92 Comments - Amalia - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 9:56 am: His Facebook page is still up. - illini - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 9:58 am: I checked Facebook as well. Partisan and passionate posts. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:05 am: - Puddintaine - Stop. Thank you. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:10 am: Thanks for posting Rich. Now let’s see if we comnenters can control ourselves & act like adults instead of Ghouls determined to ride our political hobby horses through fields of gore. - A guy - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:11 am: Puddintaine, How about respectfully chiding you for exhibiting less than compassionate taste at an inappropriate time? Nothing funny here. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:12 am: Nuts come in all flavors. - Curl of the Burl - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:13 am: Sadly - but unfortunately expected - people on social media are rationalizing this and making excuses for the shooting. - Texas Red - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:14 am: according to Daily Telegraph… Mr Hodgkinson was vociferous on social media about his dislike for Donald Trump and reportedly volunteered on political campaigns for Bernie Sanders. - Ward Heeler - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:14 am: Sadly, given the toxic rhetoric that has continued unabated since the presidential election, this crime was not much of a surprise. I remember when the Left lectured us all on the need to move on. It is high time that we all do so. - Glengarry - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:17 am: Congressman Davis just gave a great interview to CNN. I concur with Davis, the rhetorical partisan hate must end. - David - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:17 am: He watched Russia Today.That is where Ed Shultz is. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:20 am: ===I remember when the Left lectured…=== This individual, not unlike the Left, or the Right… is an individual who did what try did. Making this political is missing what actually happened. - Give Me A Break - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:23 am: This is the second time an Illinois resident has had committed a violent crime impacting Congress with a firearm in DC. Last time mental health was an issue when Russel Weston Jr. fired shots in the US Capital that claimed a life. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:24 am: =Nuts come in all flavors.= This is it. =I remember when the Left lectured us all on the need to move on. = Not helping. I just read an article on how the numbers in the militia “movement” are on the rise. A group usually associated with the political right. And then we have today’s shooting. My point, people are feeling more and more alienated and disenfranchised than ever. This isn’t due to a single factor or side of the political spectrum but it is happening with increasing vitriol and it really is a problem. The political divide is making it worse. In my life time I have never experienced such political hate. I can only gather through historical accounts but this must have been what the mood was like in the 1850′ and early 1860’s. That is a problem. - Not the answer - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:25 am: Irrational behavior can not be debated rationally. violence is never justified in rational debate. - AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:26 am: Prayers for all. The dope will soon realize that he only hurt his “cause,” whatever he considered it to be. I’ve had a thought, Rich, that I’d like to share. A thank you, mostly. The way you moderate this site really lends itself to peaceful and sophisticated (relative to the times ) discourse. I understand it’s a huge leap from cuss words and insults to shootings, but at other blogs I comment at, where people attack each other personally and swear or use symbols to substitute for banned language, I can honestly feel the intensity of the hatred. And when the air is thick with hate, there is no room for discussion. Here in Illinois, it’s no exaggeration to suggest that the Federal hyper-partisan hatred should be magnified, considering our situation. But as the premier Illinois-centric political blog, you keep it between the lines. Thank you, kudos, and cheers. - Illinois O'Malleyi - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:28 am: Daily Herald says this is 154th mass shooting this year, so are we as a country doing to address this issue or forgot about it by Friday? - SOIL M - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:28 am: I was going to post what OW said. So now will just echo. This was an act carried out by one individual, who made his own choice. Do not get caught in blaming the entire left wing for the actions of one deranged person. Those who have been spouting the hate rhetoric are wrong for spreading and encouraging hate, but do not answer hate with hate. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:29 am: You can actively, lawfully and peacefully oppose abortion in the public square without somehow being responsible for Robert Dear or Eric Rudolph. A nut is a nut is a nut. - Ward Heeler - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:34 am: I have to agree with Representative Davis. The shooter’s activities on social media are res ipsa loquitur. I have read nothing to indicate that Hodgkinson is a militia member. The hate speech needs to end. - LizPhairTax - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:35 am: Congressman Davis, with respect, you’ve just joined with many Americans who have said some form of “I never thought I’d [INSERT MUNDANE, EVERYDAY ACTIVITY] and have to dodge bullets.” The question for another day is now that you have felt that, what are you going to do about it? - Oneman - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:39 am: the range, in general, is an issue that needs to be addressed, but I don’t see how. We have convinced ourselves that those whom we disagree with or have a different view of things are not only wrong but actively seeking to harm others and harm us. With that attitude, I am surprised this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often. Technology today allows us to vent our rage and find others with our rage, validating rage on a scale unimaginable before. Too many today listen to only voices they agree with, some even brag that their friends all agree with them (good golly wouldn’t that lead to a boring life). The general anger is the reason I stepped back from my involvement, who wants to deal with angry folks who are convinced of the righteousness of their positions like people in church. Mr Rodgers as talked about looking for the helpers. today I might suggest on social media you look for the rage. - Steve Rogers - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:39 am: I think everyone in the nation needs to take a step back. When there is constant demonization of the other side–whether political, racial, economic, religious, gender, whatever–you will have zealots on the fringe try take matters in their own hands. People need to realize words matter and tone matters. Collectively, we should be more advanced than this, smarter than this. Frankly, I’m tired of this. - Because I Said So.... - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:40 am: It’s frightening to see how seemingly rational people get pushed to the brink. - Texas Red - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:40 am: From Belleville-News Democrat… The shooter is James T. Hodgkinson of Belleville, who belongs to a number of anti-Republican groups, including one called “Terminate the Republican Party.” - Jose Abreu's last homer - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:41 am: Mr Hodgkinson is no more. - Amalia - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:43 am: as they say in court, death suggested, cause abated. the shooter is dead. - W Flag - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:43 am: It gets worse and worse. TMZ has posted more of shooter’s rants from the month of March. He hated the president and wanted him and other GOP members destroyed. I am paraphrasing because I do not want to post a quotation. - Stones - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:45 am: I’m saddened that this criminal was from Illinois. Another black eye for our state. - David - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:46 am: He really hates Hillary and wanted a ban on baggy pants according to the FB page.. What was his primary voting before 2016 - Aldyth - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:48 am: There is an enormous amount of rage out there. We have a Congressman who flattened a reporter on his election night. Aggression against immigrants, gays, and minorities has flaired. The anger on both sides is coming out as violence. Rage + guns + opportunity = violence The formula is there and I believe we will see more of it. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:50 am: The hate stuff will not end - how will it end? It makes a lot of money for those that speak it, for the media platforms that enable it, ergo support it. Everyone seems to hate ‘hate’, and their denunciations often are hateful to prove their passion. In a few days this tragic event will be forgotten as the sides line up to hatefully blame the others side, i.e., “the haters”. - Illinois O'Malley - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:50 am: Let’s be honest here, another guy went crazy and shot people, no different than Dylan Roof, Navy Yard shooter, Pulse night club, Rep Giffords massacre, etc. And Scalise had armed guards and he was still shot. So will Rodney Davis and Congress do anything? - Help Us - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:50 am: Steve Rogers I totally agree - Someone you should know - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 10:56 am: I thought Rod Davis was pretty measured, a lot more measured than I would have been. I disagree with him on most, but he’s always been a decent guy to me. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:01 am: – what was his primary voting before March 2016– For crying out loud… I He was an attempted mass murdering lunatic. History shows every one of these “quiet types” had a deranged, perverted rationalization for their actions. Pope Francis is opposed to abortion. Robert Dear, also opposed to abortion, went on a shooting spree at Planned Parenthood in Denver. Pope Francis and those who oppose abortion are not responsible for Robert Dear. Is that so difficult? - HangingOn - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:04 am: I was horrified watching the news this morning when they reported this. I may have become disenchanted with the GOP in the past few years, but I explained to my daughter that this was just wrong and we should pray that no lives are lost. No matter what you think of any politician or either party, this is not the way to handle it. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:05 am: Thanks to the swift action and heroism of the Capitol Police. They saved many lives today. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:05 am: This should not be used as an excuse for Gun Control which so seem to be advocating for. “Do Something” Well, gun control is not the answer - Louis G. Atsaves - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:11 am: “I think everyone in the nation needs to take a step back. When there is constant demonization of the other side–whether political, racial, economic, religious, gender, whatever–you will have zealots on the fringe try take matters in their own hands. People need to realize words matter and tone matters. Collectively, we should be more advanced than this, smarter than this. Frankly, I’m tired of this.” Steve Rogers, I agree with you 100%. Thanks for posting that. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:17 am: Is it wrong to be happy his name was Hodgkinson and not Muhammad? Is it better that he was a domestic, left wing nut job than a jihadist? My first reaction upon learning his name was relief that it wasn’t a terrorist attack. My second reaction was, that doesn’t make this horrible event any less terrifying. - Louis G. Atsaves - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:18 am: Washington Post is reporting that the shooter died in the hospital. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:21 am: ===upon learning his name was relief that it wasn’t a terrorist attack=== Terrorists can also be old white hateful Bernie bros from the Metro East. It wasn’t terror from abroad, but neither was OKC. It wasn’t organized terror, but neither was Zale Thompson. But it was a terrorist attempt. - Slippin' Jimmy - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:24 am: ‘ A house divided against itself cannot stand’ A Lincoln - Rod - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:26 am: This was an extremely political shooting in my opinion and Mr Hodgkins clearly researched where the Republicans would be practicing at and carried out an ambush. If not for the two members of the security team present, both wounded by the way, it would have been a slaughter. I agree with JS Mill’s comments in general. I have friends who are hard core supporters of President Trump who are very vocal in their belief that there is a conspiracy afoot to overturn the election of President Trump. The shooting today deeply confirms those thoughts and does not bode well for the future. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:29 am: I’m super concerned that this is just the beginning of this. I am terrified that this may be the start of a cycle of violence and counter violence that leads to the loss of democratic dialogue and engagement and the loss of civil liberties. I really believe we will see free ranging quasi deputized militias and even bombings. Mark my words. Someone will go after an insurance company at some point. Someone is going to go after politicians like today. Am I alone in thinking we may have just crossed some kind of invisible Rubicon? I know I’ve “evolved” in my thinking. I was all for cussing Rauner when it happened a while back. I used to be whacked when Rich would bench a post of mine for tone. This event today has shaken me because I more clearly than ever see the path that led to this. As well as seeing the path that leads to greater engagement dialogue and accountability. We have to wrestle harder folks but within the confines of the ring of democratic institution and dialogue. I exhort those on the right to see the same lessons and to stop usurping the democratic process like this brinksmanship that Rauner is using. Stop the hostage taking. Negotiate a budget. 90% is a win. Holding out for 100% is not negotiating and makes people suffer which caused the helplessness that Hodgkinson may have felt and motivated him to pursue this evil act. I believe the shooter took matters in his own hand to address the profound helplessness. DEMS, work actively with the other side if they show good faith efforts. Give them wins. Loving God we need to back way the hell off this cliff. I’ll start with myself I so apologize to those I have berated, minimized, or mocked. Johnniepyledriver I’m especially sorry I went after you. I ask specifically for your forgiveness. I think contrition can be a part of the step towards each other. - W Flag - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:31 am: @47th Ward: The deceased shooter’s postings on social media, which are probably being embargoed now, show that this was a deliberate attack and that Hodgkinson was boasting about it by making cryptic comments about watching the news on a given future date. This was a terror attack and the targets were chosen on the basis of their political party affiliation. His surname is irrelevant. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:33 am: Wordslinger, Well said at 11:01. - Flynn's mom - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:35 am: So sad….prayers for all. - Allen D - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:36 am: we all need to learn to work get along - Allen D - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:37 am: excuse me - we all need to learn to work together. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:39 am: ===His surname is irrelevant=== Not in my opinion. But I freely acknowledge there are a lot of varying opinions on the matter. Fortunately the shooter was the only fatality. - David - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:41 am: Honeybear it is here. We saw the neo Nazi terror attack in Portland. Like this not a big organization but like the Chicago violence after the collapse of organized gangs. - RNUG - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:49 am: == So will Rodney Davis and Congress do anything? == If there is anything to be done by Congress and the political parties, it is: (a) dialing down the intensity of the political rhetoric and (b) better programs to address mental health issues - Rod - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:50 am: JS Mill’s concerns are indeed being realized over at the Brietbart site. See the comments posted in relation to this article by Brietbart’s editor http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/06/14/james-t-hodgkinson-report-scalise-shooting-suspect-campaigned-bernie-sanders/ Rich would have deleted many of these comments without question and when violence is being proposed against political opponents a line has been crossed. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:52 am: I think this still qualifies as a terrorist attack by definition. - David - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:53 am: And enforcing existing him laws. Apears he has a domestic violence street. Even if a misdeameanor he should not have had a FOID or a gun. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:55 am: ===I think this still qualifies as a terrorist attack by definition.=== Agreed. So are the multiple shootings in Chicago that seem to occur on a nightly basis. - Rod - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 11:58 am: What JS Mill feared is indeed happening in the posts over at the Brietbart site right now. There are indeed people advocating violence against the liberal left and in some cases Democrats in general using the idea they shot first. Rich to his credit would have deleted in mass dozens of these posts. No doubt many are blowhards, but it only takes one or two to be serious for a blood bath to ensue. Very scary indeed and I say that as gun owner and supporter of 2nd amendment rights. - It Needs to Stop - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 12:06 pm: Political extremism is an equal opportunity game. Remember Scott Foval (who formerly worked with Robert Creamer)? He used to seek out “crazies” to disrupt political events. Sometimes, violence resulted. Such activities are wrong if they originate on the left, right or center of the political spectrum. - winners and losers - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 12:12 pm: What holds a society together are not just laws, police, jails, but trust and a feeling among most of us that we are in this together. Throughout history divisive politics, Great Recessions or Depressions, and/or social discontent have torn apart societies. For us this may be a blip, or a further sign of a long slow decline. We can never take the United States for granted. - CLJ - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 12:14 pm: The reaction around DC is interesting. The shock is real among many here. I get a sense that people really think that nothing like this could or would happen here. - RNUG - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 12:17 pm: Disenfranchised people / people with little economic hope believe they have nothing to lose. We appear to be returning to the era of the robber barons and political bosses (sometimes one and the same). Maybe a history lesson / reminder is needed. Anyone remember when Congress was bombed in 1915? Or the Wall Street bombing of 1920? That was a period when the 1% were doing very well … and it was, mostly, before the rise of unions and the middle class. My point is vast economic inequality seems to drive rebellion … and the policies the 1% are currently pursuing in some states and nationally are increasing such inequality and weakening the middle class. From a cynical viewpoint, I saw this trend starting over 30 years ago, and decided back then, given the choice and opportunity, I wanted to try to be in the upper 10% rather than the lower 90%. Don’t get me wrong. I’m still of a conservative / libertarian bent. I still believe a lot of things are way over regulated. But I’m a moderate / centerist in that I believe we have to help the weaker among us (but also try to weed out the able-bodied and scammers). Until we do that, I expect the violence to continue. - Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 12:45 pm: I have to respectfully disagree that gangbangers shooting each other (and bystanders) aren’t terrorists. There’s nothing political in their actions, they’re not trying to change anyone’s minds. This guy, though, was a terrorist. And I probably agree with him on a lot of issues, just not the one that includes picking up a firearm and attempting to kill/maim people I don’t agree with. - Amalia - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 12:46 pm: yep, like many others, this guy had a history of domestic violence. more attention must be paid to this as a harbinger of other violence to come. - Chuckee Baby - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 12:55 pm: So, what Hate Groups did Hodgkinson belong to? Maybe the Southern Poverty Law Center can comment? - Liberty - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 12:56 pm: Deplorable - Chuckee Baby - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:03 pm: Shooter seemed to get his criminal charges dismissed over many years…Why all the dismissals? Belleville News-Democrat update on 2006 violent incident. http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article156104584.html - illinois manufacturer - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:09 pm: Yep. Domestc Violence. The unenforced Lautenbug amendment - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:16 pm: 51st Ward: Just. Stop. Some of you just can’t resist going off the rails when something like this happens. I’m embarrassed for you. - Amalia - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:18 pm: while it seems that once again, authority figures should have intervened in this guys life in a more meaningful way sooner, and his family sure has some issues, I feel badly that Belleville is now under a microscope about this guy. - gdubya - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:19 pm: “(b) better programs to address mental health issues ” If only we had a