* University of Illinois Executive Vice President Barbara Wilson…
“We know for a fact that Texas A&M and the University of Texas have a special fund set aside to go poach Illinois faculty,” Wilson said. “We’ve been told that by numerous individuals, including some of the faculty they’re going after. So, we do have a reputational challenge in front of us, and I think part of the challenge is that our peers think that we’re struggling and they are going to use that opportunity to try and attract talent away.”
Those efforts increased by nearly 40 percent during the budget impasse, Wilson said.
And though the university was able to keep most of their talent, “it’s a lot of energy, a lot of time, and a lot of money to counter these offers from other institutions,” Wilson said.
* Tribune…
Enter the University of Alabama. It awarded 203 full-tuition scholarships, out of 305 total, to freshman Illinoisans in 2017, defraying more than $100,000 in costs per student. The university has nearly quintupled over the past decade the amount of institutional, non-need-based aid it awards. […]
In 2016, Alabama spent more than $136.3 million in merit scholarships, which are not based on a family’s financial need, according to university data. That is up from $28.5 million a decade ago.
For many of these students, the equation was simple. Admitted students with at least a 3.5 grade point average and a 32 ACT or 1400 SAT score received full tuition for four years. The requirements are more stringent for incoming freshmen in 2018. In 2017, the average high school GPA of incoming freshmen was 3.72; one-third of students had a 4.0; more than 40 percent of the class scored a 30 or higher on their ACTs.
Even with tuition covered, Alabama still wins, collecting around $18,000 a year from out-of-state students for room and board and other expenses, more than the sticker price for in-state students.
* But…
Meanwhile, the UI is about to announce what President Tim Killeen said are “top-echelon” faculty members being pursued from other universities.
Wilson said the Distinguished Faculty Recruitment Program, launched last year to recruit senior faculty from around the country, “is on the cusp of making an announcement about several high-level people that we’ve recruited as part of the program. The goal is to bring in 10 to 12 senior-level faculty across the three universities each year.”
The three-year, $60 million effort will provide one-time grants not for salary “but for start-up funds to build labs and to create opportunities for graduate students, because if you’re a tenured faculty member at a really good university, you’re not going to come in and start over,” Wilson said. “So we have to create the kind of context to woo great faculty.”
* And…
UI President Tim Killeen told senators that he wants to increase the university system’s enrollment, now just under 84,000, to 93,000 by 2021.
Most of the enrollment growth would be at the Chicago and Springfield campuses, he said.
“It’s a mix of things. At Urbana, we’d be strongly propelling the distance education, the online components,” he explained after the hearing. “We’d also be looking at professional master’s programs at Urbana since the undergraduate classes are close to capacity.” […]
UI Vice President Wilson said the freshman class at the Urbana campus “is about as big as it can be right now, because everybody has to live in the residence halls, and there are capacity issues there as well as concerns about whether you can get the classes you need to graduate. They’re about tapped out on the freshman level, but they can bring in more transfer students.”
Killeen also said that the UI will continue a tuition freeze for in-state undergraduates for the fourth consecutive year next fall and that he would like to extend it at least two years beyond that.
- Sue - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:13 am:
Why would anyone working for the U of I look to leave and relocate to a well funded growing respected Univerdity System?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:19 am:
If you think it’s a joke to families when schools, like an Alabama, talk directly to students on their visit and say…
“When you leave here, you will have an education we paid for you.”
… then an Illinois University, with the same credentials discuss how easy it is to get student loans.
- Ron Burgundy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:22 am:
My kid was offered from $20K - $32K a year in merit-based scholarships from private universities both inside and outside of IL. Because UIUC hands out what money it has based on need, they offered $0. Some of those private universities are now comparable if not lower than UIUC in cost of attendance because of it. The way college aid works these days, the people that really are squeezed are the middle class. The wealthy can afford it no matter the cost, and low-income folks get need-based aid which sometimes pays a full ride. It’s the ones in the middle who get stuck with 6 figures of loans because they make just enough not to get need-based aid.
- Amalia - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:23 am:
well, sometimes you get what you don’t pay for. Alabama. seriously?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:26 am:
===Alabama. seriously?===
Tell that to NASA…
https://bit.ly/2eMHR51
- City Zen - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:29 am:
Dear Intelligent Illinois Professor,
1. Austin
2. No state income tax
3. Austin
When should we expect you?
Sincerely,
University of Texas System
- wordslinger - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:30 am:
The fact that Alabama values our kids and their education opportunities more than we do should be a two-by-four to the pumpkin of everyone in the state.
That’s quite a jolt of infuriating and depressing, both at the same time.
- Leigh John-Ella - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:31 am:
– A decade ago, 147 Illinoisans were enrolled in Tuscaloosa. That number hit 1,623 last fall, encompassing hometowns across the state from Fox Lake to Creal Springs and from Quincy to Shawneetown. –
When you’ve lost Shaneetown, it’s lights out.
