56 Comments - Ole' Nelson - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:37 am: This issue seems to be bringing out the worst in the far right. It would be a toss up of who is acting more ridiculously, Baise or “Hurricane” Kristen in the Trib. - Give Me A Break - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:39 am: Greg should call Pate to see what he or Carter would have done with that suggestion. - striketoo - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:40 am: Just finished my Illinois income taxes for 2018. Total income was $152,796, mostly from my pension and IRA distributions. Total tax $615. What a great state. Feel a little guilty but not too much. - Steve - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:42 am: There’s not much to negotiate. You are either for a flat income tax or not. If you have a progressive income tax rates can change often because a flat tax puts everyone in the same boat making changes in the tax code more difficult. The best thing the GOP has going for them is the coming political corruption indictments by May 3 : that will make some people much more cynical abut state and local government in Illinois and raising taxes. https://chicago.suntimes.com/?post_type=cst_article&p=1872663 - Annonin' - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:42 am: Baiser lookin’ more like the new version of Spanky The Clown of IL politics in later life. Recent performances dismal. Gotta think who ever is bankrolling this Think Like West Indiana brain storm will give him the hook soon. Wasn’t that live meeting stuff a failed GovJunk stunt? - Levois - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:45 am: It’s amazing to hear stories of longtime pols who make suggestions counter to their own experience. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:46 am: –If you have a progressive income tax rates can change often because a flat tax puts everyone in the same boat making changes in the tax code more difficult.– Say what now? - Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:48 am: I take it Greg Baise is fine with the infrastructure we have now. - Gogo Yubari - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:48 am: I wonder how Baise would feel about the implementation of a retirement income tax? Our flat-tax neighbors all seem to have this in one form or another. Those flat tax proponents who point their finger at those states never seem to mention this… We can not have our cake, eat it, and complain about the sorry state Illinois is in if we are not willing to do anything about it. - Donnie Elgin - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:49 am: Blaise is just working the narrative, building a vocal opposition to the progressive Tax. Goal is a strong coalition of opposition that will be motivated to vote no on the CA. It is along game and of course the Gov will reject the offer, but Blaise is keeping it in the news. Mission accomplished. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:50 am: ===Say what now?=== The commenter is right, which is a huge reason why the big guns are out for this. Right now, raising the income tax means raising it on everybody. That ain’t easy. In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks. - Annonin' - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:51 am: BTW Katrina is pushing some nonsense from a Naples FL paper and has twitter followers that include noted cyberattack victim/victor Sandy Sandeck - Norseman - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:56 am: === That Greg Baise would’ve laughed off any suggestion that leaders meetings be held in public. === Exactly. This kind of astute observation is why Rich gets paid the big bucks. Baise’s end game is to try and stop graduated income tax period. Obviously, he’s not serious about negotiating anything. To paraphrase Yev Kassem, no talks for you. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:57 am: I understand that Baise is cashing the checks, but I don’t get why he is the public face for this effort. He’s a rich, wired-to-both-parties, shiny-wingtips lobbyist and political operative. That’s the working-class hero who’s the public face of building a statewide grass-roots movement? The dude got beat by Pat Quinn when he put himself out front statewide before. - Not It - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:02 am: Only people on this blog would argue that decision making in back rooms is a good thing. - Skeptic - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:02 am: “I take it Greg Baise is fine with the infrastructure we have now.” Well, you know if we cut out the waste, fraud and abuse, we’d have plenty of money to fix it and cut taxes [/snark] - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:02 am: –In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks.– Maybe, maybe not. No proposed amendment has surfaced yet. - Anon - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:02 am: There should be an addition to the constitutional amendment that if the progressive tax comes to be that every new dollar generated go exclusively to the pension fund for the next 25 years. 40 years of madigan’s leadership tells us that if a new pile of money shows up in revenues it will be spent on everything except what it should be. Looking at the other high tax states with progressive income taxes on the east coast is a look into our future. We are already like 2nd in the country in overall tax burden, and are losing population. Further large hikes aren’t going to make this state any cheaper. The restrained income tax level of 5% is the only thing we had going for us compared to our neighbors, but when that is gone we will suddenly have the clean sweep of highest income taxes, sales, property and business taxes. Without some sort of mechanism to keep them from continually fussing with the rates we will be looking at the beginning of a death spiral as more people leave and taxes have to keep going higher to fill in the gap. God help us if we lose a few of the super wealthy like NY has that has blown a hole in their budget. The only saving grace is that with the Salt cap in place now people will feel every dollar of tax increase since the days of just writing it all off are over. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:04 am: === that has blown a hole in their budget=== Statement not based in fact. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:07 am: ===Only people on this blog=== lol You can always leave. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:09 am: ===40 years of madigan’s leadership=== Edgar Ramp. Governors own. You’re welcome. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:12 am: === In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks.=== Maybe, maybe not. The state constitution that created an income tax linked personal rates to corporate rates to alleviate similar concerns. No reason to believe this amendment won’t propose a similar linkage in the rates to remove the temptation to hike taxes on the rich only. The hysteria is a bit much and a bit premature, don’t you think? - Not a Billionaire - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:15 am: The pension funds were the piggy bank we raided because the income structure ibn the state changed radically since 1970 which is why we have to change the tax structure. - Not It - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:19 am: === You can always leave. === Only people on this blog would ridicule someone who complains about people on this blog being against openness and transparency when it comes to raising taxes. People on this blog adore taxes. They love them. Their entire livelihoods depend on taxes and more taxes. - Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:24 am: Baise’s motivation is hoping to be able to catch the talks online via Blueroom Stream so he doesn’t have to leave the Florida golf course while still getting paid to “work” in Illinois. - Perrid - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:30 am: “Only people on this blog would argue that decision making in back rooms is a good thing” You’ve never heard of haggling, have you? Or changing your mind, or rough drafts? It’s much, much harder for pols to give ground after they’ve made a public statement supporting (or not supporting) a particular approach. That’s just off the top of my head. Do better. - Been There - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:34 am: –In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks.– And they could also decide to lower those first. Probably not the smartest political move but possible. - Honeybear - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:34 am: Bite me Not it Only someone malignantly Calloused to their Privilege would think that only a certain group “livelihoods depend on taxes and more taxes” All of us rely on good governance and the redistribution of taxed revenues for the common good of Illinoisans Roads, Water systems, Community care, economic development, so many things rely on tax revenue. Only the privileged don’t understand that. thus they are callous to the point of being a sociopath like Rauner - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:36 am: –Only people on this blog would ridicule someone who complains about people on this blog being against openness and transparency when it comes to raising taxes.– I’m guessing that’s what you hope for. Exercise your victim jones, tickle your grievances. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:59 am: There seem to be two opposite arguments against the fair tax. One is that after a graduated tax, poor and middle income people will have their taxes raised. The graduated tax by itself doesn’t raise taxes, but Illinois’ need are so great that lawmakers, in a second step, will raise eveyone’s taxes. The second argument is that this is a type of class warfare and the fair tax is an attempt to get everyone to agree to a tax increase because only rich people will get their taxes raised. Both arguments can’t be true. - Earnest - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:01 am: >No reason to believe this amendment won’t propose a similar linkage in the rates to remove the temptation to hike taxes on the rich only. That would be a good argument for engaging in the process and making it bipartisan rather than going all in for defeating the amendment. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:21 am: –There should be an addition to the constitutional amendment that if the progressive tax comes to be that every new dollar generated go exclusively to the pension fund for the next 25 years.– Whoever wishes to promote that better take a seat at the table. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:55 am: Curious as to who the anti-progressive-tax advertiser is at the top of the blog. The links are to IPI material. Is it them? - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:03 pm: The problem with JB’s fair tax “solution” is it will only pay for more spending (we cannot afford) and we will continue to short the pension funds ($800 million dollars a year) while not reforming them. His “trust us most people will come out ahead” rings hollow if they understand he did not fix the problem and lawmakers will be back asking for more sooner than you think. - Chicago_Downstater - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:15 pm: @Not It The negative consequences Sunshine Laws have had on governance is something that a lot of Political Scientists have been looking into in recent years. This is hardly a discussion that you’d only find in this comment section. I won’t link to those academic articles as you may not have access, but if you do have access to a Jstore or Ebsco account I suggest looking it up. The research is really fascinating. The article I link to below is free to access and lays out the basic negative consequences of increased public scrutiny. I personally don’t agree with everything said, but it’s interesting. Like the article and the researchers I’ve read say, pointing out these negative consequences isn’t saying that increased openness in governance is bad. It only means there are trade-offs that need to be considered when opening up things such as this leadership meeting to public scrutiny. Do we really need more public posturing for the cameras, or do we need an honest discussion between