94 Comments - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:35 am: This is why you cannot cut property taxes without replacing the lost revenue via an increase in state taxes. The state has an obligation to public education and the state is failing miserably. - Illinois Resident - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:36 am: Rauner never showed any leadership on this. The obvious first steps are a progressive income tax and cannabis legalization which Rauner was never in support of. State residents felt otherwise and voted him out. - RNUG - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:36 am: Yep. To state the obvious, if you can’t cut school district expenses, the only way to lower local residential property taxes is to either increase local commercial property taxes or increase statewide taxes of one kind or another. - City Zen - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:38 am: If they hike income taxes without a corresponding drop in property taxes, we’ll be in a world of hurt. It’s all about the overall tax burden. I don’t think having taxpayers fork over a few extra thousand dollars in state income taxes and lowering their property taxes a few hundred dollars is going to make their Illinois home any more affordable. - Nick Name - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:41 am: Exactly. This is why Illinois needs progressive tax brackets with higher income tax rates for higher income earners. It’s criminal that the brunt of the burden of school funding is placed on school districts and property taxes. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:45 am: If you ask the IPI and Ted Dabrowsky Illinois spends too much on education. You can always count on the IPI to peddle such nonsense. - Don't Tax Me Bro - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:46 am: Illinois is #14th in per pupil education spending ($14,000). Many of the top states have high costs of living state-wide (Chicago is high-cost, most of the rest of the state is not). But there will never be a tax swap… there will be at best marginal reduction in property taxes and we’re just gonna get stuck with higher income taxes for nominal to no results in actual educational achievement. See: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:48 am: ==for nominal to no results in actual educational achievement.== Is that you IPI? - Illinois Resident - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:50 am: Don’t tax me bro - It depends on the progressive tax brackets. I’m not concerned about millionaires and Billionaires making out. They should pay more. - NoGifts - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:54 am: The point is that it doesn’t cost less to fund schools in poor districts than it does in wealthier ones, and the property tax dedicated to schools is irrespective of ability to pay. Shifting from property taxes to income taxes results in people with more income paying more towards schools. Most would see this as a fairer system that could provide more equal opportunities to kids in poor districts. - City Zen - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:58 am: ==Illinois is #14th in per pupil education spending== That’s an excellent and very often forgotten point. We spend more per pupil than some of the most progressive states in the union (MN, CA, OR). - SAP - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:58 am: Maybe Jim Edgar was onto something when he ripped of Dawn Clark Netsch’s idea on the education tax swap. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:58 am: Constitution of the State of Illinois ARTICLE X: The State has the primary responsibility for financing the system of public education. http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con10.htm So the state is not complying with its actual constitution? - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:06 pm: ===So the state is not complying=== Did you just get here? Try using the Google. - OneMan - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:07 pm: The point is that it doesn’t cost less to fund schools in poor districts than it does in wealthier ones You can demonstrate it, in fact, costs more in poor districts. In the elementary district I grew up in SD 149 in Dolton the average salary for teachers is 92K, 144K for administrators with a 141:1 ratio. In the HS district I attended it is 79K for teachers, 108K for administrators with a 103:1 ratio The district I live in now (a consolidated district) the average teacher makes 65K a year. The average administrator makes 83K with a 171:1 ratio. So if the state were to increase local funding (which I don’t have an issue with), should the state dictate more how it is spent? - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:08 pm: In lower middle class communities, especially in Cook County, real estate taxes are becoming toxic. Not surprisingly, lots of taxes are not getting paid and the properties are abandoned to the tax auction. Many times no one bids on these properties. - frustrated GOP - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:15 pm: One, the State needs to pay onetime, can you imagine our educational system had local schools paid bills like the State did the last 8 years? yes, 200 years of a tax system based on an agricultural economy might be a little too long, and its time to figure out a format that better pays for services. One last thing, Federal money is based on need and is in addition to state and local. IF you have a lot, you have a lot of need. The better off we are the less we get. It really comes down to State versus local funding. I would add, most reports do not add in the State pension payments, and that needs to be taken into account as well. Both when looking at how much go to a local district, but also the overall funding. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:16 pm: Rauner wanted to do “local control” of taxes to slash workers and unions and be the new right wing darling of the Midwest. The new state government looks like the best opportunity to right-size the state income tax code and get more revenue from the highest incomes to pay for schools. Why should the rest of us shoulder a bigger tax burden when people like Rauner have been paying low state income taxes for decades? Even most neighbor states who are Republican/purple states have had higher marginal income tax rates than us, for decades. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:18 pm: –If they hike income taxes without a corresponding drop in property taxes, we’ll be in a world of hurt.– Who’s property taxes — mine? My schools are more than 90% funded by property taxes. Are you going to raise income taxes on folks in Peoria, Centralia, Danville, etc., to shovel state money and reduce property taxes in Oak Park, Hinsdale, Winnetka, etc? This is an extraordinarily complex issue, crossing communities with a wide range of wealth and school spending. Perhaps a local option income tax for schools should be thrown in the mix. I’m sure seniors still in their homes would be willing to look at that. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:20 pm: The state controls much of the curriculum and dictates services that must be provided in schools but does so with money not often attached. When it comes to Education, this state sometimes has third world values. - NeverPoliticallyCorrect - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:21 pm: OK, time to correct some things. the percentages in the story are averages. Lower EAV areas receive significantly more state funding, for example, District 89 which includes Maywood, Broadview and Melrose Park gets 54% of it’s funding from the state. The real problem most poorer districts face is an unrelenting stream of unfunded state mandates that don’t contribute to educational outcomes. It just isn’t as simple as money. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:22 pm: Your per pupil figure hides huge variation between local districts. Besides, the point isn’t to spend more statewide, but to cut property taxes and reduce the local inequality. - Mama - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:26 pm: “If they hike income taxes without a corresponding drop in property taxes, we’ll be in a world of hurt. It’s all about the overall tax burden.” Income tax and property tax are not interrelated. It appears your self interest in your pocketbook is more important than the needs of educating our children. The future of our communities, our state and our country all depend on well educated children. - Hamlet's Ghost - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:28 pm: It’s not clear whether the CA numbers being discussed in comments include all school funding or only the Prop 98 school funding, which would be state aid. This link suggests annual per pupil spending in CA will exceed $16,000 in the upcoming year. https://medium.com/@DavidGCrane/ca-to-spend-16-000-per-pupil-in-2018-19-dca698d42bb3 School funding is notoriously tangled and in CA per pupil funding has been low for years but it’s catching up fast. 2011 v 2015 v 2019 might be very different numbers. But for the IL the story remains the same - until the State of IL increases state aid, property taxes will remain high. - Mama - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:29 pm: - City Zen - If you want lower property taxes, buy a smaller house or move to a community with lower property tax rates. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:30 pm: here is a thought—maybe don’t pay superintendants outrageous salaries and benefits, for starters. merge school districts, it is absurd for the many small schools to exist. when 58%-63% of an ever increasing real estate tax bill goes to school districts, something is way wrong. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:31 pm: ===when 58%-63% of an ever increasing real estate tax bill goes to school districts, something is way wrong=== Yes, that’s true. But cutting administration salaries won’t do much. The state used to fund schools at or near 50 percent. It started sliding under Thompson. - A 400lb. Guy on a bed - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:33 pm: If you think that your property taxes are too high then don’t complain when art, music, sports & p.e. in schools and your police and fire protection and public works are cut. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:34 pm: Illinois has the 5th largest economy in the US. That is important too. And that is not an average. Talking about rankings is fun, right? Our district spends $5,700 per pupil and we are on of the higher ones in the area. If you go to the Illinois School Report Card you can see for yourself the massive disparity in per pupil spending that is happening in Illinois. There are so many co traditions that it is mind boggling. A dollar for dollar swap won’t happen and shouldn’t. But going back to the Blago years th state has pushed expenses into districts for political wins. When the state adds to homestead exemptions that has no impact on state coffers but can send schools scrambling. This issue has grown for years now. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:34 pm: Not sure where ISBE is getting these numbers on the IIRC but they’re in conflict with their own 2017 annual report. According to that report, approved in January 2018 State support is 35.6% I’d speculate the report card includes pensions & the IIRC is related to actual district expenditures. - RNUG - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:41 pm: == So the state is not complying with its actual constitution? == Maybe, maybe not. Most the comparisons do not include the State pension contribution to TRS. Add that in and you are probably around 50% on average. But, as noted by others, the average doesn’t really reflect what happens in each district. Regardless, the Illinois courts have not seen fit to override the GA’s decisions on State level school funding. - Dupage Bard - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:45 pm: Property taxes in DuPage are ridiculous. I’m not going to cry at all when I hear folks