111 Comments - Downstate Illinois - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:38 am: Rich, you wrote the headline like you’re surprised. This law will eliminate jobs and reduce hours for the very people its backers claim to want to help. We’ve seen it in Seattle and New York, restaurant jobs in particular. All this helps is the companies pushing automation. - Steve - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:40 am: Eventually, it will be illegal for someone to work for less than $15 an hour in Illinois. That business model will not work for many businesses and workers with little work experience. - A State Employee Guy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:40 am: Downstate: you’re forgetting option 2: the employers can just pay the minimum wage and continue on with business. - efudd - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:41 am: Downstate Illinois- I don’t care if the minimum wage is 1.00 and hour or 10. Companies will continue to push automation as long as it’s more than zero. Been to a Wal Mart lately? They were shoving auto checkout when Blago was in office. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:42 am: ===like you’re surprised=== Don’t assume. - Chris - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:42 am: “go from a five-mile border to a 50-mile border” 5 gallons of gas and 2 hours of time sounds like about $40 to me. Best be stocking up a lot for that to make economic sense. - Bertrum Cates - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:46 am: = Rich, you wrote the headline like you’re surprised. = That is projection, my friend. = “… said state Rep. Keith Sommer of Morton…” Sommer showing up for an event and taking a stand for something other than pumpkins is news. And that it was on this issue is also interesting. It has to be way down compared to what it was back in the day, but doesn’t his district have a fair number of labor households? - efudd - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:47 am: Ah, Bill Fleischli. Always there to carry the mantle for the persecuted smoker. Bill, what kind of medical insurance for all do you support to help pay for tobacco related illnesses? - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:48 am: “The rate will increase statewide to $9.25 on Jan. 1, $10 in 2020 and by a dollar each year to 2025.” That’s a shock to the system, a dollar a year raise. But when the incomes of the wealthiest increase a lot, compared with everyone else, while everyone is taxed at the same state income rate, it’s crickets. - Been There - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:50 am: ===“That 5 percent increase (universities) got will be very quickly eaten up by payroll cost,”=== Last I looked most university employees make more than minimum wage. If you take the roughly $29 million more that U of I is getting, for a dollar increase in min wage means they would have almost 14,000 employees who earn that little ($29,000,000 divided by 2080 work hours per year). Hard to believe there are that many. Even if they are talking about the entire increase of $6 per hour that would mean they have over 2,300 min wage employees. - Steve - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:50 am: The irony here is that we live in a time where the value of labor is declining compared to computers and robots (at the low paid end) yet the the government is increasing the minimum wage when it should be going down to stay competitive with automation ! - City Zen - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:51 am: Do we need prevailing minimum wage laws by county? Every tradesmen in Champaign County makes less than his counterpart in Cook County. - Reality Bites - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:51 am: I was in public sector for many years. Now, I am in private. A state employee guy.. I assure you, business will leave. Private business isn’t the government that has ‘fairytale’ money. They have to make a profit. Do some research. All the sweet deals amazon got? They have the right to shutter those locations at basically a whim and move. How’s that for an eyesore. It’s not just downstate. The collar county small businesses will be hit as hard. When you can do business at a better profit margin, you do. When the forecast is such that labor is spiking in the next few years, movement has begun. The way to stop it may have already passed. - Bemused - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:52 am: It will be interesting to see how many clever ways are found to get around the law. The overuse of listing employees as contract labor comes to mind. - Reality Bites - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:55 am: The other issue is the cost of living in macomb is drastically different in the city or collars. Broad brushes seldom don’t work, because they are broad brushes. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:55 am: Grandson, ever owned a business? And, you should be thankful for those that earn a million a year and send approximately $50,000 to the state coffers annually versus the person making 40 grand and sending about 2 thousand, maybe. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:55 am: ===when it should be going down=== lol Try running for office on that platform here. - Unpopular - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:56 am: The minimum wage hike was extremism of the liberal variety, which we like here in Illinois. There will be no nuance…”downstate” will take their medicine and like it. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:56 am: ===you should be thankful=== lol Try running for office on that platform here. - City Zen - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 10:59 am: ==Grandson, ever owned a business?