BTW, for everyone who says young people don’t pay attention to politics, just look at all the kids leaving Illinois “because Madigan.”
Countdown till the gov, or Trib edit board use this line/excuse.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:33 am:
The snobbery, we are losing students to Iowa State, Purdue, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama…
Get what you pay for?
Have you seen the facilities at Iowa State. Full funding and merit scholarships will do that.
How about Kentucky? Flagship university, poaching.
Been to Austin? UT isn’t afraid to show off the experience.
… and they close with… “…and in the end, the debt you have back home won’t exist if you come here”
The whole point is to keep Illinois students, not keep them to have debt they could easily avoid.
- Norseman - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:33 am:
Another side effect of Rauner’s malicious tenure.
- Amalia - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:34 am:
how’s the public school system in Alabama? it used to be one of the worst in the nation.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:36 am:
===how’s the public school system in Alabama? it used to be one of the worst in the nation.==
We’re talking about the University of Alabama.
Keep up.
- A guy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:51 am:
Many of the SEC schools are doing what Alabama is doing, including Ole Miss. They are aggressively going after the best and brightest in the south as well across state borders.
Irony here: No one is trying to poach our coaches, are they?
- DuPage - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:51 am:
The tier 2 pensions do not help attract or retain faculty at U of I, or any other public college or university in Illinois.
- NeverPoliticallyCorrect - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:53 am:
This problem didn’t start with Rauner, it’s just that he hasn’t addressed it. This reflects a state political class that is more concerned with themselves than the people they represent. Also, that means more Dems are to blame for this over the long term. We’ll have a new governor next year and then we’ll see if he has the ability to get needed changes or if the Madigan Mopes in the legislature continue to fiddle while the state burns down.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 10:59 am:
===This problem didn’t start with Rauner, it’s just that he hasn’t addressed it. This reflects a state political class that is more concerned with themselves than the people they represent.===
(Sigh)
Rauner has yet to fully fund an entire fiscal year of Higher Education with his signature.
No other giver since the 1850s has refused to fund higher education.
Rauner also required in his phony budget(s) significant cuts… that’s cuts… to higher education.
These past years, the Rauner years, has been the purposeful demise of Illinois Higher Education, as Rauner wants it.
Diana and Bruce Rauner gave Puzo’s papers to the Rauner Library… at Dartmouth… for centuries.
Capiche?
- Annonin' - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:02 am:
VEEP Wilson —you are about 4 years behind with the raiding party story — started under PQ and grew with GovJunk and impasse. Hopefully not too late for recovery. Maybe we can expand the Catholic tuition tax break scholarships to colleges and universities?
Mr./Ms. OW: Reliable scouts report the AL student raiding parties take the students directly to campus so they are not exposed to say the Talladega part of the state. Warm, newish facilities, great fall footballin’ and long way from mom & dad. Seems to work.
Meanwhile IL schools are under the “leadership” of Tom Cross — no more needs to be said.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:07 am:
===Meanwhile IL schools are under the “leadership” of Tom Cross — no more needs to be said.===
Illini golf is top ranked, been national champs. Seems like a good fit.
===Reliable scouts report the AL student raiding parties take the students directly to campus so they are not exposed to say the Talladega part of the state. Warm, newish facilities, great fall footballin’ and long way from mom & dad. Seems to work.===
The SEC schools also, while recruiting footballers, tout…
“We don’t have snow for months on the ground, sunshine and warm weather”
Illini football isn’t Alabama football, but Illinois State has a great program that’s still on the uptick.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:09 am:
For some middle class families the prestigious university (that is unaffordable) just has to be overlooked in favor of a very good university that offers financial help. It’s a real jolt to realize that you’re at the very bottom of the cutoff where you’re told you can afford to pay full freight and then have to remortgage the house and alter your lifestyle because you’re just at the lower limit of that cutoff. This is the middle class dilemma. So you look for some help in the way of schools that offer some $. If some don’t understand that then they are way way above the cutoff point I’m talking about and have no clue.
- Henry Francis - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:13 am:
We’ve have heard so much anectdodal noise about people moving out of Illinois, or businesses leaving Illinois. And the magnitude and cause of each can be debated.
But this brain drain of students leaving Illinois really isn’t debatable. And the primary cause is clearly lack (or severe reduction) of funding for the past 3 years.
This is inexcusable.
And it becomes even more offensive when you take into account Bruce and Di having $600k for an impulse buy of some dusty papers that will be donated to support a university out of state with a $4.5 billion endowment.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:14 am:
I think it’s great that other states are paying to educate our kids. Many flock to Chicago upon graduation.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:15 am:
Chicago is experiencing a brain GAIN.
- Leigh John-Ella - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:15 am:
– This problem didn’t start with Rauner, it’s just that he hasn’t addressed it. –
Because he ran as the anti-government candidate. He’s not interested in making government better. He’s only interested in making it smaller. And he would have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for those meddling lawmakers taking charge and passing a budget that kept EIU, WIU, SIU and others open.
