71 Comments - A Jack - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:22 pm: Are citizens of those top ten areas migrating to Illinois? - wordslinger - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:25 pm: I’d be curious to see the median income tax burdens. There’s a range of “burdens” in most states. - Highland, IL - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:30 pm: Wait. IPI was wrong about something. /s - driveby - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:33 pm: The Tax Foundation used 2016 numbers — after the temporary tax and before the recent tax increase. Look at the Wallet Hub methodology — pretty straightforward. - KaneFalcon - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:35 pm: The Tax Foundation, an explicitly conservative organization, is not a great source. They make adjustments to the data that historically have not been transparent. A better source would be the Federation of Tax Administrators, which has Illinois 12th for tax collections per capita, but just 20th when it comes to all forms of revenue. https://www.taxadmin.org/2016-state-and-local-revenue - JIbba - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:38 pm: While interesting, this would seem to be more meaningful when standardized by income. For example, NY collects high taxes, but was only 16th in median household income in 2015, so the tax burden seems higher than it might be. Highest median incomes were MD, DC, HI, AK, NJ, CN, then MA, which includes many of the top 10 of per capital tax collections. Illinois was 19th in household income and 11th in per capital taxation. A bit of a mismatch but perhaps not enough to get undies in a bunch. - Ducky LaMoore - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:42 pm: ===Illinois was 19th in household income and 11th in per capital taxation. A bit of a mismatch but perhaps not enough to get undies in a bunch.=== JIbba, exactly what I was looking at. If we can stop the out migration, I think those numbers will be closer. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:46 pm: The 11th highest tax burden for the 6th most populous, with a flat income tax lower in the region, but property taxes that are in places lower than they should, some higher than they should, and school funding being a big part of property taxes. “If you eliminate the 10 ahead of us, we’d be the highest in the country” - City Zen - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:51 pm: For some strange reason it had to be He guided me to Tennessee - Nonbeleiver - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:51 pm: Illinois taxes are high, let’s face it. Particularly property taxes. This does not help the state of Illinois although I would not say it is at the disastrous level- at least yet. But YET is the keyword. Where is Illinois gong to stand in the future? Personally I do not believe that Illinois is in any shape to handle higher taxes on ANYONE. Certainly those who have a business/profession in which they can not leave the state will have to stay. For those who do not have to stay they will eventually leave. And it is certainly not conducive to businesses to come to the state. A reality check that the politicians should (but probably won’t) have to face. - Chicago 20 - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:55 pm: How does Illinois compare to the other “donor” states? - Steve - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:57 pm: Which States citizens have more money left over after the taxes are paid? If I make $100 K and my taxes are 25%, I have $75 K in my wallet. If my income is $50K and my tax rate is 3%, I have $48.5 K in my wallet. Who is really doing better? - Jibba - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 12:58 pm: Tennessee has the 43rd highest median household income and the 49th highest per capital tax collections. You are welcome to your version of paradise. Just be willing to take the hit on your income. But Nonbeliever has a point. There is an upper limit to taxation. Just not seeing any evidence that we are there yet. I’d rather live in a higher tax state that supports and educates its citizens rather than an Ayn Rand distopia. My 2 cents. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:04 pm: The median taxes taken in for all states is $4494. - Merica - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:09 pm: “High” property taxes can mean a lot of different things. It could reference the assessor’s percentage assessment, it could reference an amount paid per capita, but none of those indicators mean anything. The only numbers that matter are the amount that is paid out of pocket vs the fair market value of the property. For example, in Lincoln, IL a homeowner might pay $2,200.00/yr, which doesn’t look like much, until you compare that too the value of the house ($85k). The question is, over 30 years, will the homeowner create equity and come away with more money than they’ve paid, or will taxes, maintence and interest make homeownership a