== I need to wipe off my screen. - efudd - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:00 am: The difference in gas prices between Anna and Cape Girardeau, located 25 miles away, is roughly .30. If my truck is bone dry, I would save a little over 8 bucks buying in Cape. Am I driving 50 miles round trip for 8 bucks? - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:00 am: ===when it should be going down=== Why stop there? By your logic, we should have workers pay employers instead of the other way around. That would surely be far more competitive with robots. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:01 am: When Rauner abandoned the trades and labor with his assist on prevailing wage and collective bargaining, the politics of wages, organized labor or not, became an issue where Dems knew… … what, the GOP are gonna say people make too much money? A populist move here, the retort is a losing campaign platform plank. Beefing about it now, before campaign season is about as far as folks with their name on a ballot might wanna go. Imagine if the trades trusted the ILGOP “as a whole”. Don’t need to imagine that “as a whole” labor in Illinois isn’t a fan of Rauner’s GOP that still exists. - Steve - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:01 am: It’s probably unconstitutional , given the Illinois state constitution, to have a regional minimum wage. Equal protection of the laws is a core concept in the state constitution. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:08 am: According to some studies, including one of six cities, minimum wage hikes did not cause jobs losses but they boosted incomes of low-wage workers. https://tinyurl.com/y2w86gen - Honeybear - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:10 am: Oh the bleating of the privileged over the slow rise of minimum wage. What’s wrong poor poor privileged business owner? is providing a decent wage eating into your discretionary funds? No vaca this year? No new motor on the classic car? Oh goodness - Scamp640 - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:12 am: @ Unpopular. Raising the minimum wage to $15.00 is not some radical extremist idea. Check out the history of the minimum wage in real terms. If you did this, you would see that in real terms, the minimum wage was higher under Ronald Reagan than it is now. The minimum wage in 1968 was $11.55 when adjusted for inflation. That is over four dollars an hour higher than it is now. Here is the data in case you are interested in actual data: https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/business/us-minimum-wage-by-year/index.html - Reality Bites - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:12 am: Grandson- how do you explain the exodus from Illinois? Do you think forcing higher wages from a small business will help growth or lessen growth? Serious question. We’re doing more with less to maintain a profit margin. We moved a location from California to Texas. Why do you think that would be? Reality is what’s happening. People and business is leaving. We need them to stay. - Robert the 1st - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:14 am: =we should have workers pay employers instead of the other way around.= Rich usually tells people to “stop arguing like a child” when they draw out extremes. But that’s obviously one-sided here. - Skeptic - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:15 am: “They have to make a profit.” Yup, and they by passing costs on to the consumer like every business, big and small does. Minimum wage is just another cost to be passed along. But you know, they might profit from people having more money to spend too. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:17 am: Republicans and lobbyists are upset because poor people are getting a raise? Forgive me for not feeling sorry for them. At all. “Big companies drove Donald Trump’s tax cut law but refused to commit to any specific wage hikes for workers, despite repeated White House promises it would help employees, an investigation shows. The 2017 Tax and Jobs Act – the Trump administration’s one major piece of enacted legislation – did deliver the biggest corporate tax cut in US history, but ultimately workers benefited almost not at all.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/30/trump-tax-cut-law-investigation-worker-benefits - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:17 am: Don’t dare question the wisdom of Cook County Democrats to know it all about what is best for every corner of the state - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:19 am: ===when they draw out extremes=== Lowering the minimum wage to compete with robots was a pretty extreme argument. I was mocking that. Sorry you cannot perceive snark. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:21 am: Honeybear—I don’t own a classic car and actually I didn’t take a vacation in the past 12 months. We do provide $ to many local charities. I do work upwards of 50 hour weeks, have not taken one sick day in years and when we have experienced downturns in the economy, I was the last one paid. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:23 am: “I was in public sector for many years. Now, I am in private. A state employee guy.” Yeah, okay, concern troll. “We moved a location from California to Texas.” But here you are, commenting on Illinois politics. We don’t want a lower-income, anti-union red state model in Illinois, and we don’t need one. Check out states ranked by economic factors like median incomes, percent without health insurance, unionization rates, etc., and see why. Whoever wants to beat their heads against the wall trying to turn Illinois red but failing miserably, please continue. That’s what’s actually funny. - Scamp640 - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:25 am: @ Reality Bites. Did you know that in 2002, the Illinois Board of Higher Education (IBHE)estimated that 29.3% of Illinois college-bound Illinois HS students attended university out of state. By 2018, that percent had risen to 48.4%. This represents about 25,000 students leaving the state. An estimated 1/3 of the students never return to Illinois. It is important to keep businesses here to be sure. It is also important to keep young people in Illinois. They are our future. Two solutions: provide better funding to higher education and support a higher minimum wage. The data is here: https://www.ibhe.org/PressReleases/2019.03.12-IBHE-Outmigration-Numbers-for-Web.htm http://www.ibhe.org/DataPoints/IBHE-Data-Points-2019-1-Outmigration-Context-2019-final.htm - Steve - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:27 am: Some businesses might be able to pass on costs to their customers : some can’t. Some businesses might be able to operate with Illinois customers while moving out of state. One size doesn’t fit all businesses but the minimum wage increase forces itself on all businesses. - Steve - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:30 am: - Grandson of Man - When Illinois is losing population , while other surrounding states aren’t : the onus is on those who want to artificially raise costs to justify their actions. If I was Wisconsin and Indiana , I’d want Illinois to adopt a $25 an hour minimum wage. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:33 am: ===If I was Wisconsin and Indiana…=== … I’d wish I had Chicago and the suburbs. Who wants to be Wisconsin or Indiana? What’s next, Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas? - NoGifts - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:34 am: “The rate will increase statewide to $9.25 on Jan. 1, $10 in 2020 and by a dollar each year to 2025. […]” wait a minute….January 1 IS 2020. Is it going up twice in 2020? - Steve - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:36 am: OW I’m quite sure no one wants Chicago’s public pension problem. Especially , Wisconsin . - someonehastosayit - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:36 am: === how do you explain the exodus from Illinois? === When the governor of a state regularly speaks of how bad the state is and then dries up the funding of higher education, people (especially young people) conclude they should leave. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:37 am: Yes, NoGifts, it is going up 1/1/20 and 7/1/20 - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:41 am: ===I’m quite sure no one wants…=== … what Scott Walker brought to Wisconsin, and Walker first carved out Labor, unlike Rauner. It’s like folks ignore that the Dems, with all this hemming and hawing and Rauner warning of “last chances” completely smoked Raunerism and the parts Walker loves in Wisconsin too. “I’m quite sure no one wants…” … Illinois to have Wisconsin or Indiana polices, as Rauner ran on that and lost by the most embarrassing level for a Republican incumbent in 100 years. You’re speaking for a minority of voters. You’re not even a minority voter, lol - shocked - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:43 am: I am completely shocked by the hate against ambition and success exhibited by this post from Honeybear. “Oh the bleating of the privileged over the slow rise of minimum wage. What’s wrong poor poor privileged business owner? is providing a decent wage eating into your discretionary funds? No vaca this year? No new motor on the classic car? Oh goodness” Oh goodness is right. From a political analysis, this is nothing short of class warfare. I will tell you the truth, from first hand knowledge– The aging small business owner, that cannot afford healthcare on the exchange, that does not have the cash flow to pay higher wages and worries about the price elasticity of demand when prices are raised to cover the doubling of labor costs, is probably just closing up shop. No bank’s commercial underwriters are going to loan money to sell these places to the next generation with forced instability. #predictions - Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:43 am: ==All the sweet deals amazon got? They have the right to shutter those locations at basically a whim and move. How’s that for an eyesore. It’s not just downstate. The collar county small businesses will be hit as hard.== 1. Amazon raised it’s minimum wage for all its US employees to $15 a year ago. 2. It is just downstate. Employers have been paying $10 to $15 for entry level jobs in the Chicago metro area for the last five years. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:45 am: Well, if Rauner was the cause for many people and companies leaving Illinois, there should be a boon in population and new companies in the coming months and years. Guess we wait and see what happens. - Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:46 am: After Fleischli’s wife won half a million in local lottery game, I don’t really care to hear him whine about people making too much via the minimum wage. - Fixer - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:50 am: “…the minimum wage increase forces itself on all businesses”- As it should. I’m sorry that small businesses owners are going to take a hit on this initially, but this isn’t designed to hurt you guys. Cutting wages back further is not going to help you either. Folks that have less money are going to spend it where they can get the most for that money. Small businesses usually aren’t that. - Steve - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:50 am: OW This isn’t about voters . It ’s about the marginal productivity of labor which determines wages in the private sector and the fallout from that. The conversation then moved to how Illinois has overall competitive problems. Wisconsin