Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar » *** UPDATED x1 - Pritzker spox re-confirms “pensions are a promise” *** Rahm Emanuel jumps aboard Tribune’s pension bandwagon
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*** UPDATED x1 - Pritzker spox re-confirms “pensions are a promise” *** Rahm Emanuel jumps aboard Tribune’s pension bandwagon

Tuesday, Dec 11, 2018 - Posted by Rich Miller

* Click here for background…



…Adding… Tribune…

“Too many people look at our pension obligation through green eyeshade – in terms of dollars and cents. That is just one way to see it, but it is not the whole picture. The other is in terms of our principles and priorities,” Emanuel is expected to say in his speech. “That is why I am also for amending the clause added to the constitution in 1970 that caused the Supreme Court to shoot down our initial agreements with labor.”

Emanuel in particular will cite the 3 percent annual compounded cost of living adjustments, or COLAs, for retirees in the laborers fund.

“Think about it. What kind of progressive, sustainable system guarantees retirees 3 percent annual compounded pay increases when inflation has been at basically zero and current employees have at times been furloughed, laid off, or received one percent raises?” Emanuel said. “There is nothing progressive about 3 percent compounded raises for retirees and furloughs for workers. The mantle of progressivity must not just be more taxes on the wealthy, it must be more respect for our workers’ paychecks. I applaud our labor unions for being willing to fix this inequity in 2012 with me.”

*** UPDATE *** Jordan Abudayyeh at the Pritzker transition…

As JB has said, pensions are a promise and the state has a responsibility to live up to that promise. As governor, he will work with the General Assembly to propose a balanced budget that meets our pension obligations and puts the state on a more sustainable path forward.

       

215 Comments

  1. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:32 pm:

    So he wants to cut the pensions through constitutional amendment and raise the gas tax .20-.30?

    I’ll take US Mayor’s for $1000 Alex,
    The question is- Who has incredible courage now that they aren’t running for Mayor?


  2. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:32 pm:

    ===So he wants to cut the pensions through constitutional amendment and raise the gas tax .20-.30? ===

    Doing his best Macron impersonation. lol


  3. - Thomas Paine - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:36 pm:

    Oh for heavens sake, Rahm:

    According to the bureau of Labor statistics, if you started out making $30K as a Chicago school teacher 30 years ago, you would have to make $63K a year today to keep pace with inflation.

    It’s nice to have a $20M nest egg to fall back on so you don’t notice pesky things like the rising cost-of-living.


  4. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:40 pm:

    ==The mantle of progressivity must not just be more taxes on the wealthy, it must be more respect for our workers’ paychecks.==

    What’s next Rahm, eliminate the Social Security COLA? This man is nuts. Of course we want to tax the rich, they have all the money.


  5. - Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:41 pm:

    No one thinks you’re a progressive, Rahm.


  6. - SW - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:46 pm:

    Boo hoo

    There is that word “progressive” again. Instead of a $15 minimum wage and free college it is now progressive to take away earned pensions. It was the politicians that agreed to the pensions when it was in their best interests. Now, not so much. There isn’t a social program alive that doesn’t eventually eats its young. Now that Rahm is dome being mayor, he figures it out. Must be going back to Wall Street.


  7. - lakeside - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:47 pm:

    All these ideas to fix the city’s problems. This guy should run for mayor.


  8. - What's in a name? - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:49 pm:

    Why don’t we just tax pension benefits over $75000 per year. Would that not solve the problem?


  9. - Al - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:50 pm:

    Too bad we don’t get “progressive” on the silly 75 year parking lot contract.


  10. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:51 pm:

    And when inflation returns suddenly he will love that it’s capped at a modest three.

    As RNUG has pointed out repeatedly, any constitutional amendment would operate prospectively, so would not affect Tier One. Where is Rahm getting his legal advice? The say folks who advised withholding the Laquan video?


  11. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:52 pm:

    ===Why don’t we just tax pension benefits over $75000 per year. Would that not solve the problem?===

    Pesky constitution…


  12. - LXB - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:53 pm:

    This guy’s running to be Michael Bloomberg’s vice president.


  13. - Honeybear - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:54 pm:

    principles-
    like
    A pension is a promise.
    How about we examine the principle that loyal public servants, work hard in what are many times very difficult jobs.
    Part of their contractual benefits are a pension.
    It was a promise.
    I am so thankful for the Illinois constitution
    So that amoral politicians can’t take away what we have contributed too all these years and leave us without a means to sustain ourselves in old age. You want to break the contract we had.
    Just so you don’t have to do politically difficult things like
    funding it.
    Yeah Rahm let’s stay on this field of “principles”
    I’m gonna say I can beat you every time on this field.
    I’m so sick of the amoral privileged
    the malignantly callous
    trying to pass the buck
    shift blame
    onto the loyal public servant
    Most of whom won’t get 6 figure pensions
    But modest ones, very modest ones
    Tier II, like mine.
    If congress manages to take away social security
    I’ll be left in poverty with the pension I will receive after 20 faithful years of service.
    Which right now stands at about 22k a year.
    Each one of those pensions
    Is a public servant.
    Each one of those pensions
    has a family attached.


  14. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:54 pm:

    ==Why don’t we just tax pension benefits over $75000 per year. Would that not solve the problem?==

    Not really. Would not raise enough revenue, and the tax would not reach expats, as taxing expats’ pensions is illegal under federal law.


  15. - 61820 - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:56 pm:

    It is disingenuous to round inflation down to zero but not round down the AAI. Inflation in the 70’s averaged 7 percent, in the 80’s it was 5.5, 90’s was 3, 00s 2.6. Since 2010 it has averaged 1.7, but many economists believe mounting debts will increase inflation in coming decades. The fixed 3 percent could end up being a bargain for the state if that happens.

    If the pols think the AAI is too high, they should be willing to exchange it for the Social Security COLA, or even COLA-1 percentage point. That’s a deal that many state pensioners would find attractive, since inflation rates like we had in the 70s or 80s could quickly wipe out a pension’s value.


  16. - Commonsense in Illinois - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:56 pm:

    A bit of history here might be productive. Prior to the mid-1970s the annual increase in state pension payments was tied to the annual rate of inflation for the immediate previous year. In 1973 the rate was 6.2 percent; 1974, the average rate hit 11 percent followed in 1975 by 9.1 percent. The General Assembly knew they had to rein in the increases because the state really had no budgetary control over what inflation would be year over year. The Pension Laws Commission studied the issue, looking at annual rates of inflation for the previous 50 years. They then averaged the rates.

    The result was that the 50 year average came up to 3.7 percent, and they then rounded that number to the next lower whole number. That’s where the 3 percent annual increase came from, and it allows very accurate budgeting on a year over year basis.

    So, while critics of the 3 percent are correct that annual inflation has recently been below 3 percent, since 2000, the annual inflation rate has been 3 percent or higher on 10 occasions.


  17. - Arsenal - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:57 pm:

    “Gee, thanks Rahm.” -JB, probably.

    Although Rahm is probably the big name Democrat that it’s easiest for JB to ignore.


  18. - Tom Threat - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 3:58 pm:

    With Marie Dillon having left the Trib edit board, is Rahm auditioning for the vacancy?


  19. - jim - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:01 pm:

    come on, Rich, this isn’t the “Tribune’s pension bandwagon.” that’s just a way to stir the pot.
    it’s a problem that is killing the state that is in everyone’s best interest to address, however difficult it might be to address


  20. - A Jack - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:01 pm:

    Rahm must be trying to secure a room in Rauner’s Italian villa.


  21. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:03 pm:

    Easy to say on your way out the door, but the math is unforgiving. 3% compounded COLAs are driving the debt monster that’s eating every tax dollar available.

    What Rahm really needs isn’t an amended constitution. He needs a time machine to go back and stop previous mayors from giving away these perks in negotiations with employees over the years. You can’t blame employees for taking the deal and you can’t renege on it now. The best part? Creating a time machine might be easier than amending the constitution.


  22. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:05 pm:

    61820, first of all hello to you in Champaign, IL. Second, I would argue that current COLA formulas in use underestimate inflation for older people. Health care inflation is out of control and can easily decimate even a modest pension over time. I don’t think we need to lower the COLA for pensioners any lower.