Face it, the governor’s higher ed interests begin and end with the Puzo papers and Dartmouth.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:16 am:
Look at recent census estimates. The highly educated are pouring into the city.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:20 am:
===I think it’s great that other states are paying to educate our kids. Many flock to Chicago upon graduation.===
… and yet, these corporation moves cite higher education investment to sites looking to bid.
Otherwise… Rauner and Rahm wouldn’t have pushed that lil project in the city, partnering with, you guessed it, Higher Education institutions.
Your short-sidedness is what Rauner hopes people want.
It’s not good for Illinois to lose Illinois students and have weak higher ed.
- Leigh John-Ella - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:21 am:
Anonymous,
Agreed. That’s all great for Chicago. But the Republicans in Charleston/Mattoon and Carbondale and Macomb might want to wake up and realize the governor they elected and their local Reps and Sens back is killing their communities. Those schools are the economy there.
And last I checked, Bruce Rauner wasn’t exactly touting himself as the “Pro-Chicago” guy.
- City Zen - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:28 am:
==The tier 2 pensions do not help attract or retain faculty at U of I, or any other public college or university in Illinois.==
Texas’ pension system is on Tier 6. Alabama has 2 tiers.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:30 am:
Um, downstate has virtually nothing to attract highly educated people. I guess it’s great to have a middling university and then see the graduates leave. Just like Alabama.
- Last Bull Moose - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:32 am:
Smart universities play the long game. That smart scholarship student may someday endow o professors chair, set up a scholarship to pay it forward, or even give a building.
- Pot calling kettle - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:33 am:
The bleeding goes back to Gov. Ryan. It has been facilitated by the General Assembly. They began to pull back funding (direct and financial aid), then tried to limit tuition increases. Gov. Rauner came in and decided to spike the ball. Rauner hoped to close at least two and maybe four of the state universities (EIU, WIU, Chicago State and NEIU for those keeping score). This was no secret.
At the same time. We get gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over the outmigration of residents…when you look at the numbers, a significant chunk of those outmigrants are folks leaving to pursue higher ed.
Gov. Rauner blames labor laws and workers comp costs for the loss of jobs and the difficulty of attracting industry, but growth is in tech. Tech is not nearly as affected by those issues as they are by the need for a pool of qualified (educated) applicants. When tech looks at Illinois, they are seeing that future educated workforce leaving the state to pursue their education. Tech industries are following those students. Tech workers prefer to live someplace where there kids can stay nearby when they matriculate into higher ed. With Illinois starving higher ed, how attractive are we to tech?
Higher Ed is an investment in the future of the state as a whole and in the regions where we have placed our universities. We can choose to build up or we can choose to shut down. Rauner has decided to shut down. Look at his proposed higher ed budget. No money for growth.
The GA needs to wake up. Members from EIU, WIU, SIUC, NIU, ISU: How about standing up for your regions’ best hope for growth? A well-funded university produces research which fosters start-ups (which like low-cost locations) which provide jobs.
More direct state support, fully funded MAP, re-creation of the Illinois State Scholarship (merit-based aid). It’s not that difficult to see what other states are doing and what Illinois could do.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:38 am:
Anyone know why the funding was “pulled” back? It haven’t seen any spending cuts at the state level. We are still seeing increased government spending. Where does all the money go?
- Pot calling kettle - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:41 am:
==I think it’s great that other states are paying to educate our kids. Many flock to Chicago upon graduation. ==
If only it were that simple, we miss out on the other part of higher ed: the research base and the industries those researchers feed. We also take away the opportunities for folks who cannot afford to leave the state.
==Chicago is experiencing a brain GAIN. ==
Imagine what it could be if we beefed up Higher Ed.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:42 am:
===Um, downstate has virtually nothing to attract highly educated people. I guess it’s great to have a middling university and then see the graduates leave. Just like Alabama.===
Alabama is the flagship university, and it seems Tuscaloosa is growing in importance, as Mercedes Benz has a plant there now, and “Rocket City” (Huntsville) is attracting more highly educated folks, like engineers.
Alabama ain’t a Paradise on Earth, but corporations and advanced technology groups like NASA see that the investments Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Ole Miss, Mississippi State are making, and locating in… South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee… and people are going there too.
It snowballs. It’s the whole package.
Illinois Higher Ed must compete, not be dismantled… purposely.
- Former Hillrod - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:46 am:
Southeast Missouri State in Cape Giradeau is eating SIU-C’s lunch. That school aggressively courts Illinois students and is growing.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:47 am:
EIU has a research base? WIU?
- Chris Widger - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:47 am:
==Diana and Bruce Rauner gave Puzo’s papers to the Rauner Library… at Dartmouth… for centuries.==
That’s a crazy standard. Now the Rauners have to give Puzo’s papers to UIUC, even though Puzo went to Dartmouth?