doesn’t have the pension problem Illinois does… https://projects.jsonline.com/news/2016/9/26/wisconsins-fully-funded-pension-system-is-one-of-a-kind.html - someonehastosayit - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:55 am: === Guess we wait and see what happens === Yep. But big messes aren’t cleaned up overnight which is why it’s better to try and avoid making them. It appeared that Rauner’s mess making was intentional which is what made it so particularly awful. - SSL - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:55 am: Some businesses can and will raise prices. That happens already for a variety of reasons. Some will simply eat the cost if the business model supports doing so. Some will reduce staff. It’s all about the percentages people. I don’t know that this will be large enough to move the needle one way or the other by itself. I’m not as sure when you include it with all the other changes either already approved or proposed. Maybe those nasty rich people that Grandson despises so much will get fed up. It will be interesting to look at the data over the next few years. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:55 am: ===I’m quite sure no one wants…=== Hmm. ===This isn’t about voters.=== You vote, you are choosing not only a candidate but policy. Your dorm room ignorance that begins with people don’t want and ends with ignoring how voters vote is an embarrassing way to try to have your lone voice be stronger, even as you touted your own non-voting ===It ’s about the marginal productivity of labor which determines wages in the private sector and the fallout from that. The conversation then moved to how Illinois has overall competitive problems. Wisconsin doesn’t have the pension problem Illinois does…=== Elections have consequences. Next time, participate. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:58 am: Here’s the beauty of it all. Governors own. And JB will still be around in 2025. Can someone still around at that time let me know the results thru thoughts and prayers. - LakeCo - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 11:59 am: “Hate against ambition?” “Class warfare?” Ick. Is that what they call justifiable resentment of income inequality on Fox News? - Earnest - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:10 pm: I support the minimum wage increase. For a business owner, it’s a chance to raise prices and have your customers be mad at the state and not blame you. It could also put more money in your customers’ pockets to spend at your business. Nothing is one-size-fits-all, though. Sectors and geographic areas will experience the impact in different ways. The main concern that comes to my mind is for human service providers. They are funded by the state and therefore can’t raise their prices. There’s already a DSP staffing crisis and it’s just going to get worse. - Just Me 2 - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:12 pm: Not every business is Amazon. Most of them are small and struggle to pay all the bills and payroll at the end of the month. This reality is ignored by liberals and people like “Grandpn” and “State Employee.” The people who pass these laws have never run a small business and have no appreciation the impact their ideas have in reality. It’s like the people who think rent control will magically make it easier to find cheap housing when in reality it makes it harder. - Honeybear - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:14 pm: “From a political analysis, this is nothing short of class warfare.” uhh, it’s exactly class warfare. I put that out there on a hook and… zweeeeeeeeeeeeeee ( the sound of a fishing reel ) Pick a Name and Shocked swallowed it hook, line and sinker and ran with it. whoooodoggy did I land me some whoppin privileged Now let me get em in the boat. If paying a dollar more an hour per employee per year till 2025 is going to cut that much into your profit, then you’re just a poor business person profiting off of capturing, and holding low wage employees. Maybe you should go to business school instead of holding other people down. “We do provide $ to many local charities” Like the Sacklers - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:19 pm: Honey bear. You know better. Many small businesses struggle day to day for survival. Your selfishness needs to stop. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:21 pm: Honeybear, you are clearly an angry person venting. I just enrolled in bidness made easy 101 and I will try to do better in bidness. Signed, highly privileged in IL - NoGifts - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:22 pm: The alternative is Sam Brownback’s kansas adventure. I support trying something new. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:29 pm: I hear Ms. Arduin is out in Alaska. Maybe we should bring her back. That’ll make all the Rauner-thinking folks… happy? - City Zen - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:33 pm: ==I am completely shocked by the hate against ambition and success exhibited== For those who do not value risk, profit is unwarranted. - Lester Holt’s Mustache - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:54 pm: All I know is that all the people complaining about the minimum wage increase are the exact same people who told us repeatedly what a great idea electing Bruce Rauner was going to be. And look how that turned out. - Phenomynous - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 12:55 pm: Anyone ignoring the fact that small businesses, particularly those downstate, will be devastated by an 80% increase in payroll costs over five years isn’t spending any time in reality. Your local hardware store, restaurants, downtown store fronts are going to get nailed by this. Not every employer in the state is some fat cat CEO making millions on millions. Many employers scrape by and endure a lot of self-sacrifice because they actually care for their employees, many of whom they consider family. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:00 pm: Lester. That simply is not true. - Honeybear - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:03 pm: Nice projection BDD Yes, small businesses do struggle. and if their business model is dependent on low wage labor, and the squeezing of profit from their workforce in order to line pockets then I frankly hope they go under. If the choice is between Doing business within ones means or Exploiting workers for profit I have chosen as a small business owner myself in the past. to not hire a worker I couldn’t afford. I worked harder and longer hours myself. I took responsibility for my actions. I’m not angry Pick a Name. I’m enraged Four years of Rauner will do that. I’m also not venting. I am clearly attacking. - No Big Deal - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:05 pm: Not sure why everyone is so concerned. Renowned, successful small business owner, noted economist, and honorable State Rep. Will Guzzardi said that there would be no negative economic impacts on the State or on businesses. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:09 pm: Honey. Several years ago you responded to my refusal to shop at WalMart with a comment to the extent that was sometimes your only option. I hope that is in your past. Similarly shopping online using Amazon. Most small business owners model is based on survival. - Simple Simon - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:11 pm: ==Many small businesses struggle day to day for survival=== As does every hourly worker. Before taxes, a minimum wage worker will make $19K per year on Jan. 1, assuming they can find someone to pay them a full 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Median family income in Illinois is $62K. When you say you struggle every day, do you mean you fall in this range? It is not my purpose to say what your profit should be, but please understand why hourly employees are skeptical about claims of hardships from business owners, especially when they don’t need to reveal their income as they complain. Hopefully the point will be moot if the feds get on board with a minimum wage increase. Or would you prefer they establish a universal basic income instead? - Bertrum Cates - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:15 pm: = This isn’t about voters . It ’s about the marginal productivity of labor… = Looking more and more like JBT will be the last Republican to break 20 in the city. - JT - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:17 pm: Owning a small business isn’t a right. If you can’t make it work, you have no right to expect it to stay in operation. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:19 pm: Simple. My ties to union brotherhood have been previously stated. Regrettably, China, and their state subsidized dumping of widgets ultimately commandeered the marketplace. Consumers drive wages. Your shopping habits, along with Honeybears’, will establish wages. If you patronize small businesses that you know pay living wages, they will dominate the marketplace. But we know this isnt the case - Phenomynous - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:20 pm: -“As does every hourly worker. ”- Maybe those hourly workers want to come up with a business plan, take out a loan, jump through all of the hurdles, and put their livelihood on the line to help out the other hourly workers? It’s obviously so busy to own a business. You basically vacation 3/4 of the year in one of your several homes all at the expense of the exploited labor of others. We should all open businesses and become gazillionaires. - Seats - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:27 pm: To Honeybear- you are right if a business requires someone to pay minimum wage they aren’t exact a great business mind. The problem is, are there enough great business minds to fill all of the shops in small town USA? If you remove that business model there is a fear that they won’t be replaced which is even worse than the low paying jobs combined with government assistance option. Time will tell and it may prove to be great, but the change does leave me worried for small town shops in Southern Illinois, who may not have the business sense to combate with the changes in the same way that a Wal-Mart is capable, automation isn’t cheap to get started, it’s cheaper in the long run, but not something that small businesses will be able to combate the change with as much as the large businesses will likely be doing. Of all the many changes this is the one that leaves me most nervous although still have hope it could be of benefit. - Simple Simon - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:42 pm: ==We should all open businesses and become gazillionaires== Feel better? I did not say you didn’t deserve a profit, maybe even a big one. However, you are saying that minimum wage workers do not deserve $9.25/hr, ramping upward over the next 6 years. Think about that for a bit. - Anyone Remember - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:44 pm: Steve - Thank you for the link about Wisconsin. At the end it says ==To strengthen the system, then-Gov. Jim Doyle, a Democrat, and Republican lawmakers decided in 2003 to essentially borrow money from Wall Street at a lower interest rate and then put that money into investments expected to yield a higher return. It was a risky strategy, but one that has so far paid off.