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Reframing the lawmaker paycheck battle
Wednesday, Dec 14, 2016 - Posted by Rich Miller * Three House Democrats who are suing over their withheld paychecks appeared on “Chicago Tonight” last night. Rep. Silvana Tabares (D-Chicago) made by far the best argument…
That’s a good reframing of this issue. The interviewer just wanted to talk about the budget, but this ain’t about the budget, it’s about agreeing to the governor’s preconditions to a budget. And those preconditions are simply unacceptable to many, many Democrats, including Tabares. I don’t care who the House Speaker is, that’s just the way it is. * Tabares made this point more clearly and succinctly when she was asked at the end of the interview if she thought there’d be a budget his fiscal year. Her response…
* Meanwhile, Rep. Chris Welch (D-Hillside) was asked on the program about all the harsh newspaper editorials on the topic, including one that called for a legislative uprising. His response…
That’s not as good as Tabares’ argument, but the class conflict stuff does work. They should probably find a way to combine the two arguments. * By the way, Illinois legislators make just shy of $70,000 a year. As Welch noted, Gov. Rauner made $188 million last year, or about $15 million a month. An average work year, without vacations, is 2,080 hours (40 hours a week times 52 weeks). So, Gov. Rauner made $90,385 an hour last year. That means he made more in a single work-week hour than state legislators make in an entire year. There are 177 legislators in the General Assembly. 177 times $70K equals a total annual payroll of about $12.4 million, without other stuff. The governor therefore made $2.6 million more in a month than the entire General Assembly makes in a year.
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- Deft Wing - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:34 pm:
If “corporate demands” are property tax relief, term limits, and worker’s comp reform, Tabares may be more than a bit confused.
The issue isn’t “Rauner” withholding legislative pay, but whether Mendoza (she cuts the checks) will continue to treat legislators like all Illinois creditors, paid when there’s money or to prioritize legislators over all other creditors and only pay lawmakers timely (each month) while service providers continue to wait.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:35 pm:
So who are they suing now Mendoza or Munger? LOL
$70k a year for a part time job with benefits is ridiculous.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:38 pm:
- Deft Wing -
Are you saying Munger should mock her oath and withhold pay against the constitution…
… like Leslie Munger did?
Munger actually broke her oath and defied the constitution.
How about that?
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:39 pm:
==Are you saying Munger should mock her oath and withhold pay against the constitution…
… like Leslie Munger did?
Munger actually broke her oath and defied the constitution.
How about that?==
Now replace the name “Munger” and replace it with “Mendoza” now.
- Bobby Catalpa - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:39 pm:
Good points.
So, ok — who exactly are the democrats that support Rauner?
I don’t understand this
Rauner says many dems support him. He consistently refuses to name even one.
The one that *did* support Rauner, got kicked out along with his sleeping bag.
Comments like the (very good) one from Tabares make me think that (a) very few *if any* dems support Rauner and (b) it doesn’t matter who the Speaker is.
The impasse will continue. Rauner must surely realize this, no? Feature, in other words — not a bug.
- PublicServant - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:40 pm:
Making 188 million while you’re sleeping is even more ridiculous. Just sayin…
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:40 pm:
Mendoza. Apologies.
Mendoza ran on a popular, yet wholly unconstitutional ideal… than Munger was already doing.
Munger’s legacy is now she mocked her oath and held in no regard the Illinois constitutions
Will Mendoza do the same?
- enoughalready - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:41 pm:
Who really cares about the salary/income comparisons? Totally irrelevant.
Bottom line, as a stand alone issue, the legislators are not doing their jobs. They hide behind the “Mongo only pawn in game of life” argument for the stalemate. They are delivering nothing of value to the citizens of Illinois.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:44 pm:
Seriously, nearly two years in now and some reporters still think they’re fighting about the budget? How is that possible?
Wouldn’t they have seen some stark differences on spending and revenue questions by now if the fight was over the budget? They don’t even talk about revenue and spending, ever.
- Anon - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:49 pm:
3 comments here:
1. legislator is a part-time position and shouldn’t be compared to, or equated with, a full-time position, both in terms of pay and benefits. They should start finding another source of income, given the precarious position of the state.