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:48 am:
OW, tell that to the public workers.
- Macbeth - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:48 am:
The fact that Rauner has campaigned 24/7 during his tenure — and essentially ignored higher-ed — makes all this especially heartbreaking.
I’m guessing one of the main reasons Amazon will pass on Illinois will be how the impasse has impacted higher ed in and around Chicago and Urbana.
Amazon won’t mention the impasse, but they’ll probably indicate that, yeah, the young talent pool here has diminished quite a bit over the past several years.
This is squarely on Rauner’s shoulders. Leveraging higher-ed and social services in order to … well, what? Get some USSC court right-to-work decision passed? I dunno.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:48 am:
Again, no one is staying in Cape Giradeau upon graduating.
- Steve - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:49 am:
Irony alert: Texas a state that doesn’t have a state income tax has enough money to lure faculty away…
- Trapped in the ‘burbs - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:49 am:
My son graduates in June from a Pac12 school that gave him enough money to make it cheaper than U of I. Neither of my kids even looked at a state school, in Illinois. Whatever issues our state schools faced before Rauner were exacerbated under Governor chaos. This is part of his legacy of destruction. But hey, he keeps giving huge to Dartmouth, his Alma mater. I don’t understand why he wants to run for another term when he demonstrates such disdain for so many Illinois citizens and institutions.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:50 am:
“I’m guessing one of the main reasons Amazon will pass on Illinois will be how the impasse has impacted higher ed in and around Chicago and Urbana.”
One of the silliest things I’ve read. Chicago has NW, UofC, Loyola, DePaul and attracts highly educated folks from around the nation. Chicago will lose because Illinois is an economic basket case due to decades of fiscal mismanagement.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:51 am:
Illinois has one of the highest state and local tax burdens in the entire nation. WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:52 am:
===…tell that to the public workers.===
They paid into the pensions.
If your only goal is drive-by sentences making no coherent sense, I’ll continue to ignore you.
Know where the pension problem is and why.
I fed you.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:55 am:
I would love the state to spend more on higher ed and lower ed, but we can’t. We have a shrinking population due to our onerous tax burden.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 11:58 am:
===Higher Ed is an investment in the future of the state as a whole and in the regions where we have placed our universities. We can choose to build up or we can choose to shut down. Rauner has decided to shut down. Look at his proposed higher ed budget. No money for growth.===
- Pot calling kettle -
Well said, your whole comment too.
The Trubune article cited by Rich puts into focus what a commitment other universities, like an Alabama, and other states, are willing to do to make higher education more attractive in the immediate, but also make their state more attractive for bigger picture investment by pointing at… higher ed.
Rauner wants universities closed.
You fund anything at a level of zero… you want it gone.
- AnonymousOne - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:02 pm:
What’s so interesting about Rauner and his disdain for higher ed is that he himself is not only a product of a higher education but is clearly successful as a result of it. Amazing that someone as supposedly intelligent as he is would not comprehend the long term benefits of a robust higher ed system and the attraction to that from elsewhere. Most of his thinking makes no sense.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:03 pm:
=== Now the Rauners have to give Puzo’s papers to UIUC, even though Puzo went to Dartmouth? ===
He didn’t go to Dartmouth. He graduated from City College of New York https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Puzo
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:06 pm:
===That’s a crazy standard. Now the Rauners have to give Puzo’s papers to UIUC…===
Nuance is lost on ya…
Higher education is important to the RaunerS… Rauner Dormitory, Rauner Library, donating to Dartmouth…
… they care about Higher Education… just not Illinois, or Illinois Higher Ed.
The RaunerS are thrilled… “for centuries”….
You close universities… that’s for centuries too.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:07 pm:
When did the state start cutting spending on higher ed?
- Annonin' - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:08 pm:
Too bad the Tribbies did not get into askin’
the IL kids in AL how the got there and why…maybe next time.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:10 pm:
===When did the state start cutting spending on higher ed?===
Rod’s first budget. He wanted to force the universities to cut bureaucracy. Didn’t work. Tuition went up and bureaucracy size exploded.
- Signal and Noise - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:12 pm:
The lack of presidential leadership at every single University in the Illinois system, and most notably Kileen, has been as astounding as it is depressing. Rauner’s clan has gleefully done near-fatal damage to the public university system and the response from the academic leaders was to curl up into a ball and say “please don’t hurt us”. Higher Ed has been a rudderless ship for 3 years counting. The only question left is how much can be rebuilt and can we find the talent level necessary to rebuild it.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:14 pm:
A good way to start would be to close either WIU or EIU. There is simply no demand for these types of schools.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:15 pm:
Thanks Rich. Do you know why bureaucracy exploded?
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:16 pm:
Just looked it up. Alabama is ranked #39 in state and local tax burden. Illinois is #5, above Minnesota.