== Does that mean Tribune criticism of Filan doing the exact same thing in 2003 will cease? Or do Wisconsin and Illinois operate under different economic laws? - crazybleedingheart - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:54 pm: So the new Republican platform is to pay robots instead of people and then cry that the robots aren’t spending enough at failing small businesses who should be propped up with special government intervention, do I have that right? - Alex Ander - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 1:57 pm: […] “I’ve got an 800-employee factory in my district that’s now looking to potentially move out of state. That is a huge problem,” [Sen. Chapin Rose, R-Mahomet] said. […] So he admits that he has a factory in his district that pays minimum wage. No wonder Illinoisans are so poor away from the Chicago area. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:01 pm: The hypocrisy of the minimum wage argument makes me sick. 60% of Amazons business comes from urban millenials. Looks like that bunch is really busted up over the issue. - crazybleedingheart - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:02 pm: If 5 years is not enough time for you to figure out how to pay a full-time employee $30,000 maybe the market is trying to tell you something and you’re just not listening. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:11 pm: ==The hypocrisy of the minimum wage argument makes me sick. 60% of Amazons business comes from urban millennials.== Amazon has a lot of small businesses who use its platform to make money. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:22 pm: ==Looks like that bunch is really busted up over the issue.== You know what all urban millennials are thinking? - Honeybear - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:23 pm: Seats- yes agreed. I’ll stop swinging for a sec. I’m incredibly worried about the Southern Illinois which is my home. It’s hurting bad…and I think we have to do something about raising wages. Yes it’s a risk. I get that. I was trolling the privileged owner/investor class just now but the truth of it is that we may be too late already. The collapse of the rural to the urban areas may be irreversible. If I had time I’d love be involved in the Rural Economic Council. Not that I have the skills to help but…I don’t know. Regardless, if I have to choose a default position of higher wages and less businesses or more businesses and lower wages. It would be to choose higher wages. Rural folk already travel huge distances to work. The best jobs are the IDOC jobs, decent wages and benefits. Private sector long abandoned the rural areas. - Downstate Rube - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:25 pm: No one has mentioned what this will do to long term care facilities. Several in our area struggle to make payroll now. Will Medicaid payments be going up? - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:30 pm: ===No one has mentioned what this will do to long term care facilities. Several in our area struggle to make payroll now.=== What is the percentage of that workforce not making $15 or more? No snark, asking. - Streamwood Retiree - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:34 pm: = It ’s about the marginal productivity of labor which determines wages in the private sector = So where is the open outcry labor exchange? Does everyone belong to a union that bargains with an employer council for a uniform wage scale for every employee category? OK, I’ll support either of these. But the reality is that textbook free market solutions aren’t based in reality. There isn’t a free market for labor. There is the poor smuck that has training or talent for negotiation trying to bargain with an employer in the cat bird’s seat asking him to get on his knees and beg for a job that the employer is free to dispense or not. That’s not a free market, just like those shop keepers demanding minimum wage who are the only source of supply for 50 miles are not running a free market. Free markets need many buyers and sellers that have free choices. “Take what I give you or starve” is not a free choice. - Downstate Rube - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:42 pm: You’ve got dietary,laundry,janitors and activity departments. Unless you’re department head you’re under $15/hour. In the Decatur area CNA’s are under $15/hour. - Earnest - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:46 pm: >What is the percentage of that workforce not making $15 or more? https://www.theydeservemore.com/caregiver-crisis-in-illinois/ For DSPs, with an average wage of $10,49, significantly more than half. Disclaimer–it’s an advocacy site rather than the original sources, but I find it accurate. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:46 pm: Alex Ander, hopefully you understand that if the wage goes to $10, others making $10.25/$10.50 per hour will want $2 more an hour and others making $15-$18 will want more and the entire scale will go up the next 5 years. Good luck with all of this if and when a recession hits. A recession will really throw Illinois into a downward spiral. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:47 pm: Dabigbadwolf. Thinking. No. Spending. Yes. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:52 pm: ===hopefully you understand that if the wage goes to $10, others making $10.25/$10.50 per hour will want $2 more an hour and others making $15-$18 will want more and the entire scale will go up the next 5 years.=== Labor is a cost of doing business. Also, those folks making more money, if they spend that money, that helps the economy too. The minimum wage is just that. The market will dictate how the sliding scale will turn to a slippery slope. Are you saying folks will quit if they aren’t getting that sliding increase? That will bring greater competition to keep top employees, or is it just about devaluation of wages? - Downstate Rube - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 2:58 pm: You can’t just pay more when there’s nothing in the budget. Medicaid only pays so much. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 3:01 pm: ===You’ve got dietary,laundry,janitors and activity departments. Unless you’re department head you’re under $15/hour. In the Decatur area CNA’s are under $15/hour.=== I asked… ===What is the percentage of that workforce not making $15 or more?=== How much of that workforce is below $15? - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 3:08 pm: Ow. As an arms length investor in a couple homes. I just made a few calls. 18%-22% make below $15/hr. From an investment standpoint….i wish i never got involved. I hope,at best to break even. - Shirley Knott - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 3:16 pm: OW hit it– ==Labor is a cost of doing business. Exactly. What other cost of doing business has remained flat for nearly a decade? I hope those businesses paying $8.25/hr enjoyed it while it lasted. Speaking of which, if low wages are good for job creation, shouldn’t there have been a lot of growth while wages were held down? - Honeybear - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 3:22 pm: Nice BDD, worried about your investment. Yeah, that’s what’s important, your dividend. That’s the problem. Not affordable long term care or the communities need. What’s important is the profit from your “arms length investment” Why “arms length”? Maybe so you don’t have to know that that profit is made by keeping wages and benefits as low as possible, thereby keeping someone down. Thanks, you proved my point nicely - Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 3:40 pm: ==Thinking. No. Spending. Yes.== What part is hypocritical? - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 3:43 pm: Actually Honey, you cant be further from the truth. Our employees are represented by the USW. By my urging.profits vs care. Never been anyone denied needed services. Keep up with the unknowing talking points. It just shows your selfishness. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 4:00 pm: Dabigbadwolf .recent data shows 40% of Amazons sellers were listed as Chinese sellers. Not many $15/hr jobs there. Lace up your Nikes as you nibble on some Oreos. It washes away the taste of hypocrisy. - City Zen - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 4:08 pm: Profits are bad, until your pension is invested in a profitable company, then profit is good. Outsourcing is bad, until your pension is invested in outsourcing companies, then outsourcing is good. Big banks are bad, until your pension is invested in big banks, then big banks are good. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 4:12 pm: Makes me wonder how many Illinois pension funds are invested in Altria. The proud owner of JUUL. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 4:12 pm: Shirley, have you seen the unemployment numbers? - Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 4:19 pm: 40% of individual businesses are from China, Or 40% of items listed are from Chinese sellers? If anything will save the ma and pa brick and mortar store it will be the ability to sell their items all over the country, instead of just being limited to the people in their hometown, whether they use Amazon, Craigslist or some other platform. Many small retail places are already doing this. And I still don’t understand the millennials/hypocrisy thing. What makes them hypocrites? - Lester Holt’s Mustache - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 4:28 pm: ==Lester. That simply is not true.== Rose, Sommer and Fleischli supported pat quinn? That’ll be news to them - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 4:40 pm: Two other studies show that minimum wage hikes helped low-wage workers and didn’t cause job losses. One of the studies looked at over 100 minimum wage hikes over several decades. So it appears that there’s more fearmongering from right wingers, some or many of whom have done quite well in a state they say is terrible for business. https://tinyurl.com/yxaxfotn Maybe at the end of the year there should be an acting award for the phoniest of right wing criers. McHurricane is a frontrunner, with her capital bill meltdown. - Blue - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 8:39 pm: Grandson. Just curious. You don’t have to answer. When was the last time you employed a union employer to do a service for you. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Sep 17, 19 @ 9:30 pm: Grandson, ever think businesses don’t hire an extra worker or two because of labor costs. When one of our employees moved on we just split the work up, it ended up costing us way less than hiring another employee. Businesses try to stay lean, it’s not the government. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Sep 18, 19 @ 9:15 am: “Businesses try to stay lean, it’s not the government.’ This is part of the problem. Unless you’re in state government you have no idea and I mean no idea how badly every agency EVERY agency is understaffed and how much capacity and institutional knowledge we’ve lost. If you only knew what we’re trying to do with so little you’d be appalled I’m going to apologize Pick a name I went after you and others It’s reflexive after Rauner. Public and Private sectors must get on the same page We’ve got to pull together to pull Illinois out of the dive. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 18, 19 @ 9:19 am: To compare how governing operates and what it takes to “run a business” as the same… shows a real lacking of how both function properly. - Pick a Name - Wednesday, Sep 18, 19 @ 9:59 am: Thanks for the apology Honeybear, but I can take it. A lot of things get us riled up, but everything is cool. IIRC, you live in the Metro East in an agency where the work is difficult. Kudos to you. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.