It’s just a bill
Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Capitol News Illinois…
An amendment to a controversial bill to overhaul the state’s Firearm Owner’s Identification Act has a smaller increase in the cost of applications and card renewals but remains firm on proposed fingerprint requirements.
Under the most recent proposal, both new applications for FOID cards and five-year card renewals would cost $20. That price was lowered from the $50 proposed fees in a previous amendment. The current cost for FOID applications and card renewals is $10.
The new amendment also places a cap of $30 on the price vendors can charge to carry out FOID fingerprinting, something that is not now required but would be if the legislation is passed. […]
Todd Vandermyde, on behalf of the Federal Firearms Licensees of Illinois, opposed the bill’s price cap on fingerprinting. He said the average cost for fingerprinting on concealed carry licenses is $65 — more than double the proposed fee for FOID cards — but that fee is still too low for private vendors to continue offering the fingerprinting services.
Vandermyde said another problem with the bill is that it will be difficult, especially for those living in rural areas, to travel to one of the 109 locations approved for fingerprinting by the Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation.
Opponents are threatening a legal challenge should this become law.
* Meanwhile…
The Illinois Secretary of State can suspend your driver’s license over 10 unpaid parking tickets or five unpaid speeding tickets, but lawmakers at the Illinois Capitol are looking to change that.
They want to stop license suspensions over unpaid tickets and fines. State Rep. Carol Ammons, D-Urbana, is driving the plan in the House.
“This legislation is critical legislation that is in line with the national movement to end the practice of suspending driver’s licenses for unpaid fees,” Ammons told reporters at a news conference Tuesday. “In essence, we want to stop the practice of saddling poor people with debt.”
Ammons said it’s easy for a $75 ticket to grow to thousands of dollars.
* Related…
* Illinois rank-and-file lawmakers express frustration over passage of major bills during holiday rush: House Democrats spokesman Steve Brown said the complaints lacked merit. He said the schedule had been out for six months and that “the whining is increasingly lame.”
* Measure to exempt college athletics employees from severance pay caps heads to governor: The existing law ends severance for executives fired for misconduct and limits severance packages to 20 weeks’ salary for others. The pending proposal would exempt from that provision any college athletic department employees who are paid through non-state-appropriated funds.
* Editorial: Governor, sign these good government bills
- NoGifts - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:24 pm:
can’t they make the fingerprinting a new service at the illinois secretary of state?
- NoGifts - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:24 pm:
or go to your local police department?
- DuPage Saint - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:26 pm:
I don’t have much of problem stopping license suspension for parking my and speeding tickets. But define fine. Fine for what? I think you can lose license and business license for unpaid child support. Would that stop? What about DUI. Don’t pay fine still qualify fo get license back? Maybe intercept any tax refund
- Grandpa2 - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:29 pm:
I don’t mind the fingerprint requirement because mine are already in government systems. But, are new fingerprints required every five years? That seems expensive and redundant. And speaking of redundancy, the State already requires fingerprinting for many licensed professions. Why are new fingerprints required for someone that is already in a government fingerprint database?
- MakePoliticsCoolAgain - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:31 pm:
-can’t they make the fingerprinting a new service at the illinois secretary of state?-
I swear people in this state have no idea how many different responsibilities already fall under the purview of the SOS. Fingerprinting should not be added to the list. Increase the FOID card cost and hire more staff at ISP to conduct fingerprinting and backgrounds checks.
- Truthteller - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:38 pm:
Vandermyde said another problem with the bill is that it will be difficult, especially for those living in rural areas, to travel to one of the 109 locations approved for fingerprinting by the Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation.
Same problem women seeking to exercise their constitutional right to an abortion have when undue restrictions are placed on abortion facilities.
Hope Vandermyde would agree to oppose any such restrictions.
- statehoss - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:44 pm:
I think it would be better to say your license can’t be suspended unless you have 10 tickets where you’ve not even paid the base fee.
Take the extra non-payment penalties off the table. But 10 tickets is a lot. That’s scofflaw, not whoops.
And/or make the threshold number of tickets higher. But the goal should not be to abolish consequences for breaking driving and parking laws.
- Occasional Quipper - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:46 pm:
I agree with not revoking licenses for parking tickets, but if someone has 5 unpaid speeding tickets they probably should have their license revoked just to make the roads safer. The purpose of the fine is to discourage breaking the law. Is it regressive that it’s more difficult for poor people to pay fines? Absolutely not, because they always have the option to follow the law in the first place.
- Loony Liberal - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:47 pm:
The convenience argument is hogwash.
109 locations compares favorably to the number of car emissions testing locations.
- SW - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:48 pm:
The fingerprinting requirement is no doubt unconstitutional. We do not require fingerprinting to exercise any other constitutional right. CCW is different. The Supreme Court has not held the concealed carry outside the home is a constitutional right. Reminds me of the old poll tax cases that infringed on persons rights to vote. This is a good vehicle to have the whole FOID process thrown out.