losing proposition ? Central Illinois, some of the suburbs of Chicago, these areas have the highest property taxes in the US. You can see the evidence in poor real estate appreciation or even depreciation, and other indicators. Like in 2016, fewer than 50 homes in Sangamon County sold > $500k, which is incredible for a community > 120k people, with 2 hospitals, 2 universities, lots of law firms, and the seat of government. - Ok - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:12 pm: The right way to see if this is just taxes taxing income would be tax burden per capita versus total income per capita (not median household income). You can have a lower median household income, but lots of billionaires, and thus a higher tax burden per capita. - Donnie Elgin - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:17 pm: First or eleventh when ranking out of fifty both offer cold comfort to the residents. And our Roads are near the top of the list (6th) when looking at disrepair. https://www.wthitv.com/content/news/Some-of-the-countrys-worst-roads-in-Indiana-Illinois-501261791.html , - Jibba - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:28 pm: Thanks for volunteering, OK. I look forward to your analysis. I did the best I could, given the time I felt like taking. - JS Mill - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:37 pm: =The 11th highest tax burden for the 6th most populous,= Not to mention the 5th largest economy in the US. =Who is really doing better?= If you cannot do the math with paper and pencil maybe invest in a calculator? I’ll help- the person with $75,000 is doing better than the one with $48,500 in terms of dollars and cents. Maybe the one with $48.5k loves their jobs but the other one hates theirs? Steve, we get it but next time make a logical argument. - City Zen - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:40 pm: What’s the per capita tax burden if you’re retired? Asking for a friend. - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:42 pm: Driveby, correct, our tax burden is actually higher than this as the income taxes have incraesed and property taxes have skyrocketed too. - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:47 pm: Most probably would not be upset with high taxes if those who actually paid them were the direct resident recipients of the fruits of their labor. Somehow dollars just disappear and those paying wonder what they themselves get for them. - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:49 pm: And taxes collected per capita is not the full story. What is the burden by income? - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:51 pm: Wow,look at our neighbors. No wonder we’re losing people. - Jibba - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:53 pm: CZ, congrats for shoehorning your favorite straw man into the thread. Feel free to look up all relevant data and get back to us on that. But be sure to recalculate for all 50 states. - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:55 pm: Oswego, what does to total population have to do with per capita taxes collected? - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:55 pm: Property taxes are just a means to charge the homeowner fees for services such as road maintenance libraries schools community colleges. Parks etc. and yes this includes paying state and local employees their salaries and benefits Someone implements the services provided to the community I don’t get the argument that over time A long time. You may end up paying a cumulative amount of taxes equaling or exceeding the values of home. Does one stop needing or utilizing the services the community provides once that threshold is met. No. You still have access to those services therefore you should still have to keep paying for them - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:56 pm: Notice that Illinois is losing population and was passed by Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania has a lower tax burden. - SSL - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 1:57 pm: A relatively high tax burden, with the promise for more, all in exchange for substandard services and an unfunded pension liability that leads the nation, by a big margin. What’s not to like. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:00 pm: ===what does to total population have to do with per capita taxes collected?=== It’s an interesting thing, and throw in that median income and Illinois is the 5th largest economy, others point to Texas or Florida but ignore Alabama, Oklahoma, and South Carolina. Why is that? It’s an interesting thing. I’ve looked into Tennessee myself, Nashville-Franklin area… tax burdens and such… what am I getting versus Chicagoland and Kendall County? - anon2 - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:00 pm: The Illinois tax system also ranks as one of the most regressive. The effective tax rate on the bottom 20% is far higher than on the top 10%. So it’s true that some Illinoisans are heavily overtaxed, but it’s not the most affluent. - CFE - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:01 pm: = Illinois was 19th in household income and 11th in per capital taxation.