those in power about a very contentious issue? I mean we did elect these individuals to represent us after all. You can of course weigh those pros and cons, and come to a conclusion yourself. http://www.governing.com/columns/smart-mgmt/col-dark-side-transparency-government.html - RNUG - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:15 pm: == Only people on this blog would argue that decision making in back rooms is a good thing == Soup doesn’t get made in the dining room; it gets chopped up and mixed up in the kitchen. - RNUG - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:19 pm: == 40 years of madigan’s leadership tells us that if a new pile of money shows up in revenues it will be spent on everything except what it should be. == Exactly what happened after the flat income tax was implemented. The initial rates had some padding in them to allow for new spending. There was so much new spending they started shorting the pension payments in the FY75 budget. Basically took them 2-3 budget years to blow all the new revenue. - SSL - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:22 pm: If people trust our elected officials, who got us into this fiscal mess in the first place, they’ll vote overwhelmingly in support of the progressive tax. Of course, if they feel that the public officials can’t be trusted to use new revenue in the best interests of the people of Illinois, they might not be so supportive. Now I’m not a betting man, but if I were, I know where I’d put my money on the trust issue. Opponents should feature Madigan and Cullerton in every commercial. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:25 pm: ===Opponents should feature Madigan and Cullerton in every commercial. === Why clutter it up with Cullerton? /s - don the legend - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:45 pm: ==Opponents should feature Madigan and Cullerton in every commercial.== Except for that Cullerton guy, I think that’s recently been tried. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:38 pm: Greg Baise started out walking Jim Thompson’s dog at the Kane County Fair. - RNUG - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:10 pm: == Greg Baise started out walking Jim Thompson’s dog at the Kane County Fair. == Only difference is the dogs he is trying to walk now can only bark … no bite left. - The Dude Abides - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:46 pm: I find it interesting that some progressive tax opponents on here as well as the paid anto progressive tax advertisement refer to progressive tax states on the East coast. I wonder why they don’t refer to progressive tax states in the Midwest, closer to home? The answer is that those states are doing well so that doesn’t fit the narrative of their argument. - Flyer - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:19 pm: If the past is any indicator, “serious “ discussions should begin May 30th. - Right Field - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:38 pm: == In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks. == Which is exactly why there needs to be a maximum multiplier like there is now between the personal and corporate rates. Failing that, I’m upping my investment in moving company stock. - Southsider - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:42 pm: Hey, LP….do cease and desist with your “pension reform” gripes. Unless YOU have a competent and sound solution that doesn’t violate the State constitution AND the US Constitution’s contracts clause, then I believe the ILSC has already rendered their opinion on this issue. We have to pay up, point blank. No other way around it. You know what to do if you don’t like what’s going on in Illinois. With all due respect. - NomChompsky - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:52 pm: It really is interesting watching this entire debate roll out. Widescale opposition in Illinois to an idea that was invented in the United States and implemented widely here and abroad at the beginning of the last century because…exceptionalism? Is there such a thing as Illinois Exceptionalism? - Stuntman Bob's Brother - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:04 pm: ==We have to pay up, point blank. No other way around it. You know what to do if you don’t like what’s going on in Illinois== From the old joke, “What do you mean “we”, Paleface?” - low level - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:57 pm: ==Greg should call Pate to see what he or Carter would have done with that suggestion.== AMEN. 100% And a good number of commentators here would do well to look up Pate Philip and Carter Hendon - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:30 pm: –And a good number of commentators here would do well to look up Pate Philip and Carter Hendon– You mean those guys Madigan controlled all those years? - Southsider - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:37 pm: ==From the old joke, “What do you mean “we”, Paleface?”== We, as in the denizens of Illinois. Taxpayers. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:44 pm: ===Taxpayers=== We’re all taxpayers. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:48 pm: ===And a good number of commentators here would do well to look up Pate Philip and Carter Hendon=== It would behoove a commenter or two if the read McKinney’s, Vock’s, and Rich Miller’s takes on the overall “blame game” Lots of names, including Madigan, and including a boat load of others. - low level - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:58 pm: ==People on this blog adore taxes. They love them. Their entire livelihoods depend on taxes and more taxes== That person in particular should see how much the Senate Republicans loved taxes in Pate’s era. Or those that graduated college in Thompson’s administration then went to work for the state for 30 years. That was something else for devotees of “smaller government” - Norseman - Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:13 pm: Low level, you need to learn how to spell the people you ask folks to look up. - low level - Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 11:54 am: ^. Noted Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.