2. I’m sure that some organizations and entities have already done this, but all of the others should start thinking about alternative sources of funding. It looks like there will be no budget until 2018, so they need to consider their options and do what they can to find other sources such as donations, grants, local governments, etc.
3. I don’t know how anyone can believe a legislator when they say that they won’t agree to the Governor’s ideas for philosophical reasons. I just don’t buy it. They’re all good at toeing the party line while making it look like their helpless to do anything about it. If it’s one thing that I’ve learned through this crisis is that Illinois no longer has statemen (or stateswomen). We have ordinary politicians. I don’t believe that most of them are all that concerned with the plight of the state or its people. They’re concerned about themselves, their re-election, and their party - in that order.
I have no idea why the bipartisan, bicameral group doesn’t get back together, work out a deal amongst themselves, build the consensus needed to get it passed, and then tell the leaders they want it put to a vote. IMO, legislators can get this done if they really wanted to, but as I said, I don’t believe they really want to.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:49 pm:
Please complete your sentences and stories, posters. Mendoza has said she will follow Munger’s “lead” UNTIL the court(s) order her not to. THIS is why that lawsuit was so important. The constitutionality of Munger’s actions need to be settled. Once that is done, Rauner loses another leverage chip.
- lake county democrat - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:51 pm:
Article V of the state Constitution:
–The Comptroller, in accordance with law, shall maintain the State’s central fiscal accounts, and order payments into and out of the funds held by the Treasurer.–
Can someone point out the law where payments for salary debt legally owed to legislators takes supremacy over all other legal debts? Or is it that the Comptroller mocks their oath when they fail to order all legally owed debts paid? Does the fact that a debt is explicitly stated in the Constitution mean that it gets primacy over another debt created by law? Where does it say so? And if either of those are the case, does the Treasurer mock their similar oath to make those payments when there aren’t funds for them?
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:51 pm:
===Will Mendoza do the same?===
Yep she said she would
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:54 pm:
- lake county democrat -
I read your comment.
The constitution and accompanying statutes are there. It’s a separation of powers that a Comptroller, Governor, or Treasurer don’t have over the Legislature.
Good Luck.
- Unsolicited Advice - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:55 pm:
“They are delivering nothing of value to the citizens of Illinois”-Maybe not but the legislators don’t represent the citizens of IL. They represent citizens of their districts. Only the governor represents the citizens of IL collectively, but he keeps acting like this somehow isn’t the political reality.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:55 pm:
Hi Rich. The math you described is fact. However, John Q Public didn’t pay the Gov that $188 million. We paid him zero. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. But the idea that it’s apples to apples would be like blaming a guy for collecting a giant inheritance.
- Annonin' - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:56 pm:
“If “corporate demands” are property tax relief, term limits, and worker’s comp reform, Tabares may be more than a bit confused.”
Mr/Ms Deft lets review when property taxes are frozen parents lose because they shell out more schools while biz does zip.
Work comp cuts more for biz owners.
Kicks in 2028 so it is just silly to discuss
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 12:59 pm:
ICYMI see last 8 words of Mendoza’s statement-
“I was very clear on the issue of withholding legislators’ pay during my campaign: Everyone needs to share in the sacrifice,” Mendoza said in a statement. “My policy will be to prioritize the most vulnerable people in our State and continue the delay in legislators’ pay, unless a court instructs me to do otherwise.”
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/group-of-illinois-legislators-sue-state-over-not-getting-paid/
- walker - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:01 pm:
Word: “”Seriously … some reporters still think they’re fighting about the budget ?”"
True that. Even some commenters still somehow assume it’s about settling differences in the budget. Their actual revenue and expense numbers have never been that far apart, and are ultimately restrained by simple arithmetic. The impasse is about differences with the TA.
- MikeMacD - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:04 pm:
lake county democrat,
The law you are seeking is (25 ILCS 115/) General Assembly Compensation Act.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:04 pm:
=== The impasse is about differences with the TA.===
- walker -
With respect. To add(?)
… and attaching TA wins to that budget and the blame for the upcoming tax increase to pay for that budget(?)
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:05 pm:
=If “corporate demands” are property tax relief, term limits, and worker’s comp reform, Tabares may be more than a bit confused.=
Did you find that copy of the governor’s “balanced” budget yet? I kid, but not really.