in Chicago just starting to complain about high property taxes. For decades they have had it easy when it comes to that. I also am sick of hearing downstate complain when the amount of money DuPage sends out compared to what we get back is incredibly low. 1/4 acre lots in DuPage pay a much higher rate than farmland downstate and yet many of those counties receive 3:1 in state funding. How much longer does the State keep taking from DuPage County to pay the bills for the rest of the state? If you look at the schools most received nominal amounts on the new formula. Many DuPage schools budgets are only 10% state revenue the rest from property taxes. Here’s the deal give DuPage 80% of what it pays into the State via all revenue streams. Right now we’re at 34%. That revenue will allow us to spend the money into our schools and lower our property taxes. Rant over - City Zen - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:48 pm: ==If you want lower property taxes, buy a smaller house or move to a community with lower property tax rates.== Thank you for that insightful recommendation, Ms. Keynes. Did you know pork bellies are used to make bacon, which you might find in a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich? - Responsa - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:50 pm: ==If you want lower property taxes, buy a smaller house or move to a community with lower property tax rates.== Really? Move? Uproot your family? That’s your solution? - anon2 - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:53 pm: The state Supreme Court has ruled that the “primary responsibility for funding” clause is aspirational, not mandatory. At the Con-Con in 1969-70, a mandatory clause was voted down. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 12:53 pm: You do have to wonder how the 5th largest economy in the US can’t adequately fund Education, can’t scrounge up money for pensions, cries poor………Where is the money going? - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:01 pm: =Relly? Move?= It beats complaining. - Stuntman Bob's Brother - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:12 pm: ==Really? Move? Uproot your family? That’s your solution?== Mama, once they’ve got the truck loaded, the nearest state border is less than 100 miles from any point in the state. You may not want to encourage this, it may not produce the results you desire. Cap real estate taxes at 1.5% of actual home values. Since the price per square foot is higher in Winnetka than Peoria, there is a built-in equalization factor between regions. Make up the difference in revenue with a progressive income tax, plus an additional 3 Billion to pay for JB’s wish list, and another billion to pay down the debt. Tax retirement income above $40K. Problem solved. The only thing to debate is, where will the “break point” be, the income level above which someone will pay more income taxes than they do under the current system? - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:17 pm: Get a cheaper house. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:23 pm: And let’s not forget one of the biggest expenses in the ISBE annual outlay if the State portion for TRS funding. Not much can be done about pensions BUT the school districts would be much better able to deal with outdated buildings if the Legislature exempted them from prevailing wage requirements. But we also know that is unlikely as well. Trading lower property taxes for higher income taxes is simply robbing Peter to pay Paul. Given the choice I for one prefer higher real estate taxes. It’s everyones choice as to how an expensive house you choose to buy - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:26 pm: ===much better able to deal with outdated buildings if the Legislature exempted them from prevailing wage requirements=== Shoddy work isn’t cheaper. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:31 pm: Rich- why would you automatically assume non- union contractors perform shoddy work. That is approaching slander. One huge issue deals with job categories. Explain why you need to pay IBEW rates to relamp schools with more economical lighting. It really isn’t electrician work but try convincing the IL Dept of Labor. Changing light bulbs shouldn’t require electricians. The examples of this kind of abuse are legion. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:35 pm: ===Explain why you need to pay IBEW rates to relamp schools with more economical lighting. It really isn’t electrician work but try convincing the IL Dept of Labor. Changing light bulbs shouldn’t require electricians. The examples of this kind of abuse are legion.=== Prevailing wage is an understanding that quality trade work will be done for the wage the work is priced. Republicans who turn their back on the trades will find themselves in Illinois no better off than Rauner. It’s amazing how alleged Republicans are about reducing wages. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:41 pm: ===why would you automatically assume non- union contractors perform shoddy work=== I didn’t say that at all. Once you dump prevailing wage, then every contractor will compete on wage costs to reduce their bids. Then you’ll get the most fly-by-night firms winning contracts. This happens a lot. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:42 pm: Oswego- not sure you really appreciate what prevailing wage legislation does. First it isn’t just waged- if a non union contractor wants to bid on a project- matching the hourly rate is just the first step. The non- union employer might provide an exemplary benefits program But since its not a union plan- IDOL imposed a dollar amount to equate to the full cost of the local union contract’s benefit provisions. The other rediculous component is the job classifications. School districts would be far better served being exempted to the advantage of their residents - foster brooks - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 1:47 pm: get on your county GIS and look at all the exemptions, if someone pays less you will pay more. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:01 pm: If you really want to see just how out of wack our RE taxes are- look each week in the NYT business section. On the last page they show what you can buy for X dollars in three localities. The listings include the annual property tax bills. The amount Illinois residents pay vs every other jurisdiction other then NJ is staggering and yes we are even higher then NJ. Often times the comparison shows our tax rates to be Four times as much - City Zen - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:15 pm: Sue, it’s not so much the prevailing wage hourly rate, it’s the costs on top of that. The prevailing wage for an electrician in Cook County is $47/hr, but their pension cost is $16/hr. 35% of wages towards retirement seems pretty excessive. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:17 pm: ===not sure you really appreciate what prevailing wage legislation does.=== I do understand. I also understand union trade labor isn’t the reason schools are in trouble. Otherwise, y’all would have all that money measured. ===The non- union employer might provide an exemplary benefits program But since its not a union plan- IDOL imposed a dollar amount to equate to the full cost of the local union contract’s benefit provisions. The other rediculous component is the job classifications. School districts would be far better served being exempted to the advantage of their residents=== What if the union workers and union contractors are… residents too. Cheaper isn’t always better, if that were the case all things cheaper would be considered best, and as far as safety goes, a person puts up a shingle, calls themselves a carpenter, that doesn’t mean the work is sound. You want people to make less, that’s all it comes down to, as you see no value in the trades. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:17 pm: “it is absurd for the many small schools to exist.” sez someone in a densely populated geographic area. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:20 pm: That is exactly what my submissions point out. If you have a non-union work force it’s virtually impossible to bid on a public project as your benefit plans won’t equate even if your programs are equal or even better. Go try and convince IDOL that your non- union company sponsored health insurance is equal. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:23 pm: ===Go try and convince IDOL that your non- union company sponsored health insurance is equal.=== I thought you’re more worried about the school districts, now it’s for the non-union contractor that gets your worry? - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:40 pm: Prevailing wage also works to keep the money in Illinois. So there is that. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:41 pm: Skeptic Agree with you. However, here in the burbs there are many elementary districts that are separate and could become unit districts, K-12. From an educational perspective, unit districts are far better than numerous elementary districts feeding in to multiple high schools. Talk about unified curriulum, continuity of that curriculum. High schools usually are resistant to that idea. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:45 pm: Sorry JS- but prevailing wage laws is just one more way our legislators cater to their union financial masters to the detriment of taxpayers. Even JB was astute enough to use non- union contractors when he had work done on his mansion in Chicago - supplied_demand - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:56 pm: What ever happened to expanding the sales tax to cover more services? Rauner was all about this in his first campaign. Matching Iowa’s structure would generate $3 billion annually according to this Crain’s article (https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180424/BLOGS10/180429967/illinois-must-expand-sales-tax-to-services). $1.5 billion to schools (aligned with lower property taxes) $1.0 billion to pensions (bond the next ten years to re-amortize) $0.5 billion to reduce deficit and bill backlog Legalize marijuana and sports betting for another $0.6 billion towards the deficit - Skeptic - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:57 pm: “Even JB was astute enough to use non- union contractors” Yeah, but he isn’t mandated to take the lowest bid. He can base his decision on quality and reputation and other intangible factors. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 2:59 pm: ===Even JB was astute enough to use non- union contractors when he had work done on his mansion in Chicago.=== Prevailing wage by public entities is the agreed wage. Pritzker’s home is not a public building. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:01 pm: Also Sue, why do you consistently advocate for taking things away from people (i.e. pensions) or paying people less? Do you get enjoyment out of sticking it to people? Get a life. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:08 pm: ==35% of wages towards retirement seems pretty excessive.== Why? Some of you complain way too much about what someone else gets. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:19 pm: Demoralized - the reason is because taxpayers are the ones being robbed - the term for your condition is willful blindness - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:29 pm: ==the term for your condition is willful blindness== My eyes are wide open. I just refuse to subscribe to your race to the bottom beliefs. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:31 pm: Derailment from the taxes issue straight into anti-union talking points and whining about wages. Didn’t that plan get squashed in November? Where are your real priorities, Sue? - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:38 pm: Demo doesn’t quite get it that he works and is paid by taxpayers. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:43 pm: ==Demo doesn’t quite get it that he works and is paid by taxpayers.