  23. - The Dude Abides - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:06 pm:

    Rahm is a real profile in courage. I guess Rahm should lobby the US Congress to Amend Section 1 Article 10 of the US Constitution.
    As a society we expect our citizens to obey the law and act in an ethical fashion. Our politicians on the other hand think that they can disregard the law when ever it suits them, especially if it can provide cover for them in fixing problems they created.


  24. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:08 pm:

    I’m sure the $800 million TIF Lincoln Yards boondoggle for his Live Nation bro has no relationship to the City not having money for the pensions.


  25. - Three Dimensional Checkers - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:09 pm:

    Weak sauce. His listening to the chatter class on pensions is very disappointing. I guess they think this is courageous too, which is even more out of touch. I mean, didn’t we just have a Governor’s election about this? New flash: the Tribune editorial board lost.


  26. - No way I say - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:09 pm:

    Emanuel knows ten times more than RNUG. It is insane to even compare some union board commenter and Emanuel.


  27. - Dar - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:12 pm:

    ==$30K as a Chicago school teacher 30 years ago, you would have to make $63K a year today to keep pace with inflation==

    At a 3% COLA, that teacher would be making over $72k today. What’s he or she gonna do with the extra $9K? I don’t want to cut pensions unnecessarily; my mother is a Tier 1 retiree and I am a current state employee (Tier 2). But the fact is the that the automatic 3% COLA is greater than inflation, and is being bourne on the backs of current workers and taxpayers. We talk all the time about how unfair (/illegal) a cut to current pensioners would be, but never talk about how unfair the systems as constructed is. I personally believe we need to solve this problem from multiple directions, and the 3% COLA is one of them (but that’s just my 2 cents).


  28. - RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:12 pm:

    == Emanuel knows ten times more than RNUG. It is insane to even compare some union board commenter ==

    You must be new here.

    Retired Non Union Guy … aka RNUG


  29. - Norseman - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:13 pm:

    Now Rahm has time to go back to law school and learn why this will not work.

    In the meantime, read Rich’s earlier post.


  30. - Ex-morty - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:13 pm:

    I would expect nothing less of a man of Rahm’s integrity


  31. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:15 pm:

    I’d like to have cost of living adjustments rather than 3% AAI. Average out these Social Security raises……….so much less than 3%? THink not.

    Government retirees huge losers at 3% for quite a few years………while SSI recipients really cashed in. HOw’s about 2018? 2.8% Sounds greedy.

    https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/colaseries.html


  32. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:15 pm:

    A Constitutional Amendment won’t even affect Tier 2 benefits. No ex post facto law is constitutional. Rats. I guess the answer for revenue is to tax the rich after all.


  33. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:15 pm:

    “No way I say,” as far as I can tell this is your first day on the blog. RNUG has forgotten more about public pensions than Rahm will ever know. Don’t make it your last day on the blog.


  34. - Smarty - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:16 pm:

    Personally, I think the State should declare bankruptcy, just like any private sector entity would do.


  35. - Earnest - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:18 pm:

    >The mantle of progressivity must not just be more taxes on the wealthy

    Methinks people believe there’s a decent potential for a progressive income tax to be passed and they’re getting started on fighting it early.


  36. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:19 pm:

    Smarty, Rauner advocated for that and then ran away from it during the campaign when called out.


  37. - Bourbon Street - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:20 pm:

    Apparently, Rahm’s “principles and priorities” do not include adhering to contractual obligations. It’s no wonder the drafters of the U.S. and Illinois Constitutions thought it necessary to protect them.


  38. - RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:20 pm:

    Check the Federal Cost of Living Index. We are in an artificially low period. Over slnist every 10 year period since the Feds started keeping records, and overall, inflation aka CPI-U had averaged between 2.9% and 3.2% on an annual basis.

    If you want to change the fixed AAI to a uncapped snd variable CPI-U based COLA (like Social Security), I could see going along with that. Just be prepared to pay rates over 3%, possibly as high as 12% or 13% like in the early 80’s.


  39. - Norseman - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:20 pm:

    I’d put my money on RNUG’s extensive research and analysis over that of a slimy politician.


  40. - 61820 - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:21 pm:

    -Homer Simpson’s Brain- my point is simply that the AAI provides no protection against high inflation, whether it is due to healthcare costs or energy or whatever. If inflation is 6 percent, especially if it is driven by health care, state pensioners would be better off with the SSI COLA, even shaved downward a bit (like 5 percent) than they would under a fixed AAI.

    Real inflation protection is something of value that the state could give pensioners in exchange for something that would decrease pension costs. I would certainly take the COLA instead of the AAI. I would even take COLA-x, for a modestly sized x.

    Over a couple of decades of retirement, inflation risk is the biggest risk facing state pensioners. Well, that and “sovereign risk” of a state that defaults on its payments.


  41. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:23 pm:

    ==Personally, I think the State should declare bankruptcy, just like any private sector entity would do.==

    Please no, bankruptcy is a terrible option. Just ask all the pensioners in Detroit what they think of bankruptcy after taking pension haircuts.

    A better way is for the state’s employees to participate in a national pension system. I think it’s called Social Security. That would solve the problem once and for all once current pensioners all die out.


  42. - RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:24 pm:

    == Personally, I think the State should declare bankruptcy, just like any private sector entity would do. ==

    Another uninformed new guy. States are not allowed to take bankruptcy. And in Illiniouls, neither can municipalities without explicit permission by name from the Legislature.


  43. - Kayak - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:28 pm:

    JB: Pensions are a promise. (drops mic)


  44. - lakeside - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:29 pm:

    States cannot declare bankruptcy. It’s against the law.


  45. - Smarty - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:30 pm:

    Unfortunately, the State doesn’t have any money. No matter how hard Unions stomp their feet, eventually there’s not going to be the cash for retiree pensions. In 10 years, the State will probably demand a Constitutional Convention, and pensions are going to go bye-bye UNLESS deals are made to save them before hand. Reducing the COLAs are a logical first step.


  46. - lakeside - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:30 pm:

    Sorry, RNUG - took to long to post that same thought/fact. Back to you.


  47. - Andy S. - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:31 pm:

    Once again folks, let me point out that legally the 3% is an AAI (automatic annual increase) not a COLA because it is not tied to inflation in any way. More to the point, the retired folks receiving it paid for it during their working years with a specific, dedicated percentage of the employee contribution - in SURS, this is 0.5% of salary each year. No, even with investment returns this contribution probably does not fully fund the benefit increases in retirement, but that is moot, because I am receiving something specifically in return for something I paid in the past. You can perhaps change the Illinois Constitution, but given the way the AAI is structured in Illinois it is clearly and unequivocally a contractual obligation and any cuts to it for retirees will not survive a challenge under Article 1, Section 10 of the US Constitution - as the Illinois Supreme Court has already pointed out in its rulings. Moreover, that provision of the US Constitution is not subject to amendment because it is part of the Bill of Rights.


  48. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:33 pm:

    Dunno which is sillier;

    Thinking - RNUG - knows less about pensions than Rahm.

    Questioning - RNUG - on this, period.

    Both are ridiculous and only deflect by trying to go after someone who’s stellar credentials here are not disputed by anyone who’s been around here for 10 minutes.

    Also…

    With so many candidates/tribes/factions being represented to follow Rahm as mayor, Emanuel brings only himself to this as a campaign powers on. He’s a constituency of himself at the moment, tough to find allies as everyone looks beyond April 2019.


  49. - Anon E Moose - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:33 pm:

    As RNUG points out, States cannot declare bankruptcy. Try again.


  50. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:35 pm:

    Here is guessing OW’s Pension is under 75


  51. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:35 pm:

    ==Moreover, that provision of the US Constitution is not subject to amendment because it is part of the Bill of Rights. ==

    The Bill of Rights are Amendments 1-10, not Article 1 of the US Constitution.

    And, we can amend our constitution however we see fit. Nothing is set in stone. We’ve already done it 27 times.


  52. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:35 pm:

    Good for Pritzker to stand up for pensions.

    Rahm and Rauner can go back to drinking expensive wine: Neoliberal, vintage whatever.


  53. - Anon E Moose - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:36 pm:

    Andy S., I don’t know where you’re getting this information: “that provision of the US Constitution is not subject to amendment because it is part of the Bill of Rights.”