- Mack - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 2:56 pm:
::to the number of car emissions testing locations.::
Irrelevant, that isn’t done outside of Chicago and maybe metro east.
- PJ - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:04 pm:
==Reminds me of the old poll tax cases that infringed on persons rights to vote. This is a good vehicle to have the whole FOID process thrown out.==
Lol. We got ourselves a top-notch legal expert in here.
- Smitty Irving - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:17 pm:
SW-
The State of Virginia requires private schools fingerprint employees working around children; the statute does not contain a religious school exemption. Apparently adults teaching bible study in religious schools (1st Amendment) must be fingerprinted. Do you think this is unconstitutional?
- JS Mill - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:20 pm:
Everyone working in an Illinois public school must be fingerprinted. This includes bus drivers who may work for a private contractor.
I have no problem getting finger printed when I renew my FOID.
- Mack - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:28 pm:
Working in a school is not a constitutional right, owning a gun is, regardless of how distasteful you may find it.
- PJ - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:33 pm:
==Working in a school is not a constitutional right, owning a gun is, regardless of how distasteful you may find it.==
One that’s always been limited and restricted, because the other things in the bill of rights can’t massacre a crowd of schoolchildren in the wrong hands. I really don’t see how a fingerprint is exponentially more burdensome than a FOID card, or a mandatory waiting period, or an age limit, or the wholesale banning of certain types of guns.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:35 pm:
And fingerprinting is giving some of you people the vapors why? If you don’t have a record what are you concerned about. Your opposition to this is akin to supporting people getting a FOID that shouldn’t.
- 17% Solution - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:40 pm:
You need fingerprints to get a drivers license in Georgia and Texas. And you need a driver’s license to vote in either of these states. So you need fingerprints to vote.
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:42 pm:
===And fingerprinting is giving some of you people the vapors why?===
They watch as their compatriots pass laws requiring women who seek abortions to get ultrasounds and seem perfectly OK with that kind of restriction on a fundamental right.
Ask them to make any accommodation to the violence that occurs with firearms in this country and you are assaulting their Constitutional rights.
All rights matter, but some more than others apparently.
- Mack - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:49 pm:
Seems Rich is playing favorites with the anti-gun crowd again.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 3:54 pm:
===Seems Rich is playing favorites===
If you’re referring to me deleting anonymous or very hostile comments, yes. lol
- statehoss - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 4:05 pm:
There is no state where you need a driver’s license to vote. Driver’s license or state ID, (or some other government IDs not widely held), yes.
Do you get fingerprinted to get a state ID in Georgia or Texas?
- Amalia - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 4:09 pm:
Truthteller, living up to the nickname.
- stix hix - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 4:18 pm:
Vandermyde feels driving to one of 109 locations for fingerprints is onerous?
Is driving to your hunting lease in Tennessee or Texas onerous?
As for the fingerprint requirement? I’m a school bus driver and a substitute teacher. I had to get fingerprinted separately for each, two different trips to the same location–The Regional Office of Education. How much sense does that make? And oh, had to pay twice too.
- Todd - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 4:37 pm:
There are a host of problems with he bill. In order to get a FOID you need a DL or State ID, and you need an ID to get printed, so now you will need to have provided 3 forms of ID to be eligible to buy a gun and pay a fee of $100 to do so so a poll tax is an accurate discription.
Then there is the issue of being able to get to one of the vendors. The bill would cap fees at $30 for the finger printing vendors. So how do you mandate the use of a private party for services then cap the fees they can charge? We believe this will lead to fewer places offering it making it harder to comply with.
47 — kinda funny how all I heard this after noon was how it can’t be made harder to exercise a certain right, but yet in the next breath they are fine with this bill. If they didn’t have double standards, they’d have no standards at all
I’ve been printed Seaver time, military, security clearances, arrests but non of those count to me its a right buying or owning a gun should be no harder than being able to vote.
- lakeside - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 4:39 pm:
==that it will be difficult, especially for those living in rural areas, to travel to one of the 109 locations approved for fingerprinting==
As truthteller and 47th noted upthread, this is hilarious as Missouri’s only abortion clinic may be forced to shut down this week. Watch out for the unnecessary pelvic exam, folks.
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 4:45 pm:
Thanks Todd. Would you be OK being forced to watch an ultrasound before you could buy a firearm?
- OurMagician - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 4:51 pm:
I would suggest making fingerprints a one time mandate since they don’t change and add the 22 State Police district offices as places you can get your prints done during certain hours in each location or by appointment.
- Todd - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 4:58 pm:
47 I liken that to mandatory training and I disagree with it on both ends
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 5:42 pm:
It is disingenuous to argue that the fees are too low to cover the cost of implementing the fingerprint program, and too high to be constitutional.
