Separatist roundup
Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 - Posted by Rich Miller
* WSIL TV…
The idea of southern Illinois separating from the city has been around for decades but in March, Jefferson County residents will be asked about it in the next election.
Randy Edwards, vice chairman of the Jefferson County Board, doesn’t like how Chicago guides the political agenda in Illinois.
“I feel like the people of southern Illinois aren’t being properly represented due to us being so outnumbered by Cook County. Their values are different than ours. We look at things differently than they do,” Edwards said. “I can’t see where Cook County values are what we need down here.”
The ballot question is only an advisory referendum, meaning a yes or no vote wouldn’t actually change anything.
* Meanwhile, let’s go back a few weeks…
The resolution, which could be dismissed as simple political maneuvering — plays big at home, but has scant chance of seeing daylight in the legislature — is also backed by several grassroots groups agitating for separation. Illinois Separation, founded by Collin Cliburn, of Athens, has 24,000 followers on Facebook, and growing. Cliburn is also holding events at venues around the state through August and September to capitalize on the cause’s momentum. […]
Across the state on the same Saturday in July, Illinois Separation’s Cliburn is meeting with another group of like-minded individuals. He is planning a run for state Senate based on the separation platform, and is meeting with other people interested in getting separation-minded candidates to run for office.
* Bernie followed up…
I reached out to Cliburn, and it turns out his eye is on the 44th Senate District, now represented by Senate GOP Leader BILL BRADY of Bloomington. However, Brady is in the middle of a four-year term, so he won’t be up for re-election until 2022. By then, the 2020 Census will be done and new legislative maps will be drawn. So it can’t be said with certainty that Brady and Cliburn would even be in the same district for that race.
Hilarious.
That Tribune story was truly full of ridiculousness.
- Independent - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 11:26 am:
The notion that small town denizens have better values than large city dwellers is a stubborn racial dog whistle that sadly shows no signs of disappearing.
- Colin O'Scopy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 11:28 am:
If the separatists succeeded in the secession (ouch), what would they be called? West West Virginia? North Kentucky?
If times are lean there now, wait until the money spigot shuts off. No industry save for agriculture. Towns where the only jobs are prisons. It won’t be pretty. “But heck, we taught them arrogant city slickers a thing or two didn’t we?”
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 11:34 am:
===“I feel like the people of southern Illinois aren’t being properly represented due to us being so outnumbered by Cook County. Their values are different than ours. We look at things differently than they do,” Edwards said. “I can’t see where Cook County values are what we need down here.”===
Counties don’t vote.
Voters do.
- a drop in - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 11:35 am:
“That Tribune story was truly full of ridiculousness.”
Rich, I suggest you write a script that automatically prints that when featuring a Trib story. I will save a lot of time and keystrokes.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 11:38 am:
===I reached out to Cliburn, and it turns out his eye is on the 44th Senate District, now represented by Senate GOP Leader BILL BRADY of Bloomington. However, Brady is in the middle of a four-year term, so he won’t be up for re-election until 2022. By then, the 2020 Census will be done and new legislative maps will be drawn. So it can’t be said with certainty that Brady and Cliburn would even be in the same district for that race.===
“But.. but… the Facebook… and people… and stuff…”
If the ILGOP continues to allow this separatist thinking in the areas outside Cook and the Collars, the ILGOP will be no nowhere in… Cook and the Counties.
Marginal parties catering to the even more marginal shrink a party.
Leader Brady, in that imaginary race that you’ll never face, I’m with ya.
:)
- ChicagoVinny - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 11:49 am:
== If the separatists succeeded in the secession (ouch), what would they be called? West West Virginia? North Kentucky? ==
Kentuckowa
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 11:50 am:
Funny how the separatists can’t seem to get the concept that Cook County and Chicago aren’t interchangeable. They verbally blast Cook County or want a wall around Cook County but want only Chicago out of Illinois. And its not like they would like the way Cook County (sans Chicago), Lake County, DuPage County, Kane County, Will County or even Winnebago County votes either. It’s like having a conversation with someone who’s special.