    The entire U.S. Constitution is subject to amendment. It’s just really hard to do.


  54. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:39 pm:

    Anon 4:23, many public employees do participate in Social Security. If you are knowledgeable about that program, it is designed to supply a third of retirement income. It is not a substitute for a pension.


  55. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:41 pm:

    What someone has earned today should be a promise, what someone earns next year (or out years) are not really constitutionally protected and if the courts have determined they are, voters should get say about the future.


  56. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:42 pm:

    ===What someone has earned today should be a promise, what someone earns next year (or out years) are not really constitutionally protected===

    So, if I say I promise to love you forever I’m free to dump you tomorrow?


  57. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:43 pm:

    - Sue -

    I’m not a pension/union employee.

    I have no pension, never been a union employee.

    Please, either speak truthfully about me or don’t say anything at all.


  58. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:44 pm:

    - Sue -

    I’m also not a municipal, county, state, or federal employee.

    Capiche?

    Enough.


  59. - By the way - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:50 pm:

    So OW and RNUG both literally live on this board and defend the unions tooth and nail, and yet have no skin in the pension game? It doesn’t take Einstein to know they are both lying.


  60. - Three Dimensional Checkers - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:52 pm:

    Anonymous, what does that even mean? Only money you have in your pocket is real? Any promise to pay you tomorrow is not a real obligation? You sound like you’re from the Trump University school of contracts.


  61. - By the way - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:53 pm:

    RNUG: The pension shift to cities and towns will never work because it will bankrupt them overnight. With the highest property taxes in the nation already, they cannot be raised much more and that will never work.


  62. - Trapped in the 'burbs - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:53 pm:

    As a Tier 1 member, I’d be more than happy to talk about a COLA buyout or some other consideration based compromise. The Court has made it clear that not funding the pensions cannot be the basis for not paying the pensions. Maybe it’s time for the grown ups to address this problem.


  63. - Honeybear - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:55 pm:

    Sue when you go after pensions
    You are saying the I, Honeybear
    don’t deserve to have
    what I will have contributed too
    all these years.
    Do I not deserve 22,000 dollars a year during my retirement in 2034?
    I challenge you.
    Replace Public Employee, Union employee, pensioner, etc with Honeybear.
    Let’s make this personal.
    Don’t make this impersonal.
    We’re talking about individuals like me
    We’re talking about taking my pension away.
    We’re talking about me having to live off less.

    We’re talking about my ability to help my children
    my grandchildren,
    Instead, you would have me become a burden to them.
    Destitute parent living in my adult children’s basement.
    Go ahead if you want to postulate about pensions
    Make sure you add that reality


  64. - Fixer - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:55 pm:

    Who let the new IPI guys and gals loose on here today? Rahman is a hack when it comes to this subject and is parroting Tribune E-board points for… I’m not sure what his goal is here. But as has been pointed out multiple times, state supreme court already ruled on trying to diminish current employee and retiree benefits. It’s not happening. Shouting into the wind isn’t going to change that.


  65. - Nick Name - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:56 pm:

    ===not survive a challenge under Article 1, Section 10 of the US Constitution - as the Illinois Supreme Court has already pointed out in its rulings. Moreover, that provision of the US Constitution is not subject to amendment because it is part of the Bill of Rights.===

    Huh?

    Article 1, Section 10 is not in the Bill of Rights. It’s Article 1, Section 10.

    Second, Any part of the Constitution is subject to amendment. What makes the Bill of Rights holy and untouchable? They’re only the first ten of twenty-seven amendments. Any amendment can be repealed, as the 21st amendment repealed the 18th.


  66. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:57 pm:

    ===The pension shift to cities and towns will never work because it will bankrupt them overnight. With the highest property taxes in the nation already, they cannot be raised much more and that will never work.==

    That’s probably why no one is willing to try it. You missed - RNUG -‘s point.

    Keep up.

    ===literally live on this board and defend the unions tooth and nail, and yet have no skin in the pension game? It doesn’t take Einstein to know they are both lying.===

    I am an advocate of labor, especially trade labor due in large part of Reagan Republicans use to be defined by their labor ties.

    If you think I’m not truthful, that’s on you.

    I have no ties to unions, i have no pension, I’m not a muni, county, state or federal employee.


  67. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:58 pm:

    Not that it matters but Thompson added the 3 percent in 1990 as part of a deal in which he greatly increased his own pension benefit. I recognize that the Supreme Court couldn’t care less but arguably the pension guarantees sholuld only pertain to what was in the Pension Code at the time of the constitutional convention where they imposed this on us. The 3 percent in and of itself is significantly creating the financial crisis


  68. - Fixer - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:58 pm:

    By the Way, just stop bud, you’re wrong. Admit it and take another Avenue instead of trying to make it a personal thing. I’m going out on a limb that RNUG is, when it comes to this stuff, by far the smartest guy in the room.

    Read the hyperlink at the top of the comment thing and follow the advice you see there. Fools aren’t suffered lightly.


  69. - A Jack - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 4:59 pm:

    Has Rahm really accomplished anything as mayor? It almost seems like he is trying to bolster his legacy by blaming other factors. Sure Chicago roads are a mess, but it’s because the gas tax is too low. Sure Chicago pensions are underfunded, but no one deserves that big of a pension. I am waiting for Rahm’s explanation for the spike in shootings and police malfeasance that have occurred on his watch.


  70. - work in progress - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:01 pm:

    Never understood the pensions are a promise argument. Are promises more binding than contractual agreements ?


  71. - Moe Berg - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:01 pm:

    What’s with the ad hominem attacks of late from mostly new handles?

    Try to add to the discussion by arguing your points with facts — or be silent.

    There are many knowledgeable people here from whom you can learn.


  72. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:01 pm:

    ===waiting for Rahm’s explanation for the spike in shootings===

    He blamed them on low morals of black people.


  73. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:02 pm:

    Anonymous 4:39pm, under federal law, state pensioners’ Social Security checks are reduced one dollar for every pension dollar. So if a state employee contributes to Social Security it makes no sense to also contribute to a pension. And it does not matter what Social Security was designed for, but in practice it provides over half of income retirement for about 60 percent of retiree households. It is the de facto national pension system.


  74. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:02 pm:

    The other problem is in creating the COLA the legislature never envisioned us having a long period of nearly zero inflation so no one suggested a formula of CPI not to exceed 3 percent


  75. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:02 pm:

    Ok, Honeybear, every dollar taken out of my pocket to fund your retirement reduces my ability to support my family and grandkids, pay my medical bills, pay my taxes. I guess maybe you should have diversified?


  76. - Han’s Solo Cup - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:03 pm:

    -By the Way-…I’d say that’ll do it. Thanks for contributing zero to the blog today besides insulting two of the most insightful commenters on here. I’m guessing you won’t be missed.


  77. - SSL - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:06 pm:

    The bloggers were angry that day my friend. Two pension posts in one day. Some of these folks already have high blood pressure Rich.

    I’ve learned a lot from the regulars who post here, and while I have a very different perspective than most, I encourage new comers to respect the work they do to educate most of us that don’t have the time, or frankly, the inclination to figure out how government works.

    I do think the earlier pension post is more interesting, but Rahm has always bored me.


  78. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:07 pm:

    ===So OW and RNUG both literally live on this board and defend the unions tooth and nail, and yet have no skin in the pension game?

    Here’s the thing. My mother retired from the Illinois State and several times worked to stop unionization in her work area. She earned her pension even though she was never a member of a union. Trying to paint this as a result of corrupt unions tells more about you and how clueless about state government you are.

    The problem is the state government didn’t make the payments at the time–the workers did. Now, those bills are due and the state government is going to pay them. If you think it’s some corrupt bargain, you can live in your fantasy world all you want, but the State of Illinois just decided to deal with the issue without gimmicks or false hope of haircuts or whatever ridiculous metaphor you want to make.


  79. - Steve - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:08 pm:

    It will be interesting to see how high state and local taxes have to go to meet the obligations.


  80. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:09 pm:

    ===Some of these folks already have high blood pressure Rich===

    Coulda been three but I stopped myself.


  81. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:11 pm:

    Homer you’re wrong, the state pension does not reduce Social Security benefits that public employees paid into and have earned. And Sue its not a COLA. If you can’t educate yourself you’d best stay out of the discussion.


