95 Comments - Ducky LaMoore - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:23 am: ===The refusal to accept these basic facts never ceases to amaze me.=== It will never amaze me. News isn’t actual news anymore. It is just a mouthpiece for who controls the narrative. Thanks Rich for being the exception. - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:24 am: Editorial boards are immune to facts - frisbee - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:24 am: The News Gazette Editorial Board is just trying to get noticed by the Tronc folks. It amazes me how out of touch the NG folks are given how liberal most of their readership is. - Big Joe - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:26 am: Repeat those facts over and over again, folks. Forget the duct tape commercials. Those are the hard facts we should be hearing. - Cubs in '16 - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:26 am: But term limits and a property tax freeze will make the debt magically disappear? Is that right N-G? - illini - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:27 am: I might suggest that many vendors would be ecstatic if their vouchers were paid within only 6 months. Does anyone remember Keana Williams who had her sons medical equipment almost removed because the State was over 20 months behind in paying that vendor? - Not It - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:28 am: Trump has proven to us that facts are not necessary in order to win. - Archiesmom - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:28 am: For whatever reason, they have chosen to drink the Rauner Kool-Aid rather than do some research. It’s really sad when much of news media has stopped following the old journalistic practices. Maybe it’s an opinion piece, but still… And readers find it impossible to distinguish between an editorial and a hard news piece. So opinion gets up there is fact. - Henry Francis - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:30 am: Quinn raised taxes 67% and it did nothing to help. Raising taxes is evil. Only Madigan and the politicians he controls likes to raise taxes. Bruce Rauner may have not been able to do anything as Governor, but he did fight every day to make sure Mike Madigan couldn’t raise taxes again. Those are the only basic facts one needs to concern themselves with. /s - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:33 am: It ceases to amaze me that we had a tax hike and the money did not go to paying down the debt as promised. I think that is why Rauner is holding to his changes. Democrats are not interested in the average taxpayer only unions. And you wonder why Trump was elected? - Deft Wing - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:35 am: –” In other words, we had a “normal” backlog - the sort you’d have in your own checking account as you were waiting to pay your bills before their deadlines.”– Then why the need for the tax hike if all was “normal”? But apart from that, there is an important part of the history you didn’t mention. Cullerton & Madigan advising all that the income tax increase was temporary only and prior to its expiration the GA and Gov would undertake necessary steps to reduce spending and get its house in order so that things would truly get back to “normal.” But that didn’t happen. Increased spending continued and the folks in charge — the Dems under one-party rule — didn’t have the fortitude to reduce spending or own the the temp. tax hike they caused by making it permanent. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:36 am: ===and the money did not go to paying down the debt as promised=== You can write, but you apparently cannot read. That’s a weird sort of illiteracy, likely caused by willful ignorance due to blinding hyperpartisanship. - independent - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:37 am: We have elected people who would rather govern by philosophy, partisanship and short term thinking than real solid workmanship. I loved it when right after the last Controller came to our town in the Spring of 2015 and Parroted the New Govenor and said about the tax increase that just expired “it didn’t help anything so it had to go”. Many Human Service people in the room were speechless, as we knew it helped get the backlog of unpaid bills down to manageable levels. The new administration never let a good sound bite be interrupted by facts. - illinoised - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:38 am: Where I live, our newspaper just re-prints what the politicians say. They provide no context and they do not research the topic. When I engage folks to find out the reason for their voting practices, they sound like a Rauner commercial. Which is why our town which hosts a public university is dying on the vine. - Arock - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:43 am: Who was in control when the tax expired? - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:44 am: Actual, historic hard numbers are quickly and easily available online at the comptroller and GOMB sites. Not a heavy lift at all. The only explanations for such shoddy, inaccurate journalism are laziness, willful ignorance or premeditated deception. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:46 am: Boy..Let me guess, Rich Miller is a democrat and is always right! As democrats always do, shoot the messenger. That’s why they keep losing elections. I should have known, this is a site for democrat thoughts only. No Republicans allowed - Ubecha - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:48 am: Rich, you are one of the few who consistently point out what the consequences were after the expiration of the temporary tax increase, and as you again point out, there are many that are unclear on the concept. Plus, as you’ve pointed out before, the Governor wanted that temporary tax increase to roll-back for political reasons. Most of us remember him saying….”Crisis creates leverage to change…and we’ve got to use that leverage of the crisis to force structural change” Gov. Rauner wanted this mess, he owns it, plain and simple. - South of Sherman - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:52 am: Hey, AM, I know Good Friday is tomorrow, but you can feel free to come down from that cross any time… - wordlsinger - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:55 am: AM, could you fill in a little bit the information and logic that led you to that conclusion? Are there issues with the accuracy of the facts Miller cited? Please, don’t hide your light under a bushel. - blue dog dem - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:59 am: ..willful ignorance due to blinding hyperpartisanship. That is good stuff. - SOIL M - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:03 am: AM—as a republican I take offense to that. Is Rich a Democrat? Sure he is and makes no apologies for it. Are many if not most of the people who post here also Democrats? Why yes they are. But guess what. This blog is also read by many Republicans also. Many of them do comment regularly, some occasionally, some just read dont comment. And believe it or not many independents are here also. What this blog does is present the most trusted news that people may comment on even if they dont agree. Do not attack the site or the owner for your disagreement with him. He owns it and has the right to express himself as he pleases. If you dont like that you have the right to start a site yourself. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:08 am: Let’s get real here. 30 plus years years of Madigan running the state by controlling everything that comes to the legislature. Where is Madigan’s compromise? Term limit’s are a must in this state. We need new representation, democrat or republican. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:09 am: By now we know what doesn’t work with these guys. What COULD work that hasn’t been tried - Rich Miller - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:09 am: ===Then why the need for the tax hike if all was “normal”? === Um, huh? The tax hike was what reduced the backlog in the first place. It went back up when the hike partially expired. You cannot possibly be that math-challenged. - Roman - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:10 am: AM - ask Pat Quinn if he thinks Miller is a Democrat. - titan - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:10 am: — - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 10:33 am: It ceases to amaze me that we had a tax hike and the money did not go to paying down the debt as promised. — As I understand it, under the higher income tax rate the backlog of bills went down (i.e. the extra money did indeed pay down the debt) and there were no shorting of the pension contributions (i.e. the bill backlog was not “paid” by “borrowing” from the pension funds). Granted, not ALL of the state’s debt was paid off, but we were paying it off instead of adding to it. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:11 am: I apologize. I have never posted on any sites. Just venting. Again, I do agree that this is the best site for trusted updated news. - X-prof - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:15 am: The News-Gazette’s editorial policies and reporting have long been slanted like this, at least as far back as when I moved here in 1980. Those were the days when the “Contessa” owned the paper and governed its editorial policy. She was a colorful personality: https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=118764162 . The current leadership is less interesting, but the slant is pretty much the same. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:15 am: ===ask Pat Quinn if he thinks Miller is a Democrat. === Or ask Speaker Madigan. lol - don the legend - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:16 am: Have Lucky and AM ever been seen together? - City Zen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:16 am: ==It ceases to amaze me that we had a tax hike and the money did not go to paying down the debt as promised.== The big fail on Quinn’s part was not resizing the budget to match the new 3.75% rate going forward. Paying down debt is a temporary fix when consumption is not reduced. - Markus - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:18 am: AM- Rich probably should have used this link in the article. Pictures are easier to understand for some. I don’t know how anyone could look at that graph clearly showing the bill backlog dropping to a normal 30 day cycle (while making pension payments)and then make the statement you did. http://ledger.illinoiscomptroller.gov/fiscal-condition/ - Norseman - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:19 am: Editorial boards are unrestrained by facts. What we get is the type of silly rhetoric you get in the local bar. The only difference is that the editorial board writers have to hide the alcohol in their desk drawers. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:28 am: Ok..what about the 130 billon pension debt? I worked for a fortune 100 company and over 15 years ago they got rid of defined pensions. This state just like the country needs to be run like a business. This is our hard earned money. - City Zen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:30 am: ==under the higher income tax rate…there were no shorting of the pension contributions== True, but the unfunded pension liability increased $30 billion despite those increased pension contributions by the state. Shows you had deep the crater is. - The Dude Abides - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:30 am: AM is the most clueless individual who has visited in a while. The tax increase under Quinn resulted in reducing the unpaid bill backlog by about 6 billion dollars. Quinn also made the full pension payments for 4 straight years. The Governor said yesterday that they’ve done an exceptional job of handling things that they can control. I laughed when I read that. Requesting that the income tax be allowed to expire and saying that he could run the state with a 3.75% rate was a huge mistake. As former Governor Jim Thompson said a year ago, if you are a new GOP Governor and you have Democrats in the majority in both Legislative chambers, you need help from those folks if you want to get bills passed into law. He said that it didn’t make sense to declare war on those folks from day one and expect to produce positive results. I asked a friend of mine who is pretty well tuned in to what’s going on in state government about this just the other day. His response was that he thinks that the Governor just greatly overestimated his own abilities. Those decisions to let the income tax rate lapse and to declare war on the majority party and the crisis that ensued as a result of those bad decisions are on him. Our state is in much worse shape today that it was when Quinn left office because of decisions made by Bruce Rauner. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:36 am: ===but the unfunded pension liability increased $30 billion despite those increased pension contributions=== And what everyone who ever makes comments like this never says is that the liability would’ve been far worse had those payments not been made using the increased income tax revenues. It’s a complete red herring. - NobodysAccountable - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:38 am: “Quinn tried to solve the problem by persuading the Legislature to pass a 67 percent income tax hike (from 3 percent to 5 percent) in January 2011. The billions of dollars generated eased the state’s cash crunch and was used to make skyrocketing pension contributions. But the state still owed billions in unpaid bills, an obligation that tax increase was meant to eliminate.” Which is how we ended up with Governor Rauner. The only way the income tax increase was allowed for a vote, was if there were increases in spending in other areas. It wasn’t enough to pay off the outstanding bills, there had to be new spending. And that is the problem that has plagued Illinois for decades. - Arock - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:38 am: The income tax lapsed during Governor Quinn’s term. - Earnest - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:39 am: >The only explanations for such shoddy, inaccurate journalism are laziness, willful ignorance or premeditated deception. I feel kind of nutty, but I actually have started leaning towards premeditated deception. I don’t get it. If you want to sell papers with stories that get noticed, you have the debt we’re piling up day by day, businesses who have laid off and/or closed, and human interest stories. I have always wondered why no one took on the “Nightline” concept from the Iranian hostage crisis. And I don’t mean this as them supporting any politician or agenda, just as an effective way to increase circulation. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:46 am: So, if tax increases don’t do anything to help pay down the deficit, why don’t we eliminate property and state taxes? That should get the job done! - titan - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:46 am: — - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:28 am: Ok..what about the 130 billon pension debt? — OK, what about it? Most of that is from “underfunding” (i.e. The state “borrowed” it to pay for other things). It will need to be paid like other debts. But the problem is not that there is a pension system, the problem is that the state “borrowed” from it. - jim - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:54 am: At the end of calendar year 2014, just before that tax hike expired, the comptroller’s office had $4.36 billion in vouchers on hand. The office estimated there was another $2 billion which hadn’t yet been processed by the Quinn administration, but the comptroller was paying the state’s bills in under 30 days back then. In other words, we had a “normal” backlog - I guess our situation with unpaid bills isn’t as bad as I thought. If Rich’s analysis is correct, Illinois is halfway to normal. Sure fooled me. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 11:58 am: ===But that didn’t happen. Increased spending continued and the folks in charge — the Dems under one-party rule — didn’t have the fortitude to reduce spending or own the the temp. tax hike they caused by making it permanent=== Great revisionist history. Once Rauner ran in lowering and allowing the tax to expire, and… as Governor-Elect, thanked the GA for letting it expire, your drivel is too partisan to ring true to the problem. The reality is the tax was to expire. Rauner could’ve kept his mouth shut and your revisionist history could be considered fairly accurate. Now? Now it’s Rauner asked for the sunset to follow through, the GA obliged. That why “this”… ===Cullerton & Madigan advising all that the income tax increase was temporary only and prior to its expiration the GA and Gov would undertake necessary steps to reduce spending and get its house in order so that things would truly get back to “normal.”=== … while sounding “swell”, isn’t really relevant after Rauner got the sunsetting he campaigned on, asked for, and thanked the GA for. Good try, thou. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:00 pm: - Arock - Only the “Owl” can ask this with a straight face… ===Who was in control when the tax expired?=== Who was Governor-Elect and begged for it to expire and thanked the GA when they obliged? Who? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:03 pm: ===The income tax lapsed during Governor Quinn’s term.=== Oh - Arock -, Rauner begging for it to expire makes your drive-bys seem… frivolous. - AM - “Pat Quin failed” Get use to this.., “Bruce Rauner fails… “ - City Zen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:05 pm: ==Most of that is from “underfunding” (i.e. The state “borrowed” it to pay for other things)== Such as salary raises, health benefits, promotions, increased COLA’s, job openings, etc. - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:11 pm: == True, but the unfunded pension liability increased $30 billion despite those increased pension contributions by the state. Shows you had deep the crater is. == == Rich: And what everyone who ever makes comments like this never says is that the liability would’ve been far worse had those payments not been made using the increased income tax revenues. == What Rich also failed to mention is we are still on the “ramp” part of the pension ramp, and paying less than the actuarially required amount to keep the pension debt from growing. To actually stop it from growing will require another $1.5B (more or less) each year. - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:15 pm: Should have added … that $1.5B more is predicated on the adoption of a level payment plan for the rest of the ramp repayment period. - Wirepoints - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:18 pm: Utter bunk. Worthy of a separate article to refute this. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:50 pm: Talking about clueless. Where is the proposal from Madigan to cut outlays to match the current taxes collected? He has all the keys. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:55 pm: - AM - Article VIII, Section 2, (a) Please, do keep up. Thank you. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:56 pm: The state pays more in pensions then any business I have ever heard of. We owe it to the current retirees to make good on what they were promised but change needs to come to illinois (401K’s etc.) Will never happen with the same blood (Madigan) in power. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:59 pm: ===but change needs to come to illinois (401K’s etc.) Will never happen with the same blood (Madigan) in power.=== Nope, again, please keep up. It’s not Madigan, it’s the pesky constitution. The reason that guarantee is in the constitution is to protect pensions from those *cough* Rauner *cough* who would take what is earned away, so… - LTSW - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:02 pm: Maybe Leader Radogno was willing to negotiate the grand bargain because she now realizes the Senate’s shortsighted refusal to go along with the borrowing in the tax hike bill is a large reason we are where we are today. Had we borrowed and paid down the backlog we could maybe be surviving on the 3.75%. Now we really need more than the 5% being talked about just to catch up. If they do reach a grand bargain compromise it needs a similar borrowing and debt service provision as the original but of course at much higher levels due to the last two years of budget carnage. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:05 pm: Did you read my message? “We owe it to the current retirees to make good on what they were promised” Your right, that is why this is in the constitution. I am taling about going forward… - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:08 pm: ===Your right, that is why this is in the constitution. I am taling about going forward…=== Oh I read it, you must think changing the constitution must be easy. That’s fun. Good on you, lol - titan - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:08 pm: — - City Zen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:05 pm: ==Most of that is from “underfunding” (i.e. The state “borrowed” it to pay for other things)== Such as salary raises, health benefits, promotions, increased COLA’s, job openings, etc. — And everything else the state pays for - the employee pay is under 10% of the budget. —- AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 12:56 pm: The state pays more in pensions then any business I have ever heard of. We owe it to the current retirees to make good on what they were promised but change needs to come to illinois (401K’s etc.) Will never happen with the same blood (Madigan) in power. — The change was put into place in 2011, Tier II pays in more than it takes out long term (if the state doesn’t decide to “borrow” it). - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:13 pm: Maybe I will lean something here. So you are telling me that it is “fact” that future pensions in Illinois cannot be changed unless the Illinois constitution is changed? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:15 pm: ===Maybe I will lean something here. So you are telling me that it is “fact” that future pensions in Illinois cannot be changed unless the Illinois constitution is changed?=== The Google Key is your friend. Your talking points above (guessing you’re - AM -) seem to indicate you “know” things… - Get a Job!! - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:17 pm: AM - the state pays more today because they didn’t pay yesterday……that how debt works, you see. When you skip a payment, that liability doesn’t go away, it grows. And those pension holidays are the fault of a lot of people. Speaker Madigan is certainly near the top of that list, but so are several Republican Governors. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:21 pm: Again, when I say future pension”s I should of said “new” employees that would get future pensions. It seemed like others understood what I meant? - City Zen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:23 pm: @titan - You’re not including a few things, mainly state education funding which directly impacts teacher salaries at the local level. If the state drastically cut funding in a school district to instead pay pensions (a form of compensation), either the local district would have raised taxes to make up the difference or froze salaries (probably somewhere in between). The end result would be less take home pay and smaller pensions. - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:25 pm: == We owe it to the current retirees to make good on what they were promised but change needs to come to illinois (401K’s etc.) == -AM-, using math, please explain how a 401K program with any level of State employer match is cheaper than the current Tier 2 pension system. - Get a Job!! - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:26 pm: One other thing people don’t give credit for is that Pat Quinn’ tax increase was really well done. By that I mean that it was almost the perfect size & length that IL needed, based on the assumption Quinn used when he conceived it. The biggest problem with the Quinncome tax was that it was that the timing roll-back of the rate was based on a faulty assumption that the Pension reform bill would withstand a Supreme Court challenge. Obviously that was a huge miss-step by Quinn/Democrats, but it is a fact that the Quinncome tax achieved what it was designed to do which is to pay down the backlog. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:28 pm: ===Again, when I say future pension”s I should of said “new” employees that would get future pensions. It seemed like others understood what I meant?=== I understood completely. You understand what the answer actually is… Pretending you don’t, it’s a tired game. Use the Google Key if you are “so confused”, but it seemed you know the answer. Why pretend you don’t. - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:36 pm: == Maybe I will lean something here. So you are telling me that it is “fact” that future pensions in Illinois cannot be changed unless the Illinois constitution is changed? == Future pensions for new hires can be whatever the GA will pass and Rauner will sign. But before you jump on the 401K bandwagon, I suggest you educate yourself about the Tier 2 pension structure. You can start with what I wrote yesterday, and just keep going back for years. You’ll discover Tier 2 is designed to be paid for with just the employee contributions; it is zero cost to the employer (State). If you offer an employer match to a 401K program, it will have a cost to the State. So I repeat my question: what is cheaper to the State than free? - Tommydanger - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:49 pm: RNUG: I thought the Tier 2 people were actually paying more than needed to cover their pension costs in order to chop away at the Tier 1 shortfall. - PublicServant - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 1:51 pm: ===The refusal to accept these basic facts never ceases to amaze me.=== That Rauner was elected governor on the basis of a slogan, and only that slogan never ceases to amaze. - RNUG - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 2:04 pm: == I thought the Tier 2 people were actually paying more than needed to cover their pension costs in order to chop away at the Tier 1 shortfall. == -Tommydanger- as you point out, actually, they are, but it doesn’t retire very much of it … estimated at somewhere around 6% if you use the document -lake county- linked to yesterday. The fact remains Tier 2 employee contributions are designed pay for Tier 2 liabilities with no State payments; in effect, free. - Whatever - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 2:29 pm: AM @ 11:28 == I worked for a fortune 100 company and over 15 years ago they got rid of defined pensions. This state just like the country needs to be run like a business. This is our hard earned money.== And what did they do with the surplus that was in the pension fund at the time they closed it down? I’ll bet there was one - if they had closed the plan with a deficit in the fund, they would have had to pay up immediately, but if there was a surplus they could grab it for themselves. - City Zen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 2:42 pm: ==One other thing people don’t give credit for is that Pat Quinn’ tax increase was really well done. By that I mean that it was almost the perfect size & length that IL needed== Don’t forget help from the Feds. For 2 of those 4 years, Quinn’s 2% state income tax hike was hidden by Obama lowering the SSI contribution by 2%. - Arthur Andersen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 3:30 pm: AM, since you don’t appear to be familiar with the fundamentals-defined benefit pensions are funded by three components. Member contributions, Employer Contributions, and Investment Earnings on those accumulated contributions. There’s no dispute that the members have faithfully paid their share. Over the long haul, 30 years, the investment returns have exceeded assumed returns. The Employer (State) had no funding plan, and then created two that were short of actuarially sound, One $2 billion cut by Blagojevich has by now added several times that amount to the unfunded liability. Also keep in mind that contributions that were not paid are not there to earn money for the pension fund. The State “does not pay more in pensions than any employer.” It pays higher contributions to make up for past shortfalls. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 4:15 pm: Good post’s. I understand all the reasons for keeping pensions that were earned. But the Illinois is very underfunded and most of our taxpayer money goes toward funding the very generous pensions! $300,000 pensions, give me a break! - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 4:18 pm: ===But the Illinois is very underfunded and most of our taxpayer money goes toward funding the very generous pensions! $300,000 pensions, give me a break!=== Yeah, this is probably why o didn’t respond to your ignorance… - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 4:24 pm: What is Illinois going to do when more an more people leave the state because no one will do reforms? They will pass on the shortfall to the average taxpayer.. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 4:26 pm: ===What is Illinois going to do when more an more people leave the state because no one will do reforns.=== Please list a cite that “reforms” are the reason people are leaving. ===average taxpayer=== We’re all taxpayers, please keep up. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 4:29 pm: I cited reforms. Why do you think they are leaving? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 4:30 pm: Nah, you can say anything you want… Cite where it’s “reforms”, other than you just saying it is. Thanks. - titan - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 4:32 pm: — - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 4:15 pm: Good post’s. I understand all the reasons for keeping pensions that were earned. But the Illinois is very underfunded and most of our taxpayer money goes toward funding the very generous pensions! $300,000 pensions, give me a break! — Those are the outlier exceptions, not the norm. And the majority of the money does not go for funding them, the big chunk of the pension deficit is paying back what was “borrowed” in the past, it does not go to paying the going forward costs. - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:11 pm: Oswego..You are very good at picking on words. I have not seen any of your thoughts or idea’s posted on this thread. Mmm, where have I seen this before, was it the Presidential election? We all know how that ended up. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:15 pm: - AM 1) Making it about me isn’t making an argument. 2) Drive-by national politics is also not making a point. 3) Use the Google Key, my thoughts are found there without looking too hard. I guess you couldn’t cite “reforms” as the reason people are leaving, or… - Markus - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:21 pm: AM- Please go get the facts from a reliable source. See Chart 24 in the COGFA report. The average state employee retirement benefit in FY 2016 was $35,617. Keep in mind they don’t get social security payments for that service because their state pension was in lieu of social security allowing the state to not make employer payments to social security. The average state retiree is not getting rich off their pensions. http://cgfa.ilga.gov/Upload/FinConditionILStateRetirementSysMar2017.pdf - Smitty Irving - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:22 pm: AM - ask Pate Philip if he was controlled by Mike Madigan. City Zen - pay attention, as Rich has pointed out, that increase was built into Edgar’s Pension Ramp. The extra large May 2012 group of retirees din’t help. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:22 pm: So I google Oswego Willy and I will find your thoughts? See I’m not that smart that I would just goole to find your thoughts. Who are you..:) - City Zen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:25 pm: @Smitty - Pay attention..we paid MORE into the pension funds and the liability still increased, ramp or no ramp. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:26 pm: ===Who are you=== “No one of consequence… “ - Smitty Irving - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:27 pm: City Zen - the increase was written into Edgar’s 1995 law (which the Trib Editorial Board praised in 1997). - AM - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:29 pm: Just a taxpayer like you..:) Sure..No one of consequence..:) - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 5:31 pm: - AM - You missed the Easter Egg there… We’re all taxpayers. - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 6:17 pm: –Again, when I say future pension”s I should of said “new” employees that would get future pensions. It seemed like others understood what I meant?– Enough already. Make an effort. For someone with such strong opinions on the subject, you’re remarkably uninformed. Is there some government program that entitles you to others spoon-feeding you easily obtainable basic information? Do we get tax breaks or something for giving you tutorials? You obviously can type, so let your fingers do the walking on the google and educate yourself just even a little bit before you waste everyone’s time with your ignorant grievances. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 6:32 pm: ==I should have known, this is a site for democrat thoughts only. No Republicans allowed== AM are you saying that Rich bans Republican thoughts? Perhaps your Republican friends are busy at the Illinois Policy Institute blog, blaming Madigan. - City Zen - Thursday, Apr 13, 17 @ 7:13 pm: @Smitty - That increase was for the contribution, NOT the unfunded liability. We made a much larger payment and STILL couldn’t prevent the liability from growing. That’s the problem. - Smitty Irving - Friday, Apr 14, 17 @ 9:13 am: Actually, the current increase in liability was written into the law. As Rich has pointed out before, liability will continue to increase for a few more years, by design. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.