor unions representing state employees. No “impasse” declarations or rulings. No screaming dueling press releases. What’s next? Assuming the courts are not going to insert themselves into the nitty gritty of negotiations, the choice AFSCME has appears to either become number 19 or strike? - Jocko - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:58 am: If last Tuesday is any indication, Responsa is right. In addition to tearing one another down, they’re willing to pin their hopes on a celebrity who’ll bring back the 1980s. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:59 am: I’m not sure what the appeals court can do, but that’s where this appears to be heading. “This may be a dangerous misread of the situation. As several others have pointed out today, it is a fairly organic and widespread disconnect/wedge that did not need any push or PR campaign by “the super rich” to set it in motion.” Either way it is what it is. I can see other Republicans not taking Rauner’s approach if they were governor. But not Rauner. He and his super-rich allies have greatly added to the state’s damage with their nearly-single-minded pursuit to cripple unions. Rauner made $188 million last year. Griffin made $1.7 billion. They’re paying a pittance in state income tax. If Democrats continue to dig in, it should be for this very reason. Unlike GOP reps with phony tears and concern for state workers, Dems should stand up for their constituents. - Corporate Pig - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 12:08 pm: Lots of “super-rich envy” here. - State Worker Bob - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 12:11 pm: I’m still hoping cooler heads will prevail and Afscme and Gov. Rauner will trying and negotiate a deal that is fair to all. (I’m all for no COLA but still have steps for those in tier II. Maybe make the pay increases less and pay a bit more for health insurance. I’m okay with after 40 OT starts as well. ) I doubt it, but I’m hoping that the appeals process keeps us from striking. I cannot afford it, but can’t afford the contract neither. Part of me thinks that maybe Rauner’s plan if he can’t if he can’t break the union is to stall the contract out in the courts until 2018. Basically he doesn’t have to give pay raises and the status quo remains. I fear if a strike does indeed happen it could cause chaos especially if it lasts more than a week. Especially those that rely on link, unemployment, etc. That group will become especially irate I fear. - Allen D - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 12:11 pm: - Honeybear Don’t worry about me… I am on the Ship side of the Plank, and I am a realist, the state cannot continue like this and I have been saying this for a few years now… I have a degree as well, BS and Cume Laude thank you. I know my opinions are not popular, but there are many union that agree similar to my opinions, some not publically, I understand that… this is the State now trying to live within our means (without cutting off the means) you cannot get blood from a turnip… - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 12:12 pm: == Lost in all the angry debate around here is the fact that the Rauner Administration managed to come to an agreement with 18 other labor unions representing state employees. No “impasse” declarations or rulings. No screaming dueling press releases. == Louis, You may disagree with me, but I saw those contracts as “loss leaders” Rauner was willing to accept temporarily so he could kill off the golden goose of AFSCME and the health insurance they bargain for. - very old soil - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 12:25 pm: Allen D. Where did you get your BS that did not teach you how to spell “cum laude”? - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 12:31 pm: Bloody Hell Louis G Atsaves! For the umpteenth million time, was the contract given to the other unions the same as the one offered to AFSCME. No that is a totally proven fact. You can’t argue it and we’re not going to go over that ground again in your quest to obfuscate and commit perfidy! Sorry The other unions were offer true sweetheart deals in order to provide shills like you with the point you just tried to make. Teamsters even just got a BONUS payment to shut them up about the great deal they got. Again, John Coli can pick up his 30 pieces any time from the second floor office. Knees still hurting you John? But I digress. The other unions got sweetheart deals in order to perfidiously provide cover for the real move, AFSCME. What Rauner didn’t count on was Madigan not doing a grand bargain or buckling to “leverage”. Still we are left with. Collapsing government Thousands of jobs lost hundreds of private social service providers gone hundreds of small businesses gone Towns and cities in blight Declining Revenues 47 bil backlog dying state higher education starving school districts BUT HEY LETS NOT FORGET Multi National Corporate profits are through the roof! It’s working Gov Rauner! Your Leveraged Buyout Scheme is Working! #winning - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 12:51 pm: Grandson - while I get your viewpoint I think the overall concern/counterpoint to that is that going forward we as a state and country cannot be everything to everyone (at least in our current political realm/climate). In