- Practical Politics - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 11:51 am:
This all reminds me of the old debate of dividing Cook County into multiple smaller counties (some plans had as many as five separate counties replacing the current Cook County). The one point of commonality was that Chicago would stand alone and be separated from all of its suburbs. The plan went no place. The Cook County Board was not going to see only the suburban tax dollars go bye bye.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:03 pm:
- Da Big Bad Wolf -
You left out Kendall County. I’d like to have a voice where my county goes… and remember;
“Nothing Happens In Illinois Until Oswego Has Her Say”
It’s my hamlet’s motto. We won’t go gently into this phony, made up good night without our voices heard.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:08 pm:
Oswego Willy, How could I have forgotten Kendall County? Forgive me.
- Renzo - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:11 pm:
It’s all “small government” until you want your own state.
- Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:12 pm:
I’m all for Jefferson County having a louder voice. Let’s consolidate counties to make them bigger and stronger and reduce government. I’m sure they’ll support this cost-saving consolidation. Do we really need 102 counties?
- Jocko - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:12 pm:
Jefferson county gets more than $2 back for every dollar they send to Springfield. How about setting your sights toward becoming financially independent first?
- Steve - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:12 pm:
Counties are a creation of the state legislature so this is pretty much a non-story. It does show that some people are motivated enough (to make a statement) to not want to be in the same state as Cook County.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:14 pm:
“How could I have forgotten Kendall County?” In your defense, it is south of I-80 and therefore “Downstate.”
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:17 pm:
===In your defense, it is south of I-80 and therefore “Downstate.”===
South of I-80?
We talking about the same Kendall County?
I-88… sure…
- James McCann - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:18 pm:
Remember people like Senator Mark Kirk are responsible for the talk of separating from Chicago.
- Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:20 pm:
“By then, the 2020 Census will be done and new legislative maps will be drawn.”
I appreciate Bernie’s optimism
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:22 pm:
“We talking about the same Kendall County?” Oops, for some reason I got Kendall and Will mixed up. Must be all those “L”s. Or the shoes, not sure which.
- leonardj - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:22 pm:
just move the line to interstate 74 and be done with it
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:25 pm:
- Skeptic -
I’d blame the shoes. The right footwear makes a big difference in geographical interpretations.
:)
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:34 pm:
I’m surprised the separatists want to be a state. Why not be a territory like American Samoa or Guam? They wouldn’t have to pay federal taxes.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:48 pm:
=“I feel like the people of southern Illinois aren’t being properly represented due to us being so outnumbered by Cook County. =
Are they not getting to vote? Or does he simply not understand how democracy works?
Maybe they need more population?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:51 pm:
===How could I have forgotten Kendall County? Forgive me.===
No worries, - Da Big Bad Wolf -
My fear is that when we pretend all this is happening, Kendall has no seat in the new Chicago state and I find myself, and my beloved Kendall County behind the lines.
I’ll pretend to lose sleep on this, but you’re all good.
:)
- the Patriot - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 12:54 pm:
Who is fighting this?
If Southern Illinois wants out and Chicago is more than willing to point out they send more money and resources downstate then they get back, why resist?
Seems to me Chicago really doesn’t want down state, doesn’t care for its values, but just likes being able to tell them what do do.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:03 pm:
“Their values are different than ours. We look at things differently than they do”
So what? Fundamental disagreements have existed in a democracy since its inception. How many elections have we lost? That doesn’t mean states should break apart. Also, if the shoe was on the other foot, these Confederate types, would they not try to use government to impose their values on the rest of us?
They can also leave Illinois if they don’t like it here. Plenty of red states in America.
These people are guided by hatred of their neighbors, to want to cast them out of a state. And they supposedly have Christian values they want to impose on others or believe are violated by liberals and Democrats?
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:10 pm:
===Seems to me Chicago really doesn’t want down state===
Projection at work.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:11 pm:
==Who is fighting this?==
A better question is who wants this? Even the Shelbyville Daily Union called the separatist bill “goofy.”