- Former Hillrod - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:17 pm:
@ Ron
Most Illinois students at SEMO probably aren’t staying in Cape Girardeau, but I know that some are staying in Missouri as teachers, nurses and law students.
- Roman - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:17 pm:
Lots of dynamics at play here. Some of it is driven simply by supply-and-demand.
U of Alabama decided they wanted to drastically grow their enrollment several years ago (It’s roughly doubled in two decades) and didn’t have enough college-ready high school graduates in-state. So they’ve aggressively recruited out-of-state students and offered financial incentives. U of I has seen natural, albeit slower, enrollment growth over that same time frame. Some of it is fueled by foreign students paying a premium to attend their highly regarded engineering and business schools. So they’re haven’t seen the need to offer steep tuition discounts to attract students like Alabama has.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:17 pm:
- Annonin’ -
From the Tribune link…
===“I’m paying less here than I would at a lot of in-state schools at home,” said Jessica Tobin, an Alabama freshman from Oak Lawn. “That’s something I hear across the board from kids from home.”===
Students understand. The cost is a factor and reason. It’s not just the “parents/guardians”
Then again, when the RaunerS can donate $600+K worth of papers to be preserved for “centuries”… and Bruce sees no fault in not, at the minimum, funding state universities for a full fiscal year with his signature, students know… they see the price tags.
- wordslinger - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:18 pm:
–WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO?–
Perhaps if you had paid attention in school you could have developed the critical thinking skills to find that information.
It’s really very easy.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:21 pm:
===A good way to start would be to close either WIU or EIU. There is simply no demand for these types of schools.===
Then Rauner should just close the schools, publicly, instead of passively starving them out of existence.
Golly, I wonder why Rauner won’t just run on that?
It’s a puzzle. Can’t figure it out.
- Telly - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:25 pm:
== Chicago will lose (Amazon) because Illinois is an economic basket case ==
Nah. Chicago and 16 other finalists will lose because they’re not in the D.C. Beltway, close to Bezos’ new mansion and in a position to influence Washington’s regulatory environment.
- City Zen - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:35 pm:
==I’m guessing one of the main reasons Amazon will pass on Illinois will be how the impasse has impacted higher ed in and around Chicago and Urbana.==
Right, and Amazon is considering Boston because of UMass, not Harvard and MIT.
- Ole General - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:36 pm:
So because Rauner won’t pass a budget that is by definition, not balanced.
That means he is actively trying to destroy Illinois higher-ed. Do I understand this conspiracy theory correctly?
Rauner has stated a desire to narrow the focus of the state universities, something other states are proposing. But I didn’t realize he is actively trying to close down every single state university.
Wowzers, I wonder what Politifact would rate that? False or Pants-on-Fire.
I might submit it.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:39 pm:
===So because Rauner won’t pass a budget that is by definition, not balanced.
That means he is actively trying to destroy Illinois higher-ed. Do I understand this conspiracy theory correctly?===
LOL
Rauner can’t claim in one breath his veto to stop the “Madigan Tax” is one thing… and then say a veto of budgets mean nothing too… or that a veto isn’t “anything of a statement”
A veto is owned by Rauner.
Rauner doesn’t want a Tax Increase.
Rauner doesn’t want to fund higher ed.
Please, do keep up.
- OneMan - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:40 pm:
So OneSon and I visited two schools over Spring Break this year, U of Nebraska and U of Kansas (OneDaughter goes to Kansas). OneSon has an ACT score of over 30, at both schools, you get you in-state tuition, so 10,000 at Kansas and 9,000. At Nebraska get a 32 there is a decent shot you can get either 50% in-state tuition or 0% in-state tuition.
He wants to study engineering, but wait you say U of I has an awesome engineering program. That is true.
Nebraska pointed out they have relatively few graduate students in Engineering so undergraduates get involved in research since they require all of their faculty members to do research.
When we started with the large tour group (40 people) at Nebraska almost half were from Illinois.
At Kansas, most of their engineering buildings are less than 5 years old. They are an AAU one of only 34 public institutions that are. He had a dean show him around various labs after talking with him for 20 minutes. We visited the lab with the sub-sonic wind tunnel and I asked ‘what does an undergrad have to do use the wind tunnel’, remembering being told at U of I you might get to use it once as an undergrad, he said ‘just ask Bob around the corner to set it up for you’. Also found out their engineering department is funded by commercialization revenue, research money and grants they don’t get any tuition revenue.
Suffice to say, Kansas has a much bigger appeal to my son (and me) than U of I does at this point. Both from a cost standpoint and program standpoint.
- wordslinger - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:41 pm:
–Rauner has stated a desire to narrow the focus of the state universities, –
That’s some leadership.
–I might submit it.–
Please do. Or it’s just talk. Like Rauner.
- City Zen - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:41 pm:
==A good way to start would be to close either WIU or EIU.==
Better yet…
Iowa State at Macomb
Indiana University Purdue University Charleston
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:42 pm:
so enlighten me word, where does our the taxes in the 5th highest tax burdened state go?