my viewpoint and in others viewpoints more taxes are not always the answer. There will come a time - and perhaps it is already here - when we need to pick and choose what gets funded and what does not. A suburban taxpayer who just got another property tax increase notice may not be keen on paying more income taxes. Cook County’s residents who are going to get hit with the “Coke tax” may not be thrilled when the income tax goes up. - Allen D - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 1:08 pm: @ - very old soil - everyone can make a typo mistake … especially from a cell phone …. LOL - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 1:10 pm: == I fear if a strike does indeed happen it could cause chaos especially if it lasts more than a week. Especially those that rely on link, unemployment, etc. That group will become especially irate I fear. == I can’t speak to current plans, but if what was planned years ago is still valid, everyone still on Link, unemployment, etc. will continue to get checks issued by the Comptroller in the event of a strike by state employees as long as there are a few key people at the Comptroller’s Office. Don’t expect that to be a pressure point that will need relief in the short term. NEW applicants for state and federal programs, however, will be out of luck because there may not be anyone who can legally process them. So if there is a strike, and AFSCME can maintain order in the ranks, expect it to be a LONG one. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 1:26 pm: RNUG- each and every day thousands of people visit a DHS office to get a SNAP aka foodstamp problem fixed. We’re dealing with a 30 year old system that, maybe could be set to auto extend benefits but that really doesn’t solve snap issuance problems. Within days there would be thousands effected. Let alone the medicaid billing problems that need to be solved with lives on the line. Nope, I’m quite sure caseworkers will be added to the list of “essential” employees very quickly. But it will take weeks of wrangling. In the meantime, it’s holiday season, at best deep winter. Man is it going to get ugly. This says nothing about the caseworker shortage NOW! Since I’ve worked there. I’ve seen a 32% decrease in certified caseworkers. That’s since the Feds said we had the smallest workforce per capita. See why I’m screaming about it? - Louis G. Atsaves - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 1:28 pm: @RNUG, interesting point. But did he have to first do it 18 times? @Honeybear, prove that the 18 received the same identical contractual provisions that somehow was not offered to AFSCME? I somehow doubt all 18 were identical, but structured based on the groups of employees and their skills being bargained with. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:13 pm: Uh-oh. This is from today’s AFSCME email. He can have his way even while the appeal is pending. Once the official decision is issued, AFSCME can—and will—appeal the Labor Board’s ruling in state court. However, as all of us know from long experience, the judicial system is very slow-moving—and Rauner will have the legal right to impose his terms while the case is pending. - Joe M - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:21 pm: == Lost in all the angry debate around here is the fact that the Rauner Administration managed to come to an agreement with 18 other labor unions representing state employees.== If I remember right, in all of those contracts, health insurance was not changed. In Rauner’s AFSCME contract, state employee’s premiums go up at least 100% if they want to keep the insurance they have. So the other contracts are not necessarily a good comparison. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:21 pm: Yep, it’s imposition. It will I’m sure happen immediately as they’ve been preparing for this precise moment. We’re going to have it shoved down our throat. Great holiday season for those of us living paycheck to paycheck. Again, if the state slows to a crawl and loses pretty much all functionality. What does it matter to Rauner or to the public. It’s only those who need help from the state that will be effected and as we know those folks are always ignored by the right and left. That is until it finally catches up to the budget and revenue numbers. That 5 year projection was based upon government functioning. What do you guess it will be a year out from now? Just sayin. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:24 pm: Man the arousal level amongst some of you is truly frightening. You really actually get pleasure out of it don’t you? - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:32 pm: =He can have his way even while the appeal is pending.= Is that true? Even if it is Rauner may hold off on healthcare changes in case the courts side with AFSCME. Imagine the mess that could cause. - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:39 pm: - Honeybear - Hope I’m not adding to your aggravation. Not my intention. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:39 pm: I’ve just been informed that AFSCME can motion the court for an injunction to prevent him from having his way with us while the case is pending. But I have no idea if the court would grant the motion. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:52 pm: - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:28 am: = What about the people (like nurses & doctors)who work for SIU School of Medicare? Are they labeled as state workers or university workers? - Almost the Weekend - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:58 pm: Can somebody explain to me how AFSCME can strike for more than two weeks if they don’t have a strike fund? Honeybear I think you have a better chance to change the hearts and minds of your fellow rank and file than commenters on here. If you haven’t realized this yet nobody’s opinion changes on this blog. Afscme reaps what they sow…er I mean vote - Whatever - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 2:59 pm: Alan D @ 11:08 am ==to add, in the private sector if the company cannot support those benefits… they go away not become a forever expectation that breaks a company. (kind of like IL)== To add, in the private sector, if the company doesn’t pay for quantity and quality of employees it needs to serve its customers, the customers go elsewhere. Can anyone name a time when politician lost an election because the government workers couldn’t do their jobs? Besides a certain blizzard in Chicago, that is. Voters blame the lazy workers, not the boss, even if the boss fired all the good workers to hire his nephews. - Thunder Fred - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 3:15 pm: Honeybear, always playing the victim. At the same time you post vitriol about going to war and venom towards anyone not in agreement with your personal point of view. This blog isn’t an AFSCME support group. This is an opportunity to listen to other points of view and broaden your perspective. Please take a step back, you are starting to reach Oswego Willy levels of worthless trolling. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 3:21 pm: =This blog isn’t an AFSCME support group.= Sometime it has that feel. Look at the comments on the Tribune article above. People over there are gleeful. - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 3:27 pm: == What about the people (like nurses & doctors)who work for SIU School of Medicare? Are they labeled as state workers or university workers? == I don’t know. My guess would be university employee. (I’m assuming autocorrect messed up Medicine.) - Captain Illini - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 3:33 pm: Thunder Fred - “Oswego Willy levels of worthless trolling” I certainly don’t have to prove my provenance to you or anyone else, but what I can say is OW is anything but worthless trolling. In fact, the vast majority of his comments are well thought out and based in reality, which is more than I can say for your under the bridge saprophytic drivel. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 3:36 pm: - Captain Illini - Thank you for you very kind words. I appreciate them very much. - Thunder Fred - Seriously, if your point can’t be made without me, then you have no point. No one is on YOUR lawn - Thunder Fred -, so add to the conversation. Try it. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 3:52 pm: ==Rauner may hold off on healthcare changes== That’s more of an operational issue than anything else. They’ll have to get all of the plans to choose from out there for employees to review and then open up the enrollment period again. I wouldn’t expect any healthcare changes for at least a couple of months. That being said, the issue becomes whether he follows through on his threat to bill employees for the higher cost all the way back to July 1. - RNUG - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 4:45 pm: == They’ll have to get all of the plans to choose from out there for employees to review and then open up the enrollment period again. == Back in July, they said there would not be an open enrollment period once the contract was agreed to … you were going to have whatever you chose until next July. So I wouldn’t count on s delay for that reason. - DuPage - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 4:45 pm: Contracting out work now done by state employees won’t help much on the pensions. The pensions will have less money being paid in, so the state will have to pay more. When a state employee gets paid, part of the paycheck goes to the pension funds. When work is contracted out, the money goes out the door with nothing going to the pension funds. Even if Rauner contracted out the entire state workforce, the existing pension debt would still have to be paid. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 7:29 pm: =with nothing going to the pension funds= Um… even assuming a generous return of 7.5% employees would have to be contributing over 20% of their gross pay for tier one benefits (with an 8.5% match from the state). Pensions are largely a gift from tax payers and are not at all self-funded. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 9:53 pm: Before anyone jumps me… replace “gift” with “negotiated compensation” in my last. - striketoo - Wednesday, Nov 16, 16 @ 11:46 pm: “It may make smaller government advocates happy until they have to wait 6 months to get a FOID card.” Why not just do away with the FOID card? Most states don’t have one and you would still have to pass a national background check to buy a gun. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.