- the Patriot - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:16 pm:
I don’t believe in separation as a legal option because well, I can read.
But because I can read, I also know that unprecedented access to Abortions, increase in substance abuse under the guise of legalization, high taxes, expansion of gambling and igoring more Americans being shot in one location since Vietnam is a society in rapid decline, not ascent.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:22 pm:
===“I can’t see where Cook County values are what we need down here.”===
What values are causing the problem.
I must’ve missed it with the dogs barking so loudly.
- Thomas Paine - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:22 pm:
“Patriot” -
Even if you took out Cook County, JB Pritzker still would have beat Bruce Rauner in the other 101 counties.
President Lincoln didn’t lead us through Civil War and lay down his life to reunify the country so that you could split Illinois asunder all for the privilege of waving the Confederate Flag.
You all point to West Virginia as precedent, without actually understanding the significance of it. West Virginia split from Virginia because the Virginians seceded over slavery. The Scotch-Irish of Appalachia, many of whose dependents now call Southern Illinois home, wanted no part of that secessionist, pro-slavery “stuff,” so they split off and fought heroically for the Union cause. Their legacy is tarnished by you.
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:23 pm:
@the Patriot
So there are more freedoms, the state can pay its bills and there are plenty of guns. What’s your beef?
- Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:27 pm:
It’s always the “Patriots” posting anonymously on the internet who post things like that.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:31 pm:
==more Americans being shot in one location since Vietnam is a society in rapid decline,==
So Patriot, you’re for gun control?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:32 pm:
===President Lincoln didn’t lead us through Civil War and lay down his life to reunify the country so that you could split Illinois asunder all for the privilege of waving the Confederate Flag.===
Restaurant Quality
Monolithic, angry, old is not America.
Read the Gettysburg Address. Read for comprehension.
Then tell me why Illinois needs to separate.
- A Jack - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:35 pm:
Cliburn is also a supporter of Kash Jackson which says an awful lot about Cliburn.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:36 pm:
“I also know that unprecedented access to Abortions”
If it ain’t your body, it’s none of your business.
“increase in substance abuse under the guise of legalization”
But let’s have unlimited access to guns, which are far more lethal. Let’s also keep having rampant racism in marijuana criminalization and highly disproportionate damage to POC, a murderous black market and substance abuse with less funds to treat it.
“high taxes”
The fair tax will cut taxes for lots of people.
“igoring more Americans being shot in one location since Vietnam is a society in rapid decline”
Like Vegas, Texas church, Dayton or El Paso. Let’s ignore the white mass shooter who kills far more people in one location than any Chicago shooting.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:40 pm:
“The right footwear makes a big difference in geographical interpretations.” Well, I had a pretty good comeback line, but I decided that if I had to explain it. . .
- Morningstar - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:42 pm:
I can agree with the the vice chair of the Jefferson County Board on one point: the people of southern Illinois aren’t being properly represented, but not for the reasons he cites. Loud and meaningless blather is easier than doing the hard work of factual reasoning and good communication. Voters deserve much better.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:46 pm:
It is projection. Chicago doesn’t hate downstate and does not want to separate it from the rest of the state. It’s more Confederate nonsense, and thankfully it has no chance of happening.
Liberals are the minority in many red states. We don’t know of any liberal movements to break apart those states.
- Frank Talks - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:47 pm:
The separatist movement keeps bringing up only separating Chicago and Cook County. Why do they think the collar counties would go with them? The collars receive less back tax wise than anyone else imagine the burden on McHenry, Lake, Dupage and Will if they had to flip the bill for the whole state?
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 1:52 pm:
==is a society in rapid decline, not ascent.==
Are you done having the vapors yet?
Grow up and stop whining.
- Flapdoodle - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 2:05 pm:
Michelle Flaherty @ 12:12 may be on to something — why not establish a minimum population requirement for counties, then consolidate those failing to meet it. It’ll save some money and may also make some people feel better by giving them an enlarged county. Not that it will change anything politically because counties don’t vote. The secessionists still haven’t figured that out yet, but maybe this could let them feel better about it all.