- Sugar Corn - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:43 pm:
Signal and noise,
you’ve got it right. The presidents, chancellors and boards of illinois’ public universities have proven to be a bunch of mealy-mouthed wimps when it comes to standing up to a governor apparently hellbent on weakening public higher ed.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:44 pm:
UofI has exactly 0 problem attracting top engineering students.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:46 pm:
States with brain drains are IA, WI and IN. There are few jobs in those states for the well educated. Where do grads from those state schools tend to go? Chicago.
- Smitty Irving - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:48 pm:
Steve -
Irony Alert - you ARE aware annually the University of Texas receives about half a billion dollars from oil wells UT owns, right? https://www.texastribune.org/2017/08/21/ut-system-oil-money-gusher-its-administration-and-trickle-students/
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:48 pm:
===UofI has exactly 0 problem attracting top engineering students.===
(Sigh)
What merit scholarships are in-state students getting to attend to keep them here?
You get accepted at UIUC… full tuition.
Same credentials… Iowa State…. merit scholarship…
Same as schools like Alabama.
“If you want the student debt, maybe Illinois should be your choice. We’re offering you a full scholarship.”
Those are Illinois kids leaving…
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:49 pm:
How about Alabama? Ole Miss? MI and MSU? How about IU? How about Mizzou?
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:50 pm:
OW, who cares? UOFI’s school of engineering clearly doesn’t need to give a dime as it is always filled with top notch students.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:51 pm:
UofI has a better engineering program than all those others.
- Blue dog dem - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:51 pm:
Ron, you are pulling some things out of thin air.
Had Biss won, this would have been a mute point. Seems he promised free college.
- Ole General - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:52 pm:
- A veto is owned by Rauner.
Rauner doesn’t want a Tax Increase.
Rauner doesn’t want to fund higher ed. -
I’m not debating you on this. What I don’t understand is the logical jump from disagreeing over specific budget items and outright trying to destroy higher-ed.
That’s analogous to me disagreeing with my wife where to go for dinner, therefore I don’t love her anymore because I prefer sushi over pizza.
It’s convoluted and outright hysterics, frankly, and the only place I’ve seen it referenced is on this site from a handful of posters.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:53 pm:
Examples BDD?
- Ole General - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:55 pm:
Again, in a post that didn’t make it past moderation.
UoI and ISU are growing. They aren’t having a difficult time attracting students. OW rambling is incoherent and not supported by the raw student totals.
The universities suffering are EIU, WIU, NIU and SIUC. Why are we talking about Alabama vs UoI?
This is nonsensical blabbering.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:55 pm:
===who cares?===
It appears some legislators, families, students…
===school of engineering clearly doesn’t need to give a dime as it is always filled with top notch students.===
From Illinois?
See… that’s the rub.
Our flagship is losing out on quality students, and while *you* don’t care, others are taking notice.
Not once have i said “lower the standard” or weaken any college.
Understanding that the economics… students are choosing to go elsewhere and this elite hubris, snobby smugness, “I can pay, so it’s better” is forcing this stste to lose some of its best and brightest.
We aren’t, here in Illinois, doing enough to keep our best here.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 12:57 pm:
===Why are we talking about Alabama vs UoI?===
You’re saying students with a 3.5 and 30+ ACT choosing Alabama over UIUC because of merit scholarships… is not worth talking about?
Oh boy.
- Ole General - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:01 pm:
Here are facts:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-university-of-illinois-enrollment-met-20170913-story.html
https://news.illinoisstate.edu/2016/09/illinois-state-continues-record-setting-enrollment-trend/
https://news.illinoisstate.edu/2017/09/illinois-state-university-continues-strong-enrollment-trend/
The main problem isn’t UoI or ISU. It’s EIU, WIU, SIUC, NIU and the communities surround these schools.
It’s impossible to understand your focus on UoI when the school is growing. Granted, some 2nd tier students are choosing Alabama and other flagship universities over UOI and ISU.
But the problem is the 3rd and 4th tier students choosing to attend Indiana St. or SEMO or Mo St. over regional universities.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:02 pm:
===I’m not debating you on this.===
Then stop typing, LOL
===What I don’t understand is the logical jump from disagreeing over specific budget items and outright trying to destroy higher-ed.===
Funding something at a level of zero IS destroying it.
That’s how it works. You can’t say you are for something in government, then never fund it.
Rauner wants his veto for the tax increase to mean something.
It also means… Rauner refuses to fully fund higher education for full fiscal years.
That’s how vetoes work.
- Ole General - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:03 pm:
I tried to respond and it got tagged for moderation because I don’t know why?
The site seems older than me and needs a complete redesign with actual login verification and posting.
Nap time.
- wordslinger - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:03 pm:
–so enlighten me word, where does our the taxes in the 5th highest tax burdened state go?–
Have your caregiver show you the budget books before naptime. No pictures, but lots of numbers.