= That’s median household income. You should compare per capita taxes with per capita income (or GDP). Illinois is 12th in per capita GDP. So our taxes are completely average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita This means that income in Illinois is skewed toward the top, even by US standards (since we are 19th in median income and 12th per capita) but our taxes aren’t. So it feels that taxes are unusually high in Illinois (at least to those of us with incomes around the median), when actually taxes are just not as progressive as in most states. The thing that stands out in all this is that Illinois has per capita revenue (at least according to the Federation of Tax Administrators) that’s 20th. (Link above thanks to KaneFalcon.) That seems to indicate that the state government could raise a lot more revenue even without changing taxes whatsoever. I’d be curious to know what other states do that Illinois does not. - Big Jer - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:02 pm: The whole “tax burden” phrase is such a smokescreen and lacks clarity. Tax burden on whom? The middle class? Yup. Working families? Yup. Consumers? Yup. The upper middle class and the wealthy? Not so much. Illinois is also one of the most regressive tax states. I have included links below. https://itep.org/whopays/ ilsummary.pdf As was pointed out in a capitol fax post awhile back, Illinois is also a very wealthy state. https://capitolfax.com/2018/07/19/the-new-guilded-age/ A while ago Mary Schmich of the Trib wrote an article how many two and three flat apartment buildings in Chicago are being torn down to make room for more mansions. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/schmich/ct-met-mary-schmich-two-flats-20180830-story.html In the 90’s I used to hang out a lot in the city in different spots such as Lakeview and Wicker Park. Today you need a six figure income to qualify for a mortgage in Wicker Park. The important question is on whom does the high tax burden fall the hardest. Hint: its not Ken Griffin, Rauner, Pritzker, Madigan, etc. - City Zen - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:05 pm: == If I make $100 K and my taxes are 25%, I have $75 K in my wallet. If my income is $50K and my tax rate is 3%, I have $48.5 K in my wallet. Who is really doing better?== Not following your math, but you bring up a good point regarding tax capacity. Not all income is created equal. If I’m a teacher making $80,000 but the district picks up my pension payment and I don’t pay into social security, I have more money in my pocket than a private sector worker making $100,000 but paying into both. - Perrid - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:14 pm: City Zen, you think your time is best spent bemoaning the fates of individuals making $80-100k a year? Weird choice but OK. And in your teacher bashing you mention that they don’t pay into Social Security. They don’t pay into it because they don’t get a benefit, which your private sector person does receive. Are you really complaining, on behalf of people making $100k a year, that saving up for retirement is a bad thing? - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:21 pm: So, we have high taxation AND terrible governance. - Annonin' - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:29 pm: So if IL had just be part of the Confederacy everything would have been different. Silly Lincoln. - wondering - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:29 pm: Gotta wonder where we would stack up if we had adopted Ogilvies 4% pay as you go plan instead of going kicking and screaming into a miserly and unrealistic income tax rate of 2.5 per cent in 1969. Lost time,lost taxes, the iceman cometh. And how the beneficiaries grieve now the bill is due. - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:31 pm: Beneficiaries? I wasn’t alive in 1969. - City Zen - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:45 pm: ==unrealistic income tax rate of 2.5 per cent in 1969.== I’ll trade you a 1969 4% for a 1970 second pension tier. - Chris - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:45 pm: “fewer than 50 homes in Sangamon County sold > $500k, which is incredible for a community > 120k people, with 2 hospitals, 2 universities, lots of law firms, and the seat of government.” Springfield is a pretty close match to Topeka. 60 sales over $500k is more like 3 years of sales for Washburn County. Yes, yes, Illinois is not Kansas, but Sangamon and Washburn have a lot of commonalities. - JS Mill - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 2:48 pm: =What’s the per capita tax burden if you’re retired?= Less…friend. =If I’m a teacher making $80,000 but the district picks up my pension payment and I don’t pay into social security, I have more money in my pocket than a private sector worker making $100,000 but paying into both.