  82. - pawn - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:12 pm:

    Anonymous, what you seem to forget is that Honeybear did not pay into FICA. If you are not a state employee, presumably you did and will get that money or some version of it when you retire. This is the alternate to that. So whether Honeybear diversified or not, the basic promise is that she (? assuming?) will get her pension. It is personal. BTW, I am also not a union person, have no pension ahead of me.


  83. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:18 pm:

    ===Me, I can just leave the state if needed.===

    … and yet, here you are.

    With Kass, @statehousechick, Proft, Tillman…

    What else ya got?


  84. - Perrid - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:20 pm:

    If they tied it to CPI exactly, it would be hard to argue against by itself, though you could still argue about breaking a promise. Or CPI +0.1% even. But the maximum of 3% or half of CPI is just draconian, it puts in statute that pensioners WILL lose buying power the longer they are retired, period.


  85. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:21 pm:

    ===Firstly, the pensions cannot be paid in full and the next recession will prove that at the least.

    Actually they can. This is just a bald assertion that isn’t backed by anything other than wishful thinking for an apocalypse of the modern state. The reality is the debt can be refinanced and then paid down–in fact, by creating bonds for the funds it requires that payments be made to pay for those those bonds.

    ===and escape the very real public union corruption that runs the state government and has run it into the ground. Perks for votes that never were affordable

    First, they were affordable had the state paid in the correct amount over the years. That’s just a ridiculous statement. It’s silly.

    It is also not corruption for groups and organizations to engage in public policy debates. It’s a silly argument.

    You’ve tried to insult posters like RNUG who can actually explain the finance issues very well, but you can’t make an argument other than one full of silly assertions.


  86. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:22 pm:

    Anonymous 5:11 pm., I was wrong about the 1 for 1 reduction in Social Security benefits for pensioners. It is actually a sliding scale from 90 cents to the pension dollar to 40 cents to the pension dollar. Go here and read all about it https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v74n3/v74n3p55.html. The provisions are called the Windfall Elimination Program and the Government Pension Offset.


  87. - Yiddishcowboy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:25 pm:

    @By the Way…is that you Gov. Rauner?


  88. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:25 pm:

    === the state pension does not reduce Social Security benefits that public employees paid into and have earned.

    Narrator: It does affect the amount paid to the retiree.

    https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf


  89. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:25 pm:

    “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”

    - Numbers 30:2

    “See, you know how to take the reservation, you just don’t know how to hold the reservation and that’s really the most important part of the reservation, the holding. Anybody can just take them.”

    - Seinfeld 3:11


  90. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:29 pm:

    ===Anon 4:23, many public employees do participate in Social Security. If you are knowledgeable about that program, it is designed to supply a third of retirement income. It is not a substitute for a pension.

    No, it provides about 40% of pre-retirement income in simple cases. While it is wise to have additional resources, the amount of retirement income needed varies by individuals, but few plan to have the same income they did while working.

    Also, the Anonymous 5:25 was me.


  91. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:30 pm:

    ===“See, you know how to take the reservation, you just don’t know how to hold the reservation and that’s really the most important part of the reservation, the holding. Anybody can just take them.”

    I used this very quote with U-Haul years ago. I was told I was out of line.


  92. - Perrid - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:30 pm:

    “What someone has earned today should be a promise, what someone earns next year (or out years) are not really constitutionally protected and if the courts have determined they are, voters should get say about the future.”

    Rich’s reply was snappier, but the promise was a certain percentage of your final average salary, plus 3% compounding interest. That was the promise. You might be able to swing not giving anyone a raise, ever (good luck negotiating THAT), but changing that benefit formula at all is a broken promise.


  93. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:31 pm:

    Folks- get the State to start growing (as opposed to shrinking)-there would be more revenue growth. Maybe the Dems could recognize that their policies have been the cause of our fiscal calamities and in order to fulfill the pension promises they start legislating changes to enhance growth. Major Workers Comp changes, prevailing wage, constrain union raises. Nd benefits. Get employment growing and increasing tax receipts and you suddenly have the revenues needed to pay pensions. Unfortunately we have the worst of all worlds, a lousy business environment because of Dem controlled legislature and the worst pension funding and Rezko estate taxes. It’s zll a trade off- if the unions want the pensions protected they should embrace overall business reforms. Can’t pay the pensions with. Shrinking base. Sorry but math is math


  94. - Angry retiree - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:33 pm:

    I worked for the State for 30 years as an attorney and never hit a 6 figure salary because doing something like handling cases against doctor’s licenses and contributing to society was important to me. I get a modes pension which includes the 3% AAI. What no one seems to have mentioned here is that my contribution went up when the provision went into effect. I paid extra for it and you want to take it away.


  95. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:35 pm:

    ===…changes, prevailing wage, constrain union raises.===

    This battle was fought in November.

    Rauner lost. Arguably the worst list for an Illinois gubernatorial incumbent in 100 years.

    So, there’s that.


  96. - Angry retiree - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:37 pm:

    That should have been “modest” not modes.


  97. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:37 pm:

    Now maybe we can get somewhere. JB is gonna have to either raise taxes to California’s level, or slash the budget to a point where people really get upset. My bet. California tax rates.


  98. - RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:39 pm:

    == Homer you’re wrong, the state pension does not reduce Social Security benefits that public employees paid into and have earned. ==

    That depends on whether the government pension is coordinated it non-coordinated.
    Mom was non-coordinated. Because of the SS gap decade and the Fed offset rule, she basically got nothing from my dad’s SS spousal survival benefit. And dad only collected s few years of SS benefits.


  99. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:47 pm:

    RNUG, I think our new friend is trying to split hairs–technically the benefits that are paid into and earned aren’t affected, but the benefit paid out is often affected.

    Or he’s just wrong. I can’t tell.


  100. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:47 pm:

    Sue, your ideas were soundly rejected by 15 points at the polls. A better idea would be to welcome as many young, healthy immigrants to Illinois as is humanly possible. Why? The overall fertility rate in the US is around 1.75, when 2.1 is considered the replacement rate. Who has fertility rates above 1.75 and closer to 2.1? You guessed it, immigrants! Obviously, we want more domestic in migration, but foreign immigration can staunch the bleeding somewhat.


  101. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:50 pm:

    That offset applies solely to spouses.


  102. - RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:52 pm:

    == and yet have no skin in the pension game ==

    As Rich would say, use the Google.

    If you weren’t such a newbie here, you would know I have previously disclosed I worked for the State in a SERS covered position in management. I was appointed by Jim Thompson. I held a Vinson Bill exempt Senior Public Service Administrator title … which makes your uninformed union claim a joke that I laughed at … I was on the other side of the table. And, just to be perfectly clear, I have never belonged to a union, either inside or outside government.

    Heck, ask Honeybear or some of the other union people here. They will tell you I am just as likely to be critical of unions.


  103. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:52 pm:

    Homer not surprisingly your link doesn’t work.


  104. - Not a Billionaire - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:52 pm:

    It’s hard to add RNUG Rich OW and Arch but this sudden focus on attention on the pension strikes me as the losers biting Pritzgers outstretched hand. He just needs to ignore them . The GOP is irrelevant and this stuff is just making it worse for them . As for cuts there are a bunch of state institutions in red areas Cuts could start there.


  105. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:54 pm:

    Anon 5:25 you have to read carefully. At the top it says if your employer does not withhold SS. Some people participate and some people don’t. People who pay into SS do not have the offset.


  106. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:55 pm:

    ===That offset applies solely to spouses.

    You do realize two people linked directly to the federal page that shows this is a misstatement, right?


  107. - Rahminator - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:55 pm:

    ===waiting for Rahm’s explanation for the spike in shootings===

    ===He blamed them on low morals of black people.===

    He sure did. And the only one person was brave enough to publicly take him to task on it.


  108. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:56 pm:

    Anonymous 5:52 pm, the link is correct. The commenting system decided to include the period in the link itself. Here it is again (no period at the end this time): https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v74n3/v74n3p55.html


  109. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:59 pm:

    I love the logic (lack of) and brilliance of some of these folks arriving out of the woods today. These lower taxes, grow the economy braniacs think that reducing the income of hundreds of thousands people will help the economy?