- Dysfunction Junction - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 2:06 pm:
=If Southern Illinois wants out and Chicago is more than willing… why resist? =
@the Patriot: If you were to walk down Michigan Avenue, or really, any neighborhood in the Windy City, I doubt you’d find many Chicagoans who would object to Southern Illinois going their own way. They’d likely be indifferent, as Southern Illinois has virtually no impact on Chicago.
However, as I read it, that’s not what the Eastern Bloc is proposing. They’re basically saying they want to kick out *only* Chicago/Cook County/Collars/whatever while preserving the hundred or so other counties as the “true” Illinois.
That’s not how any of this secession stuff works. As others here have said, anyone unhappy with the current Ilinois is free to pack up a U-Haul and leave anytime they want. Or exercise their right to vote and change things democratically. But not to decide that the primary financial underwriters of the commonwealth be kicked out.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 2:15 pm:
“a society in rapid decline, not ascent.” Ok then, what do you suggest we do about climate change?
- R A T - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 2:19 pm:
If it is 60% yes, who cares?
If it is 60% no, oh boy do we have a story.
I see a lack of intelligence in the decision to put this on the ballot when there is no upside but there is a strong downside for them.
- anon2 - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 2:51 pm:
Put the nonbinding question on the ballot, but not only in southeastern Illinois. Put it on the ballot in the Chicago area, asking if Southern Illinois should separate from the rest of the state.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 2:56 pm:
“but give rural counties proportionately more electors per capita than urban counties” Huh? That’s not how the electoral college works. The electoral votes each state has is proportional to the population. The issue with the electoral college is its all-or-nothing nature.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 2:57 pm:
===So why not apply the principle of affirmative action for rural areas to electing statewide officials? Have each county select electors who would elect the officials, but give rural counties proportionately more electors per capita than urban counties. If it works so well electing presidents…===
No.
However, I believe Mississippi has a clause for governor that the Mississippi Constitution requires the winning candidate to win a majority of the 122 House districts in order to capture the seat.
That’s fun.
I wonder why Mississippi has that clause?
- Harvest76 - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 3:30 pm:
“I can’t see where Cook County values are what we need down here.”
Their tax money is good, that can stay, but the value we politely decline.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 4:05 pm:
Dear Mr. Patriot: Curtis, Nebraska and Marne, Iowa are literally giving away land for free to anyone who wants it. Your “society in ascent” is only a tank of gas and a U-haul rental away. As if that wasn’t enough, you’d even get a whole bunch of republican politicians to fawn over. Think of it as “leaving Illinois to own the libs”
- Dysfunction Junction - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 4:35 pm:
=Your “society in ascent” is only a tank of gas and a U-haul rental away.=
LHM, that is *such* an excellent idea. I’ll go one better, with apologies in advance for the cross-post (https://capitolfax.com/2019/08/27/question-of-the-day-2931/).
In today’s “Question of the Day,” Rich asks for suggestions on how to spend the $7500 windfall from Confederate Railroad’s uncollected DQSF performance fees. How about we put that money toward free U-Haul rentals and gas fill-ups for unhappy EastBloc wags. One-way tickets to red-state paradise till the money’s gone.
- Alex Ander - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 4:40 pm:
Thank goodness this has been pretty much quarantined to north of I 64. If this whackadoodle concept spreads further south I may have to move up north or leave the state for the west. I vote mostly republican, but I’m also a realist and also realize how nutty the new breed of republicans have become.
What’s amazing is you can explain until you’re blue in the face how this would be a problem but they don’t believe you even if you have the hard research.
- Looking down the Road - Tuesday, Aug 27, 19 @ 5:29 pm:
If they are unhappy with Illinois now, they are going to be less happy in the future. The only solution is to move.
- AnonAurora - Wednesday, Aug 28, 19 @ 7:53 am:
There are always ways to make the burden and benefit equation more fair or localized but I don’t think these groups have even done the math….his specialty is “community organization and Grassroot movements” but it seems more like shameless glory to me.