You do know that most insurance companies, like those that write worker’s comp, are corporations right? Costs have gone down but they have not passed on the savings. Hmmm…wonder where the money went?
Property tax freeze- total false flag and an absolute contradiction to Rauner’s words about local control. A “freeze” on local revenue will hurt middle and lower income earners not help. It does not save the state a nickel.
Term limits- we already have them, it is called voting. How much revenue or savings has been calculated on this one?
Listen, when you and DeGroot get together for a bro down, see if you can rustle up a budget.
- LizPhairTax - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:05 pm:
$70k a year for a part time job with benefits is ridiculous.
Thought exercise: What’s a number that makes sense to you? It’s got to be between 0 and 70k.
I don’t think limiting elected office to people who are willing to do it for free is good public policy but I’ll listen to your point of view that 70k is too much. Indulge me.
- NobodysAccountable - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:06 pm:
The amount of money a person makes is not relevant if the rule of law is followed. If the rule of law is followed, the GA is getting paid. This would prevent the executive branch from applying iniquitous pressure/leverage against the legislative branch. Why does it appear to be so hard for our elected officials to understand those 3 words, ‘rule of law’?
- Archiesmom - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:06 pm:
I’m betting you Mendoza is taking a leaf out of the JBT playbook. I bet she has all that back pay waiting to toss into the mail the day the court rules, just as JBT did when Quinn pulled his unconstitutional stunt.
- Very fed up - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:07 pm:
I was confused as well about what term limits and restraining highest in nation property taxes are corporate demands.
- Liberty - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:09 pm:
Our system of government is working! We are not a banana republic but a democratic one.
- Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:11 pm:
Being a legislator is a full-time job. There’s a lot more to it than just showing up in Springfield and pressing buttons because the leaders say so. That’s obviously what Rauner thinks the job is, but it is not. Most of the legislators are only doing just that–being legislators. The media creation is that they all have side jobs as lawyers or developers or something, but that has no basis in reality.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:13 pm:
===term limits and restraining highest in nation property taxes==
Those are his demands for a stopgap budget, not for a real budget.
Either try to keep up or stop deliberately attempting to confuse the issue.
- Thoughts Matter - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:14 pm:
This is part of the broader argument they need to make regarding the Governor overstepping his job boundaries while not performing his job duties. He’s trying to force the legislators to vote his concerns rather than their districts. While not performing his constitutional duty to propose a budget. He wants them to propose it for him.
And for the 1000th time- the legislators show up in Springfield on a part time schedule, but they perform a lot of duties outside of Springfield. Stop acting as if their only job assignment is to propose and pass a budget.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:15 pm:
===Thought exercise: What’s a number that makes sense to you? It’s got to be between 0 and 70k.
I don’t think limiting elected office to people who are willing to do it for free is good public policy but I’ll listen to your point of view that 70k is too much. Indulge me===
15+20k a year. No more than what my county board members get paid they actually accomplish things. These legislators outside of some justice reform, haven’t done squat for the citizens of Illinois or their respective districts
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:17 pm:
===Maybe not but the legislators don’t represent the citizens of IL.===
Actually, as a body, they do.
And actually, as a legislator, they do too. They take an oath to the state constitution, not the “district” constitution.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:18 pm:
==And for the 1000th time- the legislators show up in Springfield on a part time schedule, but they perform a lot of duties outside of Springfield. Stop acting as if their only job assignment is to propose and pass a budget.==
As is every other state legislator in other states by they’re still part time. Lol what makes Illinois legislatures unique in that they’re full time
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:19 pm:
The governor makes about as much during his half hour Facebook chats as the typical Illinois household makes all year. The governor has not idea what it’s like to live paycheck to paycheck, but he’s happy to see legislators do it.
- Lech W - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:27 pm:
Rep Welsh’s “class conflict” Ah yes the old income inequality play, of labeling and grouping people into economic classes so they can be manipulated by the political class. Stale
quasi-Marxist argument.
- Nick Name - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:28 pm:
“The issue isn’t “Rauner” withholding legislative pay, but whether Mendoza (she cuts the checks) will continue to treat legislators like all Illinois creditors, paid when there’s money or to prioritize legislators over all other creditors and only pay lawmakers timely (each month) while service providers continue to wait.”