    Kansas beckons.

    The pensions are protected. Iron clad. The framers of the Illinois Constitution knew these types of people would try to steal the compensation (the pension is delayed compensation)of hardworking people, whatever the amount it was earned.

    But if the pensions could be stolen, why do they think their income/future is safe?

    The argument they are making is essentially thus: We promised to pay your for your work, part of your contract was for deferred income via a pension. Now, times are tough and we didn’t do our job. Although you did the work, we are not fulfilling our end of the bargain.

    These are high character folks./s


  110. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:59 pm:

    ===Homer not surprisingly your link doesn’t work.

    Remove the period at the end. It works fine without that.


  111. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:02 pm:

    Oswego- your missing the big picture- doesn’t matter who won or lost the election. The reason the pension crisis is growing is in large measure that the State’s tax revenue base is shrinking. If Illinois had a growth trajectory more like Texas, Florida or GA, we could raise sufficient tax revenues to pay pensions and the rest of our urgent needs rather then pay pensions and starve everything else. Madigan and Pritzker could turn things around if they enhanced the business environment. Too many employers are exiting and we keep losing the beauty contests for new entrants. We could enhance the business environment but the unions both private and public won’t allow it to happen


  112. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:03 pm:

    ====People who pay into SS do not have the offset.

    This isn’t hard. If you have SS earnings and a state pension where the pension is in place of SS, non-coordinated as RNUG pointed out, then, yes, your benefits are reduced.


  113. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:04 pm:

    I read both of the links. It appears both of you haven’t. Some public employees pay into both pension and SS. They do not have the offset. Those who don’t pay into SS (noncovered) and only pay into pension have the offset. That makes sense, because they paid in less. Some folks are just willfully ignorant I guess.


  114. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:05 pm:

    === your missing the big picture===

    Nope. Not at all

    74/40 vs. 44/19… that’s the big picture.

    Just as 60/30, or 71/36

    You can want… or think you know… but it’s about those numbers…

    Rauner set back the ILGOP by 6 years at least.


  115. - Norseman - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:06 pm:

    Why is it that so many commentaters seem to lack the intelligence to make a point without using false and perjorative labels?


  116. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:06 pm:

    ===doesn’t matter who won or lost the election===

    Saying that after your candidate lost is pretty darned rich.


  117. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:07 pm:

    Arch I have said that over and over. Some public employees participate in both, and they are treated differently than those who participate in just one. Easy peasy.


  118. - RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:14 pm:

    == This isn’t hard. If you have SS earnings and a state pension where the pension is in place of SS, non-coordinated as RNUG pointed out, then, yes, your benefits are reduced. ==

    Actually, it also applies to spouses of coordinated government retirees, but it is much less drastic. I have spent hours talking to SERS coordinators and a cousin who administered SS benefits to be sure I understood my situation.

    If / when I were to pass away, my wife would receive my full SS benefit but the 1/2 of my state pension she is entitled to would be reduced by a percentage of the difference between her full SS benefit and the (larger in my case) SS benefit of mine. It is not a dollar for dollar reduction, but a percentage of only the increase.


  119. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:14 pm:

    Anonymous 6:07 pm, would you care to share an example?


  120. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:14 pm:

    ===Some public employees participate in both, and they are treated differently than those who participate in just one. Easy peasy.

    See explanation above, but it’s just not a debatable point here. If you don’t contribute to SS as a state employee because you have a state pension and you have previous years or in some cases additional jobs on top of working for the state, your SS Benefits are reduced by a proportion. That’s explained very clearly in both links above. Saying that benefits aren’t affected or that there is no reduction is factually false in such cases.


  121. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:18 pm:

    OW- what difference do your numbers make. I don’t cars if the legislature is 100 percent D. You can only raise taxes so much before you turn the State into a Ghost town. Ask the Gov of CT who chased GE out along with so much revenue he is being forced to cut individual deals as the Hedge Fund execs leave along with their tens of millions of tax receipts. No matter who runs Illinois we need growth. The reason we’re in this position is that our growth is virtually ZERO and has been since 08. You are losing people and tax revenues we need and just raising taxes absent meaningful reform is a losing proposition. Rauner was a failure but his message want wrong


  122. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:22 pm:

    ===what difference do your numbers make===

    lol, tell that to Bruce Rauner.

    ===The reason we’re in this position is that our growth is virtually ZERO and has been since 08.===

    Good thing Rauner is gone then.


  123. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:27 pm:

    Suggesting Rauner is responsible for either the pension problem or the States decades long anemic growth shows nothing other then your own dishonesty and lack of credibility


  124. - Silicon Prairie - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:29 pm:

    Sue - Very well said. I would add it isnt a bad thing to have the growth of downtown move from 1 block, to 1 mile , to 2 mile, and now 3 mile and rebuild the city and infrastructure. The question is : Are there enough people on the edge 8-10 miles out wanting to be urban pioneers in there area to rebuild their neighborhoods. It isnt there right now. Look at the TOD’s in those areas, it is vacant, developers dont want to go there. That is a problem


  125. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:32 pm:

    Rauner is responsible for his term.

    Your suggestion(s), - Sue -, Rauner showed that my numbers, not your numbers, turned out to be Rauner’s demise.


  126. - Ole General - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:33 pm:

    Been away but like the pension problem I’m going nowhere. What’s amusing to me is that as services are cut, it’s working class people and the vulnerable that are affected most.

    Similar to Tier II, the early recipients are reaping the rewards while others foot the bill.

    Taxes aren’t going up enough to offset this. Growth is too slow to support. What will happen is like Quinn, Pritzker sees the basic math and tries something radical.

    We cannot afford the current ramp with one of the longest bull markets in history. Wait till the next recession and then people will get really desperate.


  127. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:34 pm:

    Silicon- Illinois is more then Chicago. We have lots of facilities thruout the State that need to be occupied by entities who bypass Illinois in their searches. It would never pass muster with the Dem’s but legislating industrial zones free of the typical regulatory regime would be just one idea for JB to contemplate


  128. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:37 pm:

    ===but legislating industrial zones free of the typical regulatory regime===

    Right to Work zones?

    Maybe you are Rauner, lol


  129. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:38 pm:

    Sue, Bruce “I’m not in charge” Rauner learned the hard way that even if problems predated his term in office, people assumed Rauner was indeed in charge and sent him packing. Rich said it best: voters don’t do nuance. Voters didn’t care the pension problem is due to Edgar, Thompson, Madigan, unions, etc. Rauner was governor, so it was his problem to fix.


  130. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:40 pm:

    OW- here is a number for you. Illinois has the lowest job growth of any State in the Union 2008- 2018 both days in actual numbers and as a percentage. 10 years of no overall job growth and more people leaving then arriving. Next census we lose another congressional district. To put it in terms you will understand- tax receipts pay public sector benefits. Tax receipts decline and you can’t touch benefits- other services decline like higher Ed explaining why our future job occupants are leaving by the 10’s of thousands. What is it you don’t comprehend?


  131. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:45 pm:

    Homer - remember that in 4 years as Pritzker has now inherited what is in all likelihood an unsolvable problem. 140 billion pension liability plus unfounded health care - yea good luck with that one


  132. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:45 pm:

    ===tax receipts pay public sector benefits.===

    Why would I understand that, I’m neither a public sector employee or a retireee.

    But… public sector employees and those retirees are taxpayers, same as you.

    ===Illinois has the lowest job growth of any State in the Union 2008- 2018===

    Then Rauner is just as much to blame as anyone.

    Are you unable to understand 60/30 or 71/36?

    Is it because they’re double digits? lol


  133. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 6:55 pm:

    Sue, Illinois is one of the wealthiest states in the Union, I’m sure we can find a way to pay the pensions. This problem goes away once the last Tier 1 pensioner dies. That may take 50 years. I’m sure the problem will be solved one way or another by then.


  134. - Not It - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:01 pm:

    I just don’t understand politicians who argue that public employee pensions should continue to be extravagant. Get a clue; check out the real world.


  135. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:06 pm:

    Not It, Tier 2 is not that extravagant at all. Moving forward, Tier 2 pensions will be manageable. Now if only we could pay off Tier 1 pensioners like we promised.