= Here is where your logic falls apart. You friend in the private sector does not pay into both. And that friend probably makes more and has a 401k with employer match. What your “friend does pay is this thing called “taxes” that everyone pays. Even the teacher with the lavish gig and incredible benefits (as compared to a 19th century coal miner) pays “taxes”. - Big Jer - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:01 pm: Also for all the detractors of Illinois high tax burden and high revenues. Here is a link from a Capitol Fax post last week. https://capitolfax.com/2019/01/22/good-luck-sol/ About half way in Rich outlines the “hits” Illinois has taken over the recent years and how behind state agencies and social service agencies are in their funding. Adding to the hits on Illnois are the effects of the deindustrialization (i.e. globalization) of the country which hit Illinois hard. Not everyone can work as a Web Designer or in Chicago’s finance sector. An example are the high unemployment rates in some downstate counties. https://capitolfax.com/2019/01/25/todays-map-8/ My point is deindustrialization, poor government management, corruption, and an aging population are going to put revenue demands on many states in the form of Medicaid, Medicare, Education, Social Services etc. Illinois does need to manage its budget and revenues better. Not a fan of Jeanne Ives but she is right that like a household you have a budget and then your make priorities. However we need a solid progressive tax structure and possibly a wealth tax(looking at you Ken Griffin) do everyone pays their fair share. Rich has mentioned in recent posts “the hollowing out of state government”. To address the hollowing out will in the short term require more revenue, better govt accountability and transparency, and tough choices too. Lastly maybe instead of a loaded term like tax burden i.e. tax - a negative word and burden - a negative word, we can use words like obligations or the costs of paying for a civilization. - A 400lb. Guy on a bed - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:02 pm: =the IPI was wrong about something= That’s never stopped them before. - RNUG - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:04 pm: == What’s the per capita tax burden if you’re retired? Asking for a friend. == Depends on the size of the retirement income (SS, IRA, 401K & variations, pension if any) versus (primarily) the property taxes paid plus sales tax. Your mileage will vary. - RNUG - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:08 pm: == Property taxes are just a means to charge the homeowner fees for services such as road maintenance libraries schools community colleges. Parks etc. and yes this includes paying state and local employees their salaries and benefits == Property taxes go to school districts, townships, cities, counties, and other let Cal districts. They do not go to the State. The only way you could say property taxes go to the State in any form is if you clsim your local school teachers are “state” employees … which they are not. - RNUG - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:13 pm: Local … Not “let Cal” … fat fingers on the phone - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:26 pm: Well Annie 2:31, following Republican logic you are indeed a beneficiary. Had the 4% been enacted the Illinois economy would have tanked. The “job creators” wouldn’t have created….you sir or madam would not be in a position to carp about the current rate of 4.95%. You would have left Illinois….only through 2.5 do we have the extreme benefit of 1.4 being among us…The Gospel according to (fill in the Republican blank) City Zen, you are only .95 away from your wish, close enough for government work. - City Zen - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:37 pm: ==You friend in the private sector does not pay into both. And that friend probably makes more and has a 401k with employer match.== Then what are these strange deductions coming out of my paycheck? Are OASDI and 401(k) unions? I missed the 3 day out-opt window this year, didn’t I? ==And that friend probably makes more== Than the school’s data architect or social studies teacher? I’ll ask him what step he’s on. ==and has a 401k with employer match== The employer 401k “match” is the equivalent to the state (and school district) contribution/ARC. There is no employer match without an employee contribution. - MG85 - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:40 pm: There’s a newsflash: “State with 5th largest economy costs 11th in taxes to maintain.” In other news, The elephant, the largest land animal on Earth, requires more water for a bath than those who are smaller. - Old Illini - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 3:43 pm: ==I’d be curious to see the median income tax burdens== A reasonable guess would be halfway between Massachusetts and Alabama, or about $4800. - wondering - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 4:20 pm: Sorry,Annie 3:26 was me - City Zen - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 4:27 pm: ==“State with 5th largest economy costs 11th in taxes to maintain.” In other news,== …State with 4th largest economy costs 46th in taxes to maintain. In other other news, state with second largest economy costs 46th in taxes to maintain. In even more news, state with 17th largest economy costs 7th in taxes to maintain. Now where are those elephants? - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 4:36 pm: ===…State with 4th largest economy costs 46th in taxes to maintain.