Raunerites care about paying social service providers only when it means illegally trying to bend the legislative branch to the will of the governor.
- Oh please... - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:36 pm:
The argument that legislators shouldn’t be paid “until they do their jobs” is absurd. No single legislator can pass a budget on their own, or do anything else legislatively on their own for that matter. Democracy is a collective effort…and requires all branches of government to participate. The practical effect of the executive withholding the pay of the legislative branch because members won’t acquiesce to the Governor’s political demands is that people will no longer be able to serve in office if they cannot afford to go without pay for extended periods of time. Members are now owed almost $35,000…how many of us could manage our finances, pay bills and survive $35,000 down with no end in sight?
- Thoughts Matter - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:41 pm:
Answering the thought exercise with a question-
How much isenough to keep them from being beholden to disreputable people? Do you really want them having so little income that they look to supplement it unethically? We have enough trouble in that department.
Second question- why should a legislator in a state the size and population of Illnois get paid the same as in a state of a few hundred thousand people and a lot less geographical area?
- EVanstonian - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:42 pm:
Why isn’t one of Gov Rauner’s reforms that legislators go from being part-time to full-time, thereby preventing the “corruption” of running, say, a property tax law office? Would it take away a plank of his or something?
- Juvenal - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:45 pm:
If the argument is that the Comptroller should only issue paychecks to people that are doing their jobs, let’s stop the paychecks for management in the governor’s office, office of management and budget, department of commerce and economic opportunity, and department of human services.
- Governors office and OMB have yet to produce a balanced budget;
- Illinois is bleeding manufacturing jobs;
- The Tribune is doing a better job of uncovering nursing home abuse of the developmentally disabled than Rauner’s DHS.
Rauner should ask his staff to voluntarily refuse pay until they get their act together.
- illinifan - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:45 pm:
Add to this that the income is most likely not earned income but rather money on his investments. Therefore his tax rate would not exceed 15% and this money is not subject to FICA so no contribution to Social Security. He therefore gets to keep more money in his pocket than a person who works for their income.
- Tommydanger - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:45 pm:
Deft wing;
Think Animal Farm when it comes to legislator salaries and other creditors; all creditors are equal, but some are more equal than others. Thank God there is still a Constitution.
- Not It - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:46 pm:
Sorry if I’m double posting - what is completly forgotten on this issue is that the paychecks are just in line with all other delayed payments; it has absolutely nothing to do with a signed budget or not.
Munger started doing this because legislators would complain to her about payments being late to their constituents, and she realized legislators had no idea just how much money we spend more than we take in. This delay forces them to every day remember our spending is completely out of control.
- Juvenal - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:47 pm:
As for whether lawmakers are doing their jobs: in all but a handful of cases, their constituents disagree with the pundits and the editorial boards.
- Jack Kemp - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:47 pm:
Voters already know that Rauner is rich. They obviously didn’t care the last time. Are we expected to believe they’ll suddenly care this time? Good luck.
- GetOverIt - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:48 pm:
==Bottom line, as a stand alone issue, the legislators are not doing their jobs.==
And the Governor is? I think the legislators are doing their jobs, especially those refusing to succumb to the TA agenda. I am not part of a union, but I don’t want to see unions bludgeoned. I don’t like the pension debt we have, but I don’t want to see pension recipients get zeroed out. The point being, legislators represent the will of their constituents and sometimes the result of that representation hurts…to say the least. If we don’t like the job they are doing, we can vote them out - that’s the check and balance right there. Pay them for goodness sake…so, you better watch out…(I’m not Vman)
- Keyser Soze - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:52 pm:
Corporate interests are not profiting from unfunded pensions. And, it’s the many small businesses, including mom and pop operations, that are being hurt by payment backlogs. Those peddling class warfare need to keep this in mind and maybe search for a little more depth.
- Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:53 pm:
The idea that being in the legislature is a part time job is ludicrous. Yeah, they’re not always in session, but they are pretty much always working.
- Anyone Remember - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:59 pm:
lake county democrat
Federal and Illinois law require employees be paid at regular intervals. And Federal law permits treble damages for no / late / under pay.
- LizPhairTax - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 1:59 pm:
@TM it’s got to be enough that the job holds some appeal to a reasonably successful person. It can’t just be for those who don’t need to get paid and it can’t just be for people who couldn’t land a better paycheck somewhere else.