  136. - Flat Bed Ford - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:07 pm:

    Dear JB,
    Can we stop promising so much? Please. You are the only one in Illinois who was born into billions of dollars. Us non-union working stiffs cannot just keep on throwing cash into the inferno that is state government.


  137. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:12 pm:

    Not it

    All new employees go into Tier II and it most certainly is not extravagant.

    The rest of your comment is just childish jibberish


  138. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:18 pm:

    Sue

    Your comments read like you’re regurgitating the Rauner message for the last 4 years. A message that was soundly rejected. And yet here you are peddling it. Figure out a new message


  139. - Sue - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:19 pm:

    Demoralized- tier 2 is just short of a Madoff Ponzi Scheme.


  140. - Regular democrat - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:20 pm:

    Nobody f***s w RNUG. Please dont listen to Rahm. Nobody else is. He really doesnt work here any more. Goodbye and good luck. Dont worry your legacy is secure


  141. - Tim - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:22 pm:

    Oswego Willy,

    The Constitution might say you can’t reduce a benefit, but it says nothing about taxing income other than the flat tax language. And 75K is too high. 50K indexed for inflation would be better.


  142. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:30 pm:

    Oh - Tim -

    ===Why don’t we just tax pension benefits over $75000 per year. Would that not solve the problem?===

    Retirement income. Constitution. Read about it.


  143. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:31 pm:

    - Tim -

    “Of the 41 states that impose an income tax, Illinois is one of only three that exempt all pension income and one of 27 that exclude all federally taxable Social Security income, according to the Civic Federation, a nonpartisan budget watchdog. In all, just 12 states, including Illinois, do not tax retirement income.”

    Keep up.


  144. - Cream of Wheaton - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:44 pm:

    Time for a haircut


  145. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:46 pm:

    ===Time for a haircut===

    The ILSC and that pesky constitution disagrees.

    Then there’s the US Constitution…


  146. - Mama - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 7:48 pm:

    “Pritzker spox”

    What/who is a spox?


  147. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 8:21 pm:

    Sue

    Hence, not extravagant.


  148. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 8:24 pm:

    Tim

    I’m assuming you are talking about all retirement income and not just state pensions. If not then OW is right. Cant single out state retiree income


  149. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 8:33 pm:

    Flat Bed Ford

    He’s promising to pay what is owed. Is there a problem paying debts that are due?


  150. - A State Employee Guy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 8:37 pm:

    Thisisfine.gif


  151. - Supreme fan - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 8:48 pm:

    The Illinois Supreme Court clearly ruled on all of this; pensions are protected by the state constitution. Further it is noted that pensions are enforceable contracts protected by the US Constitution. Also, any state constitution change cannot impact those currently in Tier 1 as it would create an unconstitutional ex post facto issue. The solution rests with some kind of plan to actually pay the debt as that , debt, is really the issue here. It seems that J.B. gets that; thank goodness


  152. - RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 9:07 pm:

    == What/who is a spox? ==

    Spokesperson …


  153. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 9:24 pm:

    Fun blog today. Honeybear, you’ll get your pension. Or at least you should. Backing up a bit, our finances are depressing. May I cite Crain’s article that our housing market is predicted to be in last place in the top 100 metro markets. There are consequences to poor fiscal management. Future higher tax burdens don’t help business sentiment..


  154. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 9:42 pm:

    RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:52 pm:

    I was very upset when I saw those two people attack you RNUG. You are greatly appreciated by 99.999999999% of the people who read this blog.

    You are the truest definition of a kind, knowledgeable, great person

    Please don’t allow a couple of angry clueless guys to make you feel bad.

    To paraphrase the seasonal Movie, George Bailey, a man who has friends Is not a failure. In your case, I would say most of us who read this blog would consider you a friend. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year RNUG. I am sorry but I am just very upset that you have been attacked and it is wrong.


  155. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 9:44 pm:

    RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 5:52 pm:

    I was very upset when I saw those two people attack you RNUG. You are greatly appreciated by 99.999999999% of the people who read this blog.

    You are the truest definition of a kind, knowledgeable, great person

    Please don’t allow a couple of angry clueless guys to make you feel bad.

    To paraphrase the seasonal Movie, George Bailey, a man who has friends Is not a failure. In your case, I would say most of us who read this blog would consider you a friend. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year RNUG.


  156. - Not a Billionaire - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 9:50 pm:

    Its the poor people who are leaving not the rich.


  157. - City Zen - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 9:57 pm:

    ==if you started out making $30K as a Chicago school teacher 30 years ago, you would have to make $63K a year today to keep pace with inflation.==

    That’s easy to find out since all the contracts with salary schedules are online. 30 years ago, a Chicago school teacher started out at $17,156. With inflation, that’s $36,674 today. 30 years later, that teacher makes, at minimum, $87,639, but in all likelihood moved over a couple of lanes to make $93,199. So around 2.5x the rate of inflation. Not bad.

    Plus all 30 years, this teacher only contributed 2% of their wages towards their pensions and never had to pay social security. Even better.


  158. - RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 10:04 pm:

    -Anonymous- # 9:44pm

    I actually got a laugh out of being called a union flack. Heck, I’m probably the only admitted GOP leaning Libertarian here.

    Anyway, your kind words made me smile. Thanks.


  159. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 10:25 pm:

    Rahm is a lameduck mayor. What he thinks the legislature ought to do about pensions is not relevant.

    The Chicago Tribune endorsed Rauner, and Pritzker skipped — skipped — their endorsement session. Accross the region, Republicans endorsed by the Tribune in communities where folks used to argue the Tribune endorsement matters got trounced.

    The Illinois Policy Institute has become a non-factor in politics and policymaking, and Proft has become persona non grata. No one on the Right has an effective counter to Pritzker’s call for taxing the wealthiest, keeping our promises, and reinvesting in roads, schools, and human capital.


  160. - anon - Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 11:53 pm:

    It’s called bankruptcy Rahm–could have tried it all on your own

    –worked for Detroit–but your Lasalle street buys would have taken a bath.


  161. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 7:34 am:

    The intellectual light politicians like Rahm love to quote dramatic figures like how much the full 3% increase will cost but how little would be saved with any acceptable attenuation of the 3% to a smaller rate. It plays well with a lot of the voting populace which cynical politicians know vote based upon emotion rather than intellect.


  162. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 7:49 am:

    Beside protecting pensions, Pritzker and Democrats should look at legislation that has the goal of strengthening Illinois unions and workers. Rauner and his IPI philosophy caused unprecedented damage to the state in his war against union rights. With the upcoming government, it’s time for Illinois to take a strong stand against the right wing union attacks that have been happening all around us.


  163. - Flat Bed Ford - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 7:49 am:

    Sorry union folks but the 3% compounding COLA is not sustainable… promised or not. the $42 billion number is JUST Chicago. Even over 40 years that’s a huge nut to crack. JB can raise taxes all he wants (and he will) but there isn’t a way to cover all the pension obligations just on the revenue side. There are a lot of union folks whistling past the graveyard in Illinois.


  164. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 7:50 am:

    Ok. $133B pension deficit. 12M people in the State, including kids, retirees, poor people. Where’s the money going to come from? And also, keep in mind that the IL Constitution is up for amending in less than 10 years, so …

    Seriously, where will the money come from?


  165. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:08 am:

    City Zen

    There you go again with your snarky commentary about what someone else makes. Here’s an idea for you. You go be a Chicago teacher since you think the gig is so great. Then get back to us with your snarky, arrogant commentary about what they make.


  166. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:09 am:

    ==Sorry union folks==

    That anti-union sentiment was trounced in this election. Better find a new enemy.


  167. - BenFolds5 - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:13 am:

    Just because Rauner lost doesn’t mean the pension math changed. Yay, JB said he’s going to save the (my) pension. Like Rauner did not do, please explain how this will happen? Are you going to tax the majority of people to pay a minority of people a pension? How long til we continue have people and business leave. Like every good Ponzi scheme it ends at some point. It’s not politics. It’s math. Rahm on his way out, is finally honest. Bash him or anyone you want. Math always wins.


  168. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:20 am:

    Those crying about pension costs now have for decades benefited from a state income tax rate that’s lower than almost every state around us. It’s way past time to right-size the income tax code and get a progressive income tax. Why should the rest of us have to suffer cuts and keep shouldering a bigger state and local tax burden?