The Supreme Court has held it’s legal for states to restrict access to fire arms from people with mental illnesses, criminal records. The court can’t hold that permissible and prohibit the state from funding such a regimen.
Also, while I appreciate Todd’s civil rights appeal (however genuine), the 24th Amendment only struck down the poll tax as a precondition for voting, if he wants to prohibit poll taxes from being applied to the 2nd amendment, there is a process for that. As written, this fee hike is much more modest that the License plate fees backed by Operating Engineers Local 150 and legendary gun rights advocate Bill Dugan when George Tyan was Governor. The number of fingerprint locations seems much more plentiful than many other basic state services.
- Anyone Remember - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 5:51 pm:
Mack -
Teaching religion in a parochial school is exercising 1st Amendment rights, and, as noted above, in at least 1 state you have to be fingerprinted to do so.
- The Dude - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 6:00 pm:
If your that concerned just go there with superglue on fingers. If prints don’t work they will do a name search which takes longer but still completed.
- Todd - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 6:22 pm:
Yellow dog
Maybe you should look up Murdock v Pennsylvania and ezell talked about having to travel to effect a constitutional right
- Mason born - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 7:20 pm:
I don’t understand the capping fees on a private business while requiring everyone to go to an ISP office. If everyone is already therewhy not have ISP run the prints? Then you can charge the $30 fee for ISP. Pretty sure they know how to do it. Then applying in person makes sense. Otherwise in person is illogical.
I also agree that prints for renewal seems redundant. The State will keep the prints & they don’t change so what’s the point? Seems illogical.
- revvedup - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 7:28 pm:
The FOID card is no solution to illegal acts by criminals or the mentally ill, and it won’t stop crime, just as it hasn’t since it’s inception. The entire bill’s goal is to cause law-abiding gun owners more hurdles to firearm ownership through bureacracy and fees. There is already a White County case on its way to the ILSUPCT which held the FOID card fee is unconstitutional, because it requires payment to exercise a constitutional right, but the antigun hysterics could care less. As to comparing pre-employment fingerprinting to the proposed bill, you have no constitutional right to any of those jobs, so it’s an ‘apples to oranges’ comparison.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 7:43 pm:
Todd -
I can look at Missouri with one abortion provider for the entire state.
The core of Ezell is that firing range training was required for a permit but firing ranges were prohibited within the city.
If Illinois required fingerprinting but banned fingerprinting services within its borderes, I think you would have a point with Ezell.
Alas, you do not.
Your reading of Murdock…would make it illegal to impose a sales tax on guns. Or newspapers. Or broadcasting fees on t.v. stations. Or licensing fees on attorneys…..
Good luck?
- JS Mill - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 8:50 pm:
@Mack- you are showing your lack of knowledge. Because I agree with finger printing for a FOID to make sure criminals don’t get guns says nothing about my feeling or opinion about guns.
I am an avid hunter and CCL holder.
I don’t want criminals to have guns if we can help it. And rights, as the United States Supreme Court has determined time and time again, have limitations and limitations can be placed on them. This is established through many court decisions.
You should read more.
- Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 9:26 pm:
I think this is what many avid gun owners would consider as the slippery slope.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 10:26 pm:
How about we offset the price of the fingerprint and license with $100 gift certificate off your next firearm purchase from any licensed Illinois dealer?
- theCardinal - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 11:01 pm:
Most of the state (geograpically) does not have emissions testing. The 109 finger printing places will be overwhelmed by the millions of FOID card holders. Its a dumb idea that will not do anything to stop or reduce crime.
- TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, May 28, 19 @ 11:40 pm:
===
overwhelmed by millions of FOID card holders
===
There are 1.4M FOID card holders. Hardly ‘millions’ of them.
With 250 business days for a facility to be open, that breaks down to about 50 people per day per facility.
With a staff of only 5 people, that would be about one application per hour.
Lets be realistic and use rational estimates, instead of using hyperbole. It’s very unlikely anything would be overwhelmed by this proposal.
- Pacman - Wednesday, May 29, 19 @ 7:38 am:
The reason you have to be fingerprinted every time you renew your FOID is because you may have been convicted of a crime in the five years since you were originally printed. The FBI has a program called Rap Back, but it is an additional fee to use. Rap Back will report any new convictions to the original requester. ISP has a form of Rap Back but it only reports arrests and convictions in Illinois, not all 50 states like the FBI does. The list of fees is ISP’s Bureau of Identification website.
- PrairieDog - Wednesday, May 29, 19 @ 12:49 pm:
The existing FOID card act was declared unconstitutional by a White County circuit court judge in 2018. Granted it’s only a trial court case, and it’s being appealed by the Attorney General to the state Supreme Court, but I have to wonder why this seemingly news-worthy fact has gotten so little attention in Illinois news outlets.