=== How many federal dollars are in Texas… between air stations, military bases… NASA… oh, and oil… and tourism… You suggesting all those military bases, oil revenue… NASA… comes to Illinois? That’s fun. - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 4:43 pm: Texas has tourism? Who visits Texas by choice? - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 4:48 pm: ===Texas has tourism? Who visits Texas by choice?=== https://tinyurl.com/ycsdm2j7 ===After California, Florida (No. 2), Nevada (No. 3), Texas (No. 4), and New York (No. 5) dominated over this list. Hawaii came in at No. 10 and Colorado took No. 16. But very few people want to travel to West Virginia, which came in dead last.=== Guess you don’t get out much… lol - Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 5:10 pm: A dot graph would be a nice way to see this data. There are a couple outliers but a large cluster of states have $4000 to $6000 per capital. - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 5:39 pm: Seriously, who visits Texas as a tourist? I have been on business many times and the place is nasty. - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 5:39 pm: Seriously, who visits Texas as a tourist? I have been on business many times and the place is terrible. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 5:45 pm: Because you may be terribly closed minded that Texas was the 4th visited state is probably the best answer to why you can’t comprehend people visit Texas at that level. I know, eye opening when you look at yourself… lol - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 6:07 pm: I’m not closed minded at all. I’ve traveled all over both in the US and internationally. I don’t know why someone would go to Texas on vacation. Other than some interesting history in San Antonio there is nothing of interest. Hideous landscape and horrible weather. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 6:11 pm: ===I don’t know why someone would go to Texas on vacation. Other than some interesting history in San Antonio there is nothing of interest. Hideous landscape and horrible weather.=== “I like the way it’s shaped” #EasterEgg - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 6:21 pm: What do you like about Texas Willy? - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 6:25 pm: Chata Ortega’s… Also got a friend, lives on the border, named Dom… - Anonymous - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 6:38 pm: Id rather go to Mexico, nicer people and much more interesting culture. - A 400lb. Guy on a bed - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 6:42 pm: =Texas has tourism?= Yep, all those folks visiting the Alamo. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 6:43 pm: ===Id rather go to Mexico, nicer people and much more interesting culture.== The privilege of youth… …thanks for the fun. Appreciate it. - VanillaMan - Monday, Jan 28, 19 @ 8:48 pm: Illinoisans shouldn’t mock other states regarding tourism. We’re Illinoisans. We don’t mock. We’re too busy making money. - Stuntman Bob's Brother - Tuesday, Jan 29, 19 @ 12:56 am: ==And taxes collected per capita is not the full story. What is the burden by income?== Yes, plus it would be interesting to see it broken out by individual taxpayer instead of per capita. With a $50K adjusted gross, I paid over $9K last year to the state in just income, real estate, and sales taxes, not counting tolls, gas tax, etc.. Other than being a single guy who owns a home, I’m certainly not living very high on anyone’s hog, yet paid almost 20% of my adjusted gross in taxes to the state. What was JB’s percentage? CZ, Lexington, KY is looking better to me than Nashville. - Jibba - Tuesday, Jan 29, 19 @ 8:22 am: Hey Stuntman Bob, you may wish to remember that none of your property taxes are paid to the state, w which is likely to be about half of your taxes paid You might think of that as a quibble, but it is an important point. - Stuntman Bob's Brother - Tuesday, Jan 29, 19 @ 12:17 pm: Jibba, my wallet doesn’t know where the money goes, except that it’s a tax and it’s gone. You are correct that it’s a “local” tax, but it replaces tax dollars that the state would be collecting if it had a rational way of funding services. All I know is that moving somewhere like TN or KY would save me a boatload of dollars every year, and it’s currently under consideration. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.