  169. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:20 am:

    == to pay a minority of people a pension==

    So it’s majority rule in paying debts. I see. What an absurd statement. There sure are a lot of people who simply want to walk away from debt. How honorable of you.


  170. - RNUG - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:23 am:

    Doesn’t matter if you amend the State Constitution. There is still that pesky US Constitution with it’s Contracts Clause.

    You can’t just declare an existing contract invalid. Or if the State is going to attempt that, let’s just declare all the outstanding State bonds null and void, and use that savings to pay the pensions.


  171. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:27 am:

    == let’s just declare all the outstanding State bonds null and void==

    That’s a great comment. Why should pension debt be different from any other debt. These people want to walk away from debt? Then lets just walk away from all of it.


  172. - Hieronymus - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:28 am:

    @BenFolds5

    Are as willing to “reform” the principle and interest owed to bondholders? One can just as easily apply your arguments toward the necessity of defaulting on the state’s obligations to everyone, due to their “unsustainably. Or do you only favor a selective default on a certain class of people?


  173. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:30 am:

    == - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:23 am:
    Doesn’t matter if you amend the State Constitution. There is still that pesky US Constitution with it’s Contracts Clause. ==

    United Airlines, GM, Enron, City of Detroit …


  174. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:35 am:

    - Smarty -

    Illinois is not Detroit. You are very new here, as we’ve gone chapter and verse tontyst comparison, and a city vs. a state comes into play too.

    It’s not easy nor is it a legal avenue tonigbore both constitutions speaking to this issue.

    An easy solution is neither.

    Read up, keep up, or try to be thoughtful tonthe honesty of what’s at play here.


  175. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:39 am:

    Puerto Rico was able to do bankruptcy and restructure pensions, as well. The State of IL can’t pay these pension obligations unless completely soaking the taxpayers, which would 1000% trigger a Constitutional Convention to basically cut pensions altogether.

    Puerto Rico and Detroit declared bankruptcy in the past decade. Arkansas defaulted on its debt obligations back in the ’30s. It’s gonna happen here, folks — there’s no money and there’s no other way. Sorry guys. :-(


  176. - City Zen - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:52 am:

    Demoralized,

    Is it snarky or snarky and arrogant? Or maybe just factual, citing union-signed agreements anyone can access, instead of random numbers?

    Those who fear facts and transparency are the ones that tend to benefit from their suppression. Are you the muse for the “this is fine” meme?


  177. - lake county democrat - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:52 am:

    Is JB Pritzker Illinois version of Jerry Brown’s first term in office (i.e., 2 years later a massive taxpayer revolt)? Let’s see how much he raises taxes and how the voters react to it - that will be a far better test of what the electorate thinks of public unions than this last election.


  178. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:53 am:

    ===the taxpayers===

    Everyone is a taxpayer. Everyone.

    ===which would 1000% trigger a Constitutional Convention to basically cut pensions altogether.===

    Nope.

    There’s no such language “1000%” or otherwise making mandatory at constitutional convention.

    You may want it, but it’s not in any way mandatory.

    Puerto Rico is a possession, not a state.

    ===Arkansas defaulted on its debt obligations back in the ’30s. It’s gonna happen here, folks===

    Was that during the great depression?

    You go back 80+ years to find an example?

    You’re not doing so hot here.


  179. - lost in the weeds - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:56 am:

    Smarty:

    You speak as if bankrupty is a good thing.

    Detroit had riots, abandonment by Auto industry, and white flight. Arkansas had depress plus massive flood in 1927. Again affecting many African Americans in the delta

    Illinois? Not sure what the problem is. Seems more of a systemic system wide problem. Failed tax policy would be a place to look.


  180. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:57 am:

    @CZ- in your comments about CPS raises you make the point that the increases are 2.5x the rate of inflation.

    My question is so what? Why would a salary increase have anything to do with inflation? I have worked in the private sector and during compensation discussions inflation was never a topic. Why would that matter for the public sector? Merely keeping up with inflation isn’t really an increase.

    In your analysis did you check other factors or just pay? Did CPS teachers pick up insurance costs? In some years that can completely erase a raise or even resul in reduc d compensation.


  181. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 8:58 am:

    Detroit, Puerto Rico and Arkansas show the precedent has been made. It’s successfully been done before.

    Again, where is the money going to come from? Each taxpayer of IL: man, woman, child, retired, unemployed, working, would have to pay $11,000 to meet current obligations.

    Where’s the money going to come from?


  182. - SSL - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:03 am:

    I’m not saying it would ever get that far, but couldn’t the SCOTUS interpret the US constitution in an unfavorable way for those counting on it to save pensions?


  183. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:04 am:

    ===Detroit, Puerto Rico and Arkansas===

    Two are not states, one was during the Great Depression, 80+ years ago.

    The ILSC made clear, illinois is not meeting its obligation, and is required to do so.

    Further, you can’t cut taxes and then declare bankruptcy, as stopping revenue to not pay won’t be a good case to say Illinois is insolvent.

    ===Again, where is the money going to come from? Each taxpayer of IL: man, woman, child, retired, unemployed, working, would have to pay $11,000 to meet current obligations.===

    The Edgar Ramp, and missing those payments didn’t help.

    Your case would be stronger had Illinois made every single payment, on time, and for the amount owed.

    Willfully ignorant or blissfully unaware, your choice.


  184. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:07 am:

    @Smarty- the money is going to come from tax revenue. You know that. Grow up.

    That $11,000 figure? That is a false flag as well. The state does not have to make up the entire amount today. Grown ups know the issue will be addressed over time. The same way the problem was created. Funny how you seem to have no issue with the benefits you received as a result of the creation of the pension debt but don’t want to pay those who are owed.

    Is that how you treat everyone that does something for you? When the guy fixes your car do you stiff him too?

    Tht is great for the economy.


  185. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:12 am:

    “Your case would be stronger had Illinois made every single payment, on time, and for the amount owed.”

    But, they didn’t. So now what?

    Where’s the money going to come from?


  186. - Jibba - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:13 am:

    Smarty, 11K over 50 years is 200 bucks a year. That sky is really falling.


  187. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:17 am:

    ===But, they didn’t. So now what?===

    According to the ILSC, “pay up”

    Oh, again, when you’ve cut taxes, and haven’t maxed out revenues, and property taxes were not valuated at taxing levels that were consistent… and… there are other means for the 6th largest state to gain revenue…

    …

    Tough ask to say “we give up, we’re bankrupt”

    Argue like an adult here, please.


  188. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:19 am:

    The Detroit pensioners got shafted by this country. Republicans just gave multibillion dollar corporations a free trillion dollar plus tax cut—and we couldn’t bail out the pensioners who live paycheck to paycheck?

    In Illinois at this point we strongly reject the philosophy of lavishing the wealthiest while slashing government employees and government in general. There are plenty of other states where this philosophy does better.


  189. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:27 am:

    “According to the ILSC, “pay up”
    Oh, again, when you’ve cut taxes, and haven’t maxed out revenues, and property taxes were not valuated at taxing levels that were consistent… and… there are other means for the 6th largest state to gain revenue… ”

    So, in other words, raise taxes.


  190. - RNUG - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:27 am:

    == United Airlines, GM, Enron, City of Detroit … ==

    Pensions are usually treated as a grant, not a contract … especially government pensions. That was their status in Illinois proof to 1970 when there were EXPLICITTY declared a contract. The examples you cited are not relevant to the Illinois situation.


  191. - City Zen - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:29 am:

    JS - My point was the “teacher starting at $30,000 30 years ago” example was grossly misleading. If that were the case, based on how CPS contracts played out against inflation, that teacher would be paid $157,000 today. Hardly the sob story that was being portrayed. Maybe that wasn’t the original intent.

    Can I account for every line item benefit in a contract from 1991? No, please contact Jesse Sharkey as he gets paid for that stuff. But those go both ways. I did find a few references to foregoing pension payments to pay for raises. So there’s that.


  192. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:31 am:

    ===raise taxes.===

    No.

    The ILSC stated they are owed. It’s a contract.

    How Illinois goes about paying them, revenue, budget cuts, both… that up to governors and the GA.