–Had Biss won, this would have been a mute point.–
I doubt it. He’s a pretty chatty fella.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:06 pm:
===He’s a pretty chatty fella===
lol
- Blue dog dem - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:07 pm:
….thete are few jobs in those states….just not true.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:08 pm:
yep, as suspected. word just continues to troll. not a single reference to where Illinois’s 5th highest in the nation taxes go
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:10 pm:
BDD, those states don’t have jobs for well educated folks. Those states are seeing brain drains. Illinois is gaining highly educated people, regardless of its public universities
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:10 pm:
(Sigh)
The university of Illinois lowered its standard, but still won’t give merit scholarships as other universities have.
https://bit.ly/2lUBq5G
“U. of I. hikes aid, accepts lower scores for in-state students”
… and still, with lower scores being admitted and hiking aid… poachers are taking the best and brightest… only New Jersey has more students leaving.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:14 pm:
Yet UofI is filled with top notch students.
- Amalia - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:21 pm:
yes, I’m keeping up. see if they don’t have in state kids who are that educated, they need to take kids from out of state to try and fuel their, oh, say, football program.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:22 pm:
===Yet UofI is filled with top notch students.===
Just not Illinois residents?
The issue in the article is students, who could go to school in Illinois, but are choosing the economics of going elsewhere.
The state losing its students.
If students aren’t getting monies to go to UIUC…
… why look at Eastern, Western, any other school outside UIUC.
It’s interconnected. There’s a reason there’s a flagship school setting the table and time for the other schools.
If UIUC isn’t interested in keeping quality students… other flagships will take them.
That feeds off borderline students that now go to Iowa City, not Macomb.
Flagships lead the discussions
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:24 pm:
===they need to take kids from out of state to try and fuel their, oh, say, football program===
Which one of the 3-4 females in the Trib article is playing on the Crimson Tide Football Team?
“No, no I’ll wait.”
- BC - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:31 pm:
Lots of problems with higher ed in Illinois. But U of I is much less of a worry than the directionals. Since the Kustra Commission eliminated the “system of systems” in the mid 90’s, only the U of I campuses and SIUE have seen growth. ISU has held steady. All other campuses have experienced drastic enrollment declines. Not sure what the answer is, but that’s where we should be focused.
- OneMan - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:42 pm:
Yeah, but after your first job no one cares where you went and $20,000 to $60,000 less in debt does give you some additional options in life when you are 23. Using that logic, why does any kid who can get into MIT go to U of I?
I would be fine if he wants to go to U of I even though it is going to cost me more. But the simple truth is Kansas has better facilities and undergraduate research opportunities for what wants to do.
But if the answer to these other states making it more attractive for kids from Illinois to say ‘well it’s Alabama’ or U of I is better is to be blunt, missing the bigger point and a poor response.
If we are happy with the idea that the kid who can either just barely get into U of I, or just misses or can get in within the middle of the pack is going someplace else due in part to a better cost structure from another state’s public college, that’s messed up. Even the idea that other states are willing to say ‘you can go for free tuition’ and we say ‘Well it’s U of I, we don’t need to offer you anything because we have kids from other places happy to come and pay full freight’ is problematic.
- Demoralized - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:43 pm:
==not a single reference to where Illinois’s 5th highest in the nation taxes go==
You can see all of that information. It’s really easy to find. My 4th grader could find it.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:45 pm:
“Even the idea that other states are willing to say ‘you can go for free tuition’ and we say ‘Well it’s U of I, we don’t need to offer you anything because we have kids from other places happy to come and pay full freight’ is problematic.”
I don’t find this problematic at all. Illinois has the 5th highest state and local tax burden. Those pensions are crowding out spending.
- MacombieHomie - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:47 pm:
U of I looking to increase its enrollment by 9,000 students in the next 3 years is a direct, ruthless attack on its supposed sister schools in Illinois. Those 9000 students will pretty much all come from students who currently attend ISU and the directionals. This will force ISU to lower its admissions standards a bit to make up the difference, directly impacting enrollment at the directionals. It’s a dirty, dirty game and the losers are here in Macomb, in Charleston, in DeKalb, in Edwardsville, and in Carbondale.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:48 pm:
===If we are happy with the idea that the kid who can either just barely get into U of I, or just misses or can get in within the middle of the pack is going someplace else due in part to a better cost structure from another state’s public college, that’s messed up. Even the idea that other states are willing to say ‘you can go for free tuition’ and we say ‘Well it’s U of I, we don’t need to offer you anything because we have kids from other places happy to come and pay full freight’ is problematic.===
- OneMan-,
Well said. It’s the problem of seeing there’s a crisis, not “well, we have UIUC”
===But if the answer to these other states making it more attractive for kids from Illinois to say ‘well it’s Alabama’ or U of I is better is to be blunt, missing the bigger point and a poor response.===
We should care about keeping our students AND wanting the universities.
It can be both, if the priorities ARE both.