Either way, they should get paid whatever the deal is that they’re supposed to be paid.
- Cubs in '16 - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 2:03 pm:
EVanstonian @ 1:42 brings up an interesting point. Rank and file state employees have to complete a ‘Secondary Employment’ form annually and disclose all employment outside of their state positions so they can be evaluated for potential conflicts of interest. Are GA members and other elected officials required to do the same?
- d.p.gumby - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 2:20 pm:
Fascinating that some feel $70K “too much” for legislator. But that 15-20K like county bd is adequate. I wonder what conception of a legislator’s work Deft has; what metrics are being used. It appears to be the number of bills passed, which is sort of like measuring productivity by number of widgets manufactured. This demonstrates a seriously failure in civics education that was also demonstrated by the last election and by the current transition. Idiocracy jumps from the screen to the real world.
- GOP Extremist - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 2:22 pm:
The way things are headed legislative pay won’t be an issue in the future. Already, spending multi-millions $ in small districts for these part time jobs, along with pledges of not accepting health care or retirement. No pay pledges will follow except in districts where no wealthy reside??
- MAMA - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 2:33 pm:
Rep. Silvana Tabares (D-Chicago) - - loved your interview. Keep telling it like it is. Stay strong.
- El Conquistador - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 2:48 pm:
Let’s keep electing self funded billionaires because they have our backs. Sadly, all will relearn a lesson on who is representin’ who.
- Unsolicited Advice - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 2:59 pm:
“as a legislator, they do too. They take an oath to the state constitution, not the “district” constitution.”
OW, Sure but my point is that individual legislators represent their individual districts. At the end of the day, they only answer to their constituents at the voting booth. The Governor (and press to some extent) keeps talking about the legislature like it’s a monolithic thing that should act in the interest of IL. That’s the governor’s job!
- Fed Up2 - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 3:05 pm:
State employees are still waiting for their “back Pay” that the courts ordered we receive! It has been over two years and still -0-! Maybe the legislator’s should get in line as we can’t get this money either until they do their job!!! Just sayin!
- Lt Guv - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 3:11 pm:
Anon (to ashamed to fess up) pull your head out of somewhere. There are several state legislatures that are full-time employment. To be honest, that reflects what the job actually is (especially once outside of the Chicago Metro area where the profile and requests to the offices are higher than in the City).
Several state basically pay their legislators next to nothing. We’re somewhere in between while still expecting full-time work. To be honest, that’s a deal.
We may not like the results, but compared to most states on a dollars and cents basis, IL does well.
- Trapped in the 'burbs - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 3:16 pm:
There you go again, using facts. If you drop your g’s, wear a rubber watch and a Carhartt, you are a man of the people. Just another guy. Joe Sixpack bringing your lunch to work unless it’s a union job.
- Baruch - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 3:23 pm:
“It is easier for a camel to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.”
- Tommydanger - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 4:01 pm:
Cubs in ‘16: Yes, they do so already. All elected officials have to file an economic interest statement annually. Its a public record.
- BK Bro - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 4:24 pm:
Why SHOUDLN’T Mendoza defy the constitution and not pay legislators? No one else seems to care about it, including the legislators who haven’t passed a budget.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 4:26 pm:
===…including the legislators who haven’t passed a budget.===
The legislators are suing now.
They actually sued Munger.
That’s what this whole Post is about. That and the constitutionality.
You know that… right?
- Just Me - Wednesday, Dec 14, 16 @ 8:24 pm:
I noticed the Democratic legislators on WTTW kept saying Rauner! Rauner! Rauner! They conveniently left out that the Comptroller is one of their fellow Democrats.
In just a few weeks legislator pay will finally start to bubble up the front of the line, and the checks will start being cut, so this issue has nothing to do with passing a budget and Rauner’s demands with that budget.
- the Cardinal - Thursday, Dec 15, 16 @ 8:51 am:
If your a Dem or GOP and Like it or Not its Un-Constitutional. Law suit should have been filed a long time ago. Its extortion to not pay the GA members unless they capitualte to your demands to move on a bill budget or any other thing. They are elected to the offie and a salary has been set. End of story.