    Rauner failed, so now it’s Pritzker’s turn to try to find that fix.


  193. - RNUG - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:32 am:

    == Arkansas defaulted on its debt obligations back in the ’30s ==

    Yep, Arkansas temporarily defaulted on some bonds when they stopped paying interest. The bondholders were eventually paid.


  194. - SSL - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:32 am:

    Given JB’s commitment, he will need to present his income tax plan to deliver on his promise.

    Does he start by increasing the flat tax to 5.99% since the progressive tax is a couple of years away?

    Does he include a portion of retirement income even though he said earlier he wouldn’t do that?

    What does it have to look like to put the state on a path to fiscal stability?


  195. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:33 am:

    “Smarty, 11K over 50 years is 200 bucks a year. That sky is really falling.”

    $200/PER PERSON/PER YEAR. Family of 4 has to pay an additional $800 a year to cover pension obligations. Average household income in IL is $62,992,or almost a week’s worth of pay.


  196. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:36 am:

    ===$200/PER PERSON/PER YEAR. Family of 4 has to pay an additional $800 a year to cover pension obligations. Average household income in IL is $62,992,or almost a week’s worth of pay.===

    Or…

    The governor and the GA can figure a way to not only pay but pay down the debt.

    It’s owed. That’s how this all works. What part of contractually obligated and not diminish is hardest for you to understand? Is there a word or words you need defined, used in another sentence?


  197. - RNUG - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:36 am:

    == Detroit, Puerto Rico and Arkansas show the precedent has been made. ==

    None had explicit contractual standing rndhrinef in a State Constitution.


  198. - RNUG - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:39 am:

    Darn phone.

    None had protection enshrined in their State Constitution.

    And you might want to check on who took the bigger haircut, the pensioners or the bond holders and the bankers.

    Hint: it wasn’t the retirees …


  199. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:39 am:

    “Pensions are usually treated as a grant, not a contract … especially government pensions. That was their status in Illinois proof to 1970 when there were EXPLICITTY declared a contract. The examples you cited are not relevant to the Illinois situation.”

    Puerto Rico had government contracts. Detroit had government contracts. IL has government contracts. The first 2 went thru bankruptcy, IL is likely next.

    You also cite 1970 as like the end-all, be-all. The next IL Constitution is potentially coming up in less than 10 years. Why on earth do you think the IL Constitution will not be changed?


  200. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:42 am:

    RNUG

    About Detroit retirees …

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2015/02/27/detroit-retirees-pension-cuts-become-reality/24156301/


  201. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:44 am:

    ===The next IL Constitution is potentially coming up in less than 10 years===

    Or it may not. Up to the voters.

    That is not guaranteed.

    ===Puerto Rico had government contracts. Detroit had government contracts. IL has government contracts. The first 2 went thru bankruptcy, IL is likely next.===

    (Sigh)

    - RNUG -?

    ===None had protection enshrined in their State Constitution.===

    So there’s that.

    Please stop spamming this with falsehoods.

    You are going over things “asked and answered” by the likes of the ILSC, and while you may not like their response, your want isn’t going to change their ruling.


  202. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:53 am:

    Oswego Willy, you’re right — we will see what the General Assembly and Gov do. I will assert that, if there is a tax increase of $800 to $1000 a household, you’re going to see a taxpayer revolt.

    I can also assert that IL pension debt will get worse before it gets better. There will be a MAJOR push to get the IL Constitution amended for pension relief and reduce IL taxpayer’s contributions to this unsustainable deal.

    Just how it’s gonna go :-(


  203. - RNUG - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 9:54 am:

    == About Detroit retirees … ==

    And some of the bondholders lost up to 90%


  204. - Pundent - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:03 am:

    =The first 2 went thru bankruptcy, IL is likely next.=

    If you want to be taken seriously don’t argue like a child. There’s no objective evidence that Illinois is on the path to bankruptcy. Solving the pension problem requires an agreed plan between the Governor and GA to reduce spending and increase revenue. There’s nothing to suggest that this can’t be done or that bankruptcy is the inevitable outcome. Your screaming might work in the dorm room but not here.


  205. - Jibba - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:06 am:

    Smarty, you believe that an extra $800 tax per family will cause the sky to fall? Worth going into bankruptcy for? Not in my book.

    We all have benefitted for years by a tax rate too low to support the services we used, and now we have to pay a little more to make up for it. This is not the end of the world, even if it is not ideal.

    Bankruptcy is the end of the world for a state. 80 years later you are still talking about a minor default in Arkansas. Imagine a real default with bond holders getting the shaft. We’d be pariahs in the US.


  206. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:14 am:

    “Solving the pension problem requires an agreed plan between the Governor and GA to reduce spending and increase revenue.” Not trying to diss you, but can you show any evidence of this occurring over the past 10 years?

    “Smarty, you believe that an extra $800 tax per family will cause the sky to fall?” If you make $40,000 a year or you’re a senior on a fixed income, yeah. $800 is a health insurance premium. It’s 2 months of utilities. 4 car payments. Money for prescription medications.

    Isn’t it funny how it’s just “a little more” when you’re the one RECEIVING the money, not paying it?


  207. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:15 am:

    ===I will assert that, if there is a tax increase of $800 to $1000 a household, you’re going to see a taxpayer revolt.===

    Maybe a voting revolt. There will be no pitchforks and torchee

    ===There will be a MAJOR push to get the IL Constitution amended for pension relief and reduce IL taxpayer’s contributions to this unsustainable deal.===

    Again, what is owed can’t be altered.

    Further, explain every step to get a constitutional amendment passed, and the steps for an early call for a constitutional convention.

    You are quite lacking in knowledge.


  208. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:21 am:

    Oswego Willy, thanks for your input. Good luck to you, and keep dreamin’ on.


  209. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:24 am:

    ===but can you show any evidence of this occurring over the past 10 years?===

    Quinn made every payment, Rauner made payments too.

    When payments were skipped is where the problems ensued.

    Please keep up, seriously. This is remedial. This site might be too much for you.

    ===Isn’t it funny how it’s just “a little more” when you’re the one RECEIVING the money, not paying it?===

    We are all taxpayers. The retirees paid their share.

    You lack common knowledge.


  210. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:25 am:

    ===Good luck to you, and keep dreamin’ on.===

    … and yet you lack the common knowledge to speak tonthis with any real grasp.

    That’s why what is said to you… you can’t comprehend.

    That’s on you.


  211. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:27 am:

    =I did find a few references to foregoing pension payments to pay for raises. So there’s that.=

    You are spot on with that. When one studies the Daley years it is pretty easy to understand why there was only one (IIRC) teacher strike during his time as mayor.

    The CPS teachers pension fund went from over 100% funded to sub 40% during his time.

    Absolutely correct.

    My poiint to your comment stands though. You made the 2.5 times inflation comment and to be fair I have heard this from people dozens of times. You didn’t directly state that public employee salaries should only rise by the rate of inflation, were you inferring that?


  212. - Smarty - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:28 am:

    “’Solving the pension problem requires an agreed plan between the Governor and GA to reduce spending and increase revenue.” Not trying to diss you, but can you show any evidence of this occurring over the past 10 years?’”

    = ===but can you show any evidence of this occurring over the past 10 years?===
    Quinn made every payment, Rauner made payments too.
    When payments were skipped is where the problems ensued.
    Please keep up, seriously. This is remedial. This site might be too much for you.”

    I guess reading and comprehension is not your strong point. Oh well. Take care.


  213. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:29 am:

    Making the payments shows no bankruptcy.

    Yikes.


  214. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:31 am:

    Asking the wrong questions will not get you the answers you want.

    Illinois also had no budget for two years… did you forget that, or…


  215. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 12, 18 @ 10:34 am:

    =you’re going to see a taxpayer revolt.=

    Please. Far worse things have happened in this country than an extra $15 dollars per week and no revolt. People might get voted out of office if the citizens disagree with what they do, come to think of it that happened not to long ago.

    Oh yeah, Rauner was defeated by the largest margin in Illinois history.

    So, just based on evidence, I am thinking the nirvana you are dreaming of isn’t going to happen.

    People like you make me want to join the Illinois Democratic Party. People like Rauner convinced me to vote Democratic more than I ever have.

    Mission accomplished?


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