== Who you work for is irrelevant. People get paid to do a job. I don’t care who is paying them. I refuse to advocate paying people less just so some of you can feel better about yourself. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:46 pm: ===…is paid by taxpayers.=== We. Are. All. Taxpayers. And I wonder why the ILGOP is failing… - City Zen - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:58 pm: ==35% of wages towards retirement seems pretty excessive.== ==Why?== What’s the normal pension cost for teachers, public safety workers, municipal laboreres, etc? ==Some of you complain way too much about what someone else gets.== Well, it is codified into law and the only options are to pay it or forego the work altogether. There is no Option C. So I’d say it is a fair question to ask. But you don’t have to dodge the question. Not knowing the answer is OK. Or maybe you do know, hence the defensiveness. Then tell me why the pension cost for an electrician is 35% of his gross wages. Educate me. I’m willing to learn. - Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 3:59 pm: “One goal should be for the state to fund public schools at a rate above 50 percent” I don’t disagree, but 50 percent of what? Should state taxpayers be on the hook for 50 percent of what New Trier spends? Keep in mind, you have some very large school districts that spend extravagantly because of the local property values and demand from local parents to offer over-the-top opportunities for their kids. That’s why people want to move into those districts, and that demand pushes property values ever higher. But it also skews the numbers. I’d hate to see what the statewide income tax rate would need to be to get Illinois’ funding formula to the place where New Trier gets half of its funding from state taxpayers. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:04 pm: ===but 50 percent of what?=== Well, we now have an adequacy formula. Maybe we could do one for that? - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:06 pm: ==Then tell me why the pension cost for an electrician is 35% of his gross wages.== I think the better question is what do you think it should be? If you think it’s high you must have an “acceptable” number in mind. I don’t particularly care, but you seem to be obsessively interested in what other people get in pensions and why they get what you consider to be too much. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:17 pm: It makes no sense to rip taxpayer savings out of middle class workers when the wealthy have been undertaxed in Illinois for decades. I know getting a progressive income tax is a very steep hill to climb, but this is the best opportunity to put it on the ballot for the voters to decide. - Steve - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:20 pm: Changing the overall education formula isn’t going to be easy. Wealthier districts doesn’t want to subsidize poorer districts via their property taxes. Can every school district be New Trier? Probably not. It’s the path dependence problem. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:22 pm: ==Changing the overall education formula isn’t going to be easy== It wasn’t. But they just did it. Now they need to fund the formula and see if it works as planned. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:31 pm: Back to why our property taxes are so high- it’s easy- Springfield imposed mandates which of course include pension costs not only for teachers but municipal employees as well. Now some geniuses want to impose a mandatory minimum salary for teachers which for many down state districts will create massive property tax increases. Sales taxes at the highest level in the country along with the highest property taxes and yes principally to fund public sector employment along with benefits. As we all know there isn’t much left over for other urgent needs and that explains the deplorable state of our infrastructure. Yet the likes of Demoralized and Oswego blame higher paid residents for not paying enough to fund what has been decades of unfounded give always to the government sector. What are your answers other then for us to pay more and say thank you for your service- which by the way isn’t that great - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:36 pm: ===blame higher paid residents for not paying enough to fund what has been decades of unfounded give always to the government sector.=== No. Good try. No. Prevailing wage is an agreed wage. If you think people make too much and want to reduce it, that’s on you. You should say people make too much, they should make less. ===What are your answers other then for us to pay more and say thank you for your service- which by the way isn’t that great=== So no union labor does good work? That sounds like an anti-labor feeling, not a feeling on their work or the cost, lol - Leigh John-Ella - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:36 pm: – Well, we now have an adequacy formula. Maybe we could do one for that? – Agreed. But then what’s the story? - OneMan - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:52 pm: The whole prevailing wage thing is a bit of a red herring when it comes to school costs anyway. Unless your district has done a ton of building recently (like Oswego), I would suspect your biggest cost by far in a SD is labor. How do you cut labor costs in a school district? Bigger classes and fewer classes. You may have some salary flexibility but not a ton because due to licensing and a host of other (most logical, some not) factors that give you a limited labor pool. So if you don’t have much flexibility in what you pay people, your primary lever is going to be how many people you hire to teach. Don’t see how you escape that. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:55 pm: ==blame higher paid residents for not paying enough== Who did that? I certainly didn’t. I’m arguing against your consistent petty arguments about people making too much money. Not sure how that turns into me blaming you for anything other than your pettiness. ==unfounded give always to the government sector== Were you stiffed out of a government job at some point and that’s why you are on a big anti-public employee crusade? Spite? ==which by the way isn’t that great== If I believed that were true (and I don’t), then why would you think cutting benefits and pay will make it better? If you don’t like you lot in life do something to change it rather than whine about what someone else gets. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 4:59 pm: I’ve found that those who believe that other people make too much—at their work or in their retirement (mostly attacking pension recipients)–are people who themselves have too much. It must be their guilt talking. Notice also, that those people attack middle class earners. Meanwhile multimillionaire seem to get a pass. Why quibble over 100, 200k? Unless those are your definitions of rich. If so, please open a newspaper and read about rich. - Sue - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 5:00 pm: One man - not so. Many if not most districts are operating in very old facilities all of which need ongoing work and many- major renovations. NSSD 112 just approved 84 million to renovate two middle schools and will need 75 more for its K-5. Schools are outdated and most districts would jump at exemptions of prevailing wage in order to squeeze maximum work from limited resources - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 5:01 pm: ===most districts would jump at exemptions of prevailing wage in order to squeeze maximum work from limited resources=== Cite please. Your wanting something is far less than “most” Most means over half. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 5:21 pm: Sue You believe prevailing rates are too much so you must have in mind an “acceptable” wage. So, tell us all what you believe these tradesmen should make? - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 5:24 pm: You can go to IDOL’s website and view the prevailing rates by trade for each county. Go down the list. Look at the rates. Then you set the rate you believe is acceptable. It shouldn’t be that hard for you I wouldn’t think since you evidently have a number in mind as to what a person is worth. - City Zen - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 5:26 pm: ==Wealthier districts doesn’t want to subsidize poorer districts via their property taxes. Can every school district be New Trier?== But New Trier residents are already subsidizing all the other school districts. 2.5% (or $2.4 million) of New Trier HSD 203 education budget ($93 million) comes from the state and covers nearly 4,000 students. That’s about $600 per student. Guessing that compares quite unfavorably to almost all other school districts in the state. No doubt NT goes above and beyond in educational opportunities and I agree that other school districts shouldn’t have to fund that. But is it fair to get only $600 per student from the state? Is that the baseline? - anon - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 9:14 pm: One of Illinois’ strengths is that k-12 districts rely on property taxes–steady revenue source. locally controlled and not subject to the whims of a state legislature–some of the best schools in the country are in Illinois because of the reliability of the property tax. Until the SALT tax most people wrote off 30% of their property tax bill on their federal income taxes. Get some state money to the poorer districts and leave the wealthier ones alone. - Hamlet's Ghost - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 10:33 pm: @Sue If only IL could find someone to run for governor who was committed to fighting the dastardly unions. But alas, who might that hero be? /snark - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 10:52 pm: - If you have a non-union work force it’s virtually impossible to bid on a public project as your benefit plans won’t equate even if your programs are equal or even better. - Completely ignorant. Non-union contractors bid and are awarded public contracts all the time, they just have to give their workers equivalent compensation to the prevailing rates. They only get upset that those extra dollars don’t get to go into the owners’ pockets. - Blue Dog Dem - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:34 pm: Rauner won by losing. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 5, 18 @ 11:35 pm: –But New Trier residents are already subsidizing all the other school districts.– Really? How much are they kicking in for the pensions of their 150K a year driver’s ed teachers/athletic coaches? It must be blissful to be like you and Sue, every issue is so simple. - City Zen - Thursday, Dec 6, 18 @ 8:28 am: ==Really? How much are they kicking in for the pensions of their 150K a year driver’s ed teachers/athletic coaches?== I think the better question is what do you think it should be? If you think it’s low you must have an “acceptable” number in mind. - Jerry - Thursday, Dec 6, 18 @ 8:40 am: There is no real mystery as to why property taxes are so high. Lack of state funding, period. Money to run the schools has to come from somewhere. Every time I hear a local state rep or senator talk about the “crushing” property taxes, I point out the very reason you stated. They tend to suddenly go quiet. - Demoralized - Thursday, Dec 6, 18 @ 8:45 am: ==But New Trier residents are already subsidizing all the other school districts.== No, they are not. It’s not a subsidy simply because they choose to use their substantial local resources to fund their district. That’s their choice. - Demoralized - Thursday, Dec 6, 18 @ 8:48 am: And City, while you may think you’re being cute with that comment, you aren’t. I asked a legitimate question of someone who constantly complains about what other people make or get in benefits. She must have an idea of what she thinks it should be. Your question isn’t serious. It’s mocking and it’s just sad. - Harold58 - Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 4:40 am: Illinois doesn’t have funds to spend on K12 education because it gives away $3 billion a year to foreign aid Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.