Best to your son. Hope your daughter is enjoying Kansas.
OW
- Demoralized - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:53 pm:
==U of I looking to increase its enrollment by 9,000 students in the next 3 years is a direct, ruthless attack on its supposed sister schools in Illinois. Those 9000 students will pretty much all come from students who currently attend ISU and the directionals. ==
I don’t think so. There are plenty of students from overseas looking to come to the U of I.
- Amalia - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 1:54 pm:
no, as in get money for the university so they can keep their football program going.
- UMich - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:02 pm:
The amount of funding that UMich receives from the state of Michigan has fallen by nearly 50% in 20 years yet the university has no problem attracting the state’s best students (and half the student body is out of state). The state of Michigan’s other public universities are also doing fine.
The ILGA stopped caring about higher ed once they couldn’t snap their fingers to get dullards in their districts admitted to UIUC without issue. People just need to wait for the kleptocratic process to play out in Illinois and then things will be fine.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:02 pm:
Demoralized,
Foreign students, especially from the Middle East and South Asia are experiencing never-before-seen difficulties getting US student visas right now. And international enrollments are only going to get worse when Chinese student visas are shut down by our fearless president.
These students won’t be coming from abroad. They will be Illinois kids.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:05 pm:
Texas Sales Tax. While Texas’s statewide sales tax rate is a relatively moderate 6.25%, total sales taxes (including county and city taxes) of up to 8.25% are allowed, and in most major cities this limit is reached.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:05 pm:
UMich, Talk to public university administrators north of I-69. They will tell you a different story about doing ‘just fine’.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:11 pm:
===And international enrollments are only going to get worse when Chinese student visas are shut down by our fearless president.
These students won’t be coming from abroad. They will be Illinois kids.===
Speculative.
We have no idea who those 9,000 students will be.
I do know, students leaving for financials won’t be excited that the enrollment opportunity is better, the student loans are the same.
===The ILGA stopped caring about higher ed once they couldn’t snap their fingers to get dullards in their districts admitted to UIUC without issue. People just need to wait for the kleptocratic process to play out in Illinois and then things will be fine.===
lol. Rauner has refused to fully fund higher education. That’s not the past GAs, that’s happening now.
- UMich - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:12 pm:
Fair point @2:05. But MSU’s issues are self inflicted.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:14 pm:
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:05 pm:
Texas Sales Tax. While Texas’s statewide sales tax rate is a relatively moderate 6.25%, total sales taxes (including county and city taxes) of up to 8.25% are allowed, and in most major cities this limit is reached.”
Illinois sales tax is 6.25% too. Local governments can increase it though. What’s your point?
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:15 pm:
The amount of funding that UMich receives from the state of Michigan has fallen by nearly 50% in 20 years yet the university has no problem attracting the state’s best students (and half the student body is out of state). The state of Michigan’s other public universities are also doing fine.”
Yep. Doesn’t sound like a problem to me.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 2:42 pm:
@UMich: I wasn’t referring to MSU.. more to SVSU, CMU, Ferris, LSSU, NMU, and to an extent, Tech. Their problems look a whole lot like the Illinois problems outside of U/C and Normal.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 3:15 pm:
Dismanteling all public sponsored Education, at all levels, is Rauner game plan.
- Annonin' - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 3:20 pm:
Posted this earlier, must have rolled in the TIDE
WSJ listing of Universities
UIUC #48
UI-C #111
SIU #338
Auburn #306
AL #464
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 3:28 pm:
Oh - Annonin’ -
UIUC tuition, in-state - $14,000 x 4 = $56,000
Alabama tuition $0 x 4 = $0
Hmm.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 3:39 pm:
UofI has little problem filling up with top students. Of course some kids go to Alabama over SIU for free.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 3:39 pm:
OW, where is the state gonna find the money for free tuition?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 3:42 pm:
===…where is the state gonna find the money for free tuition?===
Considering it’s merit based, and targeting those that are being poached… you should read the article on how a school and other universities are recalling that money.
Of course, if you read the article, you would’ve known.
- bg - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 3:45 pm:
I have three university educated daughters that I encouraged not to stay in Illinois–I’m here because my house is paid for.
- Ron - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 4:17 pm:
We just hired a recent grad from Cornell, she is from DC. Also hired a guy from NY that is a VA Tech grad.
- CapnCrunch - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 4:25 pm:
“What merit scholarships are in-state students getting to..to keep them here?”
It appears that these out of state schools are offering scholarships to smart middle class Illinois kids. What chance does one of those girls in the Tribune article have at receiving full tuition for four years at a university having as a goal the reduction of the graduation rate gap between racially underrepresented and white students?
- Filmmaker prof - Friday, Apr 6, 18 @ 4:37 pm:
I would love to see the stats about how many of these Illinois students who are poached by the U of Alabama stay in Alabama after graduation. I’ll bet many of them take their free college education and come back to Illinois.