budget….. - Back to the Mountains - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:21 pm: It is astonishing to me that we can’t even agree that this was terrorism, that it shouldn’t have happened, and that certain events are above politics. I agree with Rep. Davis. He shouldn’t have to go to a baseball practice and dodge bullets. No-one should have to live their life dodging bullets. It’s true for him as a member of Congress, and it’s true for kids in Chicago. Terrorism does not require a political motive. Terrorism is the use of intimidation or violence to inflict terror. Terror is intense fear. A shooting in a neighborhood in Chicago is as much terrorism as this was. The real question is why does the definition matter? Whether it’s put in the terrorism bucket or not, multiple people have had their lives irreversibly changed by a guy with a gun. Instead of fighting over the proper definition, why don’t we try to prevent it from happening in the future. Prayers for Rep. Scalise and all others affected. Personally can’t stand his political views, but a big part of the American experiment is the thought that what you believe shouldn’t be a death sentence. Some nutcase tried to ignore that part today, and I’m glad he failed. - I said it - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:40 pm: To much hate speech and discenssion in the alphabet soup of news. Half like half hate. Get over it. If we don’t work for each other. We will whither. - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:58 pm: I am not surprized. With the exception of Abraham Lincoln, I have not found any president who has been villified to the extent Trump has been. It is shocking how emotional normally rational people and organizations have been over everything this president does. This man was someone who felt driven to murder because of his reasonings based upon his politics. I believe that there are many others who believe as he did. We have numerous blog postings in sympathy. This mass insanity has to stop. We have survived poor presidents throughout our history. There is no reason to want the current president, his supporters or his political party harmed. Enough with the baseless conspiracies, enough with the 24/7 hate-filled news cycle, enough with the idea that the 2016 election wasn’t perfect enough to accept. I am not surprised. - btowntruthfromforgottonia - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 2:15 pm: A lot of the rhetoric needs to be reeled in.And that’s not happening. More than likely this is only the beginning. Honeybear is right. - W Flag - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 2:22 pm: @Vanilla Man: The shooter’s on line ramblings are fairly extensive. He blamed the GOP for the Great Depression, wanted higher taxes imposed on the 1% and even posted complaints directed against the governor of a certain Midwestern state. - ArchPundit - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 2:23 pm: The general definition of terrorism is violence targeted towards civilians for a political purpose so this qualifies under the general definition of terrorism. You could get into an academic debate about whether MoC are civilians, but they are not police or the military so I would count them as civilian leadership. Attacks against police or military would not generally be terrorism if they are trying to make a political point because they are granted the monopoly on violence the state holds and so an attack on them would be an act of war or rebellion. It doesn’t make it right, but attacking the armed agents of the state counts as a different type of attack. In popular discussion we seem to include attacks on the military and police as terrorism, but I don’t think any of us would defend 24 hour news channels as capable of nuance. Right wing domestic terrorism has been more prevalent in recent years–really since the 1990s at least. The type of groups that have grown on the right tend to be anti-government groups and so they tend to be willing to resort to violence. This does not mean that every conservative is responsible for them, it’s just the record of the last 25 years at least.. I think we might be seeing an increase in those types of groups on the left with some of the antifa groups that are growing and are willing to use violence to make a political point. - Chuckee Baby - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 2:24 pm: Hodgkinson had been living in YMCA next to field for several weeks. Wonder if he had been planning this/stalking during that time? Per NY Daily News http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/alexandria-shooting-suspect-identified-james-t-hodgkinson-article-1.3246836 - titan - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 2:24 pm: +++ - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 1:58 pm: I am not surprized. With the exception of Abraham Lincoln, I have not found any president who has been villified to the extent Trump has been. It is shocking how emotional normally rational people and organizations have been over everything this president does. +++ In all fairness, Clinton, Bush II and Obama had highly unhinged and rabid detractors (not to say that there wasn’t room for reasonable people to disagree with all of them - but the derangement syndromes were widespread for each). To a lesser degree, Reagan had a contingent of pretty rabid detractors too. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 2:45 pm: ==Shooter seemed to get his criminal charges dismissed over many years…Why all the dismissals? == This. People keep insinuating that this person was illegally possessing because he had “previous run-ins” with the law, including a domestic violence arrest. The key word is arrest, not conviction. You can’t deny someone a right based on an accusation without due process. If the question is why was someone accused of domestic violence allowed to posses…the answer needs to come from the State’s Attorney who didn’t pursue the charges. - Bobio - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 3:21 pm: I’m watching a very classy presser between the two congressional baseball team managers but I did hear one of the worst choices of words from Rep Barton. When asked if he felt safe without having a security detail he said “nobody put a gun to my head to get me to run” - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 3:44 pm: Hateful rhetoric needs to end — on both sides, on all sides. This is a tragedy, one which is connected to hatred, and too easy access to firearms (in spite of a domestic violence arrest), and very likely mental health issues. Having said all that, the right of individuals to state their views frankly — be it on social media, protest signs, or in letters to their elected representatives and in questions posed at town hall meetings — is vital to the continued success of our democratic experiment. The first amendment, I would argue, is five times as vital to democracy as the second amendment. I have not heard a single member of the GOP congressional caucus advocate any serious pulling back on second amendment rights today. I do fear, however, that Mr. Trump and many of his supporters will use this tragedy to argue against the rights of dissenting yet peaceful, law-abiding Americans to speak out strongly against polices which they oppose. And that would be a terrible outcome, whether one identifies as Republican, Democratic, or independent. - Veil of Ignorance - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 3:53 pm: This is terrible. Extremely sad and disturbing that any person can just unleash this kind of harm on the public. I’m not making any political argument here, just expressing discomfort at how frequent these incidents now are…there’s something culturally that needs to change in our society. Thank God the police were on site. - TooManyJens - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 3:56 pm: I just want to point out that the example Rodney Davis gave of “political, rhetorical terrorism” was “stories about policies that are going to lead to the death of people.” http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article156065789.html The CBO says the AHCA will cause millions of people to lose health insurance. Harvard says people without insurance are more likely to die than people with it. Putting those two facts together makes us rhetorical terrorists? - Red tower - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 4:21 pm: I find that CNN tweet rather ironic since that is what has been happening all over the country with guns all over the place. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 4:37 pm: I agree with those who say more civil and honest discourse would be great. But the First Amendment protects the grifters and the charlatans who poison public discourse for money, too. But I think it’s a stretch to blame anyone but the nut who started spraying in Alexandria, the other nut today in SF, or the other 193 nuts in mass shootings so far this year in this country. Still, after his experience today, I wonder if Sen. Paul will reflect on his past red-meat, dorm-room debate club rhetoric: –Senator Rand Paul ✔ @RandPaul .@Judgenap: Why do we have a Second Amendment? It’s not to shoot deer. It’s to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical! 11:48 AM - 23 Jun 2016– The nut from Belleville likely thought he was doing just that. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 4:41 pm: –The second is how this may play out when it is used as an emblem for the basis of political mobilization. The Reichstag has just been set on fire. We must all be careful about what we permit to happen next.– Do you really think invoking the Reichstag fire, with no basis, is being “careful?” - CrazyHorse - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 4:42 pm: ==The CBO says the AHCA will cause millions of people to lose health insurance. Harvard says people without insurance are more likely to die than people with it. Putting those two facts together makes us rhetorical terrorists?== I don’t like the term rhetorical terrorism but it is clearly fear mongering. It’s fanning flames. While it may be true that millions of people will lose health insurance due to AHCA, saying or even implying that those millions will now die if it passes not only defies logic but it is a reckless and dangerous statement designed to promote fear and anger. - TooManyJens - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 5:56 pm: Nobody’s saying that everyone who loses health insurance will die, but the data tell us that there will be people, possibly in the tens of thousands, who die avoidable deaths because they lose health insurance. http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/ Are you claiming that’s not true? Or should we just not say it because it’s harsh? - Responsa - Wednesday, Jun 14, 17 @ 8:15 pm: ==Are you claiming that’s not true? Or should we just not say it because it’s harsh?== TooManyJens–How about thinking about it like this?: Maybe what you are selling is not relevant to the issues about ginned up hate, mentally ill people and attempted political assassinations presented and being discussed in this particular thread? - easy battery reconditioning - Wednesday, Jun 28, 17 @ 9:43 am: The Best Way to Make Use of a Free Video Battery Charger Superior article on batteries. It had been short. I found out that you are able to re-condition any battery. I found